shanerjedi

Put Captain Solo in the Cargo Hold said:

Midichlorians. One of the most controversial aspects of the PT. The one that seems to have been more easily fixed and it mostly involves removing dialogue. However what if there was a way to include the midichlorians as a conservative aspect of the Jedi order?

That is to say, instead of Qui-gon having faith in Anakin because of his midicount, Mace should demand a count (in my interpretations they are related to the force but having lots of them could very well mean nothing). Dubbing would be requiered for this, but I believe the Jedis being conservative is one of the better devices in that trilogy and needs reinforcement.

I thought about this: one could be a faction of jedi known as the bendu. They are the more mystical sect. Bendu adherents include Yoda and most of the jedi order. They adhere more to the unifying force.

The others are the Ashla, the older sect, focusing on the scientific, etc. Adherents include Qui-Gon and his master, Dooku. They adhere more to the living force.

The actions and dialogue of Qui-Gon even follow this path in the existing TPM.

Luke would thus be a blend of the two when he emerges in RotJ.

Bingowings said:

If Coruscant is the target why would the Emperor sit there?

In such a Scenario it would optimum sense to have the Emperor on Endor or on a ship far away from the battle.

Having him on a Death Star makes more sense than having him on Coruscant.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oops! My bad, you are clearly not running with that serving suggestion.

 

 Coruscant is not the target. The DS2 orbiting Endor is.

You still have the DS2 secretly operational that starts blowing ships up like the original cut. You just have Luke/Vader/Palpy observing it all from the Imperial Palace throne room on Coruscant.

The "whole Prequel enchilada"  sounds like an idea people have wished Lucas had done with the prequel scripts: wished he had written all three out before shooting a frame of film to cover the character and story arcs.

Sounds like an excellent idea to me.

The reason I tend to throw in radical ideas instead of just feasible and diable ones is that the line moves on what I feasbile or doable year to year.

I never would have thought something like Adywan's work could have been done. Ever.

Bingowings said:

As you know I'm all for pushing the boat out when it comes to radical ideas but short of making this a total remake how do you intend to replace every shot and reference to the Death Star with Coruscant?

And how would that even make sense?

Coruscant isn't a weapon, it's a planet.

You need the threat element to get the Rebels out of hiding.

If you had the Rebels just growing an enormous pair and marching right into the capital without them having gained some new advantage or have some sort of final threat dangling over them it screeches the question, why didn't they do it earlier?

You could have the Empire planning on blowing up Coruscant using a Death Star type plot device (possibly hidden on or built into the forest moon) hoping to blame the Rebels.

The Rebels could get wind of the plan and come to the rescue only to be caught in a trap.

You still wouldn't see much of Coruscant.

The easiest way to accomplish it would be to have the DS2 and Coruscant.

The idea is that Endor is the sanctuary moon of Coruscant. The Empire is now building another DS in the heart of the Empire to solidify its stranglehold on the galaxy.

It's not secretly building it at all. It's right in public.

Fear. Fear will keep the people in line.

The rebellion needs to destroy this station before its completed otherwise their covert support will flatline.

It's a huge gamble by the alliance. To go right into the heart of the empire to destroy the new station. But they don't have a choice. To sit back and wait until its finished would be an enormous setback the rebellion might never recover from.

So it's almost a dare by the Emperor. I dare you rebellion to come into my lair and try and destroy it.

But to not do so would mean certain defeat for the rebellion in time.

So it's almost a desperate gamble by the rebellion.

They're still beat up and licking their wounds from being hammered during ESB.

But they have no choice.

So the rebels "secretly" go to Endor, moon of Coruscant, to start their plan.

The film opens with Vader traveling to Coruscant to converse with the Emperor.

I would move all the Emperor's throne room scenes to Coruscant. So I would never have him leave that room. So the only view of Coruscant would be a few shots of Vader's shuttle flying overhead and landing to adding distant city lights out the Emperor's window.

Not a cityscape mind you because his tower would reach into the upper atmosphere. it would tower over all.

That would also keep the digital work to a minimum as it would be merely distant city lights.

Bingowings said:

Mithrandir said:

As long as I was reading your post Bingo, the same idea you posted came to mind!

You could make Coruscant be the target of the new DS, so we all would know what its destruction would imply, but with no need of including brand new scenes to the movie. The Rebels would be desperate to save the old republic's capital. 

However, you would still have to find a reason for the Empire to destroy its core. And what's more, the idea of a planet in danger of being blown up would make ROTJ even more similar to ANH (Yavin)

It might make the endgame structurally more like ANH (with the space battle) but it would shift the stakes from a small band of freedom fighters on the edge of nowhere under attack, to the Imperial capital openly rioting and the massed fleets of the Empire and the Alliance fighting out in space fighting their final battle with the threat of total defeat for either side in the balance.

Imagine the Capital is already having it's own insurrection and the Imperials want to sterilise it (and luring the Rebel's in would kill two birds with one superweapon).

Ady noticed that if you took the celebration scene on Coruscant from the SE and put a different soundtrack on it it could come across as a riot.

You have the crowds openly molesting a stormtrooper, you have statues of Palpatine being torn down.

If Coruscant was having it's own insurrection it would be an ideal situation for the Empire to set an example and flex it's muscles.

It would give make the story more of a conclusion.

The Empire in it's hubris (much like it's leader) hands the Rebels a chance for final victory but to achieve it they have to put themselves in the worst kind of peril.

God knows how it could be done though.

I actually kinda like that idea. I remember around the time of the prequels there was a rumor Lucas was going to finish once and for all the OT by connecting them more to the PT.

So you would have an insurrection on Coruscant led by Jar Jar while the rebels were attacking the DS2 and Endor, etc.

We've talked about this many times on here but many of the problems with RotJ have to do with where ESB left off and where this one picks up. Because of that, RotJ has less drama and feels forced.

The rebellion is stronger than ever before.

There's a rehash of several ideas and plot devices from the first two films.

I've tried to write stuff to replace the DS2 but nothing seems to fit into the "bigger and better" category except foregoing another big weapon altogether and just doing Coruscant and Endor with the rebel fleet fighting the imperial navy.....something completly different. But then what would be the surprise, the thing that turns the rebellion's dire straits up a notch towards the end?

A hidden death star! :p

But then we have another retread.

Maybe RotJ should just be the flat out war movie with a big land battle on Endor and a space battle above Coruscant at the end and forget it? No DS2 or anything.

Amazing costumes. This project really is something.

I was thinking about those stone heads on naboo the other day. I remember us talking about if they could be relevant to the story being told in TPM.

All of us here mentioned cloning, ancient slavers, ancestors of both naboo and gungan.

I really like the cloning angle.

Hey, what if they were Kaminoans? Maybe the Naboo/Gungans have this ancient cloning tech they "inherited" from this ancient alien race. Then in eppy 2 we meet this ancient race.

Necessary? No. But just throwing something out there. I'm just trying to find a way to tie the events of TPM into the subsequent two films more. And into the clone wars.

adywan said:

The text commentary may not be viable for ESB:R as there are so many things done the text would just flash by too quickly to read

You could always do a goof commentary using arrows that quickly point to an change and a little comic bubble saying "Change!". Or you could speed read it.

:D

The subtle stuff being added to this particular edit is terrific.

Those small things may not completely register as changes when you view the movie as a whole, but they fill in gaps in the presentation and the CONTINUITY. ;)

doubleofive said:

He did. Matches the close up of the probe rising.

CONTINUITY!

I love it.

Bingowings said:

shanerjedi said:

Wait a minute. Where in the saga does Kenobi first mention that he trained Anakin as a jedi?

ROTJ is the only place where Ben mentions training Anakin but seeing as ESB establishes that Vader is Anakin (or at least Luke's father) and in ANH Ben describes Vader as a former pupil of his that plot point has been there from the beginning (after the 1980 retcon).

well you could do a radical move and just make Anakin and Kenobi peers instead of teacher-student and then just have Kenobi with one failed apprentice, the real Vader who died in Eppy 3.

Another question: why does Anakin take the name Darth Vader? or were you planning on not naming pseudo-Vader that?

Im still amazed how bad the 04 colors are.

But you seemed to pick a nice balance with the palette.

Wait, did you insert a blast crater for that probe droid shot?

Oh ok. Yeah a part of me wants to try an edit where Maul/Grievous/Obi-Wan's previous failed apprentice are all the same person.

Of course another failed apprentice makes Kenobi look like a further dunce but to me it works better than the "different points of view" thing in RotJ.

Wait a minute. Where in the saga does Kenobi first mention that he trained Anakin as a jedi?

I tend to agree with you although I do hold out hope that my fanboy wishes will one day come true regarding the prequels. I mean adywan has done wonders with the OT edits. This would be the next big step for someone of his talent to take on.

Im just not sure if hiding Anakin's turn could be done without people going "wtf just happened?" And the existing prequels gave us enough of those moments. ;)

brash,  nice to see another "keep the surprise til ESB" member here. There are many of us. I know there are many PT problems, but this is the most difficult task perhaps in all of the prequel ideas.

Mainly it comes down to the payoff. Is there enough of a payoff for the audience at the end of the PT if you hide Anakin's fate?

Is it that we think Anakin died a tragic death? Could work.

It is all in how it would be presented.

edit: bingo, in your radical edit are you saying young Boba would become young Vader in TPM?

Speculating and moving the puzzle pieces is sometimes the funnest part of these edits.

I've long wanted to make Jango a mandalore somehow or include the mandalore's as part of TPM but haven't figured out a way with the available footage. There doesn't seem to be enough footage available.

Wow. That is so cool.

Now if it ever sees the light of day....

This blu-ray set really needs to be as all-inclusive as possible.

Heck just go all the way and shoot actors in mandalorian costumes and put them into TPM. It's what most of us thought we'd see anyway.

Or just get rid of the battle droids speaking.

Wait, when you say droids in the hangar, are you talking of the federation ship hangar?

Ive never liked that shot showing all the droids looking at the ship landing. I like an empty hangar too.

And TC-14 should be 3PO as the federation has binary load lifters right there in the hangar bay when the jedi hop out of the vent.

WhatsMyName said:

The first time i saw star wars was the SE in theaters. I later got the Original version of the films for my birthday and then that christmas i got the SE of the films.

I'm surprised that GL didn't think of everything that Ady has done. In a documentry or something i know he said that he didn't want to make everything look like a brand new shot, in other words not like the original versions of the film.

But listen to the fans. That's what Ady's doing and he's doing a hell of a job. :)

Yep

Ive never seen any confirmation that the Dagobah remote scenes were filmed. But I have watched actual footage of 3PO tearing the sign off the wampa holding room and then the snowtroopers walking inside. Ive also seen footage of the white healing mask being pulled of Luke's face.

But I don't know if the Dagobah remote scenes were ever filmed.

Yeah but film grain will need to be worked on to match the cleanliness of the video.

or maybe the cleanliness to match the film? :p

Yeah the lost 20 scene is certainly my favorite scene Ive never watched. Ive read it and it does give the audience great insight into his character and motivation.

But I do agree with you about just cutting and pasting him into TPM wouldn't be sufficient in establishing him as a character.

I got it...turn Dooku into Qui-Gon! A tougher task even, but hey you can't say his character isn't established in the first film. :D

Seriously though, any editor who wants to change the actual characterizations and motivations of them in the PT has their work cut out for them.

Adywan's PT edit will go far beyond anything he's currently doing. They will be about more than fx touchups and fixing inconsistencies.

brash_stryker said:

My instinct is to remove Gunray and other Neimodians entirely in order to paint a picture of Dooku as a good guy, but at the same time, the Jedi need a reason not to trust him, and associating with Gunray is certainly a reason after the whole Naboo thing.

The only gap in logic is why didn't Dooku go to the Jedi with his suspicions in the first place? Why start a war first before telling an imprisoned Obi Wan that the republic is in Sith control?

Didn't he mention to Obi-Wan in AOTC how the JC wouldn't believe him?

And if not, just take some dialogue from another film(if applicable) and tie it into there suggesting it.

You could certainly have Dooku in TPM at some point. Maybe at Qui-Gon's funeral? Maybe in the JC scenes?

Those are doable because there's little camera movement in the JC scenes.

I still like the Dooku as maverick jedi but not sith idea. He leaves the jedi order. He's a part of the lost 20. The lost 20 are all jedi who have left the order recently and mysteriously vanished.

Then a separatist movement pops up led by someone the republic people name Tyranus.

Kenobi later finds out Tyranus is really Dooku, who discovered the sith infiltrated the republic at the highest levels. Dooku believes the republic is now too corrupt. He wants to "start over". The other Lost 20 have joined Dooku.

So Kenobi realizes he has been fighting for the bad guys against the good guys all along.

But not yet. The republic arrives and blows the crap out of Geonosis. Dooku escapes, but not the other Lost 20.

Palpatine is upset that so many jedi have betrayed the republic. He orders Anakin to take over the JC, bring Dooku to justice, and the Jedi Order to be put under his direct control.

Iris Out....onto ROTS.

Bingowings said:

Trying to make sense of the Zam/Fett/Poisoned bugs thing.

What if Zam is hired by Gunray directly to kill Padme and use the droid, operated by remote to do it (we already know that the Feds use battle droids so no need for bugs).

It opens up a hole in the window, takes aim and Anakin rushes in just in time to deflect the shots.

When Kenobi jumps onto the droid she tries to smack him into buildings using the remote and then self destructs it.

Fett kills Zam under orders from Dooku who is trying to control Gunray's quest for revenge because she is one of the few Senators trying to stop the escalation of the war.

Perfect.

Man I wish there was enough footage out there to re-edit these films to make most of TPM and AOTC into the same movie. Most of the "kill Padme" stuff could've happened in TPM too by Sidious trying to secretly off her because she can galvanize support to defeat the Naboo occupation.

But anyway...that would take a whole new movie.

Prune face Palpy is actually a very good idea if you go the upfront route that it is Sidious pulling the strings. Or you could go the mysterious route and darken the features under the hood to leave it ambiguous.

Or maybe you don't have any communique with Palpious at all and just leave it to the Neimoidians and Maul during the first film?

Then maybe have Maul say something about a master during the end duel so the jedi know Maul is just the apprentice and the Mastermind is still out there?