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railerswim

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23-Nov-2015
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16-Dec-2018
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Post
#1259862
Topic
UHD Blu-ray Authoring - Technical Discussion
Time

Just a quick update, I did find some software last night that will at least a UHD disc/structure and can will help me parse through where my errors are. It also open source so I can download the source code and probably find out what tags are what in the source code, hopefully it makes it easier enough to where I can make my own new version of BDEdit that can edit a UHD disc.

Post
#1259706
Topic
UHD Blu-ray Authoring - Technical Discussion
Time

FAILED ATTEMPTS

Attempt 1:

Any Encoder: Create 1080P files
Adobe Encore: Create 1080p Blu-ray authored folder
Any Encoder: Prepare 4K files to replace 1080p streams
TSMuxer: Mux to m2ts
Hybrid: Take menu m2ts file from 1080p authored folder and resize to 3840x2160 and convert to HEVC
TSM2UHD: Run Bluray folder through TSM2UHD
ImgBurn: Create Disc Image
Windows: Mount Disc Image
PowerDVD (17 or newer): Play Disc

Result: No audio or video, unknown playlist essentially.

Notes: I think my main issue here is that I didn’t really modify the mpls files as well which are the playlist files.

Edit: I believe I see my missed logic here, So tsm2uhd will need to modify the clpi and mpls files. So I think what I need to do is mux each of my 4K HEVC files to their own blu-ray folders and I can probably get those to work when playing the disc image. The pain will be the menu. I’m contemplating how to properly get that remuxed. I think I may have to go ahead and remux it in its own structure, rename the clpi, and then run tsm2uhd and put it back in our main disc structure. After all of this I’ll open the disc up in BDEdit and copy over instructions from the HD version that I made in Adobe Encore earlier, this should help insure the ordering of files and what file is run on first play. However I’ll probably get to that tomorrow. Still have work in the morning, gotta pay the bills. I really wish I could just win the lottery and buy me a license for Scenarist or Kite UHD. Welp there’s to dreaming haha. I’m going to run a simple test to even see if my files are compliant, so a structure with no menus that I muxed then ran through tsm2uhd, I’ll see if they load up properly in PowerDVD, then probably going to bed.


Attempt 1.5:

So I tried muxing my files seperately and then combining then naming appropriately and then running through tsm2uhd. My playlist files (mpls) are way way screwed up. Otherwise the resolutions are correct. But I think because of the mpls issues, I’m getting a black screen with only audio because it at least knows what audio is supposed to play for some reason.


Attempt 2:

So I remuxed everything this time with x265 in FFMPEG and used the --uhd-bd flag and some example command for ffmpeg from doom9. Needless to say if I burn the files individually after running through tsmuxer and tsm2uhd, they play flawlessly on a 25 GB disc well above the bitrate threshold!

Bad news though, still no menus, and I can’t get it to run through sequential files as I have to modify the mpls files (playlist files). I can’t use the ones that point to the 1080p files or the content just won’t work. If you use the 4K mpls files, well it will only play the first video.

I also need to be able to retain the 1080p version index.bdmv and MovieObject.bdmv files as they contain certain instructions that we don’t want to leave out.

Unfortunately BDEdit cannot/will not let me modfify the clpi files to show resolutions above 1080p, and it won’t let me select HEVC for a codec. Meaning I’ll manually have to enter it. Which also means I need to figure out what that option is encoded as in Hexadecimal 😦

As far as the MPLS files go, looks like I’m going to have to see if there are any indicators of resolution or codec in that as well, which I don’t think it does at least. However I am missing information if I bring in the mpls files that tsm2uhd can pick up. Which this is where the going to the next video breaks.

So far have not been able to get into the menu.

Calling it a night, gonna have to do some serious research this weekend. Would be so much easier if we could figure out BDMV 300 objects and encoding right now, but there just really isn’t much on it. Damn you Hollywood lol!


Attempt 3:

Figured out some flags and stuff. Possibly part of my problem is the index.bdmv created from Adobe Encore is all sorts of screwed up. May need to actually test my 1080p disc lol.

Edit: Yup Encore is screwed up. Uninstalling and Reinstalling lol.


Attempt 4:

Spent most of the day trying to get this to work. Wasted on of my 50gb discs 😦 . Also manually edited the clpi, mpls, index.bdmv, and movieobject.bdmv files with no luck. Left the menu mpls/m2ts/clpi file alone. The main issue was that tsm2uhd just wouldn’t see the flags it needed to determine that it need to start editing the files.

So my doom9 account should be able to comment on that form now. I’ll ask jdobbs for assistance, although he’s probably really freaking busy.


This comment will be updated with failed attempts

Post
#1259463
Topic
UHD Blu-ray Authoring - Technical Discussion
Time

Note: This is a giant wall of text, so I will be adding more and more to this as we go. The post is unfinished as of right now. Stay frosty for updates!

My goal is to author a UHD Blu-ray for 4K77, 4K83 and whatever the ESB 4K transfer is. Mainly I’m focusing on 4K77 for now. This will also hopefully be useful to videographers and small studios who would like to author UHD BD’s without the $14K minimum entry fee.

Yes there are no proper UHD Blu-ray authoring tools available to consumers yet, probably never will be with Adobe not renewing licenses with the Blu-ray powers that be and ending support of Adobe Encore, as well as Hollywood probably trying to prevent this from ever happening. However there are alternatives to fighting (hehe).

  • DVDFab: UHD Creator - You can test it out, it’s freeware but it can only convert/process 10 minutes of video and it will also slap on a logo in the upper left corner of the video (unless you purchase it of course).
  • TSM2UHD - Created by the same guy who developed BD Rebuilder (I believe), this tool is used after mixing your streams with tsmuxer. This process is a little more complicated, but it’s free and it has potential to unlock the doors to decent UHD Blu-ray authoring for consumers.

If you haven’t kept up with this topic, here are some of the main issues that lie ahead.

  • UHD BD compliance - Bitrate is the main issue here, as well as BDXL discs (more on that later).
  • Custom Menus (in 4K)
  • Proper Metadata flagging in the mpls and clpi files - This is super important because we need to make sure we have the proper files listed and the proper resolutions/framerates.
  • Player compatibility - Certain UHD BD players throw fits with what you give it. The Xbox One S/X may be the pickiest of these.

Compliance

You can author UHD Blu-rays on 25GB Single Layer, 50GB Dual Layer, and 100GB Triple Layer discs. 66GB DL and 128GB Quad Layer discs are not available to consumers at this moment. The fun trick with 100GB discs is that technically they aren’t available either. What is available is 100GB TL BDXL discs, which are not the same as a UHD BD 100. The trick to making them work is what kind of sucks, you’ll be able to use two of the three layers to essentially author a ~66 GB disc, and it may have spotty compatibility, which makes this route a lot less worth it. Whitepaper here: https://www.blu-raydisc.info/docs/Spec_Info/AllBooksNovember2017.pdf

The roadblock here is that we have to be below certain bitrates in total so that our players can read the disc properly without any stuttering or playback issues. Now in the future this could be elevated as I have found an article from 2016 that explains how one authoring tool developer behind the Blu-ray Disc Association gate wrote their tool to send the higher bitrate content to the edge of the disc so that it would be guaranteed to have the fastest read speed possible. Article here: http://giant-interactive.com/uhd-blu-ray-capabilities-require-workflow-adjustments/

UHD BD 25’s aren’t really used. It is possible to author a UHD disc on 25 GB, but your bitrate will have to be low enough or your content short enough that it’s not really worth authoring a disc except for testing as you could easily make a ready to stream file with a 35 Mbit/s bitrate and have better quality. 25GB discs are cheap nowadays from reputable manufacturers, so I strictly do testing on 25 gb discs and transcode my content to really low bitrates haha.

Here are the bandwidth/bitrate limits we must abide by:

UHD 25GB - Follow HD Bitrate Guidelines (I think it’s 32 Mbit/s max bitrate)
UHD 50GB - 82 Mbit/s
UHD 66GB - 108 Mbit/s
UHD 100GB - 128 Mbit/s

  • Because the way tsm2uhd and DVDFab UHD Creator (not too sure with DVDFab) work we may have to abide by HD Blu-ray bitrate and frame rate constraints.

To prepare my copy of 4K77, I have transcoded it to fit a 50 GB disc but the video bitrate is an average 42 Mbit/s (original bitrate is ~93 Mbit/s which is on par with most 100 GB retail discs) to get it to approximately 41 GB so that I have room for menus, intros, audio, and room to spare just in case. Still better than the average streaming 4K file. Make sure none of your content exceeds the bitrates listed above, this includes spiking bitrates. It’s best to go for a two pass encode.

We must also make sure we are using HEVC (H.265/x265) for our codec. UHD will not work with H.264 content.

Now one thing that will probably knock out compliance but you shouldn’t worry about is 8-bit (SDR) content. The BDA requires that all content has HDR10 (10-bit) HDR color profiles. But since what were doing doesn’t legally require compliance, we can ignore this as it’s more of a let’s push HDR thing and not a this will break everything like what bitrates are.


Software

DVDFab UHD Creator

  • This probably easiest way, however no menus, and you MIGHT experience some issues. They’re pretty much the non-open source effort to figure out UHD BD authoring lol.
  1. Buy it
  2. Load up the content
  3. Configure output to appropriate disc size - Note, if not doing passthru mode, HDR is lost I believe.
  4. Export

TSM2UHD

  • Still working on my project to figure this out completely

BDEdit

  • Old but will help you at least parse the mpls and clpi files

BDInfo

  • Lighter than BDEdit but same reasons to use it

Hybrid

  • This can convert m2ts to m2ts which is important if we are to scale up the m2ts menu

A Hex Editor

  • We may end up having to manually find settings flags and modify them to get our desired output for m2ts and clpi files

BD Info

PowerDVD 17 or later

  • You can avoid making a ton of coasters if you test in proper blu-ray viewing software first.
  • It won’t weed out all of your bad attempts, but it will help you a lot.

Some Command Line Tools

  • eac3to
  • mkvextract
  • ffmpeg

BD Authoring Software

  • Adobe Encore CS6 (Comes with Adobe CC, you’ll have to select previous versions when installing), this can’t handle anything other than mpe2 & h264 for video and Dolby Digital and PCM for audio. Important to note it’s also limited to 5.1 surround sound. Which in our case is ok but 4K77 has DTS tracks.
  • Blu-Disc Studio Lite (Free) - From DVD Logic, they are BDA members, this is lite version that does a BDMV JAVA mix and works nicely once you figure it out. You can force it to take streams it doesn’t support but in the end it doesn’t compile them because when it passes stuff of to ffmpeg for transcoding it doesn’t realize that ffmpeg can handle HEVC lol.

Fun stuff I’ve wasted a Saturday trying

I have tried forcing Adobe Encore to transcode everything to HEVC at 2160p. I modified default transcoding templates, I modified the x264.dll to no avail, it either threw a fit or it didn’t open at all. Part of the problem is embedded in the source code which I haven’t been able to get into at all. Partly because Encore is locked down tight since it’s basically a super light version of scenarist as it’s base was licensed by Adobe from the developer of Scenarist.

Like I said above with Blu-Disc Studio, I have tried forcing it to use ffmpeg and the x265 toolset so all I have to do is try to force it to render at 2160p instead of 1080p. Still looking into this route. I have a feeling that I could just make sure it dumps whatever commands it throws to ffmpeg and have it interpret the commands to work for the x265 library instead. That could take a while though.


Important things to note (I guess lol)

Find this on the BDEdit thread on doom9:
“Hi outgoing, UHD has the header file “0300” instead of “0200” and the program does not recognize them, however the IGS menu can be worked.” (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1857404#post1857404)

Blu-ray Wikipedia Page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray)
Definitely has some good information to keep in mind.

Ultra HD Blu-ray Wikipedia Page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_HD_Blu-ray)
A little barebones but still has some needed info.

Here’s a good whitepaper on UHD Blu-ray specs (http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/Downloadablefile/BD-ROM_Part3_V3.0_WhitePaper_150724.pdf)


Failed Attempts will be posted below

Post in Progress


If you would like to help please feel free to do so. If you have found success in authoring a UHD Blu-ray with custom menus, please post below!

Post
#1259442
Topic
4K77 Artwork
Time

So an update on mine. I lost my original PSD files for this so I’m re-working the kit, unless I can find the files again lol. The menu videos shouldn’t take me long to rework, especially with Resolve 15 instead of stupid After Effects. Much easier to work with fusion in Resolve. I also have a 9700K i7 now so my rendering times are way faster as compared to my 6600K.

My disc art will probably end up being different. I’ll get rid of the HDR banner since TN1 have not done an HDR grade yet.

Also I’m messing around TSM2UHD, tsmuxer, and DVDFab UHD Creator on creating a UHD BD with menus (but I’ll post more on this in a separate thread).

To end, I know I’m one of those guys who starts something an rarely finishes it but I believe this project to be a hell of a lot easier than my GotG vol 2 4K IMAX edit, which I have worked on but I have put it on hold with the IMAX enhanced program happening so that it may get a proper release.

Post
#1256787
Topic
Menu creator/authoring software for DVD and Blu Ray
Time

Blu-disc studio lite is a nice free tool. A little difficult to use, but great once you get the hang of it. If you have an Adobe CC subscription you can use Encore. You’ll have to download it from the CC app and select the CS6 version of Premiere Pro.

You’ll also want to extract your audio and video streams from the MP4 container. However I don’t believe your MP4 will be that great in quality. You may want to go for a higher bitrate version lumped in an MKV container. MKV’s are much better to work with when it comes to authoring as you can extract the streams from them more easily.

You can easily convert your mp4 into an mkv using ffmpeg but again, bit rate is everything.

Post
#1228164
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

Pickle2503 said:

So any update on this project? The idea was awesome!

Sorry I’ve been off for a while. It’s difficult getting it to work since the post conversion to 3d distorts objects.

Also my new job is in full swing. I don’t even have the first scene done yet. It’s so long of a process lol. If a broadcast version comes out soon I may be able to speed this up.

Post
#1194840
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

So I have been playing around in Davinci Resolve 15 beta. It’s freaking awesome. However, I’m on the free version. The studio (pro) version costs $299. As I move into the project more and more, I may purchase it. It will allow for rendering Dolby Vision data, although I’m not sure if I’ll need a Dolby Vision license of some sort to deliver the file. Worst case scenario, I can do HDR10+ with that version.

But I’m packing up to move right now. I move a week from Saturday. And I’ll have to get all of my ID’s and Documents changed over for the new county I’m in. Plus my new job isn’t 9 to 5, and I’ll have to go back to my hometown every weekend for a couple weeks for other stuff.

HOPEFULLY, my first few weeks of my new job aren’t too demanding and I will be able to work on this.

Post
#1193983
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

ScruffyNerfHerder said:

Hi railerswim,
Are you on a Mac perchance? The reason I ask is that Apple’s Final Cut Pro X just had an update that supports wide color gamut and HDR editing all the way through, including delivery in HLG or Dolby Vision. If you’re interested, or know someone who has a Mac, there’s some info at: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208229 It’s funny because I just watched a video on Youtube this afternoon that covered all of this. Hope that helps! 😃

Jedit: Ah! I see that you figured it out while I was typing. 😛

railerswim said:

I’m going to play around with some files tonight and see truly what Resolve and Premiere will accept. But I also need to make sure that the HDR metadata isn’t tossed in a conversion. Adobe Media Encoder hates raw H.265 wrapped in a MP4 or MKV container. Same with Resolve. I want to avoid Handbrake if I can because it’s a hog. I like ShanaEncoder but there isn’t much flexibility over the options, plus it tosses out some of the metadata as well.

My goal is to get this all back into an H.265 MKV with at least 10-bit HDR

I’m on Windows. Btw some more info on Davinci Resolve 15 just got leaked. Blackmagic Fusion VFX will be embedded in Resolve now.

I could run a Hackintosh install but it just makes stuff unstable. Resolve is much better for color grading which is a major part of this project and Resolve is the number one color grading tool.

Post
#1193968
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

I have messed around with color grading from rec709 to rec2020. And I have it down now. Good quality.

Tip: On an HDR display don’t turn on HDR in Windows. The display will work better in NLE’s without it and you’ll also have the proper brightness. If you turn HDR on everything will be dim no matter what and the the brightness will be awful not to mention if connecting to a tv it will lag a little more.

I plan on setting my tv as my viewing monitor after I get moved into my new place. The home theater and my desk will be downstairs at my new place so it will be really nice for editing.

Post
#1192992
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

So I did play around a bit last night with SDR to HDR color grading. I don’t have my pc plugged into my tv but I deployed my tenders to my iPhone X. In order to properly view the footage, my iPhone has to be at max brightness, and it’s still a little dark. Which is weird cause I can watch Dolby Vision movies on iTunes and be at a third brightness for the colors to pop a little.

This sucks cause I don’t want to blow out the highlights.

I did find someone who has an HDR grading lut for rec709 monitors however he took the tools he made offline as he makes adjustments to them. I also tried other software to view the hdr footage on my PC and they are all just too dark, even with my UHD rips.

I’m going to the new city that I’m moving to tonight to look for apartments. Won’t be back till tomorrow evening. So I’ll have to work on this on Sunday. I might just take my pc out into my living room and plug it into the tv to really get my color grading workflow down.

Post
#1192624
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

^…^ said:

I don’t use Premiere, but AFAIK it should load lossless sources; so, it will be better to convert the UHD HEVC into lossless, instead h.264 (unless you want to use its lossless version, of course!)

That’s a gigantic project; hope you will success; curious to follow your work in progress, because I think we all, sooner or later, will be “forced” to make our project in UHD (and I can’t think about 8K! 😄 )

I’m going to play around with some files tonight and see truly what Resolve and Premiere will accept. But I also need to make sure that the HDR metadata isn’t tossed in a conversion. Adobe Media Encoder hates raw H.265 wrapped in a MP4 or MKV container. Same with Resolve. I want to avoid Handbrake if I can because it’s a hog. I like ShanaEncoder but there isn’t much flexibility over the options, plus it tosses out some of the metadata as well.

My goal is to get this all back into an H.265 MKV with at least 10-bit HDR

Post
#1192579
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

Chewielewis said:

I think the biggest challenge is round tripping UHD HDR content through and NLE and back out with metadata intact. I havent seen it done before. Personally id like to Regrain the T2 UHD release but cant find any info from someone whos done similar.

My biggest concern with the HDR metadata is getting into the NLE. Which is why I may just end up doing all of this in premier or hopefully the resolve 15 beta will allow me to import h.265 content. Cause as it stands I will have to convert the 4K source to h.264 to get it into Resolve and then I can only use that version of it to align.

As I go through this, I’m going to document my processes. So keep an eye on this thread for some of the info you’re looking for.

Post
#1192507
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

Funcha said:

This sounds like an extremely ambitious undertaking. I haven’t been keeping up with efforts to crack UHD encryption. That’s doable now?

It’s very doable. MakeMKV can take AACS 2.0 keys manually. I already have the UHD copy ripped. Authoring UHD discs at the consumer level on the other hand is still very tough.

Edit: Although you need a compatible UHD friendly drive.

Post
#1192466
Topic
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 - UHD IMAX Edit
Time

So what a shame it was when Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 was released on UHD BD. It did not contain the larger aspect ratios on the disc. Luckily the 3D version did. And lucky for my wallet, the Best Buy Steelbook came with both the UHD and 3D versions.

Sources

  • IMAX promotional stills (For reference and rotoscoping)
  • IMAX promotional videos (For reference and rotoscoping)
  • UHD Blu-ray
  • 3D Blu-ray

Here’s the plan/process that I will do…

  • Prep each source to be edited (also will rip the main menu video track from the UHD since it is in full screen and it is montaged clips, use only the stereo audio mix (for editing purposes only) I will preserve the Atmos track, get the MKV files into editable codecs/containers, possibly split it out scene by scene, get the 3D version into full top and bottom 3D)
  • Edit (gonna take a long long time)
  • Deliver file (Will be stuck to 10-bit)
  • Rip the UHD disc folder structure, and remux to m2ts so the edit can be deployed to the UHD disc maintaining menus and features. (This one might take a bit, I’ll have to test it by buying the right sized discs, and then test it still, hopefully it works on a 100GB BDXL)

Here’s the task list…

  • Load the 3D source in as the base video track
  • Place markers in the 3D source where aspect ratio changes
  • Place markers for each camera cut
  • Crop the Top/Bottom 3D source to the side that best matches the 4K source. (I will also need to take note of the parallax cropping, which is where a movie that is post-converted to 3D needs to remove some of the image to eliminate depth distortion and helps the faux footage gain some depth (both sides will have this)) I will have to horizontally crop the footage to conform it to 1.90:1. If the difference isn’t too much between the two sides on the edges, then I might be able to make a full (uncropped) 1.90:1 frame out of some of the shots
  • Line up the 4K source into the new frame formed from the 3D source.
  • Hide the 3D source at 2.39:1 footage and recenter 4K source if need be
  • Color match the 3D source to the 4K source
  • Sharpen 3D source if need be to attempt to get it in line with the pixel density of the 4K source

What I’ll be using…

  • A crap load of hard drive space lol
  • Davinci Resolve 14 (Free, 15 is being unveiled at NAB this weekend!): This will be used to crop the clips, and initial alignment will be done here.
  • Premiere Pro: This will be used to color grade (since I don’t have the $300 Resolve license), I will export a Premiere Pro XML of my Resolve project
  • After effects: If I need to rotoscope or anything like that I’ll probably do it in AE.

Issues that will probably happen…

  • Can’t deliver in Dolby Vision obviously
  • The pixel density of the 3D source might cause inconsistency when lining up with the 4K source
  • It’s gonna take a long time to render each scene
  • The only HDR display I have is a 55inch TV
  • SDR to HDR conversion and color grading will be a long process as well, have to make sure it’s right, and will have to be done on my TV in order to see if it looks right.
  • Premiere Pro sucks
  • All my encoding from Resolve will have to either be DNxHDR 444 or Premiere Pro XML because the free version of Resolve only does H.264 for MP4 containers. My encoding from Premiere can be a Main 10 10-bit H.265 file.
  • I’m moving to a new city this month and starting a new job
  • I still need to finish my Despecialized Edition boxset
  • My wife will inevitably want me to do shit other than work on this.
Post
#1181472
Topic
4K77 Artwork
Time

railerswim said:

So some good news on the UHD BD authoring front! DVDFab just released their UHD BD authoring tool. It can handled HDR10 and Dolby Vision. I’m going to give it a try. However, like other DVDFab authoring tools, it has no menu authoring tools.

It’s $40 for a license and it can author to BD-25’s, BD-50’s, and BD-100’s (BD-66’s are probably an anomaly to account for since they aren’t an even multiplier).

The free community sourced TS2UHD is making some progress but it’s still very pre-alpha at the moment only being successful with certain players and TV’s. It will get somewhere eventually I hope.

Ok just played around with the trial. It does have menu creation (not available in the trial mode) and it’s all templates so it’ll suck haha. Adobe, why do you stop updating encore…

Post
#1181462
Topic
4K77 Artwork
Time

So some good news on the UHD BD authoring front! DVDFab just released their UHD BD authoring tool. It can handled HDR10 and Dolby Vision. I’m going to give it a try. However, like other DVDFab authoring tools, it has no menu authoring tools.

It’s $40 for a license and it can author to BD-25’s, BD-50’s, and BD-100’s (BD-66’s are probably an anomaly to account for since they aren’t an even multiplier).

The free community sourced TS2UHD is making some progress but it’s still very pre-alpha at the moment only being successful with certain players and TV’s. It will get somewhere eventually I hope.