I know many are in favor of holding back Palps for as long as possible, which I heartily agree with. I have wondered if anyone has attempted to keep his face out of frame and/or in silhouette for his first encounter with Kylo? I mean I know we already know what he looks like, but not in this film. Just in keeping with the idea of a slower unveiling?
For those that like the lightsaber being tossed, but not the “record scratch” feel of Luke tossing it over his shoulder… On the bonus doc “Balance of the Force” there’s a more intense slow-motion alternate take where he tosses the saber in a different way:
password:fanedit
Has anyone tried having Luke toss the lightsaber as the music drops out, rather than their being a pause before he throws it? I feel like that is what makes it seem like it was meant to play for laughs, almost. I would just be surprised if anyone could make a new shot that feels seamless.
I think I will try changing the music since this is a good point. Turning it away from a joke into a serious moment is the most important thing cause him rejecting the saber as an idea is not bad to me. It was just the execution.
Looking at some of the deleted footage:
-The theatrical first Finn/Poe discussion (with Finn in the liquid-spewing suit) can now be replaced with the deleted Finn/Poe discussion.
-The shots of BB-8 with the AT-ST rescuing Finn and Rose can now be safely removed, since there is a deleted scene of Finn and Rose speaking in the escape shuttle. By adding that deleted scene, there’s now plenty of clarification that Finn and Rose escaped on a shuttle.
A few other ideas, if they haven’t been stated before:
Remove references to “Three Lessons” and have Rey already sitting on the stone when Luke is giving the first lesson. This can imply at least a little more training than what we see. This could probably work even if the third lesson is restored from the deleted scenes.
Another poster had already posted a good solution to the “Ben, no!” situation by combining elements. But if one wants to keep the rhythm of the three flashbacks: Show the first flashback as theatrical, but use the “saber crossing” version of “Ben, no!”… Second flashback stays as theatrical… Third flashback removes Luke’s thoughts of killing Kylo and igniting his saber, but the rest remains, thus it appears Luke is quickly igniting his saber merely to defend himself.
Before I saw TLJ, I enjoyed this upbeat TV spot, featuring Finn’s “May the force be with you.” It’s really nice out-of-context:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zj9qejqPNV4
In the finished film, we see Finn’s just saying it to get rid of Rose. Finn doesn’t move much in this shot, so it could be possible to move it to a different place in the film with a rotoscoped background if one would like to see Finn saying it more sincerely to someone.
BB-8’s whack-a-mole at the beginning could be altered to be less OTT. The first shot could have BB-8 lowering himself down and looking around for the problem. Second shot could have BB-8 locate the problem, probe the sparking area once, then digitally add some electrical tendrils to the probe so BB-8 gets cooked a little, to explain why he’s still a little fried when he raises back up. Same joke, just a little less silly with no whack-a-mole and no headbutt.
This would be tougher, but the early scene of Poe talking to Finn with the liquid spewing out of his suit is a bit silly. It would take some doing, but it may be possible to digitally remove the water streams, and perhaps the center audio channel could isolate out the streaming sounds.
darthrush said:
[Handman] You can cut pretty much all but one scene from Canto Bight, where DJ’s character is first introduced.Or you just have them leave for Canto Bight, and we see them next on the way back already with the codebreaker when Poe calls. No need to see anything of Canto Bight.
Is that what you guys are planning to do? Cut Canto Bight but keep the codebreaker? Are you going to have the scene where DJ is telling Finn about arms dealers or will you cut right to Snoke’s Star Destroyer?
I was thinking about keeping the initial visit to Canto Bight where they look around a bit, they see the real codebreaker, and then get arrested. No preaching about animal cruelty and bad rich people. I’m debating whether or not to cut the scene after DJ picks the lock and then they go right to the escape ship.
That’s a good proposition. Keeps Canto Bight, but to a strict minimum.
Suggestion: when they escape prison, cut straight to DJ’s ship. No chase, no shenenigans.
That’s the best idea, would there be any way to create a different reason they got in prison in the first place other than a parking violation? It feels comical in how such a frivolous action had such a large effect on the sequences Canto Bight
An editor could possibly do the old trick that was done on some of the PT edits: Scramble the alien’s lines and add subtitles. But… what could the new lines be?
SilverWook said:
We're getting mixed signals to say the least...
Don't worry! PM me if you have questions.
Ronster said:
Maclanachu said:
Bingowings said:
It's a shame that this guy doesn't seem to be one of us as yet.
If he could be turned, he could become a powerful asset...
I think this guy should team up with the Third Stage team and release a new version.
I thoroughly enjoyed the third stage edition now for some enhancement???
I'm glad people are still liking the Third Stage Edition. But have you seen spicediver's "Alternative Edition Redux"? It's really outstanding!
The Chopper Rescue with extra footage is now at CapedWonder.com (note that the sound is temporary and the video is reduced in quality):
Webisode 3:
Metal_Machine_Messiah said:Until then, Phineas: thank you, again. Pass the thanks on to all who helped you in this endeavor.
'Maud'dib!'
-Nathan
Thanks, Nathan! I think I have something in my eye...
I'm sure some people don't like it, like Dark_Jedi, who has a weird vendetta against us for no reason whatsoever.
We're hoping to do a 2.0 eventually, using the better HD print for the theatrical footage, a better and more thorough restoration of the deleted scenes, a few tweaks and corrections (more blue eyes filled in). Restoring the TV cut of Superman: The Movie is eating a lot of time. It might be worth waiting, though, because perhaps by then they'll put the DUNE Extended Edition on Blu-ray, then there can be a full HD version.
Thanks again!
Jay
Thank you so much for your comments and a very thorough review, Zenslinger!
Now onto your questions:
When Mohaim is speaking to Jessica about the gom jabbar test, but before they enter Paul's room, at the very end of the scene, she says, "He is here." Referring, I assume, to Paul. I didn't rewatch the Theatrical Cut to prepare to make this post, but I don't remember this line from it. Why keep this? The line seems to have no purpose; it's obvious Paul is nearby.
The real reason that line exists in the first place is because the Mohiam scene was supposed to take place right before The Box scene. But it was switched to an earlier location. It makes a lot more sense in the original context, since Paul is approaching the door on foot.
I kept the order of scenes the same as the theatrical cut, because I didn't want to lose the beautiful dissolve from Jessica. The reason I didn't trim the extra line was because in terms of rythm, it gave the scene a better sense of closure, and one could also infer that Mohiam could sense Paul now because his dreaming was becoming more intense.
The scene, also in the Theatrical Cut, in which the Atreides soldiers intercept Harkonnen communications ("Battle language!") seems misplaced in your cut. It comes before the spice mining inspection and does not add, as it does in the TC, to the tension about the impending Harkonnen sneak attack.
The main reasons I kept this line was because it was a Theatrical scene (which I wanted to retain as much as possible), and because in the new context it can be inferred that it had to do with the Harkonnens intercepting the Carryall.
Another small scene that's in the TC, but is in a different spot here, is that of Yueh kneeling and crying. Here it comes after Yueh has sprung the trap, and has already been captured by the Harkonnens, but I don't think his hands are bound. In the TC it seems to be that he's crying about what he's going to do, but in Third Stage, it's because he's already done it. It doesn't seem to make sense, however, that he could get away from the Harkonnens long enough to have this moment alone.
This was included mostly to retain more Theatrical footage. It's difficult to determine exactly where this scene was supposed to be, because it's shifted to different locations in different scripts. So I decided to keep it where it was in the Theatrical version. The main problem with the Yueh subplot in the film is that a crucial bit of information is missing that isn't in any cut: Yueh believes his wife is being held hostage. Jessica's internal monologue of "They must have killed her," which was probably added for clarification (ironically), kind of muddies that implication. Since Yueh was under their control due to his wife, he probably could come and go as he pleased. But when he was fetched by Feyd, and later by the Baron, the Sardukar were probably ordered to keep him restrained while in the room with them. In that context I think the scene works where it is.
The scene between Jessica and the Shadout Mapes about the crysknife, for example, just doesn't play that well. From a fan's perspective, I'm glad to see it, but it would be a little difficult for someone who hadn't read the book several times to understand what's going on with the need for the crysknife to draw blood. Linda Hunt just doesn't make her lines completely clear.
Yes, there was supposed to be more internal monologue from Jessica. I'm paraphrasing here, but basically: After Shadout asks Jessica if she knows the meaning of the crysknife, Jessica internally thinks: "Crysknife means 'Maker of Death.'" So then Jessica says aloud "It's a Maker..." and Shadout screams, interrupting her. Jessica then internally thinks: "'Maker' is the key word. Sandworms are also called 'Makers' by the Fremen. The crysknife must be made of a Sandworm's tooth. That was close." So she retains the facade of being correct by saying aloud "Did you think I wouldn't know the Maker?"
Without Jessica's internal monologue (the scene was probably cut before post-production dubbing, since Shadout's eyes were not colored), the scene is a bit confusing. It's a little less confusing than the shorter version in the Extended Edition, though, IMO, where Shadout just drops to the floor for no particular reason! lol
Again, I really appreciate your comments! You also can thank Fanfiltration, whose fullscreen edit inspired many moments in this edit.
Jay
dark_jedi said:
1 thing I noticed right off the bat is this,where you did the 5.1 upmix on the TV scenes you should of boosted the speech volume,it is waaaay lower than the normal scenes,very drastic,especially on a high end sound system(so for me,this is not good,but that is me,maybe noone else cares),and I want to look at the picture more,it does look a little soft,but I will look more into that tomorrow.
But hey,you did the work and that’s cool,but the sound level problem alone is enough to keep me on the original sound(not the 5.1),hopefully no level drops there,I have not checked that out yet,will tomorrow.
The 4:3 menu’s are pretty cool,why not 16:9 menu’s?
The extra scenes are dialogue only, so I used other dialogue-only scenes as a reference for sound levels. Dialogue is on the center channel only, where it’s supposed to be for 5.1 (I didn’t spread it on all the other channels like some people do). The center levels are the same. All that’s on the other channels is ambience.
Theatrical THX DVD is soft compared to the Divimax. That’s why I wish we’d get a Cundey-approved Blu-Ray.
I didn’t use a 16:9 menu because in my experience, encoding a DVD-R with a 4:3 motion menu tends to cause less problems with most standalone DVD players.
UPDATE: Gotten feedback from tons of people who have downloaded it from Demonoid and MiniNova, and not a single one of them have had a complaint about softness, nor do they have any audio problems on the 2.0 or the 5.1. And as far as “Custom DVD vs. Fan Edit” goes, there’s a ton of edits on FanEdit.org that have just one or two scenes stuck in them (like ADigitalMan’s “Superman: The Movie” and “The Wizard of Oz”) that are considered “Fan Edits” even though they don’t have the work put into them that this one does.
You’re just trying to create trouble, Dark Jedi. And I think we all know why.
dark_jedi wrote:
LOL like I don’t know what I am talking about
You’ve proven repeatedly that you don’t. And your trolling is exactly why you got banned from Fanedit.org. So nice try! But hey, since you’re a proven pederast it pretty much nullifies anything you say (sort of like the people that defend The Last Jedi).
The coloring of the official widescreen Extended Edition is a little different from the THX Theatrical. Not much, but a bit.
The bitrate for the movie is the same as the bitrate of the original DVD, that's why the size seems a little small. It's still larger than the original DVD because I encoded it to err on the "higher quality" side.
Some Halloween fans complained about aspect ratio differences, so I felt I should mention it. If you put the extra scenes from the official Extended Edition DVD directly into the theatrical DVD scenes, the letterbox bars aren't in exactly the same place. So I reconstructed the formatting of the letterbox bars from the ground up, so it all matches.
The 5.1 audio is not available on the official Extended Edition DVD, only the theatrical cut. So I added that option as a bonus for people who like that audio.
If you already have the Theatrical THX, that's what the theatrical scenes looks like. There's no loss in quality.
But yes, the main difference is the titles. Now when it cuts to Smith's Grove, it's not harsh like on the official Extended Edition. It's a gentler transition like on the NBC version.
Good idea! Watching a movie in between work also helps ease the brain.
I'm just glad we're finally at Metropolis. I love the Krypton/Smallville scenes, but it's great to see Reeve.
Okay, here's some snippets in a montage. This will be it for a while. Enjoy!
alex s said:LOL
Oh, I'm sure. You work on it and make progress then find a better way to do it down the line a ways and go back to a previous scenes to re-do what you did days ago the better way... it's unending. When do you let it go? I see now why they say films are made in the editing room.
LOL Exactly! Then you have to go back to the scenes that were perfectly fine, and alter them to match what you improved. Ugh!
Watching the same shots over and over again can mess with your head. This is one of my all-time favorite movies, but right now if I visit someone and see a chandalier in their house, I'm going to throw rocks at it.
alex s said:Looking good. I can't wait to see this cut because by the time I'm done w/ mine it'll be the last thing I want to watch after having stared at it endlessly and, I'm sure, cringing at what I could have done differently. LOL
Good lord, do we know how you feel!
skyjedi2005 said:
[snip]
Still even a faded 16mm dupe tv station print is better than a vhs tape recording of 1980s vintage.
Too bad Mitch does not have access to one.
We have an older version of the Bowers footage, it's not the cleaner version that Alex has.
They seem to have a stutter problem that can't be completely fixed. So we will only be using it for just a couple of shots, if all our main sources has fade-outs or logos.
Our main source for the KCOP material is a real gem. It has great color, virtually no noise, and runs smooth as silk. It's the frame-by-frame cleaning of dirt, scratches, and spots from the various sources that's the most time-consuming part.
Mitch promised pictures, but I thought it'd be nice to show some work-in-progress footage.
Below is some of our destruction footage (ignore the timecode):
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W76W45NP
Tomorrow I'll upload some snippets of other scenes in one file.
Enjoy!
Thanks for the post, Alex!
Edskizzorhands: Was that art from Capedwonder? Just checking because we don't want to use his art without permission. Thanks!
An update...
For those that wanted to see some footage, here's a respectful little trailer we made:
It's also on YouTube, but remember to set it to high quality, or it will be all pixellated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZk1lHWRagA
Enjoy!
Oldfan said:Does anybody know where on the supermancinema site this KCOP edit is being discussed? I can't seem to find anything mentioned involving Alex S working on a restored version. Also, how is this project coming? Looking forward to seeing all these lost scenes!
Hey Oldfan!
To get info and clips of Alex's KCOP project, you'll need to go here, but remember you'll need to become a forum member:
http://www.supermanii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2243
We're working on a couple of simultaneous projects right now.
Our KCOP project is going in a different direction than his, so they'll be apples and oranges. His version looks to be quite ambitious!
NeonBible said:How does it compare to the Reconstructed Workprint version?
Hey Neon! I like ADM's version, too! Check them both out and see!
Here's some examples of things that are unique to this edit:
1. Reconstructed Workprint (RW) has the longer version of the Irulan Prologue. In the Third Stage Edition (TSE), we didn't reintegrate it.
2. TSE digitally recolors the eyes blue.
3. TSE shows the Emporer removing his cloak.
4. Navigator scene: TSE has the theatrical music and ambient background sound. This is true for many more scenes throughout the movie.
5. RW has the Extended Cut music when the Navigator leaves and Mohiam reports back to the Emporer. TSE music is from a TV version so the placement of music is different.
6. TSE has the extended dialogue (reshuffled a bit) during the fighter robot scene.
7. RW has the extended shot of Duke Leto prepping himself in the scene where Paul first arrives to talk to him. TSE doesn't use this shot. RW also uses the Extended Cut music here. TSE uses the theatrical music (Leto's theme), but retains the extra dialogue.
8. RW uses the theatrical version of Leto sealing the Kanly tube. TSE features some of the footage of Leto prepping the note itself (without the TV narration).
9. When the Baron says "This is what I'll do to the Duke and his family." TSE uses a dissolve to transition to the next scene.
10. TSE does not show the Extended Cut shot of the Atredies ship before showing Leto, Jessica, and Paul walking to stand in front of it, because this shot shows them already standing there before they approach it!
11. RW uses some of the Romallo prologue narrative as a voiceover when the Fremen walk up and examine Jessica and Paul with binoculars. We simply show the Fremen examining them without any narration (no TV narration, either), as it was in the script.
12. After Gurney plays his baliset, TSE removes the sound of applause that was heard on the TV version, because the widescreen clearly shows that nobody is clapping! It was just dubbed in by the TV editors.
13. During the extra footage of Paul talking to Jessica about his waking dream, TSE removes the line of "I curse the day you awakened this within me." Thus, our version reads more like the 7th draft of the script. We removed this line because we felt this line takes away from his subsequent statement "Father, I promise someday the Sleeper will awaken."
14. TSE reintergrates the scene of Paul crying (aka "giving water to the dead").
15. TSE doesn't show the second TV take of Romallo saying the prophesy. This was just redundant television time filler.
16. The scene of the water being extracted from Jamis's corpse is placed after the shot of the Fremen carrying Jamis's body in TSE. All other versions (including the Extended Cut DVD) place this scene before it!
17. During the Jamis corpse water extraction scene, the TSE trims the embarrassing editing glitch where we see a Fremen reach up to a control switch twice.
18. When Paul sees the Fremen cache of "millions of decaliters" of water, TSE retains the theatrical dissolves. The TV version mangles these dissolves for no reason.
19. TSE restores some of the deleted dialogue of Rabban talking about Leit-Kynes before ripping up his Fremen suit.
20. As stated above, when the Baron enters to speak to the Emporer, TSE uses the theatrical closeup of the Emporer rather than the TV POV shot, as this spoils the surprise of the decapitated Rabban.
21. TSE modifies the shot of the Emporer's reaction when Thufir commits suicide by pulling out his own heartplug, because it's the same wincing reaction shot we see later when Paul kills Feyd.
There's tons more differences, but there's no need to spoil ALL the surprises. Check them both out!
Jay
hiphats said:There are a few things I wish to note...there were several scenes in the film that had music that had originally been intended fo the film but replaced in the theatrical version. Scenes in question: where Dr. Kynes takes Paul and co. on a tour and seeing one sandship eaten up by the worm, the death of Duke Leto, and where the Fremen takes Paul underground to see water. All these scenes with the score proper can be found in the Allen Smithee expanded version. Also the new version presents the theatrical version of the sequence where the Baron is brought before the Emperor, whereas the TV version presents a more comprehsive version where we see the gang from the Baron's point of view.
Hey Hiphats! Thanks for the props!
Just wanted to touch on the things you mentioned:
Hiphats is correct that the TV version has some of the original score in some places. Another example is the final knife fight between Paul and Feyd.
The reason we didn't use those bits was because although those pieces of music were scored with the intent to be used in the film, Lynch did not necessarily approve those bits of music to be used. We used the music that was seen in theaters, because Lynch put his name on those pieces. In some places, you can see why. The bit of music when Leto dies is much more powerful in the theatrical version. Same for the water scene.
We didn't use the TV Baron POV shot for two strong reasons: 1. We would have to lose the closeup of the Emporer that was used in the theatrical version, and we weren't going to do that! 2. The most important reason: In the theatrical cut, when the Baron looks down and sees the decapitated head of Rabban, it's a surprise to him, and to us, at the same time. That brief POV outtake that was used in the TV version spoils that surprise by showing the head too early. From a dramatic point of view, it was wise for the theatrical editors not to use that shot, IMO. We do, of course, retain all the extra dialogue in that scene, however.
Thanks again!
Hey guys!
Editor of The Third Stage Edition here.
Thanks a lot, Hiphats!
It does appear that the Dual-Layer format can cause problems on some players. Mitch tried it on a couple of players and it worked great, but had problems on some others.
Before I mailed the DVD's to Mitch, I tested them on two players and they worked fine.
Hiphats, if you have trouble ripping and recompressing to a single-layer, I'll construct a two-disc version. Keep me informed!
Thanks again!
Jay
Fantastic, track100!
They're awesome! Very well done!
I suspect Dark_Jedi will hate these edits, as he has a weird vendetta against us. Ah, well. lol
Jay