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patbuddha

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27-Mar-2006
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17-Jul-2020
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5

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Post
#1325365
Topic
Info: Star Wars The Lost Cut - Everything We Know About It...
Time

So I’m in the process of putting together my own video regarding the editing of Star Wars. My belief is that none of the deleted scenes that have been released come from the Jympson cut. Most of the analysis on what the Jympson cut is tends to focus on how scenes are ordered, what scenes were deleted, and little trims that were made to existing scenes.

If you look at the raw footage of Yoda’s death scene in Return of the Jedi it’s 31 minutes of alternate angles of the same 5 minute scene. For example there are 6 alternate angles of Mark Hamill saying, “Master Yoda, is Darth Vader my father,” a wide shot, a side profile close up, a front facing profile, an over the shoulder onto Yoda, a reverse over the shoulder onto Mark Hamill, a close up of Yoda.

https://youtu.be/Kz56q4t6fek

What this means is if you really wanted to you could cut a version of that line that used all 6 angles or just 5 or just 4 or just 2 or just 1. You could also reorder which of those angles you used where and for how long. Given that just that line lasts 5 seconds and the shortest amount of time you can hold a shot is 1/24th of a second, it means that there are over 42,000 ways you can cut just that line. Only a very small handful will be creatively effective from an audience standpoint.

What this means is that given that the second team started from scratch, building their version from the raw takes, the Jympson edit doesn’t so much contain different content. The content is more or less what was in the screenplay which dictated what the actors said and did. The difference is in the specific coverage used and the duration of each shot.

In other words it’s not possible to recreate the Jympson cut with anything close to reasonable precision, not without the raw footage itself and the Jympson cut to use as a guide which if you had it would negate needing the raw footage to begin with. But then having the raw footage would satisfy the nagging mystery that is at the heart of the interest in the lost cut.

The mystery evaporates once you understand the process of filmmaking. Jympson’s edit isn’t a different movie. It’s the same movie just cut differently. The issue is confused by the little trims that have come to light over the years (Han’s girlfriend, post TIE attack celebration, Tagge’s line about the Sith Lord). They cause fans to think that there’s an entirely different movie made up of entirely different conversations and stuff happening.

But it’s probably more in line with what this guy did with the raw takes of the Yoda death scene.

https://youtu.be/mAltoPhucto

You yourself could also take that same Yoda footage and come up with your own variations. And that’s ultimately what The Lost Cut is. Some guy’s decisions that are different from the decisions made by a different person whose decisions then became the official version.

Post
#196469
Topic
I actually prefer the DVDs and can't wait for more edits, seriously.
Time
But on the other hand a ghost is a completely supernatural thing that isn't based on logic or science. It's magic and as such the rules can be a bit amorphous. The Shaw ghost can be a valid representation of Anakin and so can the Hayden ghost. I don't want to insist that the Shaw ghost couldn't exist. I'm saying that it isn't the only valid way.

Because Obi-Wan and Yoda maintained their basic forms upon death doesn't mean that this an absolute rule. There is nothing that indicates that it is the only way their ghosts could have appeared. You would never assume that because all the dogs you've seen in your lifetime are cocker spaniels then all dogs must be cocker spaniels. Similarly you can't assume that all Force ghosts take on the appearance of what the Jedi looked like before he died because Yoda and Obi-Wan do.

One way I think it could have been done is to show all three ghosts as they appear in the original version. Cut to Luke looking at them. Cut back and all three are their younger selves.
Post
#196141
Topic
Cyclic redundancy error? Just work, damn it!
Time
There are two things that cause this error.
1. A bad burn
2. gunk or smudges on the business end of the disc.

If it is because of the first scenario, then you can kiss that data good-bye. It is virtually unretrievable. If it is because of the second, then there is hope. Usually all you have to do is wipe the disc to remove any obstacles that may be tripping the laser up. I usually wipe it down with 91% alcohol.

I've lost some good data because of the first scenario so I always use the data verification feature on the my DVD/CD writing software. If it comes back negative, I toss the disc and start over. If the software doesn't have a data verification feature, I copy everything from the newly burned disc back to the hard drive to test it.
Post
#196140
Topic
I actually prefer the DVDs and can't wait for more edits, seriously.
Time
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
You just contradicted yourself though. "The way it appears to a living Jedi is a combination of the way the Jedi chooses to see it and the way the dead Jedi chooses to present himself." Why would Luke see him that way if he'd never seen him that way before, and therefore had no idea that that's what Anakin looked like.

I agree. Bad choice of words to explain the concept. The ghost can present himself one way to the living Jedi and the living Jedi can see the ghost as he wants to see him. It all depends on an agreement of sorts between viewer and viewee. So in this instance, Anakin is presenting himself one way and Luke agrees, choosing to see him in the way that he wants to be presented. But assuming that's not quite right, to quote Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back, "Through the Force things you will see. The future. THE PAST. Other places. Old friends long gone." Luke then has a vision of a "city in the clouds" a place he's apparently never been which seems to describe the place that we are introduced to in the very next scene. Alternatively, the essence of his father is with him on Endor and the Force is allowing Luke to visualize him using an image from the past.

And if you really think about it, Hayden as the ghost makes more sense than the ghost as played by Shaw. The Anakin that Luke sees in the 1983 release never existed. Anakin has been scarred and disfigured for the last 20 years. The Shaw ghost is what Anakin might have looked like in the present day had he not been burned. But applying that same rule Shaw Anakin is an Anakin that either the ghost is choosing to present or Luke is choosing to see.

Post
#195864
Topic
I actually prefer the DVDs and can't wait for more edits, seriously.
Time
A Force ghost does not have a physical reality. The way it appears to a living Jedi is a combination of the way the Jedi chooses to see it and the way the dead Jedi chooses to present himself. Anakin appears to Luke as his 22 year old self, the way he appeared just before he got burned up. This is the way he wants to be seen by Luke. He has been moved by the concept of his own metaphorical death, that little zinger Luke hit him with just before they went to see the Emperor.