It sounds like you may have sorted things out already, but you might try the free multiAVCHD (forum) for making AVCHD discs or files. It supports PS3 and menus, although I usually use it for muxing mkv (x264/AC3) files into AVCHD formatted files to play from SD card.
Good find. Thanks.
I mentioned this in another thread, but Star Wars might also have another Dune connection. The director of the earlier, unmade Dune film project claims that his storyboards were passed around Hollywood in the 1970s and may have influenced the look of Star Wars. Some of the artists Moebius, Chris Foss, Giger and writer Dan O'Bannon on that film, went on to work on Alien and other science fiction movies.
Lynch shares a few memories of Lucasfilm back in the day from his distinctly non-fan point of view.
Why David Lynch Turned Down Return of the Jedi
(Sorry if this is a re-post.)
Fang Zei said:
Heh, totally forgot this was (originally) about to come out. Ridley Scott doing the intro had really piqued my interest. I didn't know Roger Christian worked on Alien until just now, none. Brian Johnson, one of Alien's sfx people, co-supervised the vfx of Empire with Richard Edlund (he brings it up in the dvd making-of).
There are also connections between the unfilmed Dune (developed by director Alejandro Jodorowsky), Star Wars and Alien...
The project was sabotaged in Hollywood. It was French and not American. Its message was not "enough Hollywood". There were intrigues, plundering. The story-board circulated among all the large studios. Later, the visual aspect of Star Wars resembled our style. To make Alien, they invited Moebius, Foss, Giger, O'Bannon, etc. The project announced to American the possibility of carrying out science fiction films to large spectacle and out of the scientific rigour of 2001: A Space Odyssey.
The Dune project changed our life. When it was over, O'Bannon entered a psychiatric hospital. Afterwards, he returned to the fight with rage and wrote twelve scripts which were refused. The thirteenth one was Alien.
I've been enjoying Legacy too. I tend to wait for all the issues of a story arc (or the trade paperback) before reading them. I see it more as more of an adventure serial rather than an epic story arc, so I don't have such high expectations.
If you can stand the prequel era setting, you might enjoy the first half of the Star Wars: Republic run before it gets into the Clone Wars. The Legacy writer and artist did some story arcs and you can see some similar elements in both series (Quinlan Vos, for example). The are some decent writers involved although the quality varies from arc to arc. The Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, Sharad Hett and A'Sharad Hett storylines are pretty good. Aayla Secura was created for the comics and made it into the prequels after George saw one of the covers with her.
bkev said:
Based on their trailer they appear to do HD commercial films. I'd bet it's expensive, though... actual website here.
The trailer looks good, but checking out their website, I noticed they also do floors:
http://www.harlanfloors.com/scanyourfilm/
Or maybe it's just ultra low budget shared web hosting.
I saw this on another site and I'm not in the area myself, but it may be worth a try if you are.
http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/0C0042FDE205994A
Go to the link and select up to 8 tickets in the "Cowboys Stadium Special" section, then enter the password "YODA" in the box. A small fee is tacked on, so 8 tickets are just over $14 total. This is a promotion sent out to Cowboys Season Ticket holders, but that doesn't seem to be a requirement to buy or use tickets.
Star Wars in Concert
Arlington, TX - Cowboys Stadium
Fri, Oct 23, 2009 07:30 PM
Force rescues Darth Vader on M1
Dave Prowse, who plays Darth Vader in the Star Wars films, was saved by the Highways Agency motorway rescue force.
While assisting Dave, who lives in Croydon, the traffic officers realised who he was and also the unusual history of his Mercedes car.
"The car was previously owned by my good friend Kenny Baker who was R2D2," said Dave.
"He used to keep a little ladder inside the boot so he could climb up and put his suitcases inside.
"When he had finished, he'd put the ladder back and used a cord to shut the boot.
"I decided to leave the cord there as a reminder of the car's previous owner."
The article also mentions Prowse's role as the Green Cross Code Man promoting traffic safety.
Green cross code man on YouTube
Looking forward to it.
I appreciate the upgrade, but a couple things seem to have made it harder to keep up with threads. As already mentioned, it would be nice to have an option to disable the poster avatars and icons in the thread index. The avatars are distracting and don't tell anything about the thread (as opposed to thumbnails relevant to the post or project) and their size means less threads listed per screen. Also, forums and threads with new unread posts used to be in a bold font, but now all the threads seem to be the same non-bold font, regardless of whether or not there have been new posts.
Well, I saw an interview with director J.J. Abrams somewhere and he said he knew he would never get the chance to direct a Star Wars film, so he thought of this as one and only shot to direct a Star Wars type film. He was intentionally going for more of a Star Wars vibe within the Trek universe.
Personally, I think the number one problem with the prequels is that Lucas didn't hand over the project to a new generation of writers and directors. There were so many talented up-and-coming names mentioned in the 90s that would undoubtedly have done something infinitely better than what we got.
Whenever I think about the prequels, I think about all the super-talented and creative artists and technicians who grew on the Star Wars films and studied and worked their whole lives to grow up and live the dream working at ILM and Lucasfilm on producing new Star Wars films. Then they all ended up being trapped having to work on garbage. I wonder how many of them were working on the films and thinking to themselves, "This stuff is horrible," but they couldn't do anything about it because they knew they wouldn't be able to get through to George anyway and they didn't want to rock the boat for fear of losing their jobs. I just wish he had handed over the reins to the next generation of filmmakers, who were the equivalent of who he was in '75.
I know the magic of the original series could never be recaptured, but the prequels (or whatever new films) still could have been something special. Unfortunately, what they ended up with was a gaping black hole of wasted opportunity.
Tobar said:Well you know neebis the new Republic Heroes game is going to be simultaneously released on consoles and PC, right?
Yes, I guess that may have to do with the recent change in leadership I mentioned. Although I actually do enjoy the show, the Republic Heroes trailer didn't get me too excited, unlike when I first started hearing about Force Unleashed. I'll have to see more and read some reviews before considering it.
xhonzi said:neebis, did you know that they are releasing a PC version this fall sometime? It'll be the Sith Edition with all of the extra content.
Yes thanks I know, that's why I posted. I can't sign a petition against them finally releasing a PC version. Console owners are lucky to be complaining about not getting one expansion, when I still can't even play the original game yet...
C3PX said: I have always had the PC along side my consoles.
...you can't blame game companies for diverting their focus to the larger group of customers.
Well, maybe I'm not a serious gamer or just old fashioned, but I just like playing on PC (mouse+keyboard) much better than on consoles. I like playing open ended longer games (RPGs, space sims, FPS, etc.), with all sorts of community mods and add ons. I like multiplayer with (keyboard) text chat (voice can get on my nerves) and more networking options on PC. I don't like console controllers and I don't sit in front of my TV to game.
It's really not that I couldn't afford to buy a console. When I play consoles at friends and relatives, always think to myself "this would be much better on PC" (with PC controls). I also don't like consoles being stuck in a hardware cycle. When the current gen came out, they were obviously more bang for the buck compared to a gaming PC. Now, a few years into the cycle when they finally have a decent catalog of games available, the hardware is holding them back compared to a mid-range gaming PC. It's like that every generation. And for the price of a PC or upgrades, you're obviously also getting a multi-use/general-purpose computer. For me, consoles just seem to be about control, they take hardware and limit it's functionality for purely marketing reasons, then they go after people who try to open it up.
Anyway, I know PC gaming is a lost cause and by now I'm used to waiting forever for console leftovers, but the one thing that really ticks me off is companies who promote games as "console only" for years, then turn around and offer a PC version after they've sold as many console copies as they can. And they expect PC gamers take it on the chin every time and buy the outdated games for full price and like it. So far, there's only been one game that was "console only" that I've been interested in that hasn't eventually been announced for PC...it happens every time. I understand the marketing, but it's the same BS every time and if you follow the game market for more than a year or two it's so obvious that the PR guys are lying about lack of PC releases. It's a complete lack of respect for their customers.
I admit you can't beat a console for drop-n-play, but I haven't run into any major hurdles getting PC games to run, except once with buggy DRM...and that's a whole other can of worms.
FWIW, I heard that the previous head of LucasArts when The Force Unleashed was originally released was extremely pro-console and anti-PC. Supposedly, there is a new person in charge now with more respect for PC gaming. This person is supposed to be behind the PC release of Force Unleased as well as release of some LucasArts classics for PC on Steam.
I've been waiting forever for this PC release which they said would never happen, so I don't have much sympathy for console owners who have been able to play the game since last year. I'm a long time Star Wars PC gamer and followed all the news about the Force Unleashed since it was first announced and they went out of their way to say there wasn't going to be a PC release. I'm sick of PC gamers getting the shaft, waiting an extra year for a release and getting, sloppy second-hand ports with clumsy console interfaces.
satanika said:Thanks for the 'review'! :)
No low-end freqs was redirected during the upmix.
I don't know the technicalities of active matrix decoding, so I don't know if it favors some frequencies 'by default', I mean maybe it puts more of the 'voice freqs' in the center channel, making them seem louder?
One question though: Did you listen to the 2.0 as stereo or did you run it through a hardware dpl/dpl2/neo6/etc decoder?
With the DC48 track, my receiver takes the Digital 2.0 from optical S/PDIF and automatically detects and decodes it as Prologic and I have 5 speakers (L,C,R,LS,RS) plus a powered subwoofer. So I was listening to it as proper surround, not just 2 channel/2 speakers. I might be able to force it to Prologic II, but I didn't think Prologic II was around in 1993.
By the way, did you use the latest version of ATSurround 1.0? Do you know if there is a big difference in output between that and the older freeware 0.1.6a? Would the AS2 setting be the equivalent of the active matrix you used? Or ASr?
Has anyone ever attempted a project to merge an LD capture with the GOUT video on the field level? I wonder if it's possible to reconstruct frames and get a bit more detail/vertical resolution without introducing to much analog noise. Of course, even if such an avisynth script was possible, it would be a huge project, manually aligning every shot (every frame?) and color correcting to match.
I muxed a version of the full film (ANH) with 3 audio tracks: 1) DC48 encoded with Aften, 2) satanika's 5.1 upmix of hairy_hen's LFE mix and 3) the retail GOUT mix, so I could switch back and forth on the fly and make a better comparison.
The DC48 was as expected and as previously posted, it was a nice full and rich sound, within the limits of Prologic. It definitely lacks a discreet channel sound of your 5.1 or any modern film, but it feels nicely integrated within it's range and limitations. I've since watched the whole film with it and it works for me as the definitive 1993 mix.
I only listened to a few sections of the retail GOUT mix for comparison to both other tracks, and really there is no comparison. It just sounds very thin next either of the other mixes.
I haven't watched the whole film with the hairy_hen/satanika 5.1 yet, but I spent some time listening to many more sections throughout the film including the Battle of Yavin. First off, I didn't detect any significant degradation or other negative artifacts of the upmix process (at least to my untrained ear on my budget 5.1 system). I had wondered if that might be an issue, but I didn't hear anything that would detract from my viewing or listening experience.
In general, the hairy_hen/satanika 5.1 is crisper, with sharper separation of sound and a nice booming low end, especially on the space battle scenes. For the space scenes most of all, this 5.1 really makes the sound more powerful and gives the audio more of a pop, in the positive sense of "visual pop", the audio equivalent of richer colors and contrast. Among other qualities, the dialog also benefits from a clearer, more discreet sound.
Now, being able to A-B listen (switching back and forth from DC48 to h_h/s 5.1) I could hear another quality that was different between the two, besides just the LFE and 5.1 upmix. In comparison to DC48, the h_h/s 5.1 mid and high ranges seem to be boosted almost like turning up the treble, so the sounds are sharper. It's especially noticeable on dialog and horn instruments in the music.
I haven't heard hairy_hen's original 2.1 and I didn't have it on the video for comparison, so I don't know if that quality was part of hairy_hen's original processing or if the effect is only present on the 5.1 upmix. I didn't recall seeing a mention of additional sharpening or processing of the the mid and high ranges, so I can only guess that it might be due to the ATSurround process. I'm not sure if part of the low end was stripped from the main channels and redirected to the LFE along with the actual LFE track or if the ATSurround matrix algorithm just has the quality of dialing up the "treble" as part of the process.
I wonder if anyone else noticed this quality of the h_h/s 5.1 mix. It may just be me and it may only be detectable when switching back and forth in a direct comparison to the DC48 track. It's not necessarily a negative, it's just different when compared to the DC48. Obviously, this effect also contributes to the crisp, sharp and more discreet quality of dialog, fx and high end of music (horns, etc.).
Scanning through the film to test various sections, I noticed a only few areas where either the overall effect of the LFE or increased crispness/treble didn't quite feel right (to my back-seat, amateur mixer's ears).
04:42 - 49 The ambient ship sound of doom as Vader walks down the hall seems a bit much here with the boosted LFE, especially in comparison to the intent of the sound in the DC48. There is a similar, but more subtle effect throughout the film in this sequence and with the Death Star interior ambient sound, but this short section is the only place where the LFE seems overdone in relation to the rest of the sound and surrounding shots. I know it's intentional, but the relative weighting of the low end in the DC48 mix works better for me.
44:14 ... Throughout sections of the Catina scene between music and dialog, the room tone/background ambient noise and voices/tape hiss(?) is a bit more prominent and over-emphasized by the crisp/treble quality of the 5.1 mix, in comparison to the DC48.
1:31:32 ... The Falcon interior ambient noise (jet plane interior sound, etc.) takes on more of a hissing/noise quality under the music due to the same crisp/treble values.
I didn't listen and compare the entire film, so there may be other sections with similar issues. I have the feeling that these areas only stood out to me because I was switching back and forth between the DC48 and h_h/s 5.1 and intently listening for differences. I doubt they would be very noticeable during a normal viewing of the film with the 5.1 track alone.
In conclusion, the h_h/s 5.1 passes with flying colors as a great alternative track. It's very listenable and watchable and really dials up the intensity of the space flybys and battle scene a few notches. The dialog also has a more discreet quality more like a modern 5.1 mix and it's easier to pick out than on the DC48. I just watched the full film with the DC48 Prologic and I had to turn my receiver up a couple notches louder than I usually listen to 5.1 to get the right feel of sound I'm used to.
My comments are only intended as constructive feedback and to compare notes with what others are hearing. I'm especially interested to know if anyone else is hearing the crispness/sharpness of the 5.1. I wonder if it's only on the 5.1 or also on the 2.1 and if it's due to ATSurround or some other filter or perhaps it's an unintended effect of part of the editing or upmix conversion process.
I also tried YAHR and some other halo reducers before this latest discussion and I couldn't figure out any settings or combination of filters that successfully reduced halos without degrading the rest of the image (loss of detail, blurring, watercolor effect and re-sharpening or pre-sharpening didn't help). The source tape is just such poor quality it's tough to fix one thing without causing other problems.
Aleksbmw said:Im thinking of releasing a blue ray format release also, since whats the point in IVTC the whole thing then cramming it back into interlaced for a dvd. Progressive > interlaced.
Depending on your player and TV/display, a progressive DVD will play back full progressive frames.
hairy_hen said:
Here you go neebis: http://www.sendspace.com/file/c0cb2i LFE-only FLACs for all three movies re-uploaded.
Thanks very much for your comments and for uploading your LFE tracks again. I thought I had saved them a few weeks ago, but I was wrong. Now, I have it saved for any future projects.
My previous comparison was only the first 10 minutes of the movie, so I'll definitely give the end of the movie a try too. My previous listening tests were back to back audio only, one after another and my dual-layer video is too big for more than one track, but I may do a quick low video bitrate encode, so I can have multiple tracks and switch back and forth between them on-the-fly.
Well, now that I'm done with my original '93 version, I want to experiment with other options. I may try to do my own upmix and I'll probably also try a version with the standard mono mix. (Hey, I wonder if 1.1 AC3 (mono+bass) is possible?)
Could someone please send me a new link for hairy_hen's LFE-only FLACs file? The link earlier in the thread says the file has been deleted.
Thanks.
Thanks very much for your detailed reply, satanika. Honestly, I couldn't say that could discern any issues with your 5.1 track. It just has a different feel, as expected. I'll do some more listening tests to see if I can pin down the difference in a way I can explain better. I may also try to see if I can replicate your process with the unedited DC48 track + LFE.
I haven't listened to the DTS yet, but maybe I will try that to see if I can hear any difference. My original audio-only listening tests were done as AVCHD on SD card, which isn't compatible with DTS on my player (at least, I don't think this is is). I know the 1.5 Mbps track won't fit with my video bitrate, but I may be able to squeeze the 640 Kbps track on the disc.
hairy_hen said:On another note: since this is the LFE thread--I was wondering if anyone who downloaded them, either in stereo or 5.1, would care to comment on their experiences with those soundtracks. How well did the bass integrate into the movie--did it enhance the movie, or detract from it, or not call particular attention to itself? How was the surround sound if you have it? I'm interested to hear folks' impressions, whether general or specific.
First of all, thanks to you and satanika for putting these together.
I was just working on my first try on ANH with g-force's script and I listened to the first 10 minutes (audio only without video) on my system to try to compare satanika's 5.1 upmix of your track to Belbecus' DC48 that I encoded with Aften at 448. Let me preface my impressions by saying that I'm much more of a video/visual guy (and sensitive to that) than an audio guy and I have a very low-end receiver and speakers in an acoustically poor room.
Your 5.1 mix seemed nice and clean and definitely discrete and the low end rumble did add to the experience (more theater-like or modern home video sounding). In comparison to your 5.1 and modern 5.1 mixes in general, the DC48 mix decoded with Prologic seemed a tiny bit muffled and a bit muddy (for lack of a better word) in terms of channels overlapping(?) between speakers with the old fashioned Prologic surround. In other words, the DC48 sounded like Prologic has always sounded to me since the time it was state of the art in home theater. There was another general, overall quality that I felt was different between the two mixes, but I couldn't really pin it down or put it into words.
Apologies to you and satanika, but for a number of reasons, I decided to do my first full mux of the (g-force script processed) movie with the Belbecus mix. First and foremost is that the video is essentially the 1993 version, so creating a disc that was faithful to the 1993 LD presentation felt right to me, as a trade off from having a more modern "discrete" mix with more prominent bass. The retro Prologic sound just sounded right. For similar reasons, I also wanted to have a version that kept the original '93 edit, without the minor edits you mentioned.
Again as I said, I admittedly don't have the best ear or the best setup, so I may have have chosen the other track more for sentimental reasons than anything technical.
Of course, I am hanging on to your 5.1 mixes, so I can always do another mux with my newly encoded video. I did have a few questions that I was meaning to ask.
I was originally under the mistaken impression that you recorded your LFE track in Sound Studio, but now re-reading the thread, I see that you have since switched to an all digital method to demux and split the channels to extract the LFE track. Can I ask what software you used for that? Was it Tranzcode, BeLight/BeSweet, HeadAC3he or something else?
Will your LFE track work with Belbecus' DC48 unedited mix (without your other custom edits)?
For satanika:
I see you used ATSurround active matrix to do the upmix. That seems to be a plugin for foobar2000 or Winamp. Did you pipe the audio through one of those or use some other method? Or is there another version of ATSurround? Can you explain your process exactly? What settings and setup did you use for the relevant applications? Did you use any of the files from the wav_to_5_1_upmixer.rar you posted earlier for the final work or other tools?
Is there a generational loss or potential artifacts created by the decoder process separating the Prologic channels? Is there is a slight degradation of the audio when comparing this multi-step process to the one step of encoding the Belbecus DC48 mix directly to 2 channel AC3? Should it be noticeable or not? Would be it be like a very mild version of the artifacts caused by re-encoding an MP3 over and over a few generations?
Please don't take any of my questions the wrong way or as any sort of criticism. My ear isn't that sensitive. I'm just honestly wondering what the answers are.
Thanks again for sharing your work and any insights you may have.