Well, I would assume so. Speaking of the Holiday Special, I recall something about how Lucas allowed a documentary filmmaker to have access to the original copy of the Holiday Special back in '04. If the Holiday Special (something I can assure you Lucas hated more than the OOT) was still in watchable condition after 25 years, I'm sure the original parts of the negative cut out for the SE are in a bit better condition then some people may think.
Do you think that Disney will include the Holiday Special in future boxed sets? As hilariously bad as the Holiday Special is, there's a big market for it as far as Star Wars fans go.
ObiWanKennerobi said:We know Anakin was a great guy because Alec Guinness can actually act. When he says "and a good friend" it is said with such a glowing genuine warmth and wistful nostalgia, it simply couldn't have been any other way.
Everyone argues with their good friends.
I think the main problem I have with the Obi-Wan/Anakin friendship is that Anakin is portrayed as a completely unlikable person (they made him WAY too angry and murderous in Attack of the Clones), and they didn't show enough of Obi-Wan and Anakin acting as friends for the audience to be able to look past the arguing. Maybe if they had acted like great friends from the start and then as the PT went on and Anakin started drifting towards the dark side they could've started arguing more and more, but Lucas never really emphasized their friendship in the first place.
As for what I like about the prequels, I like a couple of little things like Christopher Lee (even though that character was a completely wasted opportunity to make an interesting villain). Not much else though except for Ian McDiarmid's excellent portrayal of the Emperor, but even that wasn't enough to make up for how confusing and nonsensical the Emperor's plan was.
I also think that if there was something that was preventing them from ever releasing the OUT (contractual or not) we'd have heard by now. Also, if they truly will not ever consider releasing the OUT then I think they may have said something like, "Hello Robby, the current versions of Star Wars are the official versions bla bla bla..." or something along those lines.
I don't think Disney is the right place to be contacting about Star Wars on home video. 20th Century Fox owns distribution rights so they're probably the ones to ask, especially since an OUT (or any OT/PT release for that matter) has to be through them in the next few years. I guess Lucasfilm specifically (even though they're owned by Disney) would be appropriate to ask about such a thing too. Also, saying there's currently no release date set doesn't mean anything because they could still be working on it. I think we'll just have to wait and see, because even if they are planning on an OUT release, they won't tell us until a time they've deemed appropriate to announce it.
Well, I'm no expert in the subject so I just direct people to this old post from savestarwars.com from when George was still in charge.
"Lucas speaks about how expensive it would be and all the work that would need to be done, but in fact it would be relatively easy and inexpensive. One, presenting existing prints in high-def with modest cleanup would cost in the hundred thousand dollar range. Relatively speaking, this is very inexpensive, which is why obscure films like Police Academy 5 are available from original 35mm elements. Restoring the films from the negatives is not too expensive as well--because it was largely already done. In 1995, Twentieth Century Fox spent $20 million restoring and enhancing the Star Wars trilogy for the anniversary re-release. All that would need to be done today is retrieving the missing original pieces (roughly five to ten minutes per film), cleaning them if necessary, and editing them into a scan of the existing negative. Further cleanup could be done, but this is not strictly necessary, as the 1997 release had no major digital cleanup. So, the pricetag to finish the restoration of the trilogy from the negatives would be in the range of a million dollars, to throw a ballpark figure out there. To put this in perspective, the 2004 DVD set sold $100 million in its day of release. To put it in greater perspective, Lucas is a billionaire as it is. Lucas also need not involve himself in this, as film restorationists could handle the project themselves and seek to match the new digital copy to archival material. The project could be outsourced as well, to Criterion for example."
Fang Zei said:
Here's my best guess at what's going on:
This rumored digital release in November will probably be the 2011 versions of the movies and nothing more. The big deal about it that LFL/Disney will probably make in the advertising is that this is the first time these movies have been made available to buy/rent as a digital download (which, to my knowledge, would be true). Maybe they'll throw in some itunes extras as an added bonus. We already heard Roger Christian say that his movie (forgot the name of it) might be included in said digital extras.
Meanwhile, we know pretty much for a fact that Reliance MediaWorks has done a 4k remaster of the OT. The comparison of the Obi-Wan/Vader duel with other transfers of the movie seems to indicate these are not the unaltered sabers. Since the sabers were still unaltered in the '97 version, this would suggest that at least some of the '04/'11 changes are in fact being redone. My best guess is that this was to be (and might still be) for the 3D conversion and theatrical re-release of the revised OT, an "SE 2.0" if you will.
I'm not sure how likely this would be, but would they possibly simultaneously restore both the OUT and the current SE? Would they be able to scan the negative as well as the old scenes and recreate the OUT for a blue ray release and then go back and add in some SE changes (like 04 Jabba and lightsabers) and release that in theatres. Would that be something they'd do or is that completely unlikely?
I think it got pulled down after several sites started commenting on it and speculating about it. I wonder what that was all about. Maybe the 4k restoration is for a future release that they don't want anyone to know about yet, (fingers crossed for OUT, but not too sure if that's likely), or maybe they saw that a lot of people thought it was for the OUT and it isn't, so they were asked to take it down so people don't get their hopes up for something they aren't getting. Still though, i'm guessing it was taken down at the request of Lucasfilm since it wouldn't make sense for RMW to not want it on their projects list anymore, I mean, restoring Star Wars is a big thing to have on your company's resume.
They may have taken it down because it was causing confusion. But yes, I bet you're right about them taking it down after being asked to by Lucasfilm
Well, if (and it's still a big if) they are planning on releasing the OUT at christmas time, or next fall, then vintage trailers would be a fun way to advertise it. I'm sure if the Lucasfilm people at comic con even slightly hinted at an OUT release we'd have heard about it by now.
Something I think we can all agree will happen for certain, is that Disney WILL re-release the OT (whether unaltered or SE) in the lead up to episode VII. Even if they don't release them again before EVII they will definitely release them on home video eventually (the fox distribution rights are nothing new), and when that happens they want their new release to sell well, and including the OUT will do that. It's not a big investment from what I've heard to restore the OUT, so there's no way they'll lose money on it, or even make significantly less, plus it gives them an excuse to sell the Trilogy again. Every release of SW since the first DVD release has been criticized for not including the OUT, so I really can't see Disney just ignoring the OUT and pretending it doesn't exist. Also, there is a definite market out there for it, just look at how excited people on the internet got when the bleeding cool rumor surfaced a couple months back. Just because not everyone complains about the SE's all the time doesn't mean they don't want the OOT again. Remember, if they do release the SE's again without including the OUT they'll have to give an answer as to why not, and they really don't have an answer since there's no artistic reason for holding the original films back. That's just my take on the whole thing.
EDIT: Also, there was enough demand that even George allowed the release of the GOUT (as pathetic as it was), and if George of all people will allow a release of the OUT, then Disney sure as hell will
As far as PR goes, I think it will play a bigger role in the Disney OUT decision than people might think. George Lucas' reputation was damn near destroyed after the SE's and PT, and I don't think "destroyed" is an exaggeration. He got made fun of everywhere; South Park was especially hard on him. Also, on almost every Complete Saga blu ray review I've read, there were comments on the absence of the unaltered versions, people are aware that the OUT has been held back for years. Also, in almost every interview with LFL people I've seen about the OT there's been questions asked about the OOT and if we'll ever see it. I don't want to pretend that an OOT release is going to make back Disney's 4 Billion, but I think some people are really underestimating the value of an OOT release.
I don't know about canon, but I bet when the OUT is restored and re-released it will be the main selling point of that release. I'm sure they'll include the SE's but the main feature will be the OUT. Basically the opposite of the '06 DVD's where the GOUT was just a tacked on afterthought; the SE's will be more of an obligatory feature they add just to make sure they aren't excluding any people who might buy it. Also, for those who say the OUT won't be a product that sells well, the OT always sells well each time it is released, even when you only got the special editions (people who like the SE's better than the OUT are a definite minority, at least amongst everyone I know), and pretty much all Star Wars fans (SE fans included) would jump on an OUT release because it's been so long since we've seen it officially released (not counting the GOUT, which was just insulting IMO). I think with Disney in charge the SE isn't going to disappear, but it's just going to be a bonus feature, maybe even eventually getting phased out and ignored completely. This is all just my own speculation and wishful thinking, but it seems like something they would do
Also, I say they won't officially retcon the SE's because I think it'll be like the PT, meaning Disney will just sort of distance themselves from it and let us all forget they exist
If they do release the OUT I hope they go all out on the package and not something so ugly as that Complete Saga set.
Idk about you, but if there's one thing that truly encapsulates what the Star Wars Saga is all about, it's a picture of Jake Lloyd... ;)
Fang Zei said:
As for the OUT, I'll be surprised if not shocked if they don't put it out on blu-ray by the end of next year. If they look as good as the archival versions of Blade Runner I'll be happy. Just don't botch them like Paramount did with most of the Trek films. Now that was the blu-ray equivalent of the GOUT.
Honestly, I'd be surprised if they ever release Star Wars again WITHOUT including the OUT. I must stress that I can't say whether or not it will be a satisfactory restoration, but Disney knows that releasing the movies without the OUT is just alienating some of their potential customers, and they're smarter than that.
My point was that Lucas isn't in control anymore. Lucas owned Lucasfilm, which produced the movies, and Disney bought Lucasfilm. Yes Disney is still beholden to previous contracts and deals, i.e. Fox distribution rights, but I doubt Disney has any requirement to put up with George's "true vision" nonsense
The question is, would the Technicolor prints be the property of Lucasfilm, or Lucas himself. If the former, Disney would now own them.
From my understand Disney made sure to get everything when they bought Lucasfilm. I doubt Disney would pay him 4 billion dollars and not get the original film material for the existing movies. I'm assuming most of that stuff is kept in the Lucasfilm warehouse anyway, so I'm guess it's Disney's now, but I could be wrong
I think that this 4k thing was something created for the 3D release, and now that that's cancelled maybe Disney is using it for this new digital release this year just to get some money out of it.
Well, hiring another team to restore the movies wouldn't increase the workload of the folks responsible for Episode VII, so that is a possibility.
Would an OUT blu ray be something they would announce at Comic con?
I should've been more clear, I wasn't commenting on the quality of the blu rays, and by no means was I trying to compare the director's cuts to the Special Editions, I like the director's cuts; I was basically just using it as an example of theatrical movies being released on their own without other versions
Also don't forget, the theatrical versions of the 6 Star Trek films were released on blu ray (some of them had never been released except for their director's cut). These movies did not come with the director's cuts, just the original films
Since the 2011 Blu rays are subpar at best the SE would need a re-release too, and I doubt Disney will release it without the OOT because it would make them seem like Lucas. I honestly don't think ANYONE (fans or not) would care if they just got the OOT and not the SE. But I think you're right, for now if they release the OT it would probably still have the SE's. I don't think canon as far as SE's go is a concern, I don't think anyone is worried about whether or not it is canon that CGI green dinosaurs walk in front of the screen in Star Wars.
I think it's fucking amazing that a proper official release isn't being sold after the 10+ years this community has existed.
It is a weird thought that Star Wars hasn't been released in almost 20 years, but I'm not surprised Lucas never released it, he hates the OUT. I would be surprised if Disney doesn't release it though, since they have no reason not to. Then again I don't have all the facts so there may be something I don't know about preventing them from releasing the OT but I highly doubt it.
I still think that if Disney does release a proper restoration of the OOT, it'll be before Episode VII, or at least before we get too far into the ST. If they wait too long then OT fans will really hate them just like Lucas, and I think they want to try and win over every Star Wars demographic before these new movies, then again I could be wrong because 'decanonizing' the EU was pretty bold, but I'm sure anyone interested in the EU will still go to Episode VII anyway. I still really doubt that they will consult Lucas about the OOT or anything related to the previous movies; Disney won't pay someone 4 billion dollars just to be held back by some confusing nondescript "vision" that's always changing. Basically what I think is that if Disney wants to release the OOT, they will, and if they don't want to, then they won't (although I can't imagine why they wouldn't want to).
So, Disney owns the films but Fox owns the distribution rights for a few more years, and they own the distribution right for Star Wars forever unless they sell it.
Will Disney and Fox be able to work out a deal when releasing the OUT if that's something they decide to do? I've seen people online think that since Fox owns distribution rights we won't see the OUT officially released until 2020 at least. I don't see how Fox and Disney couldn't collaborate when it comes to a cash cow like Star Wars. Not to mention, Fox didn't block Lucas from releasing anything. Also, Fox only has the distribution rights for a few more years, so wouldn't they want to milk it for all it's worth? Basically, I just wonder what everyone else thinks about this. Do you think it's as big of a stumbling block as some people seem to think?
It should be noted that the before and after sample with the droids in the desert seems to be the old 2004 Lowry fiasco. It's old.
I disagree. It looks like a new cleanup. Here's why:
The damage in the red circle of the first comparison is completely dealt with in the RMW cleanup. However, this same cleanup seems to add a peculiar bit of damage in the green circle of the first comparison.
Moving to the comparison with the Blu-ray, there now appears to be damage in the red circle which was supposedly dealt with in the RMW cleanup. In the green circle of the Blu-ray, the spot of damage near R2 which is present in the cleanup is gone in the Blu-ray (and there's a different green artifact apparent in the Blu-ray). Also, I reduced the quality of the Blu-ray to match the RMW video, and the discrepancy remains, so the video resolution can hold this damage information.
There are several such damage discrepancies in this shot. I really don't think that this is the original Lowry work.
The lightsabers do seem to be the '04 sabers, but what about NeverarGreat's screenshot comparisons? Don't these point towards something that is not the Lowry work from the DVD and blu ray?