ken-obi

yotsuya said:

ken-obi said:

yotsuya said:

It is shame that this series, so anticipated for years, has so low production values so far.

I don’t get how this has a low production value. That just baffles me. I’ve watched the first episode 3 times and as good if not better than any episode of The Mandelorian. I get it if you don’t like it or don’t like some of their choices, but blasting the production quality of something this well made just blows my mind.

I hardly blasted the production quality. I said it was a shame that the production values for this is so low for the episodes we have seen this far.

Me saying that blew your mind? Really?
 

Okay, then I’ll try and expand upon what I said. To me it looks cheap in places, certain scenes in the desert, the rooftop fight, Revan spinning and twirling her way through it, and the fake Jedi’s “office”. I found them to look cheap and uninteresting. Costuming, editing, cinematography and camera placement also looked off. That could The Void, or other factors, but they were jarring to me and appeared cheaply done too.

To me The Mandalorian looks superior to this from a production standpoint. This series so far is on a par with BOBF, and not the quality episodes featuring The Mandalorian. That new Andor teaser looked to have superior production values than this (though only a teaser, obviously).

So far Kenobi has given me the feel of a modern “sy-fy” sci-fi show shot on a budget and tight schedule out in Canada. Not a well-funded limited series by Disney+ with the technical know-how and experience of Lucasfilm, who have re-tooled the story (as both a film and TV series) and spent some serious time on this show. To me this is a flagship series, or should be. Bridging the Prequel and Original eras, and possibly the fans of those trilogies, with a much anticipated story of one many fans’ more endearing characters, played by an actor that even the most ardent Prequel critic would acknowledge did a solid job with the work given him in the Prequel films.

The Kenobi story is compelling, the execution and feel of the show so far is not. The acting is strong, Inquisitors apart, as originally posted this is surprising given the quality of performances on their other projects.

Again this just for the two episodes we have seen so far. I’ll gladly eat humble pie if the remaining episodes have better production values to them.

If there is a “two-hander” episode with just Ewan and Hayden talking and building up to future confrontation then the production values won’t matter as much. The story, the acting, the build-up is what really matters here in this series. Yet so far, when it is opened up to set the scene, or showcase the backdrops, or attempting to show off (like Revan on the rooftops) then that is where it is suffering production-wise.

But that’s all just my opinion. I’m glad you are enjoying it, and others too. I hope that goes for the future episodes of this as well.

Again, I don’t get it. So a big empty room is somehow not realistic? I just walked through a functioning location today that looked very similar (except it was white and brightly lit). I think you just don’t like their choice and instead of just saying you don’t like what they did, you are insulting their abilities. I don’t think that is fair. I definitely don’t agree. I had no problem with any of the things you point out and I definitely don’t think they point to any flaws in the production. Sets do not have to be crowded to be realistic. I definitely don’t get the “syfy out of canada” feel like you describe. I get more of the big hollywood feel with a big budget.

I don’t know what else to say. It is simply my opinion of what I’ve seen so far (I haven’t seen the third episode yet). Those scenes I mentioned reminded my of some cheaper generic sci-fi tv shows, not the quality of what a Star Wars flagship tv series by Lucasfilm should be. It felt cheap. Or “off” somehow. Other scenes didn’t, and ranged decent to very good, if that helps?

Again, I’m glad you are enjoying the series and find the production values to be high. I’m hoping to find that too in the rest of the episodes of this series.

WitchDR said:

jedi_bendu said:

I regret to report that certain people are being racist knobs towards a black actor in Star Wars. Again.

Yep Disney’s doing that thing where they call fans a bunch of “-ism’s” and “-phobe’s” because they criticize one of their characters or movies. All so tiring. Singling out a few trolls that are saying racist things to get a reaction, while the overwhelming response from fans has been about her terrible acting. Has absolutely nothing to do with skin color. The fact they put those articles out beforehand warning Moses Ingram of “racist” comments from fans, tells me they knew the character was bad and going to cause issues, and are now going to use race to shield it from any criticism.

No, they are not doing “that thing where they call fans a bunch of “-ism’s” and “-phobe’s” because they criticize one of their characters or movies.”

After the actress posted some of the racist abuse she had received online, the Star Wars twitter account posted:

“We are proud to welcome Moses Ingram to the Star Wars family and excited for Reva’s story to unfold. If anyone intends to make her feel in any way unwelcome, we have only one thing to say: we resist.
There are more than 20 million sentient species in the Star Wars galaxy, don’t choose to be a racist.”

The Star Wars account was obviously not criticising people who have problems with her performance.

Nor was it “using race to shield it from any criticism.”

There is nothing wrong with what the Star Wars account posted. In fact good on them for calling out the racism sent her way, and racism in general.

It appears you may have some issues with racism being called out. Those are just your issues, thankfully.

And also issues for racists, I imagine.

yotsuya said:

It is shame that this series, so anticipated for years, has so low production values so far.

I don’t get how this has a low production value. That just baffles me. I’ve watched the first episode 3 times and as good if not better than any episode of The Mandelorian. I get it if you don’t like it or don’t like some of their choices, but blasting the production quality of something this well made just blows my mind.

I hardly blasted the production quality. I said it was a shame that the production values for this is so low for the episodes we have seen this far.

Me saying that blew your mind? Really?
 

Okay, then I’ll try and expand upon what I said. To me it looks cheap in places, certain scenes in the desert, the rooftop fight, Revan spinning and twirling her way through it, and the fake Jedi’s “office”. I found them to look cheap and uninteresting. Costuming, editing, cinematography and camera placement also looked off. That could The Void, or other factors, but they were jarring to me and appeared cheaply done too.

To me The Mandalorian looks superior to this from a production standpoint. This series so far is on a par with BOBF, and not the quality episodes featuring The Mandalorian. That new Andor teaser looked to have superior production values than this (though only a teaser, obviously).

So far Kenobi has given me the feel of a modern “sy-fy” sci-fi show shot on a budget and tight schedule out in Canada. Not a well-funded limited series by Disney+ with the technical know-how and experience of Lucasfilm, who have re-tooled the story (as both a film and TV series) and spent some serious time on this show. To me this is a flagship series, or should be. Bridging the Prequel and Original eras, and possibly the fans of those trilogies, with a much anticipated story of one many fans’ more endearing characters, played by an actor that even the most ardent Prequel critic would acknowledge did a solid job with the work given him in the Prequel films.

The Kenobi story is compelling, the execution and feel of the show so far is not. The acting is strong, Inquisitors apart, as originally posted this is surprising given the quality of performances on their other projects.

Again this just for the two episodes we have seen so far. I’ll gladly eat humble pie if the remaining episodes have better production values to them.

If there is a “two-hander” episode with just Ewan and Hayden talking and building up to future confrontation then the production values won’t matter as much. The story, the acting, the build-up is what really matters here in this series. Yet so far, when it is opened up to set the scene, or showcase the backdrops, or attempting to show off (like Revan on the rooftops) then that is where it is suffering production-wise.

But that’s all just my opinion. I’m glad you are enjoying it, and others too. I hope that goes for the future episodes of this as well.

Omni said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5UX1Adanis - teaser trailer.

Not gonna lie, this looks very promising. Probably because, like Rogue One, it’s so “low stakes” in the meta sense that if it sucks it won’t matter. But I think I’m gonna love it.

Now that is a teaser trailer that feels old school Star Wars!

Sets up the premise well, is engaging, with high production values, gives you something new and interesting, and then leaves you wanting more.

DZ-330 said:

After the sequels finished, I started to get pretty annoyed with Lucasfilm and their direction… now with the Disney+ shows, it feels like a bunch of friends playing with their action figures and making something fun.

My expectation is some fun moments, cool visuals/action scenes and an alright-good story. Disney has proved they are NEVER going to reach the storytelling heights of the OT, and I’m glad to see them just trying to tell some new stories.

Absolutely this.

Lucasfilm have realised they won’t often hit those storytelling and “magic in a bottle” highs of the Original Trilogy, and instead will give more us more new stories done in a more uninspiring and “formula scifi tv” series, with the occasional sprinkling of old Star Wars magic here and there.

It is shame that this series, so anticipated for years, has so low production values so far.
 

The Inquisitors are fairly awful all around to the point of distraction. Even the acting, which is surprising and disappointing given the strong performances from the actors in their other work.

The acting from everyone else is strong as expected, and the overall story is obviously compelling, but as others have already posted, it is not executed very well in thees first two episodes.

I hope the coming episodes improve upon what we’ve seen so far, but won’t be too surprised if they don’t.

Star Wars: The Rebellion Will Be Televised

An exclusive look at the master plan for Obi-Wan Kenobi with Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen, Andor with Diego Luna, Ahsoka with Rosario Dawson—and a fleet of new shows.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/05/star-wars-cover-the-rebellion-will-be-televised
 

My interest and hopes for the Obi-Wan series have dwindled of late, with the bits of news surfacing that will be more in line with the Prequels. But Andor and Ahsoka are probably the two shows I am still looking forward to seeing.

Darth Retcon said:

I will simply be happy if they don’t use Special Edition content to demonstrate anything done in the 1970’s and 1980’s, like they have in many other official documentaries, books and articles!

That is a very good point. Let’s hope not.

“Light and Magic: New docuseries comes to Disney Plus 27th July”

https://www.fanthatracks.com/news/light-and-magic-new-docuseries-comes-to-disney-plus-27th-july/
 

"Granted unparalleled access, Academy Award®-nominated filmmaker Lawrence Kasdan takes viewers on an adventure behind the curtains of Industrial Light & Magic, the special visual effects, animation and virtual production division of Lucasfilm. Learn what inspired some of the most legendary filmmakers in Hollywood history, and follow their stories from their earliest personal films to bringing George Lucas’ vision to life. From Imagine Documentaries and Lucasfilm, and executive produced by Brian Grazer and Ron Howard, the six-part documentary series premieres exclusively on Disney+ July 27.

On Friday, May 27, attendees of Star Wars Celebration will be among the first in the world to get a sneak peek at “Light & Magic” with an “illuminating” discussion panel featuring Lawrence Kasdan and Ron Howard, joined by VFX titans Dennis Muren, Phil Tippett, Joe Johnston and Rose Duignan, and Lynwen Brennan, Lucasfilm executive vice president and general manager."

I was hoping this would be an unofficial series too, but am hopeful we’ll see some rarely seen or unseen footage, and new stories and anecdotes from from Dennis Muren, Phil Tippett and Joe Johnston.

The panel for this at Star Wars Celebration should be cool too. I hope it is streamed live or shown in full later.

From Pablo Hidalgo:

“One of those ‘now that you know, you can’t unsee it,’ every CG X-wing in the Special Edition has Wedge’s wing markings.”

And from the 2011 Special Edition:

“in two shots at 29:47 and 29:50 of ANH, R2’s position shifts quite a bit, as do the rocks on the right, but the rocks on the left, added in 2011, remain exactly in place”

I cannot make the gif linked to the above tweet appear appear on here. If anyone can post it on here please do. It is funny to see.

Is there a thread, article, or resource which lists all the errors and mistakes introduced into the Original Trilogy films by the alterations made in the Special Editions (1997, 2004, 2011, and 2019)?

I follow some of Star Wars Visual Comparisons exhaustive work on listing all the changes made to the theatrical cuts, and have also read through some of the many great threads on here. But I can not find a resource dedicated to just the Special Editions’ errors and mistakes.

Does such a resource exist? Can someone point me to it, please?

bigj1033 said:

The list of video formats on archive.org for Star Wars, forgot to add the Japanese and U.K. Video8 cassettes format. 1988 for ROTJ in the U.k. and I believe in 1991 for the whole original trilogy in Japan on Video8. Below are YouTube video links of Nathan Butler talking about his copies of the original trilogy on Video8 and a video on how he acquired them:

Link for Japanese Trilogy on Video8:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ3krmisvRs&t=3s

Link for his U.K. copy of ROTJ:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i2eOrR6m1_o

Link to his story about how he acquired the Japanese Original Trilogy:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NZRV0yvarkY

Also, Nathan Butler makes lots of Star Wars videos. I would definitely recommend you check out his channel.

I’ve recently got into his YouTube channel from some of the links posted on here. That is an insane amount of videos for Original Trilogy releases, but all done very well and shines a light on some of the earlier and rare releases for the OT.

His recent 3-book set “A Saga On Home Video” looks fascinating, but very much out of my price range. For the Original Trilogy releases it looks like “Volume 1” would be the book to go for.
 

The Home Releases and Formats of the differing versions of the OT films on here has some awesome discussion threads for the following releases:

“Info Links : TV : Super 8 : Home Video : Video8 : CED : VHD : Laserdiscs : VCD : 2004 DVD : 2006 DVD (GOUT) : Blu ray : Steelbooks (blu ray) : Digital Downloads (2015) : Streaming (Disney+ in 2019) : 4K UHD : 3D : Miscellaneous : Cinema”
 

But I haven’t seen anything online that has an up to date list of all the OT releases and formats. Has anyone else?

Bring back the time when games were announced and released later the same year. And not later in the decade.
I’m joking but, maybe only half joking.

I think I’m too long in the tooth for games these days. Even the new Lego Star Wars didn’t do much for me, although looks a lot of fun, well designed, and people love it, I was playing the old Lego Original Trilogy game from 15 years ago an hour or two later.
 

It is good to see that Amy Hennig gets another chance at doing a Star Wars game after what happened last time.

Servii said:

On a side note, I really miss the old handdrawn cover art of the old EU books. The newer book covers look a lot more digital and minimalistic, and I’m not really a fan of that.

The same for me. Looking around at the fantastic handdrawn art, by professionals or fans, and it is something I very much miss when seeing some generic by the numbers photoshopped work on a new cover.

It is even worse when seeing a re-release of an old EU book and it does not feature the original artwork on the cover.

Servii said:

Darth Retcon said:

Ice said:

I feel that any prequel is always intended to be watched in release order; ie the very fact that it is a prequel means that it should be watched with the knowledge of the film that comes after it.

Chronological order ruins the viewing experience, at least for a first-time viewer (people who have seen all films can choose any order).

I joke, but this his would not be an issues if everyone had an option to watch the unaltered theatrical cuts. 😃
 

the image is not mine: https://twitter.com/BrandonMutala/status/1471499989448753161

That’s really the main intended purpose of Machete Order. To preserve the Vader twist while allowing a new viewer to recognize who the heck that young ghost guy is in RotJ.

It might be fun to do fan edits of AotC and RotS that account for Machete Order. It’s grown on me as a way of watching the films.

As for Rogue One, it can really be watched whenever, as long as the person has at least seen ANH beforehand. I made the mistake of showing Rogue One first to someone, and they were very confused about Darth Vader.

Sometimes I completely forget the “Machete Order” exists because of George’s unnecessary and careless meddling with his “Special Editions”:

The Star Wars Saga: Introducing Machete Order, in 2011

Star Wars Machete Order: Update and FAQ, in 2015

Both pieces are by the creator of the “Machete Order”: Rod Hilton.

I wonder if he is a member on here given his love for the OT films, the Despecialized Editions, and the 4K fan projects he mentions in his articles above.

I do like he updated them to include a “Where Do Episode VII and Rogue One fit?” section too.

dropbox spam: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Dropbox-is-now-available-in-open-beta/id/93673

ZkinandBonez said:

Of course sand doesn’t have to mean they’re on Tatooine, but I agree that it could be Force vision. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if this whole “rematch” deal turns out to be a bait-and-switch for the sake of marketing. But, for all we know they might end up doing both; i.e. a Force vision early on in the series as a bit of a teaser and an actual duel on some other planet at the end which convinces Vader that Obi-Wan has been killed…or something to that effect.

I am hoping for this too. A Force vision, a bait and switch, something included to keep the marketing people happy.

A little surprised we haven’t seen a full trailer yet, with only 6 weeks before the first couple of episodes are aired.

Anakin Starkiller said:

I agree with Jedi_Bendu, thebluefrog is just being obtuse. I for one would love to see more spinoffs based on the Sequels. I’m honestly tired of everything revolving around the Originals.

I’d like more anthology series like Visions, whether animated or live action, and set in new eras that haven’t been explored or referenced previously.

I am looking forward to some of the new content coming soon, but like yourself, do wish to see more new eras and worlds. Sequel spin-offs would be interesting to build-upon. Much like CW, TCW and Rebels attempted to build or expand on the shortcomings of the Prequels.

As said previously, Star Wars is such an amazing sandbox, the stories we could come up with are so vast, and from so many artists with differing viewpoints, and contrasting styles.

screams in the void said:

Yeah , maybe an amendment to the start of that thread along the lines , Thank you George , for giving us the original Movies we fell in love with and then go into the rest of it . It’s also worth mentioning , that in the initial petitions , George is shown appreciation for his efforts to evolve the saga , “While many of us appreciate and enjoy George Lucas’ creative evolution of the classic Star Wars films via the various releases of the ever-changing ‘Special Editions’, we respectfully state that there is tremendous importance in the original theatrical prints of the Star Wars Trilogy.” This info can be found at the top of the home page to this site and I highly recommend it to new members as well as those who may have misinformed ideas as to this sites purpose …https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/ReleaseTheOriginalTrilogy-OriginalTrilogy-coms-enduring-goal-How-you-can-help/id/90534

I think the “While many of us appreciate and enjoy George Lucas’ creative evolution of the classic Star Wars films via the various releases of the ever-changing ‘Special Editions’, we respectfully state that there is tremendous importance in the original theatrical prints of the Star Wars Trilogy.” is also in the OT Timeline thread too, among other places.
 

The “Help” section also has:

I heard you people all hate George Lucas, the Prequels, the Sequels - and Disney too, etc

Not at all - whilst some members may not like or enjoy The Prequels (or other Star Wars releases)… there are many that do - in fact there are several continuing projects on here to preserve them, as well as the Special Editions of the Original Trilogy - and numerous Fan Edits of the various releases. Disney-era Sequel Trilogy Fan Edits - and other modern Star Wars content are also available, with more projects in the works…

You’ll also find Preservations and projects for The Holiday Special, the two Ewok features, the many animated Star Wars series, radio dramas, documentaries, adverts, promos & trailers, gaming projects, curiosities, and other Star Wars content - as well as non-Star Wars projects too.

As mentioned elsewhere, we are a diverse & welcoming community - and passionate (yet civil) debate & wide-ranging views are welcome - though toxicity, personal attacks, aggressive or vitriolic attitudes, internet trolls and WUMs are not.

To paraphrase Irvin Kershner, quoted whilst directing Empire Strikes Back… ‘fight for what you love - not because you hate’.

Regarding George Lucas… whilst many of us are somewhat disappointed and frustrated he wishes not to release a high quality format of the theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy - we appreciate that without his vision, character and determination there would be no Star Wars at all - so it’d be very much incorrect to say we’re a bunch of Lucas-haters on here.
 

As far as I can tell there is something praising George in nearly every main thread or “Help Index” thing on here. But many people unfortunately don’t read them. Pro-George zealots seemingly don’t, for sure.

Omni said:

Sure, the oojason “time travelling revisionist” thread can be seen as a response to Lucas’ “efforts of burying history” over time, but when people come to this website and that thread stands tall, with no “a moment to thank George Lucas” or something thread next to it, it paints an obvious picture on how the community views him. Essentially the same thing Stoklasa is saying - a lucky hack that’s done nothing right. And of course that’s absurd. He wrote, produced and directed Star Wars and Graffiti. He wrote and produced TESB, ROTJ and the four Indy films. The man is talented, an amazing writer (even if not necessarily an amazing screenwriter) and a competent director. He made three very different films in his middle age but that doesn’t change what he did when he was younger. I think failing to recognize that is what makes Stardust come here claiming he’s a man of singular vision and that he’s right when everyone is wrong.

Of course, Stardust’s position just keeps feeding on this vicious cycle which will probably never end. Again, we should probably all learn something from Lucas’ playbook - which unsusprisingly is the same as the Jedi playbook - and learn to let go a bit.

You should re-read the “GL: Unreliable Narrator” thread again:

“As mentioned above, there have been quite a few conflicting claims and retcons on the history and development of Star Wars over the years from George himself. Attempting to highlight the intriguing and factual account of The Galaxy Far Far Away isn’t a ‘bashing Lucas’ exercise or unfounded criticism of the man himself - a philanthropist who has generously given much of his fortune away to charities, educational endevours and good causes. The same determined genius and visionary who put both his own personal health and money at risk in bringing us these three classic films and the universe within… yet this thread is more a striving for an accurate, revision-free, and authentic record on the history & evolution of Star Wars.”
 

Stardust insults, patronizes and condescends OT fans on here (not just me). He is quick to jump in and misreads what people are actually saying, in comparison to what he thinks is being said. Instead of offering an apology he will attempt to portray himself as a “victim” or as himself somehow being wronged, along with glib response of “nobody is prefect and we can all do better” or “we can all go a little far at times” type of post. When he is proven to be wrong there is no apology, and when caught out making false claims then claims he was talking about something else and changes the subject. When people state they have no interest in reading or watching additional material he posts content anyway, often with snarky comments about people not understanding the film or George’s vision, or lacking the will to try and understand them; as if he is the only one who understands it. This is often to the point where it derails the thread and topic at hand, which is far different from what Stardust has actually posted in there.

Despite other posting links to what this forum is about, how it came about, and other educational links such as to The Secret History Of Star Wars, Pollock’s Skywalking book, or OT threads such as the as “GL: Unreliable Narrator” and “Timeline” threads simply ignores them, and changes the subject.

This forum is also where Kaminski wrote much of “The Secret History Of Star Wars”, with many contributions, directly and indirectly, from the members on here. Others have said, “The People vs Lucas” documentary features contributions from members here and the site owner. The OT.com was one of the only places online where you could freely talk about the theatrical OT and the SE’s without getting banned (hello TFn and the old SW forums!) This is the place that achieved an official release of the theatrical OT films on DVD in 2006 (although George later screwed everyone over with the quality for that and basically lied again as to why). Preservation projects sprung up from here, fan edits and other projects too - and not just for Star Wars; inspiring other similar communities to do the same. This is one of the few forums online that highlights the factual history of Star Wars, and not George’s retconned and re-written official version. This doesn’t mean there is a vendetta against George, or people are vilifying him, personally attacking him, or when highlighting George’s contradictory claims or attempts at re-writing history they are in the wrong for doing so. “Striving for an accurate, revision-free, and authentic record on the history & evolution of Star Wars” is part of the fabric of this forum.

So when you say:

Omni said:

Again, we should probably all learn something from Lucas’ playbook - which unsusprisingly is the same as the Jedi playbook - and learn to let go a bit.

I say (for the shit all that it is worth): “No. Not this forum, nor the members on here that don’t want to.”
 

As others have also said, Stardust has no respect for this forum, the people here, or what they say in conversations. As well-written as his posts are, he is not posting in good faith. Stardust often talks about growing and learning, but is not willing to do that himself. He is, as Darth Retcon put it earlier, “basically trolling”.

SparkySywer, among others, saw through Stardust’s latest attempt at jumping in, making a fool of himself in getting his facts completely wrong, and then trying to portray himself as the victim, here (with still no apology by Stardust):

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Unpopular-Opinion-Thread/id/80996/page/22#1479909 (with a few other observations others agree with)
 

Others too have said along these lines: ‘Countless Prequel fans are on here, or people who simply appreciate the Prequels, or who like and respect George, all get on fine with everyone and there is no problem. People worth talking with, engaging with and learning from, all done with respect, for some time now.’

What is described in the above paragraph, that’s not Stardust, and if his “position just keeps feeding on this vicious cycle which will probably never end” then he should adapt, take a leaf from the many other Prequel fans on here and start discussions in a civil manner, or leave.

As it is simply his attitude to others on here and his posting style which is causing such issues.

Taking a read from the “OT Index” thread (and well as a being a site dedicated to the preservation of the unaltered OT films):

"A reminder that TFn was a place where their moderators seemingly threatened bans for members for simply wanting to discuss the unaltered theatrical cuts of the Original Trilogy - let alone talking about some of Lucas’ conflicting claims, or criticism of the PT etc.

A significant number of members here are fans who were made to feel unwelcome at certain other online Star Wars sites - or were censored or even banned for discussing the unaltered cuts, or highlighting Lucasfilm’s disingenuous statements & alteration of history.

That the OriginalTrilogy•com is a place to openly talk about the revered original cuts of the three iconic & pioneering Star Wars films."
 

If Stardust can’t acknowledge that, or respect that, or the members on here that make up the community, then that is his problem. It is not for members on here to adapt or change. As above, fans of all Star Wars are welcome here, Prequel fans, Sequel fans, Holiday Special crazies fans, but probably not Lucas zealots who post and act like Stardust has, and is. And despite being advised on how to better engage with the community here by many people here, he simply continues on as before.

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

I’m not the only one. Darth Malgus had the same read as I did with your initial statement.

And?

How does that change my post above?

I haven’t even read what Darth Malgus has posted yet. So far it has been difficult enough getting you to read, realize, acknowledge and accept responsibility for mistaking what I actually wrote, for what you thought I wrote. “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply done it.

Are we done now? You’re going to read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in? Great. Do you want me to go read Darth Malgus post and reply to him too? If it is okay with you I’ll do this later.

I’m just pointing out that Darth Malgus had a similar read to what you said as I did. That’s all. So it’s not only me who took what you said differently from how you presented it. I’m done though for sure as it feels like I’m getting gaslighted for not using the exact words you want me to use or how my points about the backlash George and Prequel fans got were a real thing are being claimed as false when it was anything but that. Especially when it equally pushed Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, and others involved to dark places.

Again, I haven’t read what Darth Malgus has said.

You feel “gaslighted”? Don’t portray the victim. You jumped in after getting what I said completely wrong. Something which you acknowledge, but are somehow looking for excuses for, or to introduce “broader terms”.

As you like posting links to videos for others to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3nScN89Klo

Again, a “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply sufficed.

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

I’m not the only one. Darth Malgus had the same read as I did with your initial statement.

And?

How does that change my post above?

I haven’t even read what Darth Malgus has posted yet. So far it has been difficult enough getting you to read, realize, acknowledge and accept responsibility for mistaking what I actually wrote, for what you thought I wrote. “Sorry, I’ll take more care in the future to read what people are actually saying” would have simply done it.

Are we done now? You’re going to read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in? Great. Do you want me to go read Darth Malgus post and reply to him too? If it is okay with you I’ll do this later.

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

We merely have a different read on what it seemed like you said. That’s okay. We can’t agree on everything and will get a different context to some things.

BedeHistory731 said:

Mat Lucas > Matt Lanter, as far as Anakin voices go. Mat actually sounds vaguely like Hayden!

I agree Mat Lucas does sound more like Hayden vaguely but I enjoy Matt Lanter’s take on the character slightly more as he made it more of his own.

You obviously have a disconnect between what you thought I said and what I actually said.

Again, please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

I personally felt you were as you didn’t include zealous Original Trilogy fans in your initial assessment of those who can go a little far in discussing things. It felt like you were only pinpointing zealous Prequel fans. So it’s pretty much the same thing is what I’m getting at in broader terms. There’s zealous fans on both sides. I just didn’t use the word zealous at first as you did to explain the difference. I take responsibility for that.

Look at the facts in front of you. The posts and the words. It is not the same thing at all. Or in “broader terms”.

Though I am glad you accept responsibility for your mistake, and for putting words in my mouth once again.

Please read and think about what others are actually saying, before jumping in.

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

George has had many visions, re-wrote history, lied, deceived, attempted to change the audience’s memories of the films for his many changing visions in the case of the OT.

He had the chance to make his Sequel Trilogy for many years, and chose not to, until his latest vision for the ST came to him circa 2012, with Leia now retconned to be made the Chosen One, not Anakin. No wonder the company he sold Star Wars to passed on it.
 

I won’t get into the first bit as I don’t want to have another argument.

However with the second part I find context matters again. He started working on it in circa 2011 before Disney came into the picture. He always said before selling that the Sequels weren’t ever as fleshed out. It makes sense they’d need some work with what he already had originally. He had the same approach with the Prequels but more to work with when doing them as he had already developed it a great deal. There’s no retcon with Leia being made the “Chosen One”. He didn’t necessarily mean it literally per say but merely it seems to be an extension of the Mortis story arc in The Clone Wars series. He was merely recontextualising the story and adding new meanings to things we knew partial information to. A story grows and evolves. This is natural.

Stardust1138 said:

Greetings all! It’s been awhile. Further details of George’s Sequels leaked from the upcoming book “The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005”.

Here George gives a greater context to the story of the trilogy he wanted to tell beyond what we’ve heard with regards to the Whills, Luke being in exile to find his spark again in Episode VII, and the son of Han and Leia falling to the Dark Side.

THE CHOSEN ONE

…

George Lucas: "Darth Maul trained a girl, Darth Talon, who was in the comic books as his apprentice. She was the new Darth Vader, and most of the action was with her. So these were the two main villains of the trilogy. Maul eventually becomes the godfather of crime in the universe because, as the Empire falls, he takes over.

The movies are about how Leia—I mean, who else is going to be the leader?—is trying to build the Republic. They still have the apparatus of the Republic but they have to get it under control from the gangsters. That was the main story.

It starts out a few years after Return of the Jedi and we establish pretty quickly that there’s this underworld, there are these offshoot stormtroopers who started their own planets, and that Luke is trying to restart the Jedi. He puts the word out, so out of 100,000 Jedi, maybe 50 or 100 are left. The Jedi have to grow again from scratch, so Luke has to find two- and three-year-olds, and train them. It’ll be 20 years before you have a new generation of Jedi.

By the end of the trilogy Luke would have rebuilt much of the Jedi, and we would have the renewal of the New Republic, with Leia, Senator Organa, becoming the Supreme Chancellor in charge of everything. So she ended up being the Chosen One."

Seem pretty literal, and from George’s own mouth.

I dont’t find it as literal as it may seem. I own the book the quote comes from. Different things mean different things just as it does within the book or a story. Context changes within different parts of the story being added to. Sometimes you have to dig deeper than only taking what is given to you at face value. The cake beneath the surface. He thought through his decisions and why he’d do them. He acted on intuition and knew what he felt was best for serving the stories he wanted to tell. He has a different approach to changing things than how fans take them to mean.

Again, the quotes above seems pretty literal, and are from George’s own mouth.

George is on record as retconning Leia to be the “Chosen One” in his 2012 ST treatments. That is just a simple fact.

I’ll take the facts at hand over someone’s highly personal interpretation of “context” on this.

If you want to believe otherwise that is up to you.
 

As someone on here once posted, and probably something to remember: “facts don’t cease to exist because they are ignored”.

No. You clearly said I was “pinpoint(ing) just Prequel fans”:

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Again:

ken-obi said:

“For years Prequel fans were silenced and told we were wrong for liking them. We were laughed at and smeared for not understanding Star Wars like those who grew up with the Original Trilogy.” - Stardust1138

No, the whataboutery doesn’t wash, or hold true. You may also want to look at the history of this forum and why it was formed.
 

Stardust1138 said:

Exactly what I’m saying. So no reason to pinpoint just Prequel fans at first as the only ones who can go a little far in how we all discuss the films.

Don’t put words in my mouth. This is something you have before, along with your insults. I didn’t pinpoint Prequels fans:

ken-obi said:

I also struggle to understand George and Prequel zealots’ narrow minded views of people not liking the Prequels is because “you just don’t understand them” or “no, you must watch X, Y, Z to understand George intent and his films”, or simply trying to work George into every post or thread they make. This seems to be a more recent occurrence online in general for PT discussions. Rarely ever talking about the what occurs onscreen, what they themselves actually enjoyed about the the PT, or adding anything new to the discussions, other than condescension and some veiled insults, and also derailing the original topic of the thread. I’m not talking about about the everyday regular Prequel fans or people who simply enjoy most things Star Wars, just the G&P zealots.

Quite clearly I said George & Prequel Zealots. Not everyday regular Prequel fans or those who enjoy most things Star Wars. I have bolded the parts above for you.

Stardust1138 said:

ken-obi said:

George has had many visions, re-wrote history, lied, deceived, attempted to change the audience’s memories of the films for his many changing visions in the case of the OT.

He had the chance to make his Sequel Trilogy for many years, and chose not to, until his latest vision for the ST came to him circa 2012, with Leia now retconned to be made the Chosen One, not Anakin. No wonder the company he sold Star Wars to passed on it.
 

I won’t get into the first bit as I don’t want to have another argument.

However with the second part I find context matters again. He started working on it in circa 2011 before Disney came into the picture. He always said before selling that the Sequels weren’t ever as fleshed out. It makes sense they’d need some work with what he already had originally. He had the same approach with the Prequels but more to work with when doing them as he had already developed it a great deal. There’s no retcon with Leia being made the “Chosen One”. He didn’t necessarily mean it literally per say but merely it seems to be an extension of the Mortis story arc in The Clone Wars series. He was merely recontextualising the story and adding new meanings to things we knew partial information to. A story grows and evolves. This is natural.

Stardust1138 said:

Greetings all! It’s been awhile. Further details of George’s Sequels leaked from the upcoming book “The Star Wars Archives: 1999-2005”.

Here George gives a greater context to the story of the trilogy he wanted to tell beyond what we’ve heard with regards to the Whills, Luke being in exile to find his spark again in Episode VII, and the son of Han and Leia falling to the Dark Side.

THE CHOSEN ONE

…

George Lucas: "Darth Maul trained a girl, Darth Talon, who was in the comic books as his apprentice. She was the new Darth Vader, and most of the action was with her. So these were the two main villains of the trilogy. Maul eventually becomes the godfather of crime in the universe because, as the Empire falls, he takes over.

The movies are about how Leia—I mean, who else is going to be the leader?—is trying to build the Republic. They still have the apparatus of the Republic but they have to get it under control from the gangsters. That was the main story.

It starts out a few years after Return of the Jedi and we establish pretty quickly that there’s this underworld, there are these offshoot stormtroopers who started their own planets, and that Luke is trying to restart the Jedi. He puts the word out, so out of 100,000 Jedi, maybe 50 or 100 are left. The Jedi have to grow again from scratch, so Luke has to find two- and three-year-olds, and train them. It’ll be 20 years before you have a new generation of Jedi.

By the end of the trilogy Luke would have rebuilt much of the Jedi, and we would have the renewal of the New Republic, with Leia, Senator Organa, becoming the Supreme Chancellor in charge of everything. So she ended up being the Chosen One."

Seem pretty literal, and from George’s own mouth.