This is looking great! As far as menus go you could always reuse the existing graphics from a previous DVD or BD release.
As far as a cover goes I've always thought this custom art print looked incredible: http://society6.com/chrsmrtn/alien-poster_print#1=45
Maybe I'm just being partial to my own preferences but the IC and IC/WP colors just seem so deep and powerful. There's something about the depth of contrast that seems to draw me in. The shot in Tyrell's office just looks gorgeous. I don't know a whole lot about color timing but they seem very rich in depth and fun to look at even if they may not necessarily be the correct color timing of the original 1982 theatrical presentation.
I just realized how difficult getting a score-only soundtrack may be. There are a few instances in the soundtrack that have dialogue over the score. Unless there is some bootleg release out there that has the dialogue omitted I wouldn't know how to remove it without noticeably effecting the audio quality.
For example, when Deckard enters Tyrell's office Rachel greets him, "Do you like our owl?" and that conversation is present in all of the score/soundtrack releases I've heard. I believe it occurs in other instances of the score as well where you can hear background noise and dialogue from the film.
In any case, if this were to be accomplished it would also mean getting a complete, no dialogue cut of the film score and that would be another first!
Wow how do you go about ripping from the SACD? Very cool!
This looks great! What about a 3rd audio track - score only? There are many bootleg scores available and I even have the SACD but am not sure how to rip that because of the DSD format. I'd like to help in any way I can as this is one of my favorite sci-fis!
SilverWook said:
Would the MUSE LD have a different mix though?
Has anyone investigated the HD DVD that came out only in Europe?
The MUSE LD looks to have a Dolby Surround track and was released in '93 so it's definitely worth looking in to: http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/00274/PILH-1001/Terminator-2:-Judgment-Day-(1991)
From what I'm reading the European HD-DVDs all seem to have DTS mixes so I can't imagine them being original.
_,,,^..^,,,_ said:
Disclord sadly left this world... we will miss him!
This is why an original 4.1 mix with the best BD picture needs to happen. It would be a great way to honor him!
Also, in case anyone wants to blow a few hundred: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-MSC-4000-HDVS-Terminator-2-Judgment-Day-MUSE-Hi-Vision-Laser-Disc-Decoder-/251650435378?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a9788e932
BDgeek said:
WOW, those Blade Runner BD caps with LD colors are just amazing!
Imagine a fixed BD color timing with LD PCM audio! (Now I'm hooked for this to become a future project)
This sounds awesome but which cut of the film would be theatrically correct - the original theatrical cut with narration, the '92 cut, the definitive cut? The definitive cut has only been released on BD and I trust those colors because that is what was intended by Ridley Scott but if we're talking about absolute original colors then I'd imagine we are also talking about the original cut and what that looked like in 1982.
The 1982 laserdisc is available on spleen so that could help as a reference.
I also wanted to ask about the picture quality that Disclord mentioned:
My partner saw T2 in CDS and says the Blu-ray finally gets the colors right, unlike the earlier discs. Of course, only the first DVD of T2 from Artisan used the 5.1 channel CDS mix - all other releases use the massively changed 6.1 mixes. So I have to sync the original DVD with the theatrical cut on the Blu-ray to get the CDS 70mm experience.
Which BD is he referencing that got the color timing correct - the first theatrical release from 2006? If that is the case then I am all for trying to sync the '98 Live 5.1 mix to the '06 BD picture but I have read that it is a nightmare to sync. I have not tried to verify if the same mix is used for the '06 theatrical BD but that would be interesting if it was because it would be at a much higher bitrate than what is on the Live DVD.
Also since the 5.1 Live mix allocates the surround mono channel from the original mix to both left and right you could simply join them back to 1 mono channel to recreate the original 4.1 mix. Am I wrong in thinking that?
dvdmike said:
Most CDS mixes were 4.0 or 4.1, I hope the guy with the cam, replies to me so we can put it to rest.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm under the impression the 35mm print that was being screened in that YouTube link you posted would be using the original Dolby track and not the CDS track. It seems to replay the CDS track, or to even get a hold of it, would take equipment that would be pretty scarce to come by nowadays?
This is an awesome release thank you for restoring it!
dvdmike said:
He changed the mix WAY before the 2000 dvd
Is there any more info on what he changed? If this is the case then the only ways to hear the actual CDS mix would be to find a print that has it and decode it to listen to at home or go back to 1991 and find a theater that had CDS set up. Sadly no theaters showed it in CDS in my area at the time and I wouldn't even remember how it would've sounded then.
Even if one were to obtain the CDS mix how would you go about hearing it nowadays? I believe the first home release of T2 was in December '91. Had Rydstrom already remixed the soundtrack for the VHS/laserdiscs then or did that not come until later releases?
After reading about how Gary Rydstrom went about remastering T2 for the 2000 Artisan Ultimate Edition DVD it turns out I'm completely wrong about the whole thing. Disclord mentioned:
The first T2 DVD of the theatrical cut from Artisan uses the same 5.1 channel mix that was prepared for the 70mm Kodak/ORC Cinema Digital Sound prints
After reading the interview with Rydstrom it turns out the CDS mix was referenced in the 1993 Dolby Surroung laserdisc LD68952-2DD and later reused as the source for the 1998 Artisan/Live R1 DVD 5.1 Dolby Surround track. Rydstrom took it a step further for the 2000 DVD and remixed the audio to take advantage of the Dolby EX format. So, straight from the man’s mouth Rydstrom confirmed the CDS mix was in fact the source. I apologize for the confusion!
double post
Great info thank you for that!
hairy_hen said:
Expecting a theatrical trailer to sound like the final version of a film soundtrack is an exercise in futility. It is highly unlikely the same sound effects would have been used, and extremely likely the trailer was not mixed by the same people.
Therefore, the existence of such differences proves nothing.
Also, Gary Rydstrom was the sound designer for the original mixes, not just the redone version.
I see no reason to doubt disclord's information that the early DVD used the CDS 5.1 master. Somebody should find a laserdisc PCM track of the Dolby Stereo version and see how that sounds—chances are it is pretty similar.
I read the '98 Live DVD used the same master as LD68952-2DD which features a remixed Dolby Surround track. However, the very first laserdisc release would be LD48864-4WS which may have the absolute original audio track.
Then again maybe there are no differences at all and the R1 Live DVD is definitive. I am just searching for reassurance that it is. I got a little excited after hearing the trailer and wanted to believe that soundtrack exists somewhere. Maybe my ears aren't as good as others but I can't help but not notice a difference, if at all, when comparing the Live DVD to the other editions.
dvdmike said:
I have all home LD and dvd/bd editions and none have the gunshots.
I did ask Van Ling if we can get the CDS mix even lossy on a new BD and he said it depends on space
I am blown away that even Van Ling would consider this. 23 years later and dozens of home releases and we still don't know what it was like to experience this movie in its definitive form at home. This is reaching Star Wars level.
I'm very curious as to what more Van Ling has to say about this? To my understanding, he was the supervisor for the more recent "ultimate" and "extreme" home releases of this film. The idea that you were even able to get in contact with him over this is great. Why has the CDS mix been avoided for so long?
Again, the sound effects in the trailer sound much better than what's in any release of the film for home viewing. Just listen to 1:30 - 1:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajuMYNYtuY when the T-1000 slips through the prison bars... the home releases sound boring compared to that... DD or DTS all of them. Then, listen to any sample of gunfire from the trailer. Why "remaster" that with whatever Gary Rydstrom did? What was the goal?
None of the multi-channel mixes sound as good as the simple stereo theatrical trailer from 1991... that says a lot. Do any of the older VHS tapes use the CDS mix? I wish I had some on hand to find out.
dvdmike said:
I have a great memory for colour and sound, and I still remember the gunshots in the the lift scene to be like the trailer, not the crappy "silenced" ones on the Live dvd
Great, I was hoping I wasn't the only one that thought that. But this makes me wonder... what was disclord referencing when he spoke of the CDS mix being on the Artisan Live R1 DVD?
http://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2338&start=20
The Artisan Live mix seems to sound like all of the others and not what is heard in the theatrical trailer. Do any of the older laserdisc copies use the CDS master in the Dolby Stereo/Surround tracks?
If it turns out that the CDS mix actually wasn't used on any of the laserdiscs or DVDs then it would take hunting down the actual film of the CDS print and the decoder to go along with it. Nothing is impossible but that sure sounds like quite a feat. I would give much to see the film with the original CDS mix sync'd to a 1080p theatrical cut on Blu-Ray!
I can bid on the theatrical trailer if no one here is already and would like to help in any way I can.
dvdmike said:
I have a great memory for colour and sound, and I still remember the gunshots in the the lift scene to be like the trailer, not the crappy "silenced" ones on the Live dvd
Great, I was hoping I wasn't the only one that thought that. But this makes me wonder... what was disclord referencing when he spoke of the CDS mix being on the Artisan Live R1 DVD?
http://forum.lddb.com/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2338&start=20
The Artisan Live mix seems to sound like all of the others and not what is heard in the theatrical trailer. Do any of the older laserdisc copies use the CDS master in the Dolby Stereo/Surround tracks?
If it turns out that the CDS mix actually wasn't used on any of the laserdiscs or DVDs then it would take hunting down the actual film of the CDS print and the decoder to go along with it. Nothing is impossible but that sure sounds like quite a feat. I would give much to see the film with the original CDS mix sync'd to a 1080p theatrical cut on Blu-Ray!
I can bid on the theatrical trailer if no one here is already and would like to help in any way I can.
I was going to make a thread about this when I stumbled upon this one. I too have been searching for the CDS mix and ended up getting a hold of the original LIVE 1998 R1 DVD. While it does sound great how can we be sure this is the CDS mix? I've read around and it has been claimed to be it but I was under the impression it would use the same sound effects from the official theatrical trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eajuMYNYtuY
I know it's just a compressed mp3 for YouTube but there is something about the sound in that trailer that feels more dynamic and explosive even if it may not be natural or full of fidelity. The audio for that trailer very well could have just been made specifically for a promo but I like to believe the real CDS mix would sound like that. Listen to the shotgun blasts, the explosions, and especially the shots fired by the T-1000 at 1:36 - they sound like they have more punch than what is in the actual Live DVD or any other release.
On a side note, I noticed there are 2 versions of the '98 R1 DVD - a snapcase with LIVE on the side bottom and lower right bottom of the front and a plastic standard DVD case with ARTISAN in place. Both come with the exact same disc catalog # 60441. I wasn't sure if maybe one release may have been different than the other but it turns out the only difference is the case.
Also, here is a fun read regarding the sound design of the film:
I'm very sorry to hear this. I had messaged him through AVS and he never got back to me. I just figured he was very busy. I was asking him about the T2 CDS mix and he seemed to know so much about the format.
drngr said:
People on the LDDB forum already compared "The Matrix" LD's color timing to the first DVD; it's the same. Sorry you missed the news.
Thanks for the heads up I wasn't aware. I was having a tough time getting my equipment setup this weekend and this saved me some of the trouble.
Thank you for your help kk650. I was meaning to thank you as well for your DTS Matrix release. It sounds great!
I am in the process of providing a copy of The Matrix laserdisc to another user for review to compare to the DVD and other editions to see if it is worth referencing for a regrade. I'll be taking screenshot comparisons this weekend if I can manage to get my laserdisc player hooked up to my PC for capture. I'm using a Yamaha CDV-W901. I hope it is sufficient for at least providing appropriate quality screenshots... It's no MUSE player :|
I was able to get a hold of this and am curious if this still requires the +8950 delay for the 2013 US bluray or will it mux just fine as quoted above "It will work with any remastered version of the new Blu-ray released worldwide [2012-2013 releases]."
Thank you!!