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jinxfan2

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27-Feb-2021
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9-Aug-2022
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Post
#1483558
Topic
4K77 v1.0 vs 4K77 v1.4 - Why the different color grades?
Time

CatBus said:

jinxfan2 said:

CatBus said:

Everyone’s got their opinions, and not only that, but the films had more than one look. For example, Technicolor prints from that era have a distinctive yellow-greenish cast, other prints would look different. So one person could be trying to match the Technicolor look, someone else may be trying to match a different color reference, another person might be just trying for a balanced neutral look, and so on. These prints are old and I believe they require significant color correction, although others would disagree strongly.

As far as which one comes out on top, you’re going to have to ask someone else. I’m not actually a big 4K77 fan (although 2.0 looks like it might be okay), but for 4K83 I like the results of the 4K83 Remastered project.

I get that. It’s a very interesting thing. I think both are nice. I had a weird experience viewing for example, viewing 4K83 v1.6 last night. I have a 4k TV. So, I felt 1.6 had these pale colors on my PC monitor (and it does, to be fair.) But then I saw something truly amazing. The shot where it focuses on Palpatine sitting on the throne in the death star, and the stars surround him. I finally saw the illusion in effect! (This is hard to explain, I suggest trying it, late at night, with a 4k monitor in the house, and seeing that image glow, it’s truly enigmatic but beautiful.) It felt like they were really behind him! Like oh my god, I don’t see a special effect, it looks like he’s in SPACE. It was truly mystifying. I guess all these variations have different purposes and therefore, different effects really.

A common complaint (that I share) about 1.6 is that its colors are a little dull/flat, which may be what you’re describing, and remastered addresses this. You may want to give that a shot.

I don’t have an invite code to the other forums sadly. But what’s the difference between 1.6 vs Remastered?

Post
#1483539
Topic
4K77 v1.0 vs 4K77 v1.4 - Why the different color grades?
Time

CatBus said:

Everyone’s got their opinions, and not only that, but the films had more than one look. For example, Technicolor prints from that era have a distinctive yellow-greenish cast, other prints would look different. So one person could be trying to match the Technicolor look, someone else may be trying to match a different color reference, another person might be just trying for a balanced neutral look, and so on. These prints are old and I believe they require significant color correction, although others would disagree strongly.

As far as which one comes out on top, you’re going to have to ask someone else. I’m not actually a big 4K77 fan (although 2.0 looks like it might be okay), but for 4K83 I like the results of the 4K83 Remastered project.

I get that. It’s a very interesting thing. I think both are nice. I had a weird experience viewing for example, viewing 4K83 v1.6 last night. I have a 4k TV. So, I felt 1.6 had these pale colors on my PC monitor (and it does, to be fair.) But then I saw something truly amazing. The shot where it focuses on Palpatine sitting on the throne in the death star, and the stars surround him. I finally saw the illusion in effect! (This is hard to explain, I suggest trying it, late at night, with a 4k monitor in the house, and seeing that image glow, it’s truly enigmatic but beautiful.) It felt like they were really behind him! Like oh my god, I don’t see a special effect, it looks like he’s in SPACE. It was truly mystifying. I guess all these variations have different purposes and therefore, different effects really.

Post
#1483532
Topic
4K77 v1.0 vs 4K77 v1.4 - Why the different color grades?
Time

CatBus said:

Version numbers on 4K77 aren’t iterations, they’re variations. In other words, 1.6 is NOT considered to be the latest and greatest, just a different “branch” following a different color correction approach. 1.4 is also a branch which is just as current in its own way, just with different color correction. The biggest difference between any of these versions is typically the colors.

It takes a little getting used to. In other projects and software, higher numbers are always the version to get, superseding previous versions. Not so with 4Kxx. Although major version changes (i.e. 2.0) may indicate something worth forgetting about previous versions for.

It’s anarchy, sheer anarchy 😉

I got that, but I was wondering, why different people had different color grades of 4k77? Having seen 1.0, the green technicolor is really beautiful, although a bit distracting with some crushed blacks and all. However, 1.4 seems to have more of a natural/blue-ish tint to it. Is one more faithful to the theatrical experience? All of this I wonder, as I wish to show these versions to friends/family one day and say, ‘‘this is the way they saw it back in the day’’. But which one? lol

Post
#1479498
Topic
The Darker tone of Revenge of the Sith - But why?
Time

ken-obi said:

Interesting links there jinxfan2, I enjoyed reading them.

You could be right on Spielberg having an influence, but I would have thought the influence may have gone the other way. Both filmmakers at the time were parents bringing up young impressionable kids and possibly not wanting them to see violence in their films depicted in a certain way. Both directors made changes to their earlier work in a bid to attempt to remedy that.

For George, Han no longer shooting first; George’s disproven claims which even people who worked on the 1997 Specials Editions don’t believe. And the later bullshit ‘we didn’t kill many people in these films’ claim too.

For Spielberg, the replacement of guns with walkie-talkies in ET. Which he would later change back some time afterwards.
 

It is an interesting point you bring up, and something to think on.

To me, most of the darker content in ROTS appears after Anakin pledges his allegiance to Palpatine. Anakin’s about-turn to the Sith is abrupt and baffling. In the space of one scene, Anakin goes from being a disgruntled but loyal Jedi to child-slaughtering evil. He does this because of his visions of Padme dying during childbirth, and Palpatine just happens to mention that an old Sith once learnt how to prevent death. This enough enough for Anakin, and he quickly joins the dark side. Within a few scenes, Anakin is Force-choking a pregnant Padme, the woman he did all this to protect. That’s not good storytelling.

The child-killing, then choking pregnant wife, and finally being burnt alive in his fight vs Obi-Wan: all three occur quite quickly in the film. Huh, that is something indeed to think on, I think I’d have to re-watch ROTS again before commenting more (look what you made me do! lol). When I think of more I’ll post it in here.

What are your thoughts on it jinxfan2?

Does anyone know if there more behind the scene videos which also cover the filming of these scenes, to see if others also had some input on the tone and content for these scenes, how they were filmed, or where George talks about the higher age rating for ROTS (and why)?

Well, I don’t know all of the answers to what you’re asking, not sure if anyone does (hence why I made the thread), but I do agree that it’s rushed. But it’s interesting to note that much of ROTS was surprisingly outlined in the 80s, although its story beats vary from the final product. There’s an article here that quotes a transcript between Kasdan and GL in 1981 (prior to ROTJ) when discussing ROTS and the prequels. Good quote here: ''On his missions through the galaxies, Anakin has been going off doing his Jedi thing and a lot of Jedi have been getting killed—and it’s because they turn their back on him and he cuts them down. The president is turning into an Emperor and Luke’s mother suspects that something has happened to her husband. She is pregnant. Anakin gets worse and worse, and finally Ben has to fight him and he throws him down into a volcano and Vader is all beat up.

Now, when he falls into the pit, his other arm goes and his leg and there is hardly anything left of him by the time the Emperor’s troops fish him out of the drink. Then when Ben finds out that Vader has been fished out and is in the hands of the Empire, he is worried about it. He goes back to Vader’s wife and explains that Anakin is the bad guy, the one killing all the Jedi.‘’ https://www.huffpost.com/entry/star-wars-prequels-return-of-the-jedi_n_3313793

Obviously, it seems GL didn’t intend for Padme to die but…she does in the movie. Which would have tied back into ROTJ when Leia remembers her mother if Padme lived, so oh well. It seems as if, if I had to guess, the first half of ROTS is mostly filler to set up the eventual canon outline that George had set up. But the way it’s described in this quote, it feels slower, and that Anakin does not become Vader at the end of the movie, but by the end of the third act seemingly.

Many feel ROTS is the best prequel, and while it does have a tragic and dramatic story, I feel its overly fast paced story does not do it justice, though it does improve it to an extent. Phantom Menace has better structure in terms of a story imo.

To me, the seeds of ROTS’ were laid in ROTJ, I mean the film has many visual parallels (Mace electrocuted the hands of the Emperor, Anakin betrays, turns into Vader - Luke electrocuted by Emperor, Vader betrays turns into Anakin) and even the title parallels it. George was seemingly going to connect them more seamlessly by outlining the dark and dramatic events, so they could tie into each other and therefore flow. But the end product is still dramatic but not consistent in pacing.

That’s one reason, although I am more curious about the in depth process of it.

Post
#1479123
Topic
What is your main way of watching the Original Trilogy?
Time

Not sure if helpful but here’s mine:

ANH - 4K77 DNR v1.0 (I know it’s outdated, but I like the color grading, I like the film grain, the crackles that make it look it’s from a projection print, the superb 4K image quality. It’s perfect. It IS Star Wars. I think personally, TN1 SSE is a good runner up. I know the colors, as it had it explained to me are not accurate and the scan of is of adequate quality, but that’s somewhat why I like it. It looks like an amateur film print you’d find in a storage locker and then project it with friends, like a lost artifact from long ago. It also reminds me of a version of SW that exists in another timeline, where something was not lovingly restored, let’s say it bombed at the box office and Fox just transferred a dupe they had lying around. SSE is what that release would look like imo, but 4K77 to me, it’s the purist way to see that film.

ESB - This is a tough one. The BETA 1 of 4K80 looks astonishing, but I gotta hand it to D+80. The color grading is quite nice. Has some footage of TN1 Renegade Dreamaster spliced in, great audio options. It’s my go to version for now. 4K80 is seemingly going to be my definitive version. I’m not a fan of DE 2.0. It has a few color grading errors. See example here: https://i.imgur.com/mkOQzcf.png

ROTJ - 4K83 for authenticity, but I have to hand it to OTD83. It looks stunning, I’m just a purist when it comes to the OT. So 4K83 feels more true to me, but the mix of 35MM shots and 4k UHD footage adds an excellent mix and fixes some of the VFX errors the 1983 version had.

Post
#1479120
Topic
The Darker tone of Revenge of the Sith - But why?
Time

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/George-Lucas-Star-Wars-Creator-Unreliable-Narrator-Time-Travelling-Revisionist/id/66986

I recently read on this informative thread about how Lucas seemed to be more oriented with light hearted stories and toy sales, which definitely explains ROTJ, TPM, and films he had a lot of control in. But something I noticed is, this seemingly does not explain why Revenge of the Sith is a darker film with a lot of taboo subject matter.

George has been on record to say that he believes SW is a franchise aimed towards children, and the tone of his mostly controlled movies reflect that. However, Revenge of the sith seemingly contradicts this line of thinking. I mean it seems odd to have a movie aimed for kids that has Anakin…killing kids lol
‘‘Star Wars is basically a serial for children - that’s what it’s always been" (Hoffmann, 1999: 7).’’ -GL
https://web.archive.org/web/20180422062130/https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/scope/documents/2001/december-2001/kramer.pdf

Even so, some of the imagery in ROTS is more along the lines of horrifying, Anakin being burned alive as one of many examples. All of this makes for great drama, but why does ROTS seem to be a reversal of these beliefs that George had in mind?

Was there another chef in the kitchen so to speak? Did George try to do something out of his comfort zone?
Doing some research, I found an article that said Spielberg helped with some of the shots in ROTS https://web.archive.org/web/20050405211953/https://www.starwars.com/episode-iii/release/publishing/f20050330/indexp6.html

So is Spielberg to thank? Or is there another factor at play? Hope someone can help clarify and/or speculate, thanks!

Post
#1477591
Topic
Question about 4K77 vs TN1 SSE
Time

Thank you, this explains a lot but it also complicates a lot. I seem to like 4K77 more as a middle ground for me. I like the bright colors and the green tint, it feels unfiltered but at the same time very cartoony, like the film itself. But SSE, I like how faded and more pale it looks.

I guess my final question is, how come the visual quality of SSE seemingly has more grain? I looked at 4k77, then SSE, and 4K77 (despite being scanned at a higher resolution and all) has much more detail and SSE feels more raw. I read somewhere online (don’t butcher me if I’m wrong here), that SSE was based on a third generation print, while 4K77 was based on second generation? Would that be correct, or am I mistaken here?

(I admire the ambition behind this community and TN1 but man all of this is hard to digest sometimes lol)

Post
#1477527
Topic
Question about 4K77 vs TN1 SSE
Time

From what I understand, TN1 SSE is from the 35mm LPP Film print, 4K77 is the same thing except it uses Technicolor and other prints, which means 4K77 is like the superior version compared to SSE

My question is, is SSE more accurate to what an older copy of the film looked like, and then 4k77 is what it likely looked like, brand new in a 1977 theater? Just wondering the difference between the two and why they have different color grading. Hope one can clarify. Thanks.