itsatrap

Oh no, cutnshut -- everybody here has been nothing but helpful! It was great to get feedback so quickly, and the ideas that were generated in this thread were terrific.

Spence's edit suffered because he didn't ask for input before releasing it. I wanted to go the opposite route and collaborate with the OT community before I went too far. And the more I talked it out, the more it looked like my ideas weren't going to work. 

But like I said, maybe something here will inspire a bolder editor than me. :)

skye1083 said:

Is there supposed to be a back up Rebel team hiding in the forest? My initial reaction was that C3PO popping up was all that was needed to distract the troopers, which seems silly. Han Solo would have knocked out one trooper and then would have been shot by three others. The second viewing showed a lone Rebel outside the circle. What causes all of the Imperials to scatter and not attack Han and company?

Yeah, I was wondering if people thought that. If that edit doesn't work, the rest probably won't, either. This version depends on the viewer believing that Han and friends could overtake the Stormtroopers without help.

Maybe it needs a composited shot of the Rebels jumping out after 3PO's "We surrender!" line, but I'm at a loss on how to do that.

And aside from a few nice comments here, there doesn't seem to be much interest in this project, and my enthusiasm for it is waning as well.  I'll leave this as a fun thought experiment -- maybe it'll spark ideas for other editors out there in the future.

mrbenja0618 said:

Is there a place we can read about Possessed's edit?

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Possessed-edit-of-ROTJ-Preview-available-now/topic/11665/

Can't argue with that. I know Possessed is working an edit that's makes the Ewoks look less cutesy and more like warriors, so that may suit some tastes better. Personally, I'd rather just be rid of them altogether, so my (less ambitious) edit will cater to those who have that simple preference.

And I'd love to get rid of the brother/sister thing, but that would alter the whole Vader-goading-Luke-into-fighting bit, which is one of the few scenes I actually like. 

So this will just be about the elimination of Ewoks, and making the movie work without them.

Sure, but there's really only two parts where the music needed to be changed, and that approached worked for me.  Your mileage may vary.

But a little fade-in/out at the edges of the dialogue, with an extra layer of music can do a lot. (Case in point, mash-up DJs rarely work with perfectly clean samples.)

Actually, I found out how to do that by searching the forums here. Moth3r's post on it sums it up:

With 5.1 audio, dialogue in the centre channel, it can be done with BeSweet by decoding into separate WAVs and extracting just the front left and front right channels. You will be left with music and effects, but dialogue should be mostly gone.

BeSweet (which is free, but a pain in the ass to set up) can take a .VOB file and (provided that it's 5.1 audio) output six WAV files: one of them being mostly dialogue. It's not perfect, as there's still some faint music on the track, but you can cover that up by mixing in some John Williams on top.

So in my editor, my audio layers are:
* The original audio
* The BeSweet extracted dialogue track
* The ROTJ soundtrack synced with the film

I've tried the alternate 'Sail Barge Assault' track for the first scene, but I didn't think it had the right amount of heft. I may give it a shot again later.

Anyone else have any objections to the preview? Or -- dare I ask -- like it?

While we're on the subject, I've noticed Moth3r's pinned list of fan edits mentions CowboyPriest's "No Ewok" version of Episode VI. I can't find any information about this whatsoever. Has anyone seen it, or know how it was done?

I know you've said the youtube clip is only a rough cut but the music really brings me out of the segment. Lando's space battle with Empire's Han & Leia's love theme playing for example.

That's understandable. I put those two scenes up because they'll be the biggest deviations from the original film. I think it's the cleanest way to do it, but the soundtrack as-is doesn't work -- because the characters resolve the situation right then and there, it needed to have climactic music to match it. 

The music was used to mirror the R2-opening-the-Cloud-City-doors scene in ESB. I pushed it into the previous scene to make the music flow better, as it'd be too jarring otherwise. 

Are there any other recommendations for music? I may try other choices if anything strikes me as an improvement. 

Those are great ideas, Bingowings! Cutting those definitely keeps the bridge out of the shot, and improves the story significantly.

One possibility would be to simply zoom in the footage to get it a tighter two-shot, hiding the torches and (most) of the bridge. 

If you watch this crummy version here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hthKf434YRU

(from 7:36 onward)

...with this aspect ratio, a lot of the setting just looks like "ambiguous forest area" when it's tighter. 

If the only troops there are the ones that would be guarding the base if the Rebels had accurate intelligence didn't Luke let that cat out of the bag himself by handing himself over to Vader?

Sorry, but could you clarify what you're saying here? I didn't cut the scene where Luke talks to Leia about turning himself in. I only replaced the establishing shot. Correct me if I'm wrong, whatever motivations he has doesn't change whether or not there were Ewoks.

But I could be wrong. 

That's a great point. I forgot to mention that I was going to take out that line by the Emperor.

EMPEROR 
Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design. Your friends up there on the Sanctuary Moon...

Luke reacts. The Emperor notes it.

EMPEROR (cont)
...are walking into a trap. As is your Rebel fleet! It was I who allowed the Alliance to know the location of the shield generator. It is quite safe from your pitiful little band. [CUT: An entire legion of my best troops awaits them. ]

Luke's look darts from the Emperor to Vader and, finally, to the
sword in the Emperor's hand.

EMPEROR
Oh...I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive.

 I think it's enough to smooth it over, and it makes Luke react to the shock that the Emperor planned this all along.

Are there any other inconsistencies that my edit would cause? This is why I decided to ask the wise people here before going any further.

I'm working on an edit that removes all the Ewoks in 'Return of the Jedi.' To be honest, I don't have a huge problem with Ewoks, but getting rid of them without disrupting the plot sounds like a fun editing challenge. I know this has been attempted before -- for instance, the somewhat controversial Spence Edit -- so how does my edit differ?

One major difference is that I've isolated the dialogue from the score, so I was able to chop and rearrange the Endor scenes without it be too jarring.

But what about the Ewoks who take out the AT-ST Walkers? Or the Ewoks who help the Rebels fight the scores of Stormtroopers? Without them, the plot doesn't make sense.

That's why I've significantly abridged the battle.  Every wide shot revealing a shitload of Stormtroopers and/or AT-ST Walkers (aside from the one whose pilot gets shot by Leia) are removed -- meaning the Rebels are more evenly matched.

3PO's "Are you looking for me?" bit is now edited to look like a diversion that gives the Rebels an opportunity to strike the (now) evenly matched Imperial soldiers. And when R2 tries to unlock the entry to the shield generator, it's edited to show that he's successful. The music around these scenes have been changed to accommodate transitions and make them properly dramatic.

And, just like that, the Rebels are able to blow up the shield generator without any help.

Here's a very rough preview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZiVphpQ_Qc

(It's missing some sound and it's not fully cut properly to the music, but you get the idea.)

Other Ewok-related cuts include the post-speeder chase scenes. The whole "Where's Leia?" mystery and the subsequent introduction to the Ewoks (such as Chewie and the gang being captured) are cut. I added an establishing shot of Endor's forest, suggesting that the next scene (Luke and Leia's conversation) takes place on a Rebel camp.

Some of the initial run up to the shield generator is kept, but the parts involving the four moronic Stormtrooper guards are cut (such as the Ewok hopping on the speeder and Han doing the "Hey, look at me!" maneuver). I always found this part to be hilariously stupid, so we'll just go directly to the heroes falling into the Emperor's trap.

And 'Yub Nub' is obviously out. The "other worlds" celebration is in, but all the dancing Ewoks are cut. The Sebastian Shaw ghost is kept (from the ADigitalMan edition), and is the last shot of the film.

Thoughts?

Thanks for posting these! Easily my favorite of the officially released covers.