}{eywood

TV's Frink said:

The only way to solve this argument is to have everyone watch a live staging of ANH:R and compare it to the HD version.

Brilliant idea, Frink! I'm totally for that! The only problem would be getting Harrison to attend. Oh yeah, and reanimating Guinness. Maybe we could insert some musical numbers and do Star Wars on Broadway.

Star Wars....nothing but Star Wars....

I'm not trolling.  Been reading here for years, just don't often see anything worth commenting on. Wait.  That's wrong.  Haven't seen anything that I could saay something that hasn't already been said.  That's better. My personal feeling is there's no need to have a TV that big. I prefer to move my eyes when looking at an image, not my whole head. And my eyes are just fine.  A bit nearsighted, but no distance problems. I can't really explain why TV looks too crisp to me. It just does. Maybe it's the lack of dimensional depth. Faraway things don't look as detailed to my eyes as they do on a screen, but maybe because they're not far away on a screen. Also, maybe data compression algorhythms and how they select what data to change based on movement, etc. has something to do with it. I really wasn't trying to start an argument here.

I certainly was not kidding.  I think HD looks artificial, like CGI looked before they figured out they needed to add motion blur to the frames. I also think people are sporting too much bling with these ridiculously large televisions. Half the reason we have to have everything in HD is the enormous screen sizes.  The other half is flatscreens automatically make everything look like shit.  I'll stick to CRT screens, which I am completely satisfied with the quality of, until I can't find them anymore.  Better that than have to replace my entire video collection with one that's twice as big but has no more content

I'm with you, Ady. If everyone didn't feel the need to have TVs the size of box trucks we wouldn't need all this HD crap.  We were happy when a 27" was considered huge. To me HD is a big waste of space.  To watch HD is painful to me because reality doesn't have edges that sharp, why should my TV shows?  I'll likely download your newest version when finished for the editing upgrades, rip it, and convert it down to 480p, with which I'll be quite satisfied.

xxtelecine 7xx said:

People will wait days for a download of your edit...

Dude, we've been waiting years

kaufman316 said:

Bingowings said:

AR:SE:HD?

This acronym just gets ruder and more Scottish with each new iteration  :-D

 What about AR:SE:PAL for a proper Scottish transfer?

 It seems to me that once an HD version is completed the NTSC vs. PAL thing is no longer an issue.  Besides, who wants to go through all the trouble to make something like this just to crank it up so it plays too fast and all the music is off key just so a Pal version can exist?

oh_riginal said:

ray_afraid said:

oh_riginal said:

regularjoe said:

I'm really glad to hear that the next version has the repaired version of the scene.  One is able argue either way for the flow of the structure of the scene based on how it is played out, for me the issue is continuity.  As a twelve year old kid I was noticing that C3PO's behavior was not consistent throughout the scene and it has always been a speed bump watching the scene.

 My main issue with the scene is how it makes Obi Wan appear in his intentions.

In the theatrical cut, Obi Wan plays catch up with Luke before checking out the message from Leia. In Ady's version (which restores the edit to how it was scripted), Obi Wan plays the message first, then butters Luke up with the intention to talk him into joining him.

To me, this makes it seem that his small talk with Luke is manipulative, and that he only wants to hustle Luke into helping him, if that makes sense.

In the theatrical cut, with the small talk coming first, it makes it feel more like Obi Wan is genuinely interested in catching up with Luke before getting to business with R2-D2. To me, this makes Obi Wan seem like a true friend to Luke, since he had no ulterior motive to make him want to have a friendly talk.

I don't know if the way I'm explaining it makes sense, as I've tried to tell others why I prefer the theatrical edit to Ady's in this one instance, but it's rare that anyone seems to agree with me on my reasons.

If I had Adywan's talents, I would rather attempt to fix the continuity of C-3PO without changing the edit of the scene, rather than change it back to the script version. Unfortunately, that is not within my skills as an editor.

Okay, just wanted to throw in my two cents on this topic. Thanks for reading.

I think you've got Obi-Wans motivations right.
But he isn't Lukes old friend. He's been waiting to get Luke involved since his birth. That's why he's hiding on Tatooine. So the way Ady has the scene play out makes perfect sense to me.
Obi-Wan is a bit manipulative. That's why Luke isn't sure who to trust by the end of ESB. Luke even calls Obi-Wan out on it in ROTJ.

 He comes off as manipulative either way, from a trilogy standpoint. My issue is that he comes off as OBVIOUSLY manipulative, to the point that I don't like Obi Wan as soon as the hut scene has concluded. I know this may sound strange coming from someone who has seen the movie countless times, but it's true.

To me, it's like seeing a kid getting hustled in the street. I want someone to come and tell Luke "hey, don't listen to this guy, he just wants to use you."

I didn't get this feeling from the original edit. To me it went like this (in a way):

Obi Wan: Hey, I knew your dad! I don't want to get into it, but we used to be good friends. Hey, want this lightsaber? You ever heard of the Force?

Then they watch Leia's message...

Obi Wan: Well, I'm an old man. I'm gonna need help to save her. Let's go!

Luke: No.

Obi Wan: Well hey, I understand. Gotta listen to your instincts. Even if they belong to your uncle.

In the other edit, it plays like this to me:

Obi Wan: You're lucky I showed up to help you. Let's check out this video then you can be on your way.

Then they watch Leia's message...

Obi Wan: Hmm... so, hey buddy, check out this lightsaber. Want some candy to go with that? The Force will make you the ultimate badass. I should know, I was a Jedi before too. So was your dad. Like father, like son, right? Yeah... so anyway, I need you to come to Alderaan.

Luke: No.

Obi Wan: Oh, that's just your uncle talking. Whatever.

I said it before, I'm in the minority for preferring the scene as originally released. Even if Obi Wan IS manipulative to a degree, I never felt like he was NOT a friend to Luke, even if he lied to him. The rearranged edit changes that for me, unfortunately. It's a small detail, but one that affects me across a trilogy. A far more extreme example would be Han shooting Greedo, then changed by Lucas to Greedo shooting first. To me, this edit is like that, but less obvious to most people. Everything else in ANH:R works as close to perfect as possible, though.

 See, I look at is from an overall POV (this means including the prequels), and basically I think Obi-Wan is a dick all through. He's a dick to Qui Gon, he's a dick to Anakin, he's a dick to Yoda, he pretty much single handedly started the Clone Wars, so in keeping with his character he pretty much needs to be a dick to Luke.  The guy is a government...ahem, Jedi council...spy and assassin.  He's not a nice guy.  This is why it works better Ady's way.  The one good thing he does in his life is to sacrifice himself for the greater good, a concept I think he just got a grip on when Alderaan was destroyed.

Skippy The Jedi Droid said:

All of you probably remember this scene where the Tie Fighter explodes:

Did you ever wish that this explosion would have been the Death Star explosion. I did. It looks much more realistic and bigger and cooler and... and... well... yeah :D

It's funny how that little Tie Fighter could explode like that and Death Star's explosion looked so tame compared to it.

 I believe I mentioned this earlier in the thread but was shot down due to issues of perspective, but yeah I still agree

emanswfan said:

I always like that the duel was mellow, because Star Wars was the movie introducing us to this amazing new universe.  It didn't have to be big yet, that could be saved to get bigger for the latter instalments. 

 Although in retrospect it seems like that was the intent, I'm sure it had more to do with the fight being between a 63 year old man and a guy wearing a suit made of metal and car upholstery

I don't notice any vast improvement in Vader's swordfighting between ANH and ESB.  When the duel starts Luke is swinging all over and pretty active while Vader just stands there and fights essentially by only moving his elbows.  Now that can be seen from two sides:  he's a slow old guy or he's just so damn good that Luke ain't shit to him. Turns out he's just a slow old guy cuz Luke hits him in the shoulder.

One of the novels says that his suit is so damn heavy and awkward that he has to use the force just to move.  This was intentional on the Emperor's part.  The  bad suit slows Vader down and makes him less likely to overpower Palpatine, plus he's never able to use the force to his full potential because he's always got some of it (and his attention) focused on the suit.  Otherwise he'd just kill the Emperor and take over like it was nothing.  He actually needs Luke's help to do it because the suit's so unwieldy.

Truth is Prowse could barely move in the thing, so fancy swordsmanship wasn't really possible.

Hang on...isn't it someone else in the suit for parts of the Empire fight?  Maybe out on the catwalk where he actually moves around

Yeah I don't like those shots at all.  They show the same problems all the SE's show.  Too much blue tinting in everything.  Obi Wan's tunic isn't white, it's cream colored.  I doubt there's be anything white on Tatooine what with all the dust.  The coloring in those pics is trying to make everything look clean and modern, but Tattooine is a dust bowl.  Everything on the whole planet should be shades of brown, not blue

Just had to say how much I laughed at this thing.  I guess I'm a bit late to the party, but I just watched it and was on the floor for a great deal of it.

The cutaway's to "not there are two of them!" throughout the film are hilarious, especially in scenes where he is not even there (I'm Queen Amidala.  This is my decoy"  "Now there are two of them!)"

I only wish Sam Jackson's swearing had been punched in from another film rather than implied.  Any opportunity for him to look at Yoda and say "English, motherfucker!  do you speak it?" is welcome to me.

I'm not sure of what you are getting at with Obi-Wan speaking of himself in the third person.  It's funny, but I don't actually get it.

All in all a great work, Frink.

Reegar said:

Bingowings said:

It's worth experimenting with if someone has the time but to be honest I find JEJ's performance in ROTJ needs a bit of a lift as it's a bit too rumbly for my taste.

 The radio drama Vader of ROTJ was better than JEJ in the film.

JEJ sounded bored or on sedatives.

 Strange.  Brock Peters sounds like that all the time to me

I agree with that about the recording quality.  I also prefer the richer tone of the later films.  I just don't like the artificial deepening of the voice.  Here's a sample of a few lines from the beginnings of ESB and ROTJ pitched back to JEJ's real voice.  I did this really quick, so the music is still there and there are artifacts.  Just an experiment.

http://depositfiles.com/files/ecuxfg1cb

I'll take a stab at correcting a few lines of his dialogue here and there and post links to samples...see what the forum thinks

To me it's not a matter of speed (although the fury that amount of urgency invests is good for the character), it's more the pitch that bothers me.  His voice is artificially deepened either by use of a harmonizer or slowing the tape down (I'm not sure which.  Ben Burtt doesn't return my calls).  I prefer the real voice to the phonied up one, although the helmet thing isn't really something I had entered into my equation.

I'd be happy to do the repitching for the things if that'd help.  I am an experienced audio engineer, and something like that is a piece of cake to me.  Also, it doesn't really need to be done to every line.  A lot of ESB is OK.  ROTJ is the one that is most out of line

emanswfan said:

}{eywood said:

I'm not sure if this has been addressed at all before, and if it has I'm sorry to bring it up, but I need to know if something is going to be done to make Vader's voice uniform throughout the films.  His voice in ANH is to me the most menacing.  In the sequels it is deeper (slowed down?  Harmonizer?) and sounds contrived and phony.  Picture "Commander tear this ship apart until you've found those plans, and bring me the passengers. I want them alive!" done with the ROTJ voice.  It just wouldn't work.  Is it possible to repitch his voice in the sequels to more properly match the way it sounds in ANH?

I'm very certain Ady did lots of tweaking to the ANH Vader voice to make it match better with the other two films.

And that (making the ANH voice sound phony and artificially pitch manipulated) is the exact opposite of what should have been done.  The ESB and ROTJ voices are the ones that should have been tweaked back to James' real voice.

I personally love the TIE reveal and the Imperial March.  Whether Tarkin is there or not is really no matter to me as long as the explosion remains the same.  What distresses me is the thought that the Death Star reveal is going to be changed.  That is my single most favorite shot in the entire film.  When I show ANH:R to friends that is the shot I use to illustrate the degree of sophistication of this edit compared to all the others.

I'm not sure if this has been addressed at all before, and if it has I'm sorry to bring it up, but I need to know if something is going to be done to make Vader's voice uniform throughout the films.  His voice in ANH is to me the most menacing.  In the sequels it is deeper (slowed down?  Harmonizer?) and sounds contrived and phony.  Picture "Commander tear this ship apart until you've found those plans, and bring me the passengers. I want them alive!" done with the ROTJ voice.  It just wouldn't work.  Is it possible to repitch his voice in the sequels to more properly match the way it sounds in ANH?

I'm not sure about a piano only score, but I have one that's  done on pipe organ

Well, it looks like no one has had anything to say about this for quite some time, so I will take it upon me to remedy that.

I've got an avi rip of this, but the quality sorta sucks.  I've been looking for the full DVD but have had no luck at all.  I wish someone would point me to a place to get it.

Also, I was wondering if there was any plan to do this with the audio done right.  I realize this is an attempt at a workprint style thing, but I'd like to see a full final version done with the audio fully produced and corrected.  What I've seen has terrible hiss, and many shots of exteriors without sound, or with the wrong sound.  Some scenes with someone off set shouting lines to the actors (Mother's voice?) that were clearly meant to be replaced later, and the one scene with Ash's head being bashed off where you can hear the director directing.  The video work on this release is fantastic.  If the sound were done correctly it would be a perfect full version of the movie.

Oh.  One thing I noticed in this:  There's a scene where the crew goes down to check out the derelict, and you hear Parker say something to them over the radio.  Then a shot of the same scene plays from inside the Nostromo with Parker and Brett shown, and the same dialogue is repeated.  The scene doubles up from different perspectives.  Wouldn't it have made more sense to cut back and forth between the shots?

Just being overly picky as I am wont to do.

ladyferry said:

...I don't know why I'm so shocked by those when in the same movie we have the bloody and barbequed skinless Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru!

well the style thing is the problem.  The TIE blows up, then keeps on blowing up like it was going through a big chain reaction, while the DS just goes up all in one bang.  As I know it, TIEs are totally stripped ships with the least of whatever is necessary to make them work. They don't even have air in them!  So what is causing this long continuing explosion?

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=759PX983

here it is.  silly me.

I'm curious to see what you all think of the scenes as they sound now.  For the one (chapters 10-11) there was no music for the first half, then Tennessee Waltz.  I removed TW and put Alan's Blues in there throughout the entire scene, including coming over the phone at the beginning.

Remember, this film was in mono and fairly lo-fi, with a lot of noise.  We tried to remove a lot of the noise when doing this.  (this project was done almost entirely by me but a team of 3 of us worked on the  most difficult parts)

I'd show you the videos, but we haven't released the DVD yet.  I have never authored a DVD before and I need filmclip menus and all that.  It'll take me  some time to learn the software.  I also have to finish speed correcting the audio, as it is now at PAL speed in the chapters I haven't done yet.  For a movie with a lot of music this is unacceptable.

oh shit.  I don't really know how to find it again.  Sorry.  gimme a minute