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dexters

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26-May-2005
Last activity
27-May-2005
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17

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Post
#109597
Topic
The Prequel Curse
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109597/action/topic#109597
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: dexters
Quote
my point is, there is a difference between the people that the PT appeals to more, and the people who are actually Star Wars fans. My cousin who is 5 likes watching TPM, to him, it's just a movie like Toy Story or The Lion King, and he thinks ANH is boring. This may change as he gets older, but right now, the PT appeals to him. But he's not really a fan, he's just one of the billions of people who watches Star Wars. I'm not a fan of Titanic. I think it's boring. But it was such a big movie, that I saw it. I actually saw it a few times, through friends and family. But that doesn't mean I liked it... Do you get what I'm trying to say? I would understand if you said (or Lucas said) the PT appealed to people under the age of 25 more, because that would make sense. But saying that FANS under the age of 25 prefer the PT more isn't really true.

Er... I'm not trying to argue with you, and I didn't mean to write such a long reply, and I doubt I'll change your mind about anything you've already said. That's just my 2 cents. I can't even remember what I wrote anymore...


Well, there's more choice for today's kids than say even just 15-20 years ago with the VHS star wars generation who grew up with the OT on tape. Like it or not, other producers have figured out what makes Star Wars so likable and cloned it in their films. They've had 28 years to figure it out.

I think the PT have some pretty serious flaws and I also think Lucas already told the really good story he needed telling in Episodes 4-6, the PT by an large require you to ultimately care about the fate of characters that will still be there in the OT for it to be worth the while to sit through a 12+ hour episodic movie. That said, I think the rampant hate of the PT and wishing even a good PT film like Revenge of the Sith to underperform (I don't need to point out the comments made by a handful of posters on this subject over numerous threads) tends to show me that people here, or the hardcores at least, have moved beyond legitimate criticism in the realm of vindictive fan action based entirely on hate and spite. And that has dimished the credibility of their reasoning.
Post
#109595
Topic
Lucas is way off....time will tell....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109595/action/topic#109595
Time
Quote
I think that as the years go by, the PT will not stand the test of time and anyone who thought it was awesome and great will revisit it again and see the weaknesses and wasted potential.



I tend to agree with your general sentiments. ROTJ was my favorite film when I was younger as well, but when I grew older, ESB became my favorite.

With regards to the PT, I think kids who grew up liking TPM will come to appreciate ROTS. the most, and this will be enhanced if they also happen to enjoy the OT even more. So your theory doesn't really hold. I understand though that you've gone to great pains to make sure that the OT is the only thing that matters, as do many posters here, but nostalgia can have a huge effect on experience. In the same way it has frozen many people's views of the OT into a kind of sacred text, the kids who had their indoctrination to Star Wars with the PT films (helped along by repeated viewings of the SE PT no doubt) will probably feel differently about the PT than you or even I do.


Post
#109592
Topic
The Prequel Curse
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109592/action/topic#109592
Time
Quote
my point is, there is a difference between the people that the PT appeals to more, and the people who are actually Star Wars fans. My cousin who is 5 likes watching TPM, to him, it's just a movie like Toy Story or The Lion King, and he thinks ANH is boring. This may change as he gets older, but right now, the PT appeals to him. But he's not really a fan, he's just one of the billions of people who watches Star Wars. I'm not a fan of Titanic. I think it's boring. But it was such a big movie, that I saw it. I actually saw it a few times, through friends and family. But that doesn't mean I liked it... Do you get what I'm trying to say? I would understand if you said (or Lucas said) the PT appealed to people under the age of 25 more, because that would make sense. But saying that FANS under the age of 25 prefer the PT more isn't really true.

Er... I'm not trying to argue with you, and I didn't mean to write such a long reply, and I doubt I'll change your mind about anything you've already said. That's just my 2 cents. I can't even remember what I wrote anymore...


Well, there's more choice for today's kids than say even just 15-20 years ago with the VHS star wars generation who grew up with the OT on tape. Like it or not, other producers have figured out what makes Star Wars so likable and cloned it in their films. They've had 28 years to figure it out.

I think the PT have some pretty serious flaws and I also think Lucas already told the really good story he needed telling in Episodes 4-6, the PT by an large require you to ultimately care about the fate of characters that will still be there in the OT for it to be worth the while to sit through a 12+ hour episodic movie. That said, I think the rampant hate of the PT and wishing even a good PT film like Revenge of the Sith to underperform (I don't need to point out the comments made by a handful of posters on this subject over numerous threads) tends to show me that people here, or the hardcores at least, have moved beyond legitimate criticism in the realm of vindictive fan action based entirely on hate and spite.

Post
#109429
Topic
Reasons why the O-OT is better than the SE
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109429/action/topic#109429
Time
It's also called nostalgia, and yes, the rationalization of aging OT fans about how great they are is quite funny. The Star Wars films have never been accepted as high art because they've never been high art.

That's fine with me, the OT is what brought me into Star Wars fandom. What I do enjoy reading the posts here though is how the posters here think about the OT and get all upset because RoTS is actually liked by many fans, including posters here.

And regarding my diplomacy, I'm prepared to be as kind and courteous as I can be. I'd like to sit down and discuss things plainly. But given some of the posters I'm responding to go out of their way to be offended, sarcastic or angry, that's the kind of responses they'll get back.

I have to say though, the little quote by Lucas about his stance against colorizing B&W films sums up the mentality of the hardcore posters in this board the best. It is quite funny that it never occured to anyone before plastering that quote everywhere that colorizing B&W movies by directors who are long dead are not the same as the director themselves deciding to colorize them.
Post
#109427
Topic
The Prequel Curse
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109427/action/topic#109427
Time
I'm 15 years old, and I prefer the OT over the PT. I also prefer the OT over the SE versions. All of my friends (or at least the ones that like Star Wars) prefer the OT over the PT, and they ranged from ages 13 - 18.

You also post in this forum, which sort makes you a little biased. The claim was never made that all young people would prefer the PTs, I'm sure many kids who grew up bacin the 70s and 80s never got the OT either and they are the ones writing those long diatribes against the entire franchise. The only claim made is that younger viewers are in a different position to enjoy the films and their judgement would be different and not stuck in some idealized version of their youth.


Here's an interesting article on RottenTomatoes over how the OT was reviewed and viewed by the 'established' press back when they were first released.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/news/comments/?entryid=197859
Post
#109304
Topic
How do you rate EpIII?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109304/action/topic#109304
Time
Quite the opposite. Sith has changed the tenor of all the six films and will be a major piece of debate for years and years to come as to how significant it truly is. The early talk about it rivalling ESB will also never end, and likely only grow stronger as more and more young fans who get to experience all 6 films with kid eyes grow up with their own perspective on the films, and not get bogged down and stuck in 1983 like so many OT fans here have apparently been living their lives.
Post
#109300
Topic
This guy REALLY hates the prequels
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109300/action/topic#109300
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Asha
Quote
Just because most fans of the franchise have moved on, have a larger perspective and are not caught up in a feedback loop of hate and anger doesn't make our opinions any less credible. But I suppose taking potshots at people you think don't read this board is how you get off as being slightly superior.


Ha ha ha.

TheForce.net's motto: "Thank you, George. May I have another?"


And your motto would be?

"I'm still stuck in my mom's basement bitching"?

Post
#109299
Topic
The Prequel Curse
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109299/action/topic#109299
Time
Not really, the prequels has fragmented the Star Wars fanbase into whiners and non whiners, but generally, there is a large portion of the public which accepts them for what they are.

I've said this before, the Star Wars fans who are just entering their teens today will take another 5-10 years to get their voices heard in this discussion. Although Lucas was over-generalizing when he mentioned at Cannes that there are two groups of Star Wars fans, one under 25 which liked the prequels more and those over 25 which liked the OT more, there's plenty of anecdotal evidence that he's actually right, and he was probably just parroting some marketing study on his fanbase he has read.

Lots of kids who grew up with the phantom menace view the Star Wars films in a very different light. There is no OT/PT divide and some of them quite like the prequels. RotS will be their ESB and we'll have debates about this forever.

Post
#109178
Topic
I am boycotting EpIII.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109178/action/topic#109178
Time
I went in about 10% spoiled. I, like most Star Wars fans, knew the general arc of the story, but I also knew things like there would be a General Grevious v. Obi-Wan duel, and I was spoiled about certain scenes which might be in the film.

But being relatively unspoiled, my first viewing floored me. The opening half hour was great fun, the space battle was nice. Then the middle 30 minutes slowed down with the setting up of characters, but the final hour floored me.

Order 66, Palpatine's declaration, Vader going around killing people (finally!), the duel, the birth of the twins/vader masked and that last 3 minute silent montage. I had tears in my eyes, basically all these years of Star Wars, its all going back to that tiny farm in Tatooine with a whiny boy called Luke.

My second viewing was less emotional for me so I just sat back and watched it, and yes, I picked out the flaws because of it. Overall, Its tied with ESB right now for my favorite SW film. I can say one thing though, given that Rots worked for me and it seems the majority of the people, many of the scenes in OT, especially in ANH have additional weight and resonance to them.

I was really indifferent to Hayden's inclusion in ROTJ and I'm sure many people here hated it, but after Sith, I went back and watched the DVD again and seeing him in force ghost form evoked all kinds of feelings I had about his character in Rots, and it worked. For all the complaints about his poor acting, I think most people wanted Anakin to not turn to the darkside, and Hayden played that part of his role well enough for people to care about it.
Post
#109166
Topic
Things you DID NOT like about Episode III
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109166/action/topic#109166
Time
there was a lack of giving your fan base the benefit of the doubt( not everything had to be explained )

Really? Over at TFN, and I see some of it repeated here, a few people are picking apart all the 6 movies and calling plotholes left and right because they read the films literally, as if they all take place in 6 days, without giving credit to the fact that events offscreen may have explained some of the things.

Hayden in Vader suit, acting as a fool. DAVID PROWSE should be there. He deserves it.

Can he even fit into the suit?
Post
#109161
Topic
This guy REALLY hates the prequels
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109161/action/topic#109161
Time
I don't mind his tone, and I don't think his comments about die-hard, prequel-obsessed Star Wars fans are that far off the mark. Have you checked out TheForce.net recently?

I post there regularly. Just because most fans of the franchise have moved on, have a larger perspective and are not caught up in a feedback loop of hate and anger doesn't make our opinions any less credible. But I suppose taking potshots at people you think don't read this board is how you get off as being slightly superior.

I'm not a biggest fan of the prequels, but they still have a story to tell and the first two adds to my understanding of where the Star Wars universe pre Luke Skywalker began, the political situation, the character connections. The fact that Revenge of the Sith is such a wonderful movie was only a bonus.

As for the SFgate article on StarWars, leave it the left-wing columnists to come up with articles like that making sweeping generalizations and bemoaning how nude fat frenchmen throwing shit on canvas isn't appreciated more as art.
Post
#109159
Topic
ROTS: Palpatine's Diatribe
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109159/action/topic#109159
Time
It was all an act, or a reflection of Palpatine's real temprament, or both.

Lucas seems to be saying Sith lords are really nothing more than cowards who when cornered and unarmed will beg like a scared child for their life, waiting for an opportunity to strike out.

The alternative theory is that Palpatine, being the master manipulator, knew Anakin would be on his way and it was all an act for show. He certainly let himself get beaten and didn't use force lightning until Anakin arrived. His fight with Yoda showed how good he is, which tends to negate how he lost to Windu to begin with.

I subscribe to the latter theory.

Ian is a great actor, and that was such a nicely filmed sequence.
Post
#109158
Topic
I am boycotting EpIII.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109158/action/topic#109158
Time
You know, the general public already views many Star Wars fans as kind of a sad offshoot of some sort of fanatical cultism. I'm not sure how people will rank in the heirarchy or dorkiness when even admitted Star Wars dorks like myself think people who boycott Episode 3 because of some vague idea Lucas raped his childhood with the SE releases, which BTW is totally arguable with lots and lots of fans like myself having no problem with the changes, are dorks.

Really, you must have some sad life issues to actually start a boycott campaign, and given the readership of this forum, I'm not sure it it will even matter.

That said, RotS, I liked. It's an emotionally draining film the first time you see it. The flaws that it has become more apparent on repeat viewings, but the OT is riddled with flaws as well. I think the kids who grew up with the Phantom Menace will have a special place for this film in 10 to 20 years, much like our obession over ESB's greatness. And they get the benefit of going home and plopping in 4-6 on DVD and find out what happens to the babies.
Post
#109154
Topic
Rampant Rationalisation
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109154/action/topic#109154
Time
Anakin's age was never established in the OT, and since I don't read or follow any of the EU nonesense, I'm sure they explained it there.

I've always assumed though that he turned as a young man, and Shaw's force ghost always irked me, seeing this old man who is Darth Vader wearing Jedi robes (where did the old darth vader get it?)

I was skittish and worried about the change with the 2004 SE and was rather indifferent to it until last week. After Revenge of the Sith, I want Hayden to be in ROTJ and not Shaw, it just works much better. Besides, Lucas' rationalization that Anakin only gets to keep his young form (before his turn) is really no worse than the previous rationalization of the older Anakin being the force ghost. It's a matter of how you look at it, but given you guys have made it a mission to attack Lucas about all the changes he's made, It's not surprising you are all blindly following the old version of 'reality' despite the fact that it's really no better than the new one.

Wait, let me backtrack, the new version officially works better now, after Revenge of the Sith.
Post
#109152
Topic
Reasons why the O-OT is better than the SE
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/109152/action/topic#109152
Time
The focus if on CHARACTER and not on EFFECTS. That's *my* reason the OT is better than the SE (or PT).

So Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi won oscars for effects and is hated by many non Star Wars fans for ruining hollywood because its focus is on CHARACTER?

Maybe being 6, 7 or 10 year old little kiddies watching Star Wars for the first time and getting blown away have something to do with this distorted version of reality. Nostalgia can do a lot of things, and I actually appreciate the choice at least to see the OT in their original form, which Lucas should give fans sometime soon, maybe when HD-DVD or Blue-Ray technology kicks in allowing for truly massive storage and multiple versions of a film to be stored in one disk. That said, I really don't mind the changes at all.