Meaning in order to isolate the dialogue (into its own separate track) in a section of the original audio where the only significant sound obscuring the dialogue is the music, you simply need the original score. Which is widely available. It sounds just like working with layers and transparencies in an image editor.
The old standby of those who create: ITS ALL A HACK.
Spectralayers sounded interesting, but I came across something brilliant while looking up alternatives and similar options. This article: http://www.howtogeek.com/61250/how-to-isolate-and-save-vocals-from-music-tracks-using-audacity/ suggests that to isolate vocals from music you need the original vocal-less soundtrack, which you then basically invert and superimpose over the version of the song with vocals. Here, what is not in the instrumental, is by definition the vocals, and as long as the two instrumental tracks are indeed the same track, apparently with some tweaking Audacity can deduce a new audio track (the vocals) from that difference.
In songs, this technique would rarely be useful, as most aren’t released in a vocal-less version (although maybe artists officially distribute a karaoke version, idk) but in the case of movies, any movie that releases its soundtrack (which is common) should be able to have the in-film dialogue isolated/extracted, at least in theory. I wonder what the quality would be though. If you’re mixing music back into the finished audio, any distortion might at least be masked by that.
I’m also guessing scenes where explosions and lasers and whatever are present in addition to the music would probably pollute the ideal vocal result. But again, we’re kind of talking about hacks in the first place, so maybe that is tolerable.
Yeah, the landscapes look nice. And of course stories are a pivotal element. But watching a play that has terrible sets and costuming is extremely distracting, even if the actors play well and the story is sound.
My biggest design complaints are with the characters, they just look like toys for very young children. Their costumes are like some child’s idea of proper gear, and their faces and expressions are more simplified than those in even the first episodes of CW. As for the animation quality, while this team isn’t the same, technology and technique in the industry in general has improved since CW. Budget differences are more of a legitimate issue, but that should only affect character or set execution, not the designs themselves.
Presumably the original CW series were marketed to include children as well, but their environments were still more realistic, and weren’t trying to make every texture, color, contour, and light source in the frame unmistakably soft and friendly.
I don’t deny there is work and complexity in the design or the stories of Rebels. Anyway, I’ve only seen screenshots and clips, so I don’t have a basis to discuss it extensively yet.
Man, I just watched a clip of Rebels, and the style of everything is complete shit. Every surface is oversimplified. All the sets look like they were designed by Playskool/Tonka and the costumes look vomitously childish, in friendly colors with pointless straps and pouches everywhere - “Hey kids! Check out these ADVENTURERS®!”.
And what’s with the goatees? Why do people still put that on a character to make them “cool”? I’m surprised they didn’t add a “space fedora” to the costume >_<;;
On the flipside, the action and writing didn’t seem bad right away.
I’m probably going to watch this too, just to see what happens with Ahsoka, but I am not looking forward to it. This is going to be hard to get through.
Ouch. That was the one possibility I was hoping would NOT be an answer. Wow. So entire edits are dictated by certain scenes where music and visuals are crucially linked in the originals. Okay.
THAT is enlightening. I figured maybe some editors were either good enough or diligent enough or clever enough to get around that somehow.
Good to be aware of the immovable objects at least!
@SpenceEdit: That paints a lot into the picture for me, thanks.
@Hal 9000: Thanks for confirming that a lot of editing is just being convincing in what are probably ridiculous sound hacks ^_^
So it sounds like a lot of the effort is spent using hacks to get music out of your way, presumably so that you can omit it alltogether or add it back in, synchronized with whatever scene you’ve inserted. Is this correct?
An obvious follow up question is, what do you do where you cannot get the music out of the way/replace it? Does the music then dictate what you can or can’t convincingly do, edit-wise?
If you read the article/announcement from the official Star Wars site above, you can see that they fully intend to allow themselves to draw upon whatever elements they see fit for inclusion into future canon. So ideas, characters, or stories you liked may well appear in future material, albeit likely not in the same exact settings or context.
Just a case of the show occasionally going into anachronic order. The third season of the show was promoted under the title “Secrets Revealed” and half of it was dedicated to expanding on stories from the previous two seasons.
Thanks. I tend to appreciate achronal storytelling, so that works for me. Although I do wish it was clearer in the presentation somehow.
Remember both THE CLONE WARS (CGI) and REBELS are 110% CANON! Clone Wars isn’t!
Please read the thread at least a little before posting. Every bit of what you posted, except for your recommendation and details about what you personally have seen (and in what format), has already been posted. This thread only had eleven posts!
Wait so the old Clone Wars cartoon isn’t suddenly canon? Why? Source ?
I wonder why as well, probably licensing? Or maybe there is some specific element that contradicts what the Story Group wants to do. Curious about all of these things, because it really does fit perfectly into the 2008 series. The source of Greivous’ cough was introduced there!
Although there is that ridiculous scene where someone rides a speeder bike up the side of a skyscraper all the way to the top. Could have done without that. The animation style was also iffy, it was like Star Wars characters thrust into the Ren+Stimpy universe >_<
As for sources, here is the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_canon#Post-2014
and here is slightly more background: http://www.starwars.com/news/the-legendary-star-wars-expanded-universe-turns-a-new-page
Something interesting here is that since both the cel and CG (2003 and 2008) Clone Wars Series have more or less the same name, there may be some confusion, because after rereading several articles, there isn’t specification about which Clone Wars animated series is being referred to when “the Clone Wars animated series” is mentioned. Only the table presented on the Wikipedia page states clearly that the 2003 series isn’t in the canon list, but that table doesn’t have any citations for reference. So it may be that the 2003 series is canon. If anyone has links that can clarify this, please post them.
I’ve been interested in Q2’s, I wish they would continue the series. Smudger9’s seem to cut a lot of things out that I liked, for instance the Zillo Beast, whose storyline had some real flaws, but the beast itself was incredible. And the aforementioned Mandalore arc isn’t in it either.
I call it the “PT Patch Update.”
pat man said:
Here is a chronological list of episodes/ movie to watch from the 2008 Clone Wars. http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder
THAT is confusing. I had no idea they were aired out of order. Was this a Disney retcon, or what how where? Someone please explain.
Oh and thanks for the link!
I avoided this for a long time, but recently after hearing it was going to be part of the new set-in-stone canon, and hungry for more Star wars, I set out to watch it as well as the 2003 series.
I’ve just gotten to season 2, and without providing any spoilers, some of the stories were so good, I decided to create this thread.
First of all, an interesting thing is that even though the 2003 series is not part of the new canon, the 2008 series is clearly based on it and a direct continuation of it.
One thing that stands out to me is that the facial expressions in the animation are frequently impressive in their subtlety and range. There are times as I watch it that I am taken off guard by how well a scene was played by expressions alone.
There are a lot of annoyances in the series, I won’t pretend otherwise. Jar Jar occasionally appears, and is as stupid as ever. The battle droids are still stupid (though sometimes genuinely funny). Characters use nicknames for one another that are cringeworthy and furthermore don’t really seem like they fit in a Star Wars context. And I’ve taken to calling Anakin Skywalker “American Skywalker” for the fact that despite his crass immaturity and blatant lack of respect for anyone or anything, everyone not only tolerates him, but celebrates him - honestly I don’t know how he was granted knighthood. He behaves less like a Jedi than any other Jedi onscreen, in any adaptation.
But Obi-Wan is very well represented, clearly based on Ewan MacGregor’s portrayal. Yoda is also done well, and evocative, and Mace Windu gets convincing treatment as well.
The episodes tend to move at a breakneck pace and focus mostly on battles, so this is a war drama primarily. But the main thing that I find worthy of investment and praise is the subplots and the characterizations, each of which feature a surprising degree of craft and thoughtfulness.
There have been several times I liked the stories well enough (particularly the Mandaloran arc in season 2) that I found myself wishing it had found form as a live action film. In other words, while a lot of the series is merely good by children’s animation standards, some of it (a lot of it actually) surpasses the best elements of the PT.
Anyway - for those of you who were avoiding it like I was, maybe give it a try.
This review is great ^_^
I’ve used NLEs before for short, basic projects that I’ve shot myself, where I control all the original audio and video input sources. I’m competent with the basics of how NLEs work. But I’m utterly mystified as to how the better faneditors will shorten or lengthen a scene and have the music and atmospheric sounds flow seamlessly. I imagine it only appears to be seamless, but music-wise, it has to be pretty much perfect. In terms of atmospheric sounds, I’m sure there can be more leeway. And dialogue starts and stops completely enough that I’m not at all confused about how that would be edited, as mentioned above, I have edited before.
So really my main question is about music. When the original scene lasts from 1:00 to 2:00, and has music beginning at 1:00 and ending at 2:00, but I want to extend the scene to last from 1:00 to 3:30, having the cues for the swells or crashes in the same places relative to the visual events, which are now at different times, how do I do that? I’ve thought about it and it seems that without tracks being separated (sorry, an unspoken assumption here) moving music around would be impossible.
Are a lot of editors finding cleanly separated audio channel sources or something? I’m assuming at best faneditors get a video track and a right, left, and center audio track, all of which have the same audio but in different volumes.
So really my main question as about how you edit sound when the source has all the sounds mixed together in a single track, or several tracks each of which have a mixture music/atmospherics/dialogue 😛
Do you use filters to artificially separate the three elements (foleyed, dialogue, music)?
Anyway, information anyone? Thanks!
I’ve had some luck with minor MKV edits using AviDemux, it works if you want to replace or reencode the entire soundtrack for instance.
These are good points. But now we should be moving this over to a RotJ thread >_>
Fair. I just wish even a bedridden but conscious Finn having a proper goodbye with Rey. Their friendship is such a driving force in the movie that I would have enjoyed that–temporary–closure. At least they have two more movies. And yes, that was supposed to be “is.”
I think it was deliberate that there wasn’t closure. or at least if it was an accident, it turns out good that there isn’t closure. It specifically means there is unfinished business, and that Rey has to reunite with Finn. This lack of closure actually reinforces their shared destiny, if not their emotional narrative specifically.
The prequel battle droids not looking like IG-88 was a missed opportunity.
This is a ultra-fantastic idea. Why didn’t they do that!? That would have made so much sense… IG88 being a leftover droid.
The Clone Wars CG animated series had these droids in several episodes as well, mostly portraying them as specialized for assassination, so that is probably the direction canon is leaning now. Even so, a retcon that even just has specialized IG88 assassination legions (terror/kill squads) would not only be plausible, but a strong idea.
Ideally someone gets some IG88 Maya models or something and recomposites droid battle scenes from the prequels to feature a few or even all IG88s -_^
Prequel-based reasoning so it may not fly here, but could some of the in-universe prejudice stem from the Clone Wars?
If we were retconning I’d like that as a reason. If used in conjunction with the general ignorance of people, it could make a plausible narrative.
There are plenty of helpful droids in the prequels though.
See above re: ignorance of people. Give them just the slightest excuse to justify a prejudice they already have…
Well, the silent version was another I avoided because it sounded ridiculous, but after this I should reconsider.
I don’t think that Williams’ work lacks emotion—! Just to be clear. It bursts with it, but in a fairly specific range.
There’s something that happens in Michael Mann’s films where a four second shot on an actor’s face, or even just their eyes seems to reveal an indescribable storm of pent up, jagged emotions, which really works with a character like Anakin. I’m not sure Williams has that kind of screwed up energy and pain in his palette (which was why
Are there enough themes like that in Williams’ Star Wars discography?
was meant as a non-rhetorical question).
Sorry if that sounded like a jab at you, it wasn’t. If anything I was hoping someone else in the thread might PM me.
I wonder what they’re doing over there 😕 ?
TV’s Frink said:
“It’s locked, move on to the next one.”
That line always makes me laugh.
Hmm…you need to find some places–lots of places–for that line in your edits. I can’t remember if there are many times stormtroopers go up to closed doors in the OT, though.
This would be hilarious. Incredulous at that scene, I was.
With some dubbing it could also just be a theme used by other characters in other situations. there might be non-stormtrooper scenes involving door approaches etc.
This discussion is reminding me of something I read somewhere about a Star Trek writer who wrote a mention of underwear into one of his novels, only to have it vetoed by some official at Paramount because the canonicity of underwear in the ST Universe hadn’t been confirmed yet.
I think this is kind of the gist of what I was originally talking about.
I think its kind of hilarious how offended some people sound in here, accusing me of practially having some kind of poop fetish or something.
ITT: PEOPLE OUTRAGED BY POOP
To clarify yet again, I don’t want a restroom scene, I don’t want a scene of any creature or character expelling excrement in any way, lol.
I JUST THINK IT IS WEIRD THERE IS A COMPLETE ABSENCE OF WASHING OR BATHING OR TOILET TECHNOLOGY IN THE SWU
The barber shop reference is less difficult to imagine. I mean I’m sure we all just assume that in outer space they use FloBees.
Well, the other thing is that this edit specifically works because of the absence of enormous amounts of dialogue, which can only be replaced with atmospheric sounds or music. Barring access to raw tracks, re-foleying the whole movie could be an effort dwarfing the primary aim of the edit.
The following thread might make the aforementioned task way easier though, if it ever bears fruit: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Brashs-Star-Wars-Sound-Effects-Archive-A-collection-of-the-best-Star-Wars-sounds-for-use-in-Fan-Editing/id/12364 The thread is kind of a mess though and there isn’t a way to figure out who has what or wants to provide it or when things are being released or if they ever will be >_<
John Williams’ scores are magnificent punctuations. but I’m not sure they have the emotional complexity to carry several minutes at a time largely by themselves, while the actors just stand there emoting.
Confession: I’ve never sat around listening to Star Wars soundtracks. But the theme you linked does have a lot of gravity and darkness. If there was a more conventional edit using the same visual and plot structure as this one, I think it would basically require nothing but themes like Padme’s Ruminations. Are there enough themes like that in Williams’ Star Wars discography?
I’m also a fan of the type of music used in the Neon Noir edit, so I may have come out of the gate biased. I already listen to Kavinsky/The Chromatics/Daft Punk, for instance.
Yeah RotJ begs for edits as much as the prequels. I wish I could find the Spence edit, I’ve got the YADS/Daneditor edit and while it has good ideas about structure and makes some tangible and important changes, the editing is sub par… some scenes don’t even have the right aspect ratio 😕
I believe that this is pertinent to the discussion: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/28/star-wars-storytelling-and-fixing-it-in-post
That article gives about my same critique, but with more substantiation. Thanks for the link. Now if only the author would point out more than merely Maz and Rey’s scene as a concrete example—!
If anything that article goes to show how good the
But there is a lot of interesting observation here too. That article is definitely worth a read for perspective.
You know, I also enjoy reading commentaries like that about the difficulty of fixing things post production simply because of the utter finesse so many faneditors show -
it can be fixed, guys.
I think Abrams probably just ran out of time, something faneditors often have [relatively] limitless amount of. As is often the case in creating something, being able to do something is one thing, being able to do it
on time is another.
Faneditors often work alone and substitute enormous amounts of time for what would otherwise require an enormous budget. But there are margins between these extremes with gradients, and even an infinite budget, as we can see, might not magically sculpt what can only be achieved through an expense of time.
Not all currencies are accepted everywhere in the universe 😉
All this is fairly consistent with slave history though.
In America and other countries during and after slavery, there were places that agreed slaves or former slaves were people, and places that did not.
In Gladiator, Russell Crowe went from a high ranking military figure to an entertainment animal; droid bounty hunters might have gone in the opposite direction and “earned” their freedom. I always find it inconceivable how people kept track of who was a slave and who wasn’t back when just about anyone could end up in slavery - my point being that transitions sometimes happened and appearances might not be the best predictors of free or enslaved individuals in such a system.
Yeah R2 does scream a lot. But in the supposedly canon Clone Wars animated series, he gets taken apart while still conscious and doesn’t seem in discomfort.