cuivienor

And non-digital orcs (or no orcs at all for that matter, or at least orcs that do not have a GPS tracer on Thorin & Co), less elf-surfing, less CGI, less barrel-flying, fewer subplots (watch out! they're gonna push the dwarves from the fish barrels into the water *gasp*), less Dragon Ball type magical fights (such a disappointment, given how Middle-Earth "magic" had been so well-handled in LotR), less traveling for nothing (yeah sure, Gandalf will first meet Radagast in Rhudaur to the "tombs" of the nine - that scene was fully unnecessary - and then go back over the mountains to Dol Guldur), less Radagast (I'm sorry Radagast, but why are you even on screen in this one?), less "Show yourself" in Dol Guldur (dude, you suspect this is *Sauron*, not some blockheaded Bracegirdle from Hardbottle, it might be wise to do like your book counterpart and *sneak in*. A bit disappointing for Olorin to be so unwise), less dwarves immediately abandoning once the last light of Durin's day is gone (sure let's travel all this way and then when so close to the goal, immediately abandon), less gold-melting and shaping, less Athelas, less Legolas fighting around, less cross-race romances (I mean what is it with this stupid practice of desperately wanting to add feminine presence in movies at all costs? Is it not insulting to everybody from both sexes that such things are deemed necessary?), less telepathy (YES, I know, in the book at the end of RotK, a scene with the Elves is described as them communicating without words - but telepathy across huge distances has been a bad idea from the start in LotR, and has been thankfully cut from the edits), no Matrix-like "I don't stop bullets in their tracks with my staff, but I do stop Orcs with my staff - woohoo! Weird how in a few decades I will have completely forgotten how to do that, it sure would have made those fights in Moria easier", fewer silly jokes (sure, make them go in toilets, the film is already ludicrous enough by now, just rub it in our faces), less Thranduil defacing (this is not the latest James Bond).

And what is missing: character development, Bilbo (where exactly is the Hobbit?), a proper Beorn, more Mirkwood desperation (why have them get lost in such an idiotic way when you can easily do like the book: make them take time and slowly become so desperate and famished they stray from the path?), more time in the woodelves dungeons (Bilbo needs to formulate a plan, not come up with one in 5 minutes like a McGyver or Micheal Scoffield character), more quiet talk between Bilbo and Smaug.

What I thought did actually work: explaining how spiders talk by tying it back to the ring is I think quite a good idea, and works well IMO. The spider scene is not bad, but I could have done without the elves - although at that time I think that filmically it works. The Bilbo-Smaug dialogue is good, while not at the same level as the Gollum scenes of AUJ. I liked the ambiance and atmosphere of Laketown, as well as the accompanying music. Freeman's portrayal of Bilbo is still spot-on. This short moment when Bilbo realizes the flaw in his escape plan from the woodelves dungeons. The joy when Bilbo climbs up the trees in Mirkwood.

Now indeed, the EE better have the good stuff that was removed in favor of slapstick and stupid action scenes, or else fan editors will have a really tough task salvaging anything (maybe cutting Beorn entirely? he is entirely unnecessary in the movie).

Sigh...

Let's also hope that the last movie will be considerably better...

Thanks a lot for the quick answer!  Now I am just looking forward to all three EEs being released, so we can finally get you and Kerr's versions of the movies :) there is definitely some very good material in AUJ, and some good material will be in DoS EE - I'd particularly love to get some true Beorn (who is completely useless in the movie) and a feel that Bilbo takes longer than a couple of hours to save the dwarves from the dungeons (as in a book, taking many many days), maybe using shots of Bilbo wondering around, cut through with forest shots that seem to redden? Or anything that really makes it more than Bilbo suddenly being a super hero.

Truly, I think the Hobbit will deserve two editions with LotR:

- A "The Hobbit" edition, with as little unrelated to Bilbo as possible

- A "LotR prequel" edition, that does include the better scenes of the broader Middle earth situation (call me crazy, but I actually enjoyed the "White Council" scenes in AUJ - Azog, on the other hand...)

Thanks again, very excited about all that!

** Spoilers for The Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug below **

Apologies for reviving an old thread, but how is this doing? After the disaster that was DoS (in my opinion, just awful - shortening the original material and adding fan fiction, the Harry Potter-style Gandalf-Sauron duel - which works in HP's universe, but not in Middle Earth, puh-lease - and the idiotic barrel sequence and utter stupidity of the dwarves vs Dragon sequence really annoyed me greatly. Oh and where has "The hands of a King are the hands of a healer" gone to?), I need something to keep me going. I still can't understand why reviews of DoS are more positive than the infinitely better AUJ. It reminds me of how reviews at the time praised TTT as being superior to FotR (seriously?).

Anyway I have recently watched (and loved) Kerr's Red Book of Westmarch edit, although some events were too abrupt (why are Uruk-Hai suddenly surrounding Peregrin, Meriadoc, and Boromir?) - but on the whole I felt like I was actually watching the books, and it was great (in addition to being a testament to Kerr's incredible skill and dedication, it is a testament to PJ's talent to have been able to do that - if only PJ would quit bloating useless stuff). On thing I loved is how the Nazgul do not talk, except in RotK. This makes them incredibly more scary.

Similarly I am currently watching the Sharkey's Purist Edit 2.1, and this too is excellent, with many of the cuts identical to Kerr's version (sorry I am not sure which came earlier and thus which should take credit). It feels like PJ's LotR, improved for less ridiculousness and bloating, while keeping the same timing/narrative structure.

The direction that is being described for a new version of the Sharkey's edits is exactly what I would love to see as well... But is it simply that rather than doing the work multiple times, you are waiting for both DoS and TaBA EE to be released? It does seem that they may have some interesting footage to be used in a final general Hobbit-LotR quadrilogy (or more).

Now I am no longer looking forward to the last Hobbit movie, but I have to say that a version by Kerr and you integrating footage from all 6 movies to create a streamlined Hobbit-LotR quadrilogy is very exciting. Of course, some continuity issues will occur (cartoonish orcs in The Hobbit vs the more real-looking Orcs and Uruk-Hai of LotR) but then the same issues are in the books themselves.

Anyway, just to show that there is still interest in this!

Cheers