Sign In

chyron8472

User Group
Trusted Members
Join date
23-Aug-2010
Last activity
25-May-2018
Posts
3451

Post History

Post
#1205416
Topic
What are you reading?
Time

Star Trek (2009). It’s really very good, but I get the feeling the novelization is better in audiobook form than in print. Zachary Quinto narrates the story, and the descriptions of certain things use rather… big words I suppose. So it sounds good with a Vulcan reading it, but it might just come across oddly phrased when just on paper.

Post
#1205324
Topic
Religion
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

The “ask anybody on the street” argument doesn’t really work because people also describe heaven as having pearly gates (when that actually is the Holy City in Revelation), or God being an old man with a long white beard, or to attribute proverbs to the Bible that it doesn’t say (like “money is the root of all evil” or “God helps those who help themselves.”)

That’s true, but the Bible does describe hell as the way people tend to think of it.

The Bible describes the creation of the universe, from the formation of the space-time continuum down to the human life on this particular planet, as happening in 6 days. People when it was written would not understand the reality of it. So simpler, easier-to-comprehend language is used.

That doesn’t mean the Bible is wrong, but it does mean the truth is probably more complex and that the specific complexity is not altogether important to make the relevant point.

Post
#1205310
Topic
Religion
Time

The “ask anybody on the street” argument doesn’t really work because people also describe heaven as having pearly gates (when that actually is the Holy City in Revelation), or God being an old man with a long white beard, or to attribute proverbs to the Bible that it doesn’t say (like “money is the root of all evil” or “God helps those who help themselves.”)

Plus, the point I made about perhaps the Bible trying to describe something that potentially defies description from our points of view (or at least the points of view of those in biblical times.)

Post
#1205201
Topic
Religion
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

I’m not even going to get into this with you, mfm. You don’t really want to know my opinion. You want me to paint myself into a corner since you think my position is uninformed even by the sources of information I value most, and makes no sense from a rational standpoint.

I do want to know your opinion, but I’m obviously never going to hear it so I’ll move on.

I said: God is not torturing people.

So, you’re actually interested in my explaining how people are tormented without my also blaming God? You’re interested in my explaining holiness, sin, justice, and sacrifice? You want me to explain free will, and the relationship a loving father has with his children?

Well that’s basically my point. […] He’s a loving father that casts away the children that aren’t serving him. Christians actually hold God to a lower standard than they hold people. If a father in this world kicked his kids out of the house for not serving him or believing he’s all-knowing, that father would classified as heartless and awful.

Again, as I said, you color my answer with assumptions you’ve already made by saying he “casts away the children that aren’t serving him”. I didn’t say that, and the Bible doesn’t say that. You’re simplifying a concept, by overlooking certain aspects about it, into something that isn’t a true representation of itself. Basically you’ve constructed a strawman.

I’m just going to leave this thread assuming that you can’t answer my questions because that’s all I can assume at this point.

It is true that I can not answer your questions in a way that lets you deliberately prove the point you want to make.

Post
#1205188
Topic
Religion
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

I’m not even going to get into this with you, mfm. You don’t really want to know my opinion. You want me to paint myself into a corner since you think my position is uninformed even by the sources of information I value most, and makes no sense from a rational standpoint.

I do want to know your opinion, but I’m obviously never going to hear it so I’ll move on.

I said: God is not torturing people.

So, you’re actually interested in my explaining how people are tormented without my also blaming God? You’re interested in my explaining holiness, sin, justice, and sacrifice? You want me to explain free will, and the relationship a loving father has with his children?

Well that’s basically my point. […] He’s a loving father that casts away the children that aren’t serving him. Christians actually hold God to a lower standard than they hold people. If a father in this world kicked his kids out of the house for not serving him or believing he’s all-knowing, that father would classified as heartless and awful.

Again, as I said, you color my answer with assumptions you’ve already made by saying he “casts away the children that aren’t serving him”. I didn’t say that, and the Bible doesn’t say that. You’re simplifying a concept, by overlooking certain aspects about it, into something that isn’t a true representation of itself. Basically you’ve constructed a strawman.

Post
#1205171
Topic
Religion
Time

ZigZig said:

chyron8472 said:

ZigZig said:

chyron8472 said:

…that’s a very long multi-faceted explanation.

Short version : “God is Love” (John 4:8 and John 4:16) 😉

Yes.

JEDIT: Also, John 3:17: “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.”

Yes too. But my version is shorter!

Fixed. 😃

Post
#1205159
Topic
Religion
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

chyron8472 said:

I’m not even going to get into this with you, mfm. You don’t really want to know my opinion. You want me to paint myself into a corner since you think my position is uninformed even by the sources of information I value most, and makes no sense from a rational standpoint.

I do want to know your opinion, but I’m obviously never going to hear it so I’ll move on.

I said: God is not torturing people.

So, you’re actually interested in my explaining how people are tormented without my also blaming God? You’re interested in my explaining holiness, sin, justice, and sacrifice? You want me to explain free will, and the relationship a loving father has with his children?

…that’s a very long multi-faceted explanation.

Post
#1205133
Topic
Religion
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

No, I’m asking why (or even if) you think torture is immoral.

You’re not asking, you’re making a point. The question itself is both loaded and rhetorical. If I say yes, you say God is immoral for torturing people. If I say no, you say I’m both nuts and wrong, AND that God is still torturing people. Also, context is important and by the context around your question, I still can’t answer it. I can’t add my context to my answer because you don’t really want it. In effect, any answer is irrelevant.

Post
#1205108
Topic
Religion
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

Separation from God wouldn’t even be torment for most people.

If I assume that Hell simply is separation from God, I’m still going to need further citation that what you say will be remotely true. You assume that because people don’t accept Him here that means He’s not here, and therefore being unaccepting of Him here is no different from being apart from Him there.

why is it moral for God to torture people for the completely insignificant crime of not believing in him specifically.

You color this question with a presupposed view by the way you word it, and I don’t think I can answer it in a way that will be sufficient for you.

Post
#1205065
Topic
Religion
Time

NeverarGreat said:

It’s quite nightmarish to think that your essence could be in a vat somewhere being poked and prodded by godlike super-scientists.

Yes many dreams, good or bad, can come from the idea.

As I’ve said before, the only way for the soul to be truly eternal and indestructible is for it to be defined as nothingness.

Lack of destruction does not assert absolute indestructibility. Perhaps indestructible from a position on this plane.

JEDIT: Or perhaps it is indestructible because of where it is. Perhaps there’s a logical, physically quantifiable reason why Lucifer and his followers were not destroyed but rather exiled. The Bible says they at some point are thrown into the lake of fire (which is not necessarily Hell), but it does not say they are obliterated. Maybe there’s an actual knowable scientific explanation why. Just not by any science we can know from here.

Post
#1205058
Topic
Religion
Time

I read a book recently called Influx, by Daniel Suarez. In the book an AI character is talking to the protagonist, and the AI says that they have discovered that a portion of the human mind doesn’t exist in this universe, but is in fact extra-dimensional. Not just a random aspect but seemingly a core part of the mind.

I know the book is science fiction, but it got me thinking that it’s entirely possible the things that we describe as metaphysical or supernatural may actually make sense in a physical sense, but just not one that is knowable to we ourselves from our perspective and limited senses on this plane. Like, there might actually be a spirit or soul that is eternal, that is also connected somehow to our bodies and our minds, and the existence of it and our connection to it is actually something scientifically measurable and behaves in a way the makes scientific sense, just not to us here.

In other words, Arthur C. Clarke’s third law is “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” And I might extend that to say sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from miracles.

Albeit, not that God, who is the Great Scientist, is required to behave scientifically.

Post
#1205028
Topic
Religion
Time

Also sperm cells are alive, and most of them die on the journey to the egg. And my wife says it is her understanding that up to half of fertilized eggs are miscarried for one reason or other, often because the egg simply did not implant, and without the mother even knowing.

Given that the discussion about abortion seems rather arbitary and complicated, my opinion is that it should be a matter between the mother, the father, the doctor, and God.

Post
#1205019
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

I don’t think so. The parents never bothered putting in effort to make their child less sickening so we’ll never know for sure but I don’t blame the kid. She was like 3 so I’m blaming the terrible parenting. There’s little that I hate more than parents who decide that since their lives are ruined, everyone else’s lives have to be ruined too.

Whenever I go out to dinner with my daughter, if she throws a fit and cries and fusses I take her outside. She doesn’t do it that often (knock on wood) but I react pretty quickly when it happens because I don’t intend to put up with it.