brimforge

Vader's invasion troops come down in shuttles, they can land near the base when the shields are down, that is why I think bringing in TIE Fighters and Bombers would be a logic addition, because they are the escort for the landing troops - not wanting to be shot down by X-Wings or Speeders ;-)

Yeah, some more troop ground battle would have been nice, maybe "Rogue One" will give some footage, which can be tweaked to fit the "Battle of Hoth"

I wonder if the new "Battle of Hoth" will be as tense and complex as it was in the game "Rogue Squadron" ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAFMfBzWOBY

I like how the Empire throws in waves of troops and vehicles (TIEs!) at the Rebels, forcing them to flee the base - somehow it is better orchestrated than in the actual movie ...

Yeah for HiC! (but I do wonder how heavy that thing must be?)

https://swrevisited.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/12027183_1160634407285473_3222314254126302335_o.jpg?w=576&h=1024

hehe, brings up some fond childhood memories playing (buildung things) with "owl"-glue ;-)

It's "hot in the city" around here, but this clip gave me goosebumps ;-)

I really felt like meeting an old flame, only she's looking a lot better now than in my memory ...

to begin with, Lucas should have never directed any of the PTs ...

and with any better director even Hayden would have given a better performance (see other movies), same with Natalie, she shines in other movies, because the person/s behind the camera know/s how to guide the actors ;-)

Which is kind of funny, as actors like McDermid and McGregor do their thing and it works even with the few help from Lucas ...

well, and the fact, that the story and plot of Episode 1-3 isn't as solid as it could have been.

^ Nice one, so maybe one or more actors can be changed ;-)

interesting, that once DiCaprio was considered to play Anakin, judging how Jake now looks, it would have been the better choice ...

http://www.theforce.net/story/front/Jake_Lloyd_Arrested_In_South_Carolina_After_Car_Chase_164685.asp

always "WOW!", how a 4 minutes-trailer for a game addon, has more drama and epic than there was in the whole PT ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nzq9epS2b1A

so many things, that I would have liked to see used in the PT :-/

and one wonders why all those threads run over 1000 pages ... ;-)

yeah, it should be "correct", that the outer rims of the turbines are thicker, because they have two half rings, the inner halves therefore are thinner ...

the confusion could be that most just drew the inner circle(s) so, there would be a "perfect" O and not C ;-)

I think the reason most of the X-Wings got "perfect circled" turbines, seems to be they either didn't look close enough or it was easier to built (or draw) ?

with many things in the movies, models and pictures made after them, vary to some degree, so it depends how you like to look at them ;-)

ImperialFighter said:

So you're right, that would make the prop 'engine turbines' slightly 'higher' in these shots than they would have been if they had been (correctly) closed when the X-Wing headed down to Dagobah.

But this unfortunately means that the middle 'horizontal' detail of the engine turbines also have an incorrect 'slanted angle' in these shots, because the wings are in the 'open' position. (this image gives a good idea of what I mean) -

(and here's your example pic again, which shows the incorrectly 'angled' engine detail a little better, without being obscured by your red outline) -

It's one of these little things that I've never actually noticed before, and I'm not sure it's something that can be rectified without a lot of additional work.  No biggie in the scheme of things, then.  :)

I also think that the small section you highlighted in your pic above just happens to be part the *lower section* of the engine turbine itself - but the strange thing is that it looks a bit 'thicker' than the top section.  I always thought that the rim of the 'circular' engine turbines was roughly the *same* thickness at the top and bottom...so that might just be down to the prop buiders, as some of their stuff is 'off' compared to the miniature work in a few instances.  On the other hand, some of the images of this circular rim seem to vary in thickness compared to others, anyway.

 ah well, that solves some questions, so only one turbine is "wrong" ;-)

but about that ring, it is correct and slightly moved, meaning unlike in the screenshot of the game X-Wing, the turbine front is not a clean circle (but it would be if the bottom rim was as broad as the top one)

PS: @Adywan:

Great work on the HiC and wish I needed trees, but I only collect ships ;-)

@Bingowings

My same thoughts, if Adywan wants and can, he will change it, otherwise don't worry that it will withhold the release for too long ;-)

ImperialFighter said:

yoda1138 said:

yoda1138 said:

regarding the engine talk, i noticed this.. see image mock up..

 As its still being discussed, i wonder if my post may have been missed regarding the perspective/ vanishing points. I personally believe the shot filmed was correct in the beginning with no engine removed to film R2. Maybe a wide angle lens was used? if you follow the green line on the right, look at the panel line behind R2 on the deck of the ship. it follows the green line, as do the windows follow the lines on the right. the red hoops are where i'd assume the engine fronts would have been on the ship. actually, i should have but the right hoop a tad lower, as the shot of the xwing is not dead on side view or we wouldn't see the top of the deck at all.  Though, i do think Adys addition of the engine looks aesthetically pleasing.  Thats my 2 cents.

I hadn't missed it yoda1138, so much as I wasn't 100% certain what all the marks on your image were meant to be indicating.  It was a little confusing without any description, but you've cleared things up a bit better now...and I see your analysis is similar to what I was trying to get across in my previous post. :)

So for final clarification...I agree that the engine turbine nearest to us could be argued to be unseen and just offscreen, due to this shot being filmed with an unusual 'distorted' perspective...and the largest red 'oval' on your diagram correctly shows roughly where it might be using this way of looking at it, unlike brimforge's pics.  And on the other hand, if adywan decides to take some 'artistic licence' for visual purposes...then I reckon that Ronster's version shows roughly the best angle/positioning to fit it into the existing shot.

 as ImperialFighter said, I wasn't sure what your diagram meant either ;-)

but in my first post I thought there was a "warp" somehow, that what I.F. called "fisheye" and yoda1138 calls "wide angle lens"

@Asteroid-Man

I wrote, to have used different angles to get the "right" view and yes I didn't use mentioned lens from above, because I don't have this equipment ...

but this shot is somewhat strange after all, the only reason it was made this way, was to show more of R2 (as speculated, the front turbine was removed)

I don't know what is better to remove the back turbine, as to get the "correct view" or make some modification as Ronster suggested

TV's Frink said:

Actually, I didn't really read what you wrote, but I am contractually obligated to post that picture in these situations.

 Thanks ;-)

thing was that everyone whacked the bush without any solid pictures, only speculation on blueprints and onset photos, which are complete other angles ...

ImperialFighter said:

None of the miniature/kit images I looked at really helped me in this instance brimforge, as I couldn't find one taken of that portion of the X-Wing from that exact *angle*...and they didn't really convey the actual size of the large gap between where the Artoo and engine would be on the full-sized studio version.  Also, I'm not sure how accurately-proportioned some of the models I looked at are.  In addition, there may be a bit of difference between how things look when filmed by a movie camera compared to how things look when someone takes a snap of a small model, but I'll be interested to see your pics. 

As your last sentence above suggests, if the camera POV isn't positioned in a vantage point somewhere in the gap between Artoo and engine, then I can alternatively look on it's vantage point as being positioned somewhere where the engine would *physically be* instead.  Either way, I agree the engine would have been 'removed' from view because we wouldn't actually see it from either of these POV's I've described. 

But equally, I like the look of Ronster's mock-up too...although I'm not sure how many similar instances adywan would end up having to do this throughout the original trilogy, or if he'd want to do all that additional work, if so.

 Ok, the camera-angle from where we are viewing, is not from front or level side, it's more up and to the front position, that's why some confusion happened, as to how and what with the turbines ;-)

you are correct, not all models are screensize-acurate and many got some details which are different to the real ones in the movie, but overall the ratio is somewhat useful, if one wants to check position or viewpoints like this.

I made some pics with varying angles, the bottom is a small model-kit, R2 is not plane with his socket, so he sticks out and is more visible than he should be, but this shows what problem the cameraman maybe had, if the front turbine was in place ...

the middle two are from the Hasbro "BIG" Dagobah X-Wing, should be as screen acurate as any toy-model be possible, just for comparison, to show how the turbine would be set if it was in the picture.

All pics are as is, no corrections, only different POV, so the verdict: for better view on R2, the front turbine was removed or as I guess, the set where Luke later enters his X-Wing to fly to Bespin, is on the "other side", so "half" was built and used twice.

Edit: not sure if they had only one X-Wing on set, but it could be. That would mean it was modular to replace or remove parts ...

interesting how Kersher brougth McQarries concept art to life :-)

http://www.moviestillsdb.com/movies/star-wars-episode-v-the-empire-strikes-back-i80684/3119745e

http://www.moviestillsdb.com/movies/star-wars-episode-v-the-empire-strikes-back-i80684/1ef5638a

ImperialFighter said:

If you study the original shot at the top (without getting distracted by Ronster's mock-up belowit), or watch the movie...it always looks to me that because this is quite a 'close-up' camera POV of Artoo, then the viewpoint could be imagined as being either filmed from a point-of-view that's in-between the gap between Artoo and the (unseen) X-Wing engine nearest us...*or* from a point-of-view that's actually filmed from where part of the engine would have been situated, if it wasn't for the camera being positioned there instead.  Either way, we *wouldn't* see the X-Wing engine where Ronster has placed it, the way I normally look at it.

sorry, wrong!

as I wrote above and none cared, I took it upon me to repose the shot with an live-model of the X-Wing, and the result differs very strong, the front engine should be visible, more or less like in Ronsters picture ...

I will post some pics later, but the result would mean, that in studio for better visual the front engine was removed, so to have a better closeup of R2 ;-)

As I was surfing youtube, stumbled upon "Star Wars I-III: A Phantom Edit" by Andrew Kwan (not sure if he has any connection to the old phantom edit)

click here, if you want to check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJA7I_8-14

anyway, watching some of his cutting decisions, leaving some things out or making jumps, gave food for thought:

not really a fan of hard cuts, but the idea to switch scenes, like what was an end point, could easy make an opening => kick off Episode 1 or 2 with Dooku meeting Sidious for example, would open some nice possibilities, from where the story can go ...

I happen to have a model-kit X-Wing at hand to pose this view ...

and the fact is, that the turbines would be both wrong in this shot!

they should be "mirrored", meaning, the front one needs to be more visible and the back one is nearly in the picture.

somehow the cockpit-window is slightly warped, we think to see the side-view, but in reality, the X-Wing is turned to the right (or the body is bent to the other side ...)

well, that is one way to ship around the missing plots and added stuffing ...

I would rather like to see the first or the "clone war" before Episode 1 to be about Jedi against Sith or better Mandalorians (which could haven been the main threat for the Republic back then)

leaving "Jango" as the last Mandalorian warrior, maybe frozen (in carbonite) or encased in a stasis field, waiting to be revived - to be the prototype for the new republic clone army!

and "Boba" could be the last real "shock trooper", remaining from the (last) Clone War(s) ...

still the idea to replace the rather shiny royal starship for a more modest ship. is a nice one, even if it isn't the Falcon ;-)

Bingowings said:

No more superficial than a Tomb ?:-D

Star Wars isn't reality. It's fable and ripe with symbolism.

The notion of a significant object starting out as a shining royal yacht, changing form and becoming a pirate ship but still fighting the good fight is in-keeping with that milieu in my view, though clearly not in yours.

The Falcon isn't just a ship. She's  as much a character as the Tardis or the Enterprise or Trigger.

yeah, the same discussion, we had about "cowboy-hats" again

some think everything "real" should not be in SW, but it is, just slightly changed, but we have Samurai, Cowboys, Pirates, Knights, Wizards ...

the idea to have an "imperial" ship turn "rogue" is classic, see movies like "Captain Blood" ;-) 

well, my take on "shrinkage" would have been, if we tell a story, that is 1000 years old and we still have the same "characters" - but we have our focus on the Skywalker family, so everything they touch is kind of orbiting around them ...

if one wants a "bigger" universe, just don't tell a "family saga", go BIG and turn the wheel of time back to the origins of Jedi and Sith ;-)

I am ok with a prototype of the Falcon, even if we don't recognize it on first sight.

hehe, it could start off as a "luxury yacht" (shame Lando isn't old enough, he could fly in this "casino" from port to port) and between movies it changes the owner, who modifies the in- and outside ;-)

the best idea I read in one thread was, that maybe the old Falcon was in Anakin's (or another side-character's) possession ...

all-in-all a ton of new scenes would have to be made, to make that happen - somewhere in the future ... PT:R

too bad the Falcon wasn't used in any Episode from the PTs ...

maybe your idea can come in later, when we got Episodes VII-IX ;-)