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ZkinandBonez

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Post
#784771
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

darklordoftech said:

ZkinandBonez said:

unamochilla2 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

unamochilla2 said:

rpvee said:

So is "Ren" the new "Sith"?  I hope that wasn't to avoid using the term Sith, since the name did exist long before the prequels.

Hm...

Kylo Ren isn't his real name, but rather a title. He also isn’t a Sith. He’s a member of an organization known as “The Knights Of Ren" and he is allied with the First Order.  Also, his lightsaber isn't a relic - it is something he put together himself.

While the term "Sith" did exist before the PT, I don't believe it was formally used in the OT.  It seems like TFA is going back to the roots of the series.

Although the word Sith was never specifically used in the actual moved, it was a part of the official canon back when they were making the movies.
    "Two metres tall. Bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen - a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship."
- p. 11 of the SW novelization from 1976.      
    "Towering above them in his black cloak and concealing black headgear, Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, entered the main control deck, and the men around him fell silent." 
- p. 42 of the ESB novelization from 1980.
   
"...and finally Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, emerged from the void."
- p. 4 of the ROTJ novelization in 1983.

This is how Vader was introduced in all of the three original novelizations. Always a variation of the same phrase; "Dark Lord of the Sith."

 Did the novels ever go into any detail about the Sith?

Not that I can remember, and frankly I'm too lazy to re-read the three novels again just to find out. 
I literally just scanned the first chapters, looking for the word Sith, and wrote them down. It's been a few years since I read them.
However, from what I remember, the answer is no, I can only remember the term being used in relation to Vader and his "dark" ways. The ESB book definitely gave Vader some very dramatic descriptions, always describing him as a "Dark Lord" and even making a reference to him trying to steal Luke's soul during their fight on Bespin.
However scanning through the end of the ROTJ novel I can't find any references to Palpatine being a Sith. He is however referred to as "the evil one," and the novel gives him some pretty funky descriptions, such as; "his dark majesty," talking about his "wizardry," and describing his face as having "death's grin" and being "lined by holocaust." So the book is definitely trying to sell the character as a sort of tyrannical evil wizard.

When the OT movies and their novelizations were released, I figured that "the Sith" was Vader's Stormtrooper legion, and that Vader, being this legion's leader, was its "Dark Lord." Just like a "Grand Moff" was an Imperial Governor, a "Dark Lord" was an Imperial General. I definitely wasn't expecting "the Sith" to be a two-man dark jedi space illuminati organization who's members backstab each other for no reason. I thought that Vader and The Emperor being the only dark side users was because they weren't part of any order of Force-users, not because of some Rule of Two. I thought that Vader and The Emperor plotting against each other was just because of their personalities, not because of some ancient tradition. 

Here's hoping that the Knights of Ren don't backstab each other. 

I'm pretty sure that the whole Sith thing was something that Lucas had planned from the beginning. Sure, the whole "rule of two" thing is something he added in the PT, but the term Sith always referred to an evil version of the Jedi order. Heck even the rough draft of the ANH script had several members of the "Knights of the Sith" in it. What's interesting is that the way the Sith were described in the rough draft was actually more similar to the Knights of Ren. Not so much evil, but affiliated with the Empire. 
However the OT and the novelizations put a lot of emphasis on the whole Dark Lord thing, and Palpatine being pure evil. Heck just look at (and listen to) his death in ROTJ, it's something you'd expect from Sauron in LOTR. I think the Sith were always meant to be sort of evil wizard cultists.
The thing that I find weird however, that is when taking the EU into account, is how little both Vader and even to some degree Palpatine act as Sith. They're more like Dark Jedi's; hording power for themselves and refusing to join any group other than their own. So Palpatine is more of a disobedient Sith, he follows their evil and mystical ways, but refuses to share it with anyone else, and is quite the backstabber. He's hardly a Sith Knight, or part of any cult, yet he does embody everything about it.  

Post
#784766
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Tobar said:

Teebo? There's already a well established Teebo!

I already gave you Kylo Ren. Stop robbing from long neglected cartoons!

The name Teebo did actually appear in the credits for ROTJ; http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Teebo/Canon 
It is of course possible that the new Teebo is never actually mentioned by name in the film, similarly to Bobbajo

Post
#784749
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

 

At least we now know that this isn't a droid. It seems like some kind of armoured lizard creature, kind of similar to a Dewback.
The guy riding it also looks kind of familiar, have we seen him before in any production images? Or did he exist in the SW universe before TFA?

Looks similar to those gas mask-wearing aliens from the Mos Eisley cantina:

 That's it, I thought he looked familiar. 

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/12/star-wars-force-awakens-character-names/2
The alien is apparently named Teebo (played by Kian Shah), and the creature is called a "luggabeast."

Post
#784694
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

unamochilla2 said:

ZkinandBonez said:

unamochilla2 said:

rpvee said:

So is "Ren" the new "Sith"?  I hope that wasn't to avoid using the term Sith, since the name did exist long before the prequels.

Hm...

Kylo Ren isn't his real name, but rather a title. He also isn’t a Sith. He’s a member of an organization known as “The Knights Of Ren" and he is allied with the First Order.  Also, his lightsaber isn't a relic - it is something he put together himself.

While the term "Sith" did exist before the PT, I don't believe it was formally used in the OT.  It seems like TFA is going back to the roots of the series.

Although the word Sith was never specifically used in the actual moved, it was a part of the official canon back when they were making the movies.
    "Two metres tall. Bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen - a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship."
- p. 11 of the SW novelization from 1976.      
    "Towering above them in his black cloak and concealing black headgear, Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, entered the main control deck, and the men around him fell silent." 
- p. 42 of the ESB novelization from 1980.
   
"...and finally Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, emerged from the void."
- p. 4 of the ROTJ novelization in 1983.

This is how Vader was introduced in all of the three original novelizations. Always a variation of the same phrase; "Dark Lord of the Sith."

 Did the novels ever go into any detail about the Sith?

Not that I can remember, and frankly I'm too lazy to re-read the three novels again just to find out. 
I literally just scanned the first chapters, looking for the word Sith, and wrote them down. It's been a few years since I read them.
However, from what I remember, the answer is no, I can only remember the term being used in relation to Vader and his "dark" ways. The ESB book definitely gave Vader some very dramatic descriptions, always describing him as a "Dark Lord" and even making a reference to him trying to steal Luke's soul during their fight on Bespin.
However scanning through the end of the ROTJ novel I can't find any references to Palpatine being a Sith. He is however referred to as "the evil one," and the novel gives him some pretty funky descriptions, such as; "his dark majesty," talking about his "wizardry," and describing his face as having "death's grin" and being "lined by holocaust." So the book is definitely trying to sell the character as a sort of tyrannical evil wizard.

Post
#784653
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

unamochilla2 said:

rpvee said:

So is "Ren" the new "Sith"?  I hope that wasn't to avoid using the term Sith, since the name did exist long before the prequels.

Hm...

Kylo Ren isn't his real name, but rather a title. He also isn’t a Sith. He’s a member of an organization known as “The Knights Of Ren" and he is allied with the First Order.  Also, his lightsaber isn't a relic - it is something he put together himself.

While the term "Sith" did exist before the PT, I don't believe it was formally used in the OT.  It seems like TFA is going back to the roots of the series.

Although the word Sith was never specifically used in the actual moved, it was a part of the official canon back when they were making the movies.
    "Two metres tall. Bipedal. Flowing black robes trailing from the figure and a face forever masked by a functional if bizarre black metal breath screen - a Dark Lord of the Sith was an awesome, threatening shape as it strode through the corridors of the rebel ship."
- p. 11 of the SW novelization from 1976.      
    "Towering above them in his black cloak and concealing black headgear, Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, entered the main control deck, and the men around him fell silent." 
- p. 42 of the ESB novelization from 1980.
   
"...and finally Darth Vader, Lord of the Sith, emerged from the void."
- p. 4 of the ROTJ novelization in 1983.

This is how Vader was introduced in all of the three original novelizations. Always a variation of the same phrase; "Dark Lord of the Sith."

Post
#784601
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Anyway; anyone have a thought on this?

It looks like it's the same object, and in the Look and Find picture it looks like some kind of large droid dog.

 

At least we now know that this isn't a droid. It seems like some kind of armoured lizard creature, kind of similar to a Dewback.
The guy riding it also looks kind of familiar, have we seen him before in any production images? Or did he exist in the SW universe before TFA?

Post
#784468
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Am I the only one who thinks that the guy standing up front looks like general Hux? He seems to have the same reddish hair colour and he's wearing the same jacket. The ears also look kind of similar. 

Also, as have been pointed out before, the First Order seems to be much more diverse than the Empire was. I assume that the person with the metal helmet is Phasma, which we already know is a woman. And on her right, standing in the back is a black man dressed in the same outfit. That's quite a big change from the all white British-talking males of the Empire in the OT. I assume this is something they borrowed from the EU which also had the Empire turn more diverse after the events of ROTJ. 

Post
#783660
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

A TFA Lego product list slated for a December release might possibly have revealed the name of one of the new planets that will appear in the film; Takodana.
http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/08/leaked-2016-lego-product-list-leak-confirms-planet-name.html 

Also, I can't remember having seen this picture on this thread before, so I'll just post it here now:

Post
#783648
Topic
Design failures (and successes) of the PT
Time

ray_afraid said:

I agree with everything ZkinandBonez said.
I actually like most of the designs in TPM!

I've always kind of liked TPM despite it's flaws because it's the only PT film that actually feels like a bad Star Wars movie. I prefer my bad SW movies to at least look like they are SW movies. Episode II and III just didn't feel like SW to me.

However, one of my least favourite designs in the entire PT trilogy is Dexter's Diner. It looks like something that belongs in an episode of Futurama.





This droid looks like it belongs in an episode of the Jetsons.
I'm also not a fan of the 50's and 60's retro vibe. It's just to obvious to me. It's a design that I think would have been very funny in a different Sci-Fi film, but it feels very out of place in a SW film I think. It's a bit too obvious.

Post
#783647
Topic
Design failures (and successes) of the PT
Time

ray_afraid said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

ray_afraid said:

I hate the PT lightsaber handles though. They just don't look the same as the ones in the OT.

The PT lightsabers in general or just the ones that are meant to be the same lightsabers used by Ben and Luke in the OT? 

 Oh, I mean the new ones.
I don't remember if the ones that are supposed to be the OT ones are good or not.
I remember Dukoos, and I actually liked it.
I just remember all the ones in TPM looking stupid. And cheap.

 
Obi-Wan's first lightsaber, and Qui-Gon's lightsaber.

 
Obi-Wan's second lightsaber (ANH, AOTC & ROTS), and Anakin/Luke's lightsaber. Vader's lightsaber is practically the same design, only in black.

There's definitely a big change in lightsaber designs between the OT and the PT. But then again they were very different in the OT as well. The TPM ones seems more standardized, whereas Obi-Wan'a second lightsaber, which is almost identical to Luke's green saber look more like they've been put together using spare parts. Anakin/Vader's two lightsabers on the other hand always looked more stylized. Might be a reflection Anakin/Vader's ego, whereas Obi-Wan's lighsaber, and later Luke's, have more of a practical look.

It was really AOTC and ROTS who went all out with weird lightsaber designs. Dooku obviously had his weird bent lightsaber hilt, and Palpatine/Sidious' lightsaber was practically made out of gold and silver. 

Post
#783559
Topic
Design failures (and successes) of the PT
Time

I've always felt that Naboo was one of the "good parts" of TPM. Not only is Theed a very pretty-looking location, but it was one of the few PT locations that felt like it could belong in the SW-universe, while at the same time being different from anything we had previously seen. 
And although I realize there are people who really despise queen Amidala's wardrobe, I can't quite shake that feeling that had TPM not been as poorly written (and had no Jar Jar to ruin everyone's mood) I think people would have remembered her strange look much more fondly.

  
Amidala's design being inspired by Mongolian royalty kind of fits into the SW's general style, which was originally heavily influenced by Japanese culture. If Vader's design was based on samurai generals, why not Mongolian rayalty in the PT?

And maybe this is a somewhat controversial opinion, but I actually kind of like the design of the Gungans. Of course their silly behavior, not to mention their speech, leave much to be desired. But again, had the characters been written differently, but the design kept exactly the same, I think we would have liked them a whole lot more.

   

Heck, even Jar Jar looked kind of cool in some of the early concept art ideas.


I really like this painting. Jar Jar actually looks like a dignified character, rather than being the complete goof he turned out to be. I'm curious as to who actually made this as it shows a very different version of Jar Jar than all the other concept art that was made.

All in all I think that the design of TPM is it's strong side. It may be a bit strange some times but it wasn't as out of place in the SW-universe as many of the Ep. II and III design choices were. The real sinner in TPM was George's mediocre writing, retconning and terrible attempts at humour.

However since this thread is mostly about bad designs I'll finish by showing what is possibly the ugliest concept art for Jar Jar I have yet to see. Seriously this design is so ugly it actually makes me appreciate the current design to some degree.

Post
#783344
Topic
The Prequels as Envisioned by the (Pre-PT) Expanded Universe
Time

I realize I'm a fair bit late to discussion, but I just thought I should share this:

"Silent Drifting" from 1979. 

Wookiepedia plot summary:
"After Han Solo used some skillful piloting of the Millenium Falcon to destroy some TIE fighter, Princess Leia mentioned that Jedi pilots developed that same maneuver and she tells of one particular event involving Obi-Wan Kenobi. Kenobi was traveling as a passenger on a pleasure cruiser when he was notified by Captain Quasar that Merson pirates had been spotted in the Merson asteroid field....."

It almost seems like it was written specifically to avoid any possible contradictions to Lucas' still developing canon (I'm guessing they were aware of ESB being in production at this time). It makes no reference to either the Clone Wars or Anakin. However it does show a considerably cockier Obi-Wan than we got in the PT, and it's interesting how he was simply travelling as a passenger on a "pleasure cruise." It's quite the deviation of the monk-like Jedis of the PT. Obi-Wan does however turn down an "addictive stimulant" at some point, so he's still the disciplined warrior that was implied in the OT.
Obi-Wan also seems to be wearing a costume somewhat similar to what Luke ended up with in ROTJ. Which is interesting considering that this was written in 1979.

I also found a interesting pre-prequel reference to C-3PO's origins: 

According to some notes made by Lucas in 1977 he was constructed at a Cybot Galactica plant on the planet Affa in 112 BBY.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Affa
(The EU has apparently retconned this into the TPM/PT lore so that he was originally built on Affa only to later be dismantled and discarded on the streets of Mos Espa where Anakin eventually found and rebuilt him.)

Post
#782891
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

.Mac. said:

ZkinandBonez said:


It also interesting how Phasma doesn't have a textured head under the helmet. We already know who plays the character, so why bother making it a mystery. Makes you wonder if there's something special going on about Phasma.

That's what I am curious about too. I was thinking "well maybe it's just because she'll never be seen taking her helmet off, as Boba Fett didn't either in the OT, therefore adding to the mystery of the character?" ...but even the Boba Fett Lego minifig has a face (thanks to the PT?)... So yeah I'm wondering also why hers is just black. Maybe she is actually a cyborg/droid and her face/head is just the helmet that we see? Not sure I'd like that, though.

You're probably right about her face remaining a mystery in TFA. And yes, Boba Fett having a face on the current Legos is a PT thing. I went looking through my old SW Legos that I got when I was about seven or eight years old, which was right after TPM had come out, and a few years before AOTC retconned his appearance. And what do you know, Boba Fett didn't have a face, just a black head like Phasma has now; http://i.imgur.com/didxLGc.jpg

Post
#782490
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

SS4DarthPayne said:

ZkinandBonez said:

SS4DarthPayne said:

Ok, not posted here yet, so here are some leaked pics of the Lego sets:

http://imgur.com/a/P3cOh

I've seen some mixed thoughts on Poe's X-Wing color scheme, but personally I'm a big fan of it. I was also immediately most interested in the guy in the middle of this picture: http://i.imgur.com/wD6dUoX.jpg thinking that maybe it was some new and or important person. Anyone have thoughts on that? However, it may not be that special, as some people are thinking it is merely this guy: http://www.starwars7news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Jakku-BTS.jpg

I'm pretty sure that the guy you're referring to in the last link is just Finn in disguise.


It also interesting how Phasma doesn't have a textured head under the helmet. We already know who plays the character, so why bother making it a mystery. Makes you wonder if there's something special going on about Phasma.

(I also posted some of these pictures on the forum about a week ago;
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THE-FORCE-AWAKENS-Episode-VII-Discussion-SPOILER-THREAD-See-OP-For-Trailer-Links/topic/16649/page/143/)

 

Damn, didn't see that. My bad, I normally follow this thread pretty closely. Do you have a particular reason you think it's Finn in disguise? That thought hadn't occurred to me

Well now that I looked at the pictures again it occurred to me that you were probably referring to the two masked guys in the background. Was that the case? Since you said "this guy" I assumed you meant the guy in the foreground with the goggles, which does look like Finn wearing some kind of disguise. 

As for the Lego guy with the mask, I have no clue. He doesn't really look like any of the people on the picture to me. Of course it could be that the scene that that picture is from has several masked aliens. We'll just have to wait and see.

Post
#782286
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

SS4DarthPayne said:

Ok, not posted here yet, so here are some leaked pics of the Lego sets:

http://imgur.com/a/P3cOh

I've seen some mixed thoughts on Poe's X-Wing color scheme, but personally I'm a big fan of it. I was also immediately most interested in the guy in the middle of this picture: http://i.imgur.com/wD6dUoX.jpg thinking that maybe it was some new and or important person. Anyone have thoughts on that? However, it may not be that special, as some people are thinking it is merely this guy: http://www.starwars7news.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Jakku-BTS.jpg

I'm pretty sure that the guy you're referring to in the last link is just Finn in disguise.


It also interesting how Phasma doesn't have a textured head under the helmet. We already know who plays the character, so why bother making it a mystery. Makes you wonder if there's something special going on about Phasma.

(I also posted some of these pictures on the forum about a week ago;
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THE-FORCE-AWAKENS-Episode-VII-Discussion-SPOILER-THREAD-See-OP-For-Trailer-Links/topic/16649/page/143/)

 

Post
#781863
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

joefavs said:

Dagobah's lousy with regular old Earth lizards and snakes. Pigs don't seem like a leap at all. None of that matters anyway, though, since at the end of the day it's just a surname.

It doesn't really matter, I was just being a nitpick. SW is a fantasy/sci-fi universe which can have pretty much anything the creators want to put into it. So why not pigs. They already have humans, regular birds, lizards and snakes, so why not pigs as well?

And speaking of the creators being able to put into SW whatever the heck they feel like, I just remembered the giant pig creature that will be appearing on Jakku in TFA.

 

Post
#781861
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

ray_afraid said:

^Right. Which is why they can nickname someone Porkins even though there may or may not be pigs in space. It's for the audience to relate to. Like Han saying "I'll see you in Hell!" That doesn't necessarily mean there's a religion in that galaxy that believes in Heaven and Hell.

Right. Same reason someone can be called Droopy McCool or Wicket W. Warrick. It doesn't always have to make perfect sense. It is after all a set of films about fictional characters. I often wish the EU writers would realize this. I can't help but roll my eyes sometimes when I read about characters or species on Wookiepedia.
For example; you can get a pretty extensive analysis of the biolgy and appearance of the Sarlacc. I personally can't help but feel that we never needed an answers to these kinds of questions, and that many of them should never have been answered.  I actually preffered to not know what a full Sarlacc looked like. I enjoyed the mystery surrounding the image of a large gaping mouth in the desert. It had a nice and weird fantasy feel to it. It was more about impact, than an attempt at realism. But now it's just another funky-looking animal that you can look up on a wiki. 
You kind of lose some of the magic with this kind of over-analysis. It don't need a full explanation, it's not real life. 

Post
#781854
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

They have pigs in the SW universe?

Why not? The original humans must have brought other terrestrial animals with them when they left Earth for the galaxy far, far away.

That's a very literal interpretation of why there's humans ins SW.
I'm pretty there are humans in SW because weird looking aliens from a galaxy far, far away would have been hard to identify with. Also you have to keep in mind that SW is more fantasy than sci-fi, so the reason there's humans there is pretty much the same reason they're in Middle Earth; because we need someone familiar to identify with. 

Post
#781804
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

ray_afraid said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Included with the Millennium Falcon set however is a man called Tasu Leech

Yet another silly TFA name to add to the list of silly TFA names. Is that the sixth one, now? Seventh?

Still a less silly name than Porkins.

 Oh, come on.. Porkins was obviously his nickname. Sheesh.

They have pigs in the SW universe?
I'm pretty sure it was just Lucas trying to be funny.

Post
#781663
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Included with the Millennium Falcon set however is a man called Tasu Leech

Yet another silly TFA name to add to the list of silly TFA names. Is that the sixth one, now? Seventh?

Still a less silly name than Porkins.
Also maybe it's a nickname, he is a gang member after all. And of course the official canon before Disney changed it had a swoop gang leader called Big Gizz.

I don't understand the strong reactions to these names, SW has always had some pretty silly names, especially for supporting characters and villains. 

Anyway; anyone have a thought on this?

It looks like it's the same object, and in the Look and Find picture it looks like some kind of large droid dog.

Post
#781613
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Images of the Lego sets for Poe Dameron's X-Wing and the Millenium Falcon have been released and they reveal a few interesting details and new character from TFA.

http://www.starwars7news.com/2015/07/poe-damerons-black-x-wing-and-the-millennium-falcon-lego-sets-revealed.html

First off; we now got confirmation that BB-8 is actually Poe's droid as he comes with the X-Wing set.
Poe's X-Wing's got a pretty unusual paint-job as well.

Included with the Millennium Falcon set however is a man called Tasu Leech and a Kanjiklub member. I guess these two would be the ones who stole the Falcon and brought it to Jakku? It's interesting how one of them is just a "member," while the other has a name. It's possible then that he might have some relevance to the plot. Presumably he's some old acquaintance of Han Solo. Another interesting detail is that their weapons look kind of primitive. Of course it's hard to tell exactly with legos, but it looks like a musket and a pistol.

Post
#781424
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Imrahil said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Imrahil said:

 

Writing.  Like a screenplay, not a novel--but with lots of dashes, and constantly violating the "show, don't tell rule"--as it screams through the action.

Sentence fragments.

Irritation.

How do you "show" rather than "tell" in a novel? I'm pretty sure that's the one thing you can't do.

 

Really?

Well, in case you're being serious...you don't say 

"Wedge was sad. His dog was sick."

You say,

"Hi Wedge," Luke said, and didn't get a response. He looked at the other pilot, who seemed distracted.

"Wedge? What's up?"

"Huh? Oh, sorry Luke. I'm...well. I've been better."

Then you cut to later and reveal bit by bit that he has a sick dog, through facial expressions, dialog, etc.

Obviously the story shouldn't hinge on whether Wedge has a sick dog, but that's what the "show, don't tell" rule means.

In the excerpt from the novel, on the other hand, we have:

"“Of course,” he says, his jaundiced face tight with that grin. Tothwin is an emblem of what’s wrong with the Imperial forces now: Many of their best are gone. What’s left is, in part, the dregs."

and:

"The pressure is on. An almost literal pressure—like a fist pressing against her back, pushing the air out of her lungs.

Her chance to excel."

Ugh. So horrible.

Well I wasn't arguing that it was well written. Far from it. I was just being somewhat pedantic and therefore found the statement "show, don't tell" somewhat out of place when describing a medium that is all about "telling" a story rather than "showing" it. There are of course bad and obvious ways to tell the reader something. 
Also isn't your first example about Wedge and his dog more of a screenplay way of "showing" something? Of course I'm not saying that "Wedge was sad. His dog was sick" is the right solution. But slowly revealing that he's distracted, then "cut to later" and revealing that his dog is sick through facial expressions and dialogue, that's a very cinematic way to "show" something.

Post
#781416
Topic
Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

Imrahil said:

 

Writing.  Like a screenplay, not a novel--but with lots of dashes, and constantly violating the "show, don't tell rule"--as it screams through the action.

Sentence fragments.

Irritation.

How do you "show" rather than "tell" in a novel? I'm pretty sure that's the one thing you can't do.