ZkinandBonez

Wow, really?
And I though SW marketing was crazy before Disney bought it.

TK428 said:

Fun write up of said deleted scenes here:

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-force-awkens-deleted-scenes/

I’m not sure what this guys source is, but it’s interesting to read that the lightsaber in space thing was actually filmed.
And it seems like I was wrong about them not having filmed the earlier scenes with Leia talking about the Republic. At least the fan-edit guys will be very happy.

This was a very interesting little detail (specifically the last sentence);
"In the original script, Maz Kanata had Force powers. After the First Order begins their attack on the castle, Maz used her Force powers to cause the ceiling to cave in on a group of stormtroopers that had them cornered. In the sequence, Han Solo was forced to stall the stormtroopers to allow Maz to concentrate. There was a funny back and forth between him and the trooper. Han runs out of things to say so he rats out Finn, revealing that he recognized Finn’s stormtrooper boots — this is how he knew he wasn’t Resistance."

The novelization also seems to confirm that Kylo is aware of Vader’s redemption, but that Snoke has portrayed it as a moment of weakness that resulted in the fall of the Empire, hance Kylo struggle with the light side of the Force.

Alderaan said:

mes1983 said:
Let’s put it this way: do you think Vader had “elite” troopers with him in ANH, when he is boarding the Tantive iv? They sure don’t look like it… And that could be considered as an equally important mission.

They all did as they were told and they all did what was expected of them. There wasn’t a stormtrooper on board who suddenly thought “naaaaah…I didn’t sign up for this!” and then helped Leia and the Droids escape.

Well, it was never necessary to the plot. That’s why it never happened. Again, these are movies, they follow plots, not real life logic. However, over thirty years later they needed to come up with a new angle, so they followed your sense of logic, and this time it made sense plot-wise, and that’s why it’s never happened until now.
Also, It’s not like people haven’t had this idea before, and that’s pretty much why there has always been an EU to explore ideas that ‘make sense’ within the lore, but that’s completely unnecessary to the overall, pre-established, plot.

I’m glad to see that my scale of “Citizen Kane - Ed Wood” has had an impact.

Also I agree that it’s important to judge a film by what it’s trying to accomplish. In that regard I’ll agree that ANH and ESB are pretty much perfect SW films, whereas ROTJ failed slightly, and TFA accomplished it fairly well.
I would personally rate TPM slightly higher though, or at least equal to ROTS, because it actually managed to get the look and atmosphere of SW pretty well, although everything else was either mediocre or just plain bad.
On a more generalized cinematic rating scale however I’d still have to knock down even the best SW films a point or two.

pittrek said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Well, seems like the TFA Blu-ray/DVD will be released April 5, 2016.
Abrams have also said that a good portion of the deleted scenes will be made available.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/star-wars-the-force-awakens-blu-ray-aiming-at-april-5-2016-release-date.html

So again only “a good portion of” the deleted scenes? Is he REALLY going to repeat the Star Trek Into Darkness home video fiasco ?

Abrams is hardly the guy making the calls here though? It seemed that he didn’t know what would make it into the Blu-ray, but that he had been told that some of it would be included. You can blame a director for a lot of things, but what makes it into the Blu-ray is rarely one of them.

joefavs said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Well, seems like the TFA Blu-ray/DVD will be released April 5, 2016.
Abrams have also said that a good portion of the deleted scenes will be made available.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/star-wars-the-force-awakens-blu-ray-aiming-at-april-5-2016-release-date.html

I hope that bit from the novelization where Leia sends an envoy to the senate on Hosnian Prime is in there. I think that one scene would clear up a lot of the vagueness about the state of the galaxy that a lot of folks have problems with.

Maybe, but it seems unlikely that they even filmed it considering that it happened before Leia’s first appearance on Takodona. It seem unlikely to me that they ever considered putting it into the film, but it’s not impossible.
We do however know from the BTS footage that was shown on the Disney channel that they did film an Unkar Plutt scene on Takodona, so I think that’s very likely to appear. Unless of course Disney find it too violent, which is probably why it was cut in the first place.

joefavs said:

The quote’s from a Kasdan interview that may have already been posted in one of the TFA threads, but Larry says Episode VIII is going to be “weird”:
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-8-is-going-to-be-weird-promises-screenwriter-a6788031.html

Let’s hope.

Agreed. This actually makes me genuinely excited(er).

I also agree with Duracell; we got snubbed of a semi-Lynchian Star Wars film in the 80’s so I want something that’s at least vaguely similar. A Dune-ish vibe to an SW film could be really cool.
Of course I suspect Kasdan is just referencing a Force-moment similar to the Dagobah cave scene in ESB, but even that would be awesome. Now that lightsaber can give you visions, I’m hoping Johnson will take it somewhere further. I’m tired of the Force being treated as a pre-set roster of superpowers, I wan’t it to be weird, magical, and I want new abilities. It doesn’t need to Dark Empire weird (although I’d honestly watch that with great enthusiasm), but I want something mystical.

Well, seems like the TFA Blu-ray/DVD will be released April 5, 2016.
Abrams have also said that a good portion of the deleted scenes will be made available.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/star-wars-the-force-awakens-blu-ray-aiming-at-april-5-2016-release-date.html

DuracellEnergizer said:

So far, the closest thing I’ve found to a pre-PT Wookieepedia has been this page:

http://deckplans.00sf.com/Main/Research.html

I’ve found it to be an invaluable resource in separating the proverbial wheat from the chaff.

Why are there bible quotes in the corner?

Well, either way, it seem like a nice little index of what’s mentioned where in the novels.

Alderaan said:

Yoda taught Obi-Wan. When and where he taught Obi-Wan is never established and it’s irrelevant anyway. Coruscant, midi-chlorians, none of that bullshit exists in the OT. What is known is that Obi-Wan taught Anakin, and they became friends. Anakin was then seduced by the dark side and became Darth Vader, the Emperor’s new apprentice.

Not that I’m disagreeing (because I completely agree that the PT has no authority over the OT which came first), but just to be nitpicky, Coruscant has been part of the canon since the beginning. The name is technically from the EU, it’s from the Thrawn trilogy I believe, but the Imperial capital / ex Republic capital, has been mentioned since the beginning. In some of the early drafts I believe it was even referred to as Utapau.

Alderaan said:
From there, Vader betrayed his fellow Jedi and helped the new Galactic Empire kill nearly all of them. Only Obi-Wan, Yoda, baby Luke and Leia remained. How the others were all killed, indeed how many were killed is never stated and also irrelevant to the Star Wars story. The only information that matters is that Obi-Wan took Luke and his aunt and uncle and went into hiding on Tatooine, Leia was taken to Alderaan, and Yoda lived on Dagobah. There is no hint that Yoda went into exile; rather, it always seemed to me that Dagobah was his home planet, and the reason he was never discovered was because Vader and the Emperor didn’t even know who he existed. In all of Vader’s dialogue in the OT, he mentions Obi-Wan’s name many times, but never says the name of Yoda even once. The only inference that can be made is that he (and therefore the Emperor) did not know who Yoda was.

In the novelization of ROTJ, which was offical canon, e.g. Lucas canon, not just EU canon, has Palpatine mention Yoda in a very vague way. After having asked Luke who finished his training he says; “There was one called… Yoda. An aged Master Jed…Ah, I see by your countenance that I have hit a chord…Yoda, then.” He even asks Luke if he’s still alive, so Yoda was never as important as he was made up to be in the PT.

Alderaan said:
The only explanation for why Luke Skywalker was able to live and grow up with Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru is that they too were in exile. Obi-Wan must have taken both of them with Luke into exile on Tatooine, and ordered them to raise the boy. It’s not possible in the OT for the Skywalkers to have come from Tatooine originally, otherwise Kenobi and Luke and his aunt/uncle would have all been found and destroyed.

Also your idea that Obi-Wan took Owen and Beru into hiding as well is a pretty interesting idea that I’ve never heard before. That could explain why Owen resents him so much. Tatooine isn’t exactly the nicest place in the galaxy.
However in the novelization of ROTJ, like I said before, technically Lucas canon, Owen is actually Obi-Wan’s brother.

DuracellEnergizer said:

ZkinandBonez said:
I really wish Wookieepedia had a pre-PT “Legends” section. It’s hard to keep track of all the old WEG Sourcebooks, and the Galaxy Guide books are mostly just over-glorified SW dictionaries.

Agreed. It’s annoying trying to find info on a particular person, place, or thing from the early EU only to find post-PT revisions mixed in with the old info.

If anyone were ta make a Pre-PT SW wiki I’d contribute to it. Also a lot of articles, such as those that merely summarize and old comic or novel could just be copy-pasted. It would just be nice to separate it from all the retconning.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I’m not saying that the Daley, Neil, Marvel, etc. books weren’t considered canon in the EU, just that they didn’t rely on the WEG books for info.

As an aside, though, I’ll just say I hate that the Marvel comics were later considered part of the EU; seeing those great stories forced into the EU’s unworthy joke of a continuity was extremely distasteful to me.

Ah, right.

However I feel like the old EU should be separated into two categories; pre-PT & post-PT. There were some silly stories at the beginning, but the truly nonsensical stuff, not to mention the retconning happened after Dark Horse had to make everything fit with the PT.

DuracellEnergizer said:

boredom3031 said:

Only bit of “EU” that didn’t rely on the WEG game that I can think of is probably splinter of the mind’s eye.

You’re forgetting The Han Solo Adventures by Brian Daley, The Lando Calrissian Adventures by L. Neil Smith, and the Star Wars/Droids/Ewoks comics published by Marvel. 😛

I’m pretty sure that the Brian Daley novels were still considered canon in the 90’s. I have a PDF copy of a WEG book called “Han Solo and the Corporate Sector Sourcebook” from 1993. The Corporate Sector was almost exclusively in the Han Solo Adventures.

Also according to Wookieepedia most of the Marvel comics still counts as canon, although with a few tweaks here and there. Which suits me fine, as some of the early Marvel content is surprisingly good.

I really wish Wookieepedia had a pre-PT “Legends” section. It’s hard to keep track of all the old WEG Sourcebooks, and the Galaxy Guide books are mostly just over-glorified SW dictionaries.

Did he leave a map for someone to find though? I thought the whole map thing had to do with the location of the first Jedi temple? Also the section of the map that Sydow (still can’t remember the character name) gave to Poe, wasn’t it parts of the Unknown Regions, which is where the First Order seem to he hiding in this canon? I also seem to recall something about Imperial charts, or something like that.
Anyway, I thought it was more a matter of finding out where Luke had gone, as opposed to him leaving clues for people to find.

You could argue that the ending of ROTJ is more of an emotional book-end to the trilogy, giving off a sense of victory and conclusion, while lore-wise and logically it’s never actually implied that they won the entire war. Movies aren’t about politics, they’re about people and their personal conflicts, and all of these conflicts (e.g. the important one to most viewers) are solved by the end of ROTJ. Luke redeems Vader, Luke finishes his “spiritual” journey, Leia ends up with Han, etc. etc. All we actually see is roughly 20 Rebel pilots celebrating with a bunch of Ewoks. Ok, sure, the SE has the galaxy celebrate victory and freedom, but I don’t think I have to sell the argument that that’s a retcon to anyone here.
However, if you stop and think about what’s going on in the lore, as most people won’t bother to do, then you realize that the end of ROTJ may have been a huge victory, but the galaxy is still filled with the Imperial army and the Rebel Alliance is still a pretty small military force. What ROTJ’s ending sets up lore-wise could easily evolve into the two scenarios we now have; the TFA/Disney one and the old EU one.

According to this guy from Lucasfilm TFA was at some point in the production known as “Shadow of the Empire.”
(I guess Abrams and Kasdan never heard of “ShadowS of the Empire.”)
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/pablo-hidalgo-reveals-the-original-title-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html

I figured this was appropriate since they’re planning yet another Indy film. One of these days something like this is bound to happen.

I haven’t actually played any of them but I’ve scourged the internet for PDF versions simply to read (especially the Sourcebooks). They’re pretty interesting as simply EU material. Many of the old EU writers like Zahn would even use them to “check his facts” within the SW universe.
I think they’re a great source for pre-PT SW canon.

I’m pretty sure I heard Vader’s breathing during that moment in the scene so I’m pretty sure it’s just a flashback.

It’s a big galaxy torn between two superpowers, so yeah, why wouldn’t the story of “guerrilla” soldiers three decades ago be history somewhere, legend somewhere else, and just plain propaganda lies in other places.
Also if you lived on a junk planet and some old guy told you the tale of the young farm boy turned wizard-warrior who helped take down the Galactic Empire, would you have believed him? You’d probably take these stories as legends, folktales, or at the very least apocryphal re-tellings of history. Also doubt Jakku had history books. Maybe Hosnian Prime, but not Jakku.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

ZkinandBonez said:

pittrek said:

Was the “who are you ? I am noone” bit from the trailer(s) in the movie?

No. It’s probably from the 20 min. they cut.

EDIT: According to the novelization they seem to have cut quite a lot from that part of the film.

Is the novelisation worth a read? I’m curious about these missing bits.

I haven’t actually read the book. I’ve only read a lot of plot summaries/reviews and they all mention that there’s a lot more “lore” information. Plus there’s a whole sequence with Unkar Plutt in Kanata’s castle. Which judging by BTS footage they did shoot it.
However, as soon as it’s available where I live I’m getting a copy.

pittrek said:

Was the “who are you ? I am noone” bit from the trailer(s) in the movie?

No. It’s probably from the 20 min. they cut.

EDIT: According to the novelization they seem to have cut quite a lot from that part of the film.

Are you talking about general Dodonna in ANH?
This guy?; http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jan_Dodonna

That might even be why he hates Luke, because he blames him for having “corrupted” Vader to the light side. Hence the whole “I’ll finish what you started.”

Also his obsession with Vader/Anakin relics might have to do with Force imprints. Maybe he wants to get as much out of them as possible, regardless of what eventually happened to Vader. If the imprints can be used somehow, then Anakin’s lightsaber should be really valuable as it was present when he turned from the light to the dark side.

Well, I’ve said it before. Few people hate TFA, and most people seem to agree on what it does right and wrong. It’s just funny how people fluctuate between negativity and positivity. I give TFA a 6/10, but I actually really like the film. Someone else gives it the same score, but don’t necessarily like it. I guess it all depends on whether you focus on the pros or the cons.