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Wexter

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Join date
29-Sep-2008
Last activity
21-Mar-2020
Posts
353

Post History

Post
#1322031
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

StarkillerAG said:

I agree. TLJ may have been a very mixed movie, but at least Rian had the courage to tell the story he wanted to tell. Both of JJ’s movies have just been 2 hours of responding to fan complaints, and they feel soulless because of it. I wish Rian directed the whole trilogy.

Personally I would have preferred someone with better feel for the Star Wars lore, but I’ll absolutely take Rian’s singular vision over that of three different guys that don’t talk to each other.

Post
#1321935
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

This is a great example of why it was so stupid for JJ and co. to try to appease the fans. The fans have already made up their minds. You can try to fight something like the “Mary Sue” label, but people will just reinterpret anything to make it fit their narrative. Might as well continue forward with the character as written rather than try to make those happy who will always find some way to complain.

It’s also very stupid to constantly seek validation from fans online. So what if I don’t like some of the narrative decisions they made. They should have still tried to make the best out of it. They should have the balls to stand behind their own decisions. With TROS they just went out of their way to try and address everything you could possibly read online about the sequel trilogy. That goes at the expense of coherent storytelling.

I didn’t like TLJ but at least I could respect it for what it was apparently trying to do. TROS is just pathetic.

Post
#1321591
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread — * <strong>SPOILERS</strong> *
Time

OutboundFlight said:

Am I the only one who feels Rey Palpatine is far more compelling than “Rey nobody”?

Should have been Rey Skywalker from the get-go. But they just had to do the mystery box thing, because then your narrative ideas don’t get so easily challenged right away.

Rey nobody is the second best, though.

Post
#1320370
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

You kind of just described the OT. We never really see the effect of the Empire on the galaxy at large. Only how it relates to the rebellion and our main characters. The only reason we know of the Empire’s reach is because it’s called “the Empire”.

This is simply not true. We see the Empire terrorize the citizens of Tatooine and Bespin, having spies and mercenaries everywhere, shattering the residues of the old Republic with the dissolution of Senate and destruction of Alderaan, which itself is supposed to be a clear message towards potentially dissenting systems.

Sure, the First Order somehow built the SKB, but that was supposedly a one-off device with no clear follow-up and nobody really reacts to the obliteration of several systems. My point still stands.

Almost everything you mentioned has a 1:1 counterpart in the sequel trilogy.

Sure it does, because, well, pretty much everything that happens in the sequel trilogy has a counterpart in the OT.

Except in the OT the Empire was clearly the galactic government. The ST supposedly starts with the New Republic in power, but it just fizzles out right away and presumably the First Order takes over. Hard to tell for sure, since most of it just happens off-screen.

I know we don’t see much political development in the OT either, but the stage is well described by the title crawls and several characters (especially Obi-Wan, Leia, the imperials, and, if you count the novelization and/or deleted scenes, Biggs).

Post
#1320323
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Of course they could have made a much more personal story without the need to flesh out the political state of the Galaxy. It’s just complicated when some of the most prominent characters are a “supreme leader”, a general princess and the last Jedi master. Not calling for six hours of Senate meetings here, just a clear idea about the current state of the Galaxy. But I guess that’s just another mystery box.

Post
#1320316
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

You kind of just described the OT. We never really see the effect of the Empire on the galaxy at large. Only how it relates to the rebellion and our main characters. The only reason we know of the Empire’s reach is because it’s called “the Empire”.

This is simply not true. We see the Empire terrorize the citizens of Tatooine and Bespin, having spies and mercenaries everywhere, shattering the residues of the old Republic with the dissolution of Senate and destruction of Alderaan, which itself is supposed to be a clear message towards potentially dissenting systems.

Sure, the First Order somehow built the SKB, but that was supposedly a one-off device with no clear follow-up and nobody really reacts to the obliteration of several systems. My point still stands.

Post
#1320269
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

Post
#1320006
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

I disagree, a story is like looking at a finished picture puzzle, the specifics are the pieces that make the puzzle, if you have two puzzles with different pieces but end up with the same picture it’s really irrelevant that the pieces were different.

But what you’re describing is that the whole picture is just the plot. That’s silly. The picture would be the story. The plot would just be what the shapes are that put the pieces together. But it’s a bad analogy.

Think of it more like a building. The plot is just the foundation. It’s what you build on top of that that really matters.

So would be up for episodes 10, 11 and 12 that would culminate with the protagonist defeating Palpatine once again? Also, bear in mind that this hypothetical protagonist is an offspring of a dark figure from the past. Snoke’s nephew, perhaps. Or Dooku’s great-granddaughter.

Post
#1319749
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

Cthulhunicron said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

StarkillerAG said:

pleasehello said:

Valheru_84 said:

You’re not meant to stop and think and try to make sense of it all Hal 😉

You jest, but it’s true. That’s the way Star Wars has always been. It’s emotional, not logical. None of it makes any sense logically and if you think about the viability of certain plot elements in those terms, it falls apart. So no, you’re not meant to make sense of it all.

That’s not the way it used to be. The OT makes sense, every action is justified.

The walkers don’t make sense. Neither does the two-dimensional space flight. Nor the idea of a giant slug being sexually attracted to humanoid women.

Apples and oranges. There’s a slight suspension of disbelief with the original three movies. TROS is complete nonsense by comparison. Palpatine is resurrected with no explanation. The Sith Eternal somehow create a fleet bigger than the First Order with no explanation. The Sith fleet can’t leave Exegol even though apparently ships have been coming and going for decades. A gigantic piece of the Death Star survives the explosion in ROTJ and re-entry through an atmosphere with no explanation. Ochi for some reason has a dagger that is shaped to fit along the skyline of the wreckage, and for some reason it has Sith writing, telling him where to find the holocron, even though he already knows where it is. Did he make the dagger? Did he find it? Who knows, cause the movie never tells us. Hux saves Poe and Finn, despite not having any real reason to do so. I could go on and on.

There’s a difference between a movie having a sci-fi/fantasy vibe where the science isn’t very accurate, and a movie being incomprehensible.

You say these things are incomprehensible. I say they make complete sense.

I say down is up and war is peace.

Post
#1317441
Topic
SE Changes that SHOULD have been made/should be made in the future
Time

There’s hundreds of changes that should be made in the future, actually.

I propose a whole new Special Edition of Attack Of The Clones with updated VFX, alternate takes of some scenes and deleted scenes re-inserted as well as the missing John Williams score. While you’re at it, try to better flesh out some of the film’s main plot points. By all means, create new characters or record new scenes with the original cast to make it fit better with the current Lucasfilm canon. After all movies are never finished – they’re just abandoned. So why not revisit arguably the most unfinished part of the entire Star Wars saga?

Post
#1317435
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wexter said:

But Rey has a yellow lightsaber, how cool is that?

Not very, for two main reasons.

  1. Yellow is hardly a unique lightsaber colour. TCW established it as a less common tertiary lightsaber colour for the Jedi Order, and a number of Force users have appeared with yellow lightsabers since.
  2. Even if it was, Rey of all characters doesn’t deserve it.

That’s not the point, I was being sarcastic.

It is just super weird that someone figured that at the conclusion of this nine film saga, this specific detail is what the audience needs to learn before the credits roll.

Post
#1317427
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

Absolutely. “Lightspeed moves at the speed of plot” was a phrase created to explain how Empire Strikes Back’s timeline made any sense (it still doesn’t, really. Neither does the ‘12 parsecs’ retcon they made w/ Solo’s boast) and the thing I keep coming back to is that none of these logic gaps and nitpicks would matter if the story was good at distracting you from them. Or if the story was good (and executed well on top of that) at all.

It’s not as if these problems were explicitly addressed IN the story that it’d make the story better. That’s the real problem. Even if Merry’s whole point in the movie was to stand over someone’s shoulder and explain how Lightspeed Skipping made sense, or how the necklace got located so quickly, it wouldn’t make those scenes any better. Sure, they’d be more logically sound, but that’s not worth much if you’re not emotionally engaged, and Rise of Skywalker isn’t great at that, so all the logical leaps being made just become all the more glaring.

Well said, I don’t need everything to fall into place perfectly into place. It never did, not even in 1977. However, moments like that in TROS don’t feel like a case of bending the rules in order to get the point across. More like lazy storytelling.

Ultimately, I think the new elements that the Disney Trilogy added to the Star Wars universe are simply not worth much. It really didn’t add that much of importance besides concluding the story of the original main trio of Star Wars characters and leaving the galaxy at a point of uncertainty for the future of the New Republic, the Jedi and the Sith. But Rey has a yellow lightsaber, how cool is that?

Post
#1317405
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

It’s not just the Force that feels off. The movie seems to be saying, that light speed travels take virtually zero time now (either that or all of the locations in TROS just conveniently happen to be in the same neighbourhood of space). Also, mad props to Kylo’s team for being able to figure out the origin of Rey’s necklace in like fifteen seconds.

Post
#1315965
Topic
Name Something You Unreservedly Love About TROS (SPOILERS)
Time

NeverarGreat said:

I love how it felt like an EU novel. They may not have been the greatest books, but I had a blast reading them in the 90’s and I had a blast watching this now.

Say what you will about 90s EU novels, they were mostly competently structured stories that strived to expand on what was set up in the OT. I definitely didn’t get that same feeling from TROS, but to each their own.

Post
#1315702
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

joefavs said:

With regard to pacing, I think the Pasana and Kijimi stuff could probably be condensed into one segment, which would free up 15 minutes or so that could be better spent restoring the Lando’s kidnapped child subplot and/or showing Rose’s study of the old Star Destroyer plans actually leading to some insight that helps in the battle. Or going into any amount of detail about how the Emperor came back. Or setting up the Force dyad, like, at all.

Make that Pasana and Endor and ditch the Kijimi stuff and Kylo’s command ship completely. Both the Pasana and Endor segments start with the gang hunting for an item and end with a Kylo confrontation. For a film that seems to have a lot to say it sure wastes a lot of time on dull repetition.