Sign In

Wexter

User Group
Members
Join date
29-Sep-2008
Last activity
20-Jan-2020
Posts
345

Post History

Post
#1320370
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

You kind of just described the OT. We never really see the effect of the Empire on the galaxy at large. Only how it relates to the rebellion and our main characters. The only reason we know of the Empire’s reach is because it’s called “the Empire”.

This is simply not true. We see the Empire terrorize the citizens of Tatooine and Bespin, having spies and mercenaries everywhere, shattering the residues of the old Republic with the dissolution of Senate and destruction of Alderaan, which itself is supposed to be a clear message towards potentially dissenting systems.

Sure, the First Order somehow built the SKB, but that was supposedly a one-off device with no clear follow-up and nobody really reacts to the obliteration of several systems. My point still stands.

Almost everything you mentioned has a 1:1 counterpart in the sequel trilogy.

Sure it does, because, well, pretty much everything that happens in the sequel trilogy has a counterpart in the OT.

Except in the OT the Empire was clearly the galactic government. The ST supposedly starts with the New Republic in power, but it just fizzles out right away and presumably the First Order takes over. Hard to tell for sure, since most of it just happens off-screen.

I know we don’t see much political development in the OT either, but the stage is well described by the title crawls and several characters (especially Obi-Wan, Leia, the imperials, and, if you count the novelization and/or deleted scenes, Biggs).

Post
#1320323
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Of course they could have made a much more personal story without the need to flesh out the political state of the Galaxy. It’s just complicated when some of the most prominent characters are a “supreme leader”, a general princess and the last Jedi master. Not calling for six hours of Senate meetings here, just a clear idea about the current state of the Galaxy. But I guess that’s just another mystery box.

Post
#1320316
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

pleasehello said:

Wexter said:

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

You kind of just described the OT. We never really see the effect of the Empire on the galaxy at large. Only how it relates to the rebellion and our main characters. The only reason we know of the Empire’s reach is because it’s called “the Empire”.

This is simply not true. We see the Empire terrorize the citizens of Tatooine and Bespin, having spies and mercenaries everywhere, shattering the residues of the old Republic with the dissolution of Senate and destruction of Alderaan, which itself is supposed to be a clear message towards potentially dissenting systems.

Sure, the First Order somehow built the SKB, but that was supposedly a one-off device with no clear follow-up and nobody really reacts to the obliteration of several systems. My point still stands.

Post
#1320269
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

The weird thing about the new trilogy is that the state of the larger galaxy is just absolutely incomprehensible. While the prequels clearly show the might and fall of the Old Republic, the OT depicts the Rebel Alliance defeating Palpatine’s Empire. The obvious next step would probably be showing the struggles of the New Republic or something along those lines.

Instead we got what seems to be two fringe groups of fanatics and has-beens fighting it out in the Outer Rim while the larger galaxy doesn’t really care about any of that until like the last ten minutes of the story.

Post
#1320006
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

I disagree, a story is like looking at a finished picture puzzle, the specifics are the pieces that make the puzzle, if you have two puzzles with different pieces but end up with the same picture it’s really irrelevant that the pieces were different.

But what you’re describing is that the whole picture is just the plot. That’s silly. The picture would be the story. The plot would just be what the shapes are that put the pieces together. But it’s a bad analogy.

Think of it more like a building. The plot is just the foundation. It’s what you build on top of that that really matters.

So would be up for episodes 10, 11 and 12 that would culminate with the protagonist defeating Palpatine once again? Also, bear in mind that this hypothetical protagonist is an offspring of a dark figure from the past. Snoke’s nephew, perhaps. Or Dooku’s great-granddaughter.

Post
#1319749
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

Cthulhunicron said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

StarkillerAG said:

pleasehello said:

Valheru_84 said:

You’re not meant to stop and think and try to make sense of it all Hal 😉

You jest, but it’s true. That’s the way Star Wars has always been. It’s emotional, not logical. None of it makes any sense logically and if you think about the viability of certain plot elements in those terms, it falls apart. So no, you’re not meant to make sense of it all.

That’s not the way it used to be. The OT makes sense, every action is justified.

The walkers don’t make sense. Neither does the two-dimensional space flight. Nor the idea of a giant slug being sexually attracted to humanoid women.

Apples and oranges. There’s a slight suspension of disbelief with the original three movies. TROS is complete nonsense by comparison. Palpatine is resurrected with no explanation. The Sith Eternal somehow create a fleet bigger than the First Order with no explanation. The Sith fleet can’t leave Exegol even though apparently ships have been coming and going for decades. A gigantic piece of the Death Star survives the explosion in ROTJ and re-entry through an atmosphere with no explanation. Ochi for some reason has a dagger that is shaped to fit along the skyline of the wreckage, and for some reason it has Sith writing, telling him where to find the holocron, even though he already knows where it is. Did he make the dagger? Did he find it? Who knows, cause the movie never tells us. Hux saves Poe and Finn, despite not having any real reason to do so. I could go on and on.

There’s a difference between a movie having a sci-fi/fantasy vibe where the science isn’t very accurate, and a movie being incomprehensible.

You say these things are incomprehensible. I say they make complete sense.

I say down is up and war is peace.

Post
#1317441
Topic
SE Changes that SHOULD have been made/should be made in the future
Time

There’s hundreds of changes that should be made in the future, actually.

I propose a whole new Special Edition of Attack Of The Clones with updated VFX, alternate takes of some scenes and deleted scenes re-inserted as well as the missing John Williams score. While you’re at it, try to better flesh out some of the film’s main plot points. By all means, create new characters or record new scenes with the original cast to make it fit better with the current Lucasfilm canon. After all movies are never finished – they’re just abandoned. So why not revisit arguably the most unfinished part of the entire Star Wars saga?

Post
#1317435
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wexter said:

But Rey has a yellow lightsaber, how cool is that?

Not very, for two main reasons.

  1. Yellow is hardly a unique lightsaber colour. TCW established it as a less common tertiary lightsaber colour for the Jedi Order, and a number of Force users have appeared with yellow lightsabers since.
  2. Even if it was, Rey of all characters doesn’t deserve it.

That’s not the point, I was being sarcastic.

It is just super weird that someone figured that at the conclusion of this nine film saga, this specific detail is what the audience needs to learn before the credits roll.

Post
#1317427
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Broom Kid said:

Absolutely. “Lightspeed moves at the speed of plot” was a phrase created to explain how Empire Strikes Back’s timeline made any sense (it still doesn’t, really. Neither does the ‘12 parsecs’ retcon they made w/ Solo’s boast) and the thing I keep coming back to is that none of these logic gaps and nitpicks would matter if the story was good at distracting you from them. Or if the story was good (and executed well on top of that) at all.

It’s not as if these problems were explicitly addressed IN the story that it’d make the story better. That’s the real problem. Even if Merry’s whole point in the movie was to stand over someone’s shoulder and explain how Lightspeed Skipping made sense, or how the necklace got located so quickly, it wouldn’t make those scenes any better. Sure, they’d be more logically sound, but that’s not worth much if you’re not emotionally engaged, and Rise of Skywalker isn’t great at that, so all the logical leaps being made just become all the more glaring.

Well said, I don’t need everything to fall into place perfectly into place. It never did, not even in 1977. However, moments like that in TROS don’t feel like a case of bending the rules in order to get the point across. More like lazy storytelling.

Ultimately, I think the new elements that the Disney Trilogy added to the Star Wars universe are simply not worth much. It really didn’t add that much of importance besides concluding the story of the original main trio of Star Wars characters and leaving the galaxy at a point of uncertainty for the future of the New Republic, the Jedi and the Sith. But Rey has a yellow lightsaber, how cool is that?

Post
#1317405
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

It’s not just the Force that feels off. The movie seems to be saying, that light speed travels take virtually zero time now (either that or all of the locations in TROS just conveniently happen to be in the same neighbourhood of space). Also, mad props to Kylo’s team for being able to figure out the origin of Rey’s necklace in like fifteen seconds.

Post
#1315965
Topic
Name Something You Unreservedly Love About TROS (SPOILERS)
Time

NeverarGreat said:

I love how it felt like an EU novel. They may not have been the greatest books, but I had a blast reading them in the 90’s and I had a blast watching this now.

Say what you will about 90s EU novels, they were mostly competently structured stories that strived to expand on what was set up in the OT. I definitely didn’t get that same feeling from TROS, but to each their own.

Post
#1315702
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

joefavs said:

With regard to pacing, I think the Pasana and Kijimi stuff could probably be condensed into one segment, which would free up 15 minutes or so that could be better spent restoring the Lando’s kidnapped child subplot and/or showing Rose’s study of the old Star Destroyer plans actually leading to some insight that helps in the battle. Or going into any amount of detail about how the Emperor came back. Or setting up the Force dyad, like, at all.

Make that Pasana and Endor and ditch the Kijimi stuff and Kylo’s command ship completely. Both the Pasana and Endor segments start with the gang hunting for an item and end with a Kylo confrontation. For a film that seems to have a lot to say it sure wastes a lot of time on dull repetition.

Post
#1315100
Topic
Most Disappointing Aspect of Sequel Trilogy? Most Satisfying? * <strong>TROS SPOILERS WITHIN</strong> *
Time

The most satisfying aspect was the simple fact, that technically these films are pretty much perfect. The designs, worlds, special effects, action sequences, sound design and the great acting match some of the best we’ve seen in Star Wars. Seriously, a the new cast is great and they did wonders with the material they had to work with.

The disappointment lies in the creative aspects of this set of films. There is no interesting story to tell, it feels like they tried to base the direction completely on opinion polls, memes and Reddit posts. And they failed spectacularly doing even that. The various backstories that are hinted at at various spots in the trilogy seem way more interesting than what we were actually watching. This has been a wasted opportunity and a textbook example of a mismanaged entertainments franchise.

Post
#1314918
Topic
The Map to Luke's location
Time

Cthulhunicron said:

NeverarGreat said:

But even that doesn’t explain why the Imperial map from 40 years ago has a hole in it with a dotted line leading to the hole which perfectly fits around the piece reconstructed by Tekka, which also has that line continued to Luke’s island. Like, that map from the Empire must have been specifically intended to find that one Jedi temple, implying that Palps was working on finding it even after he assumed all the Jedi were gone, and it somehow got included in the installation CDs for the Death Star, and it would have been accidentally unrestricted information because even a floorplan of the Death Star detention block is unavailable to R2. And all of this implies that the Rebellion/New Republic/Resistance didn’t have this intel from the Empire even after conquering said Empire, nor did they have even a scrap of data from this region of space which would allow them to triangulate the rest of the map’s position. At this point I’m worried that the Resistance doesn’t know how a telescope works.

I’m sorry. I started thinking about it again.

I remember bringing up those exact points 4 years ago and people on this forum told me I was overthinking it.

But how could they have suspected Star Wars fans would be so thoughtful?? They got lightsabers! And starfighters! And a porg. And The Falcon. And Chewbacca. 'Member?

Post
#1314475
Topic
What is your personal canon?
Time

My ideal canon would consist of Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and a concluding story consisting of elements of Shadows Of The Empire, ROTJ and Dark Empire.

I am completely fine with the entire Legends canon, despite some of its shortcomings it is clearly so much better than the Disney continuity. I’ll even take Rogue One and The Mandalorian, those are still quite worthwhile. The rest I have absolutely no use for. Just a waste of time, resources and talent.

I imagine it must be quite an ordeal for the nuEU authors to come up with stories that would actually reframe the sequel trilogy to make some sense. Does anybody still follow that?

Post
#1313599
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ben Solo should have been Luke's &amp; Leia's son (Spoilers)
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Feh. Give me the Legends Luke who successfully rebuilds the Jedi Order and has a wife & child any century.

+1

I would have been completely fine with any version of post-ROTJ Luke that was handled with the same care like he was by the “Legends” authors. Instead they gave this opportunity away to a bunch of cynical dumbasses.

Post
#1305739
Topic
<em>The Mandalorian</em> - Season One Discussion - * <strong>SPOILER THREAD</strong> *
Time

OK, I think I’m sold on this show. While it is far from perfect, the look and feel is mostly spot-on, the storyline is passable, the characters seem promissing and the action is just great. I’m not too sold on the baby Yodalike and I find the notion of it being 50 years old quite dumb. Also, the persistent reusing of OT designs, plot-points and even sampling of its sound effects can be pretty distracting at times. Small moments like these make the show seem just like a high-budget fan film, but that’s still way more than could be said for the two latest SW feature films, which is why I’m tentatively on board.

I also suspect this show will soon turn into an exciting fanediting exercise, which is something I’m very much looking forward to.