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Warbler

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7-May-2003
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16-Nov-2018
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Post
#1253203
Topic
The deletion of the political threads.
Time

oojason said:

Warbler said:

As I recall the problem was only one mobile devices. On desktops, it looked fine. Then again, people are using mobile devices a lot these days. However, as I recall, my sig had been unchanged for a while(multiple months), without anyone complaining to me and that includes moderators.

No, members here had voiced displeasure at having to scroll past many consecutive posts made by yourself (or near-on consecutive posts seemingly in the Politics thread) in which the size of your signature took up half a page (so I think it likely they were referring to viewing the site on desktops) - often containing one word or one-line replies / answers - in each post - making them apparently ‘difficult’ to find and read.

I said no one, including moderators, complained TO ME. Maybe they did complain to you and Silverwook. YOU may have received complaints, but no one told ME until in the Star Trek thread in October of 2017. The question then is, why did you guys wait so long to bring them to me? (Yes Silverwook had raised complaints about my sig in Decemember of 2016 and I thought we resolved them, after that I didn’t receive any complaints until October of 2017 in the Star Trek Thread.)

‘photobucket wants $100’s from you to be able to 3rd party image link to’ type adverts in place of member signatures on here - a month or so earlier.

If that was talked about on the forum, I have forgotten.

Anyway, back to your signature…

which can also be viewed here:-

http://web.archive.org/web/20171021172019/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/488
 

Additionally, what made that situation personal, was the fact the in that sig was tribute to my father who had passed away about year before oojason complained about my sig.

For whatever reason, you forget to mention that both SilverWook and myself made mock-up alternative signatures for you - containing the same images and text in a more acceptable sized signatures (inkeeping with the rules). You declined them both (and further offers of adjustments/changes you may have preferred) which is fair enough

I did forget that. I am sorry. You are right, I should have mentioned that. That was wrong of me. But it doesn’t change my main point - which is my sig was unchanged for months without anyone, including moderators, complaining TO ME

And yeah, I turne your resized sigs down. At the time, I was upset and depressed about what was going on with the forum (and maybe personal stuff going on) and I just turned them down. Maybe if I had to do over again, I would use one of them, I don’t know. Again I should have mentioned all this, but I forgot and I didn’t. I was wrong and I am sorry about that.

  • yet you also stated around the time you were considering changing your signature regardless - to something not relating to your deceased father.
     

I believe at the time I said at some point, I would remove the tribute when I felt the time was right. That is quite different than having to remove it due to complaints. At the time of our dispute, I did not feel the time was right.

(^ the image host is seemingly making them appear a little larger than originally done)

 

All I know I that I was making my sigh posts just like I had always done and then suddenly when oojason became a moderator, it became problem. In any event, I think we all have to agree I do it a lot less these days.

A few members had issues with your repeated ‘sigh only’ posts over a reasonable amount of time (as an example - http://web.archive.org/web/20171029004630/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/498 - a post by you in October '17 in which you sighed 9 times in a row as replies to other member’s posts - followed by another sigh later on on the same page.)

I sighed joke posts. I didn’t realize it would become such a bid deal. But still maintain my belief that I was not signing any more often than I used to.

Maybe when you state that ‘and then oojason suddenly became a moderator, it became a problem’ you meant that I was merely the mod who dealt with members’ continuing issues on your ‘sigh only’ posts at the time - web.archive.org/web/20171206053456/http://originaltrilogy.com:80/topic/Politics-2-Electric-Boogaloo/id/53003/page/556 (December, '17).

No other mod had complained to me about my sighing, not even Jay.

It seems my intent behind it to try and help you make your oft-valued points to others here (that was also explained at the time in a bid to try and cut down on misunderstandings to when you had previously posed ‘sighs’ and members would get the wrong end of the stick by you meant or what you were referring to - resulting in your original point being lost, forgotten or ignored. In a bid to improve the flow and understanding of the point you were making you were asked give an explanation along with when you sighed)… is (and was) lost on you. I think it’s also worth noting you didn’t seemingly have an issue with being asked to give an explanation alongside your ‘sighs’ until some time later.
 

Or maybe I just kept it to myself.

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

No, it wasn’t what I was referring to (DuracellEnergizer is correct with his post on the matter) - it was referencing Haseo’s image containing paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist). Haseo also described the image himself as ‘vile in nature’. I received some criticism for banning him for the incident - that’s fair enough if people disagreed. Yet I’d have still done exactly the same if such noxious images had again been posted on here.

Okay, my mistake. I thought you were talking about when I posted the Westboro Baptist pic. For all I know, Haseo got what he deserved.

As for the facts of the situation surrounding your 2-day cool-off period (and later 1 week temp-ban, later shortened to 3/4 days) I refer you to your own ‘A Statement from Warbler’ thread, here - link - and maybe give some time and consideration to what actually occurred at the time; and also to my two reply posts addressing your issues and queries - along with hyperbolic statements back then by yourself - just to refresh your consistently failing & selective memory of events.
 

I have re-read many times the “statement from Warbler thread” and the posts in the politics thread that led up to that thread being created. I have given it a lot of time and consideration to actually occurred.

I don’t know why that would baffle you. We(regular forums) have no idea what you do and do not discuss in private.

Admins and moderators talk with each often about many issues on site - which is likely the case on many websites & forums. It goes someway to having more consistent moderation throughout the forum - which is a positive thing - as you have previously stated here, yes? (just a rhetorical question - do not feel the need to answer).
 

I will answer anyway. Yes, it is a positive thing. Jay and the mods should be talking to each other about the many issues on the site. But like I said, If you did talk about this stuff, we(regular members would have no idea we can’t see this admin section). Given the inconsistent moderation, it seemed like you guys did not talk all that much.

It may well have been. But I say again neither he nor I ever seriously wanted Jay to kill himself.

Well, that’s obviously fine and okay to say (and love it and find it beautiful) such things if you don’t seriously mean them…

It is not fine and okay to say. But I think a lot of people are making it out to be worse than it is. It was said at a time when I was really angry Jay, right after multiple people got banned and one my favorite threads had been locked and vanished and politics was banned from the forum. I am sure you’ve never said rash things when you’ve been angry or upset .

It was not intended to be one-eyed. But you clearly had the ability to correct any inaccuracies that I had made.

It’d be more factual to say ‘you continue to correct many of my inaccuracies, false claims and my problems with moderator duties/decisions I don’t agree with’, yes?

You have corrected a few inaccuracies and brought up relevant info to the subject at hand that I had forgotten. But I give my word I never set out to intentionally deceive anyone. Your treatment of this shows what I mean when I say that you assume the worst about intentions. I admit that I have forgotten some important details which you have brought up? It is possible that it have forgotten things due to memory bias I don’t know. What I do know that I never intentionally tried to deceive or paint a false picture of what occurred. I don’t do that, despite what you might want to believe. For forgetting and failing to include important details, I apologize. Again it was not intentional.

You’ve made some of these (and more) false accusations & statements before - also previously rebuffed, and evidenced with facts too… yet here we are again… me refuting your somewhat one-eyed revisionist claims at best. Willfully deceiving and seemingly part of some sort of agenda at worst.

There has been no willful attempt to deceive from me.

I won’t be engaging with you in any further discussion - even in here -

That is your choice and it may be for the best. I think we past being able to straighten this out. I think we are just talking past each other at this point.

which has been only to correct your distorted claims. For whatever reason it is apparent you are trying to deceive and manipulate people into trying to believe your fictitious view… along with your likely forthcoming posts in here furthering your attempts to achieve just that… I hope others in here also see your false and inaccurate claims for just what they are… I’m no longer going to be a part of these twisted re-interpretations on your part.

There has been no twisted re-interpretations on my part at all. Honest mistakes? Yes. Willful deceit? no.

With you assuming I am this terrible person and believing that I am trying to deceive everyone and making false claims and what not, I guess there is not much more to discuss.

It is very sad that this has occurred, oojason. Very sad. I wish I knew how to fix this, but I don’t. You are going to believe what you want about me no matter what I say and do. It is clear to me that our biases against each other are affecting our views and memories of what happen. If you weren’t so intent on believing that I am sort sort of terrible lying deceiving scumbag, maybe we could fix this. But we can’t. Very sad.

 

As stated before… I wish you well for the future, Warbler - though I hope it is away from here, for both the good of the site - and also yourself. Good luck.

 

I am sorry I stole that loaf of bread.

Post
#1253113
Topic
open letter by Collipso
Time

The “conspiracy theory” persists because of the timing. Right when those events occurred, you shut down the thread. It didn’t help that that you made the thread disappear. You have to admit it is not a good look.

I am not sure what you should have done in regards to dahmage, but I will say that calling him an ass and thus violating your own rules is also a bad look. I am not really what he did really required you to do anything.

I will also say yet again that in order to punish thought that were not behaving as you would like, you’ve punished everyone.

I am sorry you feel this way about the politics thread. It is very unfortunate and sad. I have a lot good memories discussing politics here. I learned a lot from debated the likes of Mrebo, Ferris, C3PX and others. I feel in this day and age it is all the more important to take politics with the other side. It is clear there is a big divide in this country. The only way the resolve it is if we talk to each other. I still feel there is a way to make politics work here. Just make clear rules of how you want people act in thread and then enforce them. Start with warnings, then temp bans, then maybe long term temp bans and then perm bans. I agree there need to be hard rules about not take disputes to other threads. I also think requiring not just no name calling but civility and required people to really stick to arguing the point and issue and not the person. I think they will help keep things from getting out of the hand. If you want to ban 1 word responses in the thread, fine. I wish there was a way to make you see the merit in the politics thread(and the merit in the off topic section for that matter). But I don’t think there is. It’s ashame, it’s ashame.

Post
#1251994
Topic
The deletion of the political threads.
Time

I see that oojason has posted a reply. I hope that someone still in management here replies at some point. I am not going to address everything oojason said(so if I don’t address something he says, don’t take it as me necessarily agreeing with him), but I will address a some.

oojason said:

Warbler said:

I was keeping that inside me for along time and then came a tipping point. Jay making oojason a moderator(btw, Jay should have made that announcement, not Silverwook, announcing new mods is a job for the admin).

Does it really matter who made the announcement? Whether it was Jay, SilverWook or Anchorhead? Either way the announcement made - and it was clear & concise.

Perception. When Silverwook made the announcement, I wondered why he did and not Jay. I hadn’t seen Jay around for awhile. I thought maybe he could have gone awol(he did that once before way back, before I was a member). Was Silverwook taking upon himself to appoint someone a moderator? I didn’t know. If Jay had made the announcement, it would have let everyone know right away that he stood behind oojason. As I recall Jay had to come out later on make clear that he approved of oojason and what he was doing. If Jay had made announcement, that would not have been necessary. Additionally, Jay is lone admin and owner. Doesn’t it just make sense for him to be the one to make announcements of that magnitude?

It also appeared across the top of every section of the site - and no-one else seemingly had an issue with it, that I recall.

It happened day before our incident in the politics thread. I somehow missed it. I am human. Shoot me. Additionally at that time moderators were not marked. Consequently, I did not realize that oojason was a moderator.

It shortly became clear that oojason was very strictly enforcing the rules. The problem is, until after I got banned, no one had given any warning that the rules were now going to be more strictly enforced. Another thing was that I got temp banned before anything had been done to the likes of Darth Id, General Frevious, and Jediuze(I forget how it is spelled and I can’t see the politic thread to get the right spelling) which were clearly trolls and had behaved much worse than I did. This was a tipping off point for me. It made me think there was a double standard going on. It just further cemented my anger. But I again tried to more on from it.

I disagree with that, somewhat. As stated to you before the rules are there to help make this place a civil one. It’s not a strict application of those rules I undertook -

Whether you want to call it strict or not, you were clearly enforced more strictly than they had been. It was change that was not announced until after I got temp banned.

If you’re referring to you being asked to reduce the size of your signature… it was a little on the large size, Warb. It took up nearly half the page.

As I recall the problem was only one mobile devices. On desktops, it looked fine. Then again, people are using mobile devices a lot these days. However, as I recall, my sig had been unchanged for a while(multiple months), without anyone complaining to me and that includes moderators. Additionally, what made that situation personal, was the fact the in that sig was tribute to my father who had passed away about year before oojason complained about my sig.

If you’re referring to me asking you to stop with the ‘sigh only’ posts - that was also explained at the time in a bid to try and cut down on misunderstandings to when you had previously posed ‘sighs’ and members would get the wrong end of the stick by you meant or what you were referring to - resulting in your original point being lost, forgotten or ignored. In a bid to improve the flow and understanding of the point you were making you were asked give an explanation along with when you sighed. (Other members were asked to stop with the ‘hahahaha’ type posts too - both part of a bid to improve the quality and flow of discussion).

All I know I that I was making my sigh posts just like I had always done and then suddenly when oojason became a moderator, it became problem. In any event, I think we all have to agree I do it a lot less these days.

For banning someone who posted up an image regarding paedophilia, bestiality and religious intolerance (and IIRC was also racist?), and who also kicked off at the mods and then re-posted the offending image - I’ve no qualms about my actions there.

Just so everyone knows what oojason is referring to here. It image in question was one of a westboro baptists protester, holding up offensive signs. I was not posting it condone, or agree with what they do or condone or approve of paedophilia, bestiality, religious intolerance, racism, or homophobia. I think the westbor baptists are the scum of the earth. I absolutely hate what they do. oojason knowing me as long as he did, should known that would not approve of those things or the westboro baptists. I posted the pic to show that not all peaceful protesters are good people. I thought I had made that clear in the initial post. I thought, if the post was read in the contexts of the posts that had come before and with the accompanying text with the pic, that my reasons and intentions were clear. But turned out it was not. I made more clear my reason for posting the pic later on, but it was not done fast enough to suit oojason.

Warbler said:

  1. Inconsistent moderation. Let us face it, how Silverwook moderates compared to how oojason did is night and day. They are entirely different. That is a problem. Moderation, no matter who is doing it needs to be consistent. It is not fair that whether someone is punished for something and/or what the punishment is, depends on who is doing the moderating. Tell your moderators how you want and expect the forum to be moderated and make sure they are all moderating it the same. This would also help in making clear how you expect people to behave.

Yes, we’re different people, though as stated before by the other mods, and Jay, we are not a hive mind. I’ll freely admit I’m the ‘worst’ mod on here and made a fair few mistakes - though it’s a high bar on here (and both love and respect SilverWook, Anchorhead, Zion, Moth3r & Jay and the way they handle(d) things, their commitment and dedication to the site.

I realize you are not a hive mind. But can you see the problem if person A and person B do the same thing, and then oojason catches person A and bans him and Silverwook catches person B and does nothing? Can’t you see a problem with inconsistent enforcement of the rules. Sure no two mods will ever do everything exactly the same, but there does and should be some level of consistency.

The thing with the westboro baptist pic is a perfect example. I would bet my life savings that if you hadn’t been a moderator at the time, Silverwook would have taken no action on the pic. None. I know that because not long before that incident, I had posted another pic of the westboro baptists, again to use an example and Silverwook did nothing. That is what I mean by inconsistent moderation.

That you believe that Jay didn’t converse with us on issues is baffling to me - or that we actually often talked issues through before acting on them at times baffles me too.

I don’t know why that would baffle you. We(regular forums) have no idea what you do and do not discuss in private.

As for your earlier statement in which…

Warbler said:

But why did I react the way I did? Anger. Anger at what has gone on here for years. I have been a forum member here for 15 years. For a large percentage of that, I have felt like dirt under Jay’s feet. I realize I share part of the blame. I know some it goes back to my actions during what I have always called the great forum schism(now I guess it is the first forum schism) back in 2006 with the situation involving Dayv and fanedit.com(now fanedit.org). I do regret some of how I acted and some of what I said. I believe I have said that before. I also deeply regret the times I trolled on here. I admit it was childish and stupid and I am embarrassed about doing so. I do believe that even though I have tried to move on from both, I don’t think Jay has never been able to truly forgive me and it has caused animosity between us for years. But it is not just that.

It has do with years of Jay acting like he preferred the Trolls over legitimate forum members. It used to be trolls could get away with murder on here. I have been the victim of bullying and personal attacks from trolls, with Jay and his mods doing nothing. Finally, they started moderating the off topic section, but my anger at having to put up with the trolls for years while Jay and the mods did nothing, remained. To me at the time I thought all Jay and the mods should do is just perm ban the trolls and leave off topic otherwise un-moderated. I think I now realize it’s a little more complicated than that. I also felt and still feel that Jay has never appreciated the special place that off topic became(note, I did not say perfect). To my point of view, he has always had disdain for the off topic section and consequently, we(those post most often in off topic) have felt like Jay’s dirty ugly step children. That fed into the animosity and my anger. There were also multiple PMs to you and other mods that went unanswered. That too fed into my anger.

Just a quick one, here. I believe you are wrong on how you believe Jay sees you.

If I am, he can tell me himself.

Despite you publishing private email conversations on the site,

I believe I apologized for doing that. I will apologize again. I am sorry I published private email conversations. I admit it was a bad mistake on my part. Again, I am sorry.

harassing me after you were asked to stop contacting me

Remind me, when did I do that?

and then giving quite a one-eyed opinion of what had occurred at the time in your ‘Warbler’s Statement’ thread…

It was not intended to be one-eyed. But you clearly had the ability to correct any inaccuracies that I had made.

I’ll let you know Jay was person who asked me to reduce your ‘week off’ for doing so to just a few days, and that he generally speaks well of you in the Admin section.

That he speaks well of me would shock me. Unfortunately, I can’t read the Admin section to know for sure. I didn’t even know there was an admin section.

Jay also had no problem with you using the site to start up ‘Warbler’s Place 2 - PM Boogaloo’ type PM threads - despite you not posting on the open forum.

Any private threads I have created are just that - private. They are nothing like what “Warbler’s Place” was.

Jay has also gone to significant efforts to reform the Off Topic for the better - giving members here what they they long wished for - a place to discuss media, film, tv, music, art, politics, religion, sport, life etc in a place outside of the old Off Topic section - yet still contain that (now Cantina) section - where members are more free to goofball & mess around - and is more freely moderated than other sections of the site.

fixed.

Also, your claim that multiple PM to the mods went unanswered is not true - I’ve answered every single one of your many PMs to me (bar your last PM reply to me). You may not have liked or agreed with the content - though they were all answered, and I believe engaged with - and given the same respect, thought, care and attention that I gave to everyone else. The reason why I haven’t responded to your last PM reply is that I no longer wish to spend any more time and effort here discussing issues with you when you state that collipso’s open letter (containing ‘go drive yourself into a tree’) is ‘it was a thing of beauty’ and that ‘you loved the open letter’.

To clarify: My claim about multiple PMs to the mods going unanswered does not apply to oojason. He did answer the PMs I sent to him. What I was referring to were situations that happened before oojason was a moderator. The PMs in question were mostly ones sent to Jay or Silverwook.

My time spent here is limited (though it certainly may not seem like it of late! 😃) due to changes in personal circumstances mean I stepped down as moderator here (something which can take a lot out of a person).

I realize that moderating can take a lot out of a person, that is why I suggested adding additional mods and an admit, to lower the workload.

Regardless of Jay being involved in a car accident years ago - or whether collipso knew of that or not… it was out of order and a disgusting thing for him to say to anyone (basically to go kill yourself).

It may well have been. But I say again neither he nor I ever seriously wanted Jay to kill himself.

Honestly, I never thought there’d be day where I believed this site would be a better place without you - though given your continuing & selective views of me and others (as well as aggressive attitude to me in your PMs), your obvious and clear frustrations with the site & how it’s run, the anger which has manifested itself within you over that time - and also your recent comments & claims - I no longer believe that to be the case.

I’m sorry you feel that way, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Post
#1251879
Topic
The deletion of the political threads.
Time

Handman said:

I can say it off the bat, I’m guessing you’re not going to be banned for that.

You mention a bad attitude, and that you’ve been carrying a lot of anger for a very long time. Unfortunately, and I must be blunt, I think that anger shows in your post. Not that you can’t be angry, but when providing feedback, it becomes difficult for that feedback to be of the highest quality when you’re angry. I think there are a lot of similarities between what you say have to be fixed and my previous post in this topic.

However, your anger comes across in your tone, which immediately places the receiver of that feedback into the defensive, like it or not. Like I said to Jay (possibly in another thread), if you expect better behavior, you should try to hold yourself to that standard, even in the face of opposition. It is definitely hard, and certainly frustrating at times, but it’s also the easiest way to enact change.

Anyway, I don’t want to make this sound like I’m dismissing the contents of your post. There are a lot of valid points. I just want to try to make clear that it should not be surprising if the mod team finds it difficult to listen.

I don’t know. Maybe it is coming across angrier to you than I intended it to be. But please believe me, it is a lot less angry than I would have written a few days ago.

Post
#1251865
Topic
The deletion of the political threads.
Time

At the risk of being banned, I am going to say something.

First of all I was told not to return after I made two posts at fanedit.org that condoned Colipso’s open letter. I do somewhat regret those posts. I have been told by those that I respect that they(my posts) and Colipso’s open letter went too far. After rereading Colipso’s letter, I do have to say that I do not agree with everything said. But I do agree with the anger behind it. I do wish to make clear I that never seriously wished that Jay would die(I don’t think Colipso does either). I considered the last line just another way of saying “fuck off”. But I was reminded by someone that a few years ago Jay was in a serious car accident. That could put a different spin on the last line. I had totally forgotten about the car accident(Colipso may not have even ever known about it). I do feel bad about that. If I had remembered about the car accident, my reaction would have been different.

But why did I react the way I did? Anger. Anger at what has gone on here for years. I have been a forum member here for 15 years. For a large percentage of that, I have felt like dirt under Jay’s feet. I realize I share part of the blame. I know some it goes back to my actions during what I have always called the great forum schism(now I guess it is the first forum schism) back in 2006 with the situation involving Dayv and fanedit.com(now fanedit.org). I do regret some of how I acted and some of what I said. I believe I have said that before. I also deeply regret the times I trolled on here. I admit it was childish and stupid and I am embarrassed about doing so. I do believe that even though I have tried to move on from both, I don’t think Jay has never been able to truly forgive me and it has caused animosity between us for years. But it is not just that.

It has do with years of Jay acting like he preferred the Trolls over legitimate forum members. It used to be trolls could get away with murder on here. I have been the victim of bullying and personal attacks from trolls, with Jay and his mods doing nothing. Finally, they started moderating the off topic section, but my anger at having to put up with the trolls for years while Jay and the mods did nothing, remained. To me at the time I thought all Jay and the mods should do is just perm ban the trolls and leave off topic otherwise un-moderated. I think I now realize it’s a little more complicated than that. I also felt and still feel that Jay has never appreciated the special place that off topic became(note, I did not say perfect). To my point of view, he has always had disdain for the off topic section and consequently, we(those post most often in off topic) have felt like Jay’s dirty ugly step children. That fed into the animosity and my anger. There were also multiple PMs to you and other mods that went unanswered. That too fed into my anger.

I was keeping that inside me for along time and then came a tipping point. Jay making oojason a moderator(btw, Jay should have made that announcement, not Silverwook, announcing new mods is a job for the admin). In my opinion, that just did not work. Part of that is colored by how it started. I was in a bad mod one weekend in late September of 2017 and had gone a bit too far in posting in the politics thread. Up to that time the rules, at least in the off topic were not being enforced all that strictly. If the politics threads were visible I could point to posts made within weeks of that September that clearly violated the rules and yet no one had done anything about them. It was clear that the rules were not being enforced strictly. Then I made the posts in September of 2017 and oojason stepped in. I didn’t even realize he had been made a moderator. We got into an argument and I got temp banned(at the time I didn’t realize whether the ban was temp or perm because I didn’t realize it was oojason that banned me). It shortly became clear that oojason was very strictly enforcing the rules. The problem is, until after I got banned, no one had given any warning that the rules were now going to be more strictly enforced. Another thing was that I got temp banned before anything had been done to the likes of Darth Id, General Frevious, and Jediuze(I forget how it is spelled and I can’t see the politic thread to get the right spelling) which were clearly trolls and had behaved much worse than I did. This was a tipping off point for me. It made me think there was a double standard going on. It just further cemented my anger. But I again tried to more on from it. Then oojason went nitpicking in the offtopic section and punished people for ridiculous things. He was ruining the fun for a lot of people. I think oojason did a terrible job, I am not the only one that thinks so. It didn’t help that we did not know whether Jay ordered that the rules be more strictly enforced or whether oojason had taken it upon himself to do so. I felt that he treated me like he was so much better than I and like I was some sort of terrible and despicable person who needed to be taught how to behave by him. He always assumed the worse about my intentions. That even further cemented my anger. Anyway, It spiraled from there to the latest decision to not only lock the 2nd politics thread and ban the discussion of politics, but also to disappear the two politics threads(without any explanation given for the disappearance until I asked). I was really pissed. I was ready to write a flame like Colipso did. I came very close, but people kept telling me not to. So I condoned his open letter as a result of anger that had built up for years.

Things that I think need to be fixed:

  1. Better communication and P.R.(public relations). There is no way the politics threads should have just disappeared without explanation. Yes, you finally gave one, but it shouldn’t have waited until you were asked. You should have known that people were going to wonder why the threads disappeared and whether they were just invisible or deleted. It was obvious as hell. You also have to learn to realize how the timing of the banning of politics looks. Maybe it wasn’t a rash decision based on what had been going on in there in regards to the “cool” comment. Maybe you had been thinking about shutting down politics for a while and what had occurred was just a tipping point. Maybe what occurred in the thread had nothing to do with your decision to ban politics. Regardless, you have to realize how things look is a factor. Appearance means something. Another thing, poor communication when bans occur. The last time I got banned(for reasons that I deserved) I had to PM Silverwook on fanedit.org to find out how long the ban was and whether it was temp or perm. That should not happen. Banned forum members should not have to go to other forums that mods here post on, to find out conditions about their bans. They should be clearly communicated. What if Silverwook had not been a member on fanedit.org? How would I have found out? Another thing that clearly demonstrates your lack of communication skills was the situation involving your email address. I forget what thread it was, but some time ago you told people not to send emails to that address as you were no longer checking it and hadn’t been for a long time. If you don’t want to use that email address, fine. But the moment you stop checking it should be the moment you tell people not to use it, not after you’ve stopped checking it for months(or years?). I wonder how many people sent you emails using that address that were not responded too? I wonder how many of them thought you had deliberately decided not to reply to them? I know I thought that. If you are going to stop using an email address, you should inform people at the time you stop using it. You should have also given us new email address to use. Admins should have email addresses for forum members to use. It just makes sense for admins(especially owners) to have an email address. As far as I know, you’ve never given us replacement email address for the old one. The whole thing is just evidence of your poor communication skills. When you make decisions you need to do a better job at explaining them and whatever general problem you are having(like new members feeling unwelcome by off topic posters).

  2. Inconsistent moderation. Let us face it, how Silverwook moderates compared to how oojason did is night and day. They are entirely different. That is a problem. Moderation, no matter who is doing it needs to be consistent. It is not fair that whether someone is punished for something and/or what the punishment is, depends on who is doing the moderating. Tell your moderators how you want and expect the forum to be moderated and make sure they are all moderating it the same. This would also help in making clear how you expect people to behave.

  3. Bad attitude. You are the Admin here, and you will be until and unless you step down. If you want this to be a quality place, the leader here needs to have a better attitude. Quit with the rudeness in your posts. Quit with the arrogance and disdain. You say you want to be treated like a regular person sometimes have have your rudeness(for want of better wording) treated how we would treat others’ rudenesses. Unfortunately,it doesn’t work like that. Like it or not, you just can’t get way from the admin badge, just like cops are still cops when they are off duty. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Also I think it can benefit the forum when the admin acts like how he/she wants the rest of the forum members to act. Like it or not, Jay, how you act is an example to all other forum members. You just can’t escape that(unless you wish to step down).

  4. Don’t be so hesitant to perm ban people. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t agree with all the bans lately and I don’t think people should be perm banned at a drop of a hat. I think it should be done carefully, wisely, and mercifully. But do you know why your warning and temp bans were ineffective? I think it is because the fear of a perm ban was not present. You want people to follow your rules you have perm ban continued violations at some point. Yes, issue plenty of warnings and temp bans first, but at some point a perm ban may need to happen. Another thing you could try is long term temp bans. Perhaps bans for six months or year or longer (this would be after plenty of warnings and short temp bans).

  5. Don’t punish everyone for the acts of a few. The banning of politics is an example of this. There are many that like to discuss politics that did nothing wrong and were punished right along with those you deem to be guilty. That is unfair. Punish the people that misbehave, not everyone. If that means perm banning those that misbehave, perm ban them. It may be harsh, but it is better than punishing the innocent right along with the guilty.

  6. Quit disrespecting the off topic section. Maybe we haven’t welcomed new members as you would have liked. But off topic is not the cesspool you think it is. It is a unique and special place. Yes, it needs some fixing. But it also needs some respect from the forum’s admin and owner.

  7. Bring politics back. Yes things need to be done to fix the problems you were having. But don’t just get rid of it. At the very least, make them visible again. They are part of forum history. They are part of what makes the off topic section unique and special.

  8. Remember the cause that started the forum. The oot is still not being given the treatment it deserves, yet you have distanced yourself from the petition and the cause. I wish you would stop doing that.

  9. Get more mods and maybe consider adding an admin. I think it would help if you had more people sharing the work and someone else with more authority than just that of a moderator. This would also help when at times you and the mods need breaks.

  10. Suggested new rules:

  • Do not make new forum members feel unwelcome.

(assuming politics is brought back)

  • Do not take politics outside the politics thread(s)
  • Political conversation needs to be civil and open minded. No insults, personal attacks, snide replies, rude replies. (and probably more)

There are probably a lot more I could talk about and new rules I could suggest and things I could say about what has caused my anger on here. I am sure I have done a terrible job at expressing myself in this post and it is already too long. Well I guess that is that. You may not realize it Jay. But I care about this place a lot. This is or was my hangout and home on the internet. Your disdain for the off topic section and myself, hurts. I have posted all the above in the interest of getting off my chest and in the interest of improving this forum, not to annoy or hurt you.

Finally, I want to make clear that my anger has nothing to do with your current political stance. Yes, I disagree with you about what you say about Trump. But I am not angry at you for that. Not in the least. In fact, I agree with you distancing yourself from the Democrats. Remember, I pride myself on being a Rino(Republican in name only), and not a Dem. I am by no means a party yes man.

If Jay perm bans me, goodbye, farewell, and amen.

I will never forget my time as member of ot.com. I have learned a lot here. I made friends here. I find it very sad that all this has happened. Well, I guess that is that.

Bob Falfa, I am sorry about my rude comments way back when.

May the force be with you all.

Post
#1250692
Topic
The deletion of the political threads.
Time

I would like to know why they were deleted. Are totally gone or is it that we can’t see them? If they still extist somewhere, is there any possibility that they could become visible again? Note, I did not say unlocked, just viable. I like going back and re-reading old debates and seeing what I and others thought years ago. It seems a shame that all that forum history should be gone forever. Would you be willing to reconsider?