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Vladius

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25-Sep-2011
Last activity
26-Jun-2024
Posts
588

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Post
#1596350
Topic
The <strong>Unpopular Expanded Universe Opinions</strong> Thread
Time

Sideburns of BoShek said:

Spartacus01 said:

JadedSkywalker said:

Is it unpopular to pretty much hate everything that happened after Vision of the Future. I like Luke and Mara settling down together maybe they have one or more children based on Vision of the Future, I even like Ben. But all the grimdark stuff from the Vong, to killing Anakin Solo, making Jacen Hayden Skywalker and killing him, and killing Mara I despise.

I think that, even though you dislike the New Jedi Order series and the Vong War, you might still like the Young Jedi Knights series. It’s the series that immediately proceeds the NJO, and tells the adventures of young Jacen and Jaina when they were still young teenagers, before the Yuuzhan Vong invaded the Galaxy. There is no foreshadowing of the future Vong War, since the series was written before the NJO, the Force powers are not over the top, and Luke is portrayed as a wise Jedi master. I think that it might be a nice epilogue if you don’t want to accept the NJO.

Shit, you think people are going to take your posts or advice on here seriously after you telling a black member on here that:
 

“If you focus on the ethnicity of the characters of a movie instead of enjoying the movie itself, I honestly think you are the problem here. Who cares if the characters are white, black, green or transparent? That’s not the point. So yes, it’s a stupid criticism.”

Yeah, the italics in the “you” of the “you are the problem here” really adds the icing on top of your racist cake. And that a black man highlighting inequality in films is “a stupid criticism”.
 

When Caston then asked you in PMs if you already knew Keyan was black, and all Keyan had done is highlight some scenes that could have easily featured some non-white males, included women, or re-dressed aliens, instead being predominantly white men, in response to George’s recent statement and claims which George himself brought up at Cannes, you then replied:

“The fact that a person is black doesn’t mean he can’t be criticized, just as it doesn’t mean he can’t make the mistake of focussing excessively on the ethnicity of the characters.”

 
You then tried to deflect away from the focus of your statement accusing Keyan of “being the problem here”, by slating members on here and the site itself, by posting:

“I don’t have a problem with anyone, but I feel you’re all nitpicking just for the sake of finding something to criticize about Lucas. And look, I’m not one of those people who think Lucas never made mistakes, or is a flawed genius, but members of this forum tend to criticize him for everything, even the most insignificant and irrelevant things. If you guys don’t like the Prequels and the Special Editions, that’s fine. But there is no need to bash Lucas for everything he says and does, because it simply makes you unsure of your own opinions. We are in 2024, the Prequels and the Special Editions are past history, just get over the fact that Lucas made something you don’t like and move on.”

 
Well, good luck with that. I’ll be scrolling right past all your posts from now on. I guess others may be too. Each to their own.

Dude what is your problem lol
Why do you need to white knight and try to cancel someone on a forum of like 15 people over a mild disagreement? Just pathetic.

Post
#1595890
Topic
<strong>The Acolyte</strong> (live action series set in The High Republic era) - a general discussion thread
Time

Channel72 said:

I’ve seen lots of people online complaining about the supernatural conception of Mae/Osha via the Force, because they feel it detracts from the uniqueness of Anakin’s story.

I guess this is another symptom of the widespread “reevaluation” of the Prequels online over the past 10 years. But from my perspective, the whole virgin birth and “Chosen One” aspect of Anakin’s story was a completely stupid idea in the first place, so I really don’t care if some later story messes with it. Maybe the Acolyte writers will actually do something interesting with the concept, but I doubt it. The whole concept is just dumb.

Okay but then the show shouldn’t use its relationship to the prequels as a selling point. If you’re going to ignore the prequels, then ignore them. Don’t throw in Neimoidians and Ki Adi Mundi and prequel Jedi and all that stuff. I’m all for the prequels getting overwritten in a hypothetical alternate continuity but this isn’t that, it’s doubling down on the prequels and somehow managing to (intentionally or unintentionally) make it worse and more self-contradictory.

Post
#1594177
Topic
<strong>The Acolyte</strong> (live action series set in The High Republic era) - a general discussion thread
Time

StarkillerAG said:

I haven’t watched any of this show, and I probably never will (I’ve kind of stopped giving a shit about “new Star Wars” in general), but I think I can say this with confidence: those audience reviews are bullshit. The review bombing is comically obvious. Like, maybe the show has problems, I wouldn’t know, but “30% on Rotten Tomatoes” level of problems? “4.8 on IMDB” level of problems? It really feels like people just want to hate it, for two main reasons:

  1. “They put a WOMAN… in STAR WARS?! And she’s… BLACK?! WOKE!!! WOKE!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOKE!!!”
  2. “It’s by DISNEY… and it’s NOT Andor?! It MUST be bad! REVIEW BOMB!!! REVIEW BOOOOOOOOMB!!!”

Like, if these reviews were at all legitimate, wouldn’t Book of Boba (which is probably way worse) get the same level of vitriol? What about Kenobi, which might be one of the worst pieces of live action Star Wars media ever? But of course, Boba and Obi-Wan are male and (mostly) white, and this was before the whole “Andor is the only good Disney Star War” narrative started, so The Acolyte is the one getting turned into some sort of nerd pariah instead. Like I said, it’s bullshit.

Boba is not white, he’s polynesian. Book of Boba Fett and Obi-Wan (and Ahsoka) were absolutely despised by the same people so you must not have been paying attention. That’s actually probably why this one is already pre-hated, it’s coming off the heels of those other ones.

The reason people highlight Andor is that it was a really well done story, which is unusual compared to the rest. Lots of people also like Rogue One and the Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2. It would be nice if this was another Andor but we should remember that Andor got there on its own merits; most people had zero interest in it due to Disney’s prior reputation, and it became more popular by word of mouth.

The “women/black in Star Wars” thing is such garbage. No one thinks that. Some of the most popular characters in Star Wars are female characters, going all the way back to Leia. Lando and Mace Windu were always popular. Andor is full of diversity as well. The thing is, it’s obvious when it’s part of a DEI initiative or it’s tokenism for its own sake. It’s an aesthetic, you can just tell. The casting decisions don’t line up. For example, Riva in the Obi-Wan show. Awful character, and miscast. Even if she was written better and given less goofy actions and choreography, the actress just doesn’t pull off the intimidation she’s supposed to have. Her presence detracts from Obi-Wan being the main character in his own show. But outside the show in real life, all they can talk about is how badass and empowered she is. Telling, not showing. It’s not a massive stretch to say that diversity requirements were at least partly responsible, call that “woke” or whatever you want.

Post
#1594054
Topic
<strong>The Acolyte</strong> (live action series set in The High Republic era) - a general discussion thread
Time

Acbagel said:

Vladius said:

Acbagel said:

Watched the premiere last night, I think I called it pretty well to my expectations. The set design, color palettes, and feel of the worlds exceeded what I saw in marketing, I was pleasantly surprised with the environments, VFX, and characters for the most part, but there are indeed some glaring issues holding it back from being great. I think it will end up being a fine show, but unfortunately, Star Wars does not need fine. In fact, I would say fine hurts Star Wars at this point. They need big wins to restore some brand image. Is it fair to place that much pressure on The Acolyte? Probably not, but it’s reality, something has to come out to unify the fanbase if we want to see Star Wars stay at the forefront of the mainstream.

Why do we want that?

I made a number of different points here, so I’m not sure which one you’re asking about. Assuming the final sentence about Star Wars being at the forefront of culture, I think when it does that it’s proof of its outstanding and well-liked content. Star Wars has gone through many different periods of being a cultural phenomenon and it’s always produced great content in those eras. As a big fan, I want that to return because it means good shows/movies/games/stories and increases the probability of getting new and better content in the future.

The audience reviews for the Acolyte are very low so far. I disagree with a lot of what’s being said against the show, but overwhelmingly negative waves of reviews aren’t good no matter which way you frame it. That doesn’t bode well for investors pulling the trigger on future High Republic era shows or an Acolyte Season 2. Even if the criticisms aren’t fair and aren’t a direct critique of the Acolyte itself, but are instead a general protest against Disney, the money movers don’t make that distinction. They see: “Acolyte got bad reviews and had bad word of mouth online, it didn’t make enough money, scrap related future projects” compared to “Acolyte got great reviews, positive reception on social media, got us x # of new Disney+ subscribers, give us a season 2”.

I want Star Wars to be good/stay good. I think the Acolyte premiere was good, but a lot of people don’t (again, much of that is for alternative reasons, but money talks). I’d personally like Disney to focus on projects that have a higher chance of unifying the fanbase and possibly bringing Star Wars excitement into the mainstream of culture once again. I think the Acolyte is intriguing, but it’s not the project that will do that. Skeleton Crew is not going to do that. The Rey movie isn’t going to do that. Even Andor brings in only a segment of fans and won’t do that. I think a very faithful Old Republic adaptation story would (original Tales of the Jedi/KOTOR comic series), a post-RotJ Legends Luke animated show would, live-action Clone Wars movie with Hayden/Ewan/Ariana would, Darth Bane trilogy novel to film adaptation etc.

Maybe some people enjoy Star Wars becoming a bit more niche and having a split fanbase? If they do, I wouldn’t hold it against them if they are happy with how things are going and like the majority of content that’s released. But I’d like to see a return to widespread excitement. What project do you think would do that?

I think that reasoning is kind of circular. You’re saying that we should want it to be popular because it’s good, and it’s good mainly when it’s popular. I think it should be good first, and the popularity shouldn’t matter. Popular things tend to get worse over time because the people making it forget their roots, or someone else takes over and doesn’t understand why it was good, or the people coming in are just hopping on a bandwagon and end up demanding unwarranted changes.

In the time between 1983 and sometime in the late 2000s/early 2010s, Star Wars was always sort of “niche” to some extent and almost always had a split fanbase. Most original fans were split on whether or not they liked the EU and whether or not they liked the prequels, and you had many splits in opinion on various EU projects as well. The quality of EU stuff went up and down all the time, but it had very little to do with what average people on the street were thinking about Star Wars. The original trilogy was very well-liked, the prequels were treated as a funny oddity, and maybe your dad or your uncle or one of your coworkers was way into reading all the books and comics, and if you liked video games you had a nearly constant stream of great games coming out. But that was all. It was very decentralized, for lack of a better term.

Disney is putting out the equivalent of EU projects and expecting all or most of them to be blockbuster hits that justify their investment. Putting the quality of most of them aside (medium to awful), they’re inviting direct comparison with the original movies and prequels in a way that none of the EU stuff ever did. They’re making high, high budget movies and TV shows and promoting them out the nose at every level. Of course they’re going to come up short, even if they were competent at it.

When Star Wars was “niche” and divided and there was a book or a comic or a game or an RPG supplement you didn’t like, you just ignored it and moved on, or if it messed with another story you liked, you got mad about it on a message board like this one. Constant big budget movie and TV releases are exhausting and ultimately a more shallow experience, and there’s no reason to want them for their own sake.

If you’re talking about a mainstream view of it then your only points of comparison can be other times in the Disney era (2015 for example) because this is the only era where it has worked like this.

Post
#1593938
Topic
<strong>The Acolyte</strong> (live action series set in The High Republic era) - a general discussion thread
Time

Acbagel said:

Watched the premiere last night, I think I called it pretty well to my expectations. The set design, color palettes, and feel of the worlds exceeded what I saw in marketing, I was pleasantly surprised with the environments, VFX, and characters for the most part, but there are indeed some glaring issues holding it back from being great. I think it will end up being a fine show, but unfortunately, Star Wars does not need fine. In fact, I would say fine hurts Star Wars at this point. They need big wins to restore some brand image. Is it fair to place that much pressure on The Acolyte? Probably not, but it’s reality, something has to come out to unify the fanbase if we want to see Star Wars stay at the forefront of the mainstream.

Why do we want that?

Post
#1593937
Topic
<strong>The Acolyte</strong> (live action series set in The High Republic era) - a general discussion thread
Time

adywan said:

After being pretty “meh” after seeing the trailers, i was surprised at how much i liked the first 2 episodes. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but to me it actually feels like Star Wars, unlike BOBF, Ahsoka and the latter part of Mando. The acting & dialogue is fine, which the trailers somehow made it seem prequel level bad, but it isn’t. And thank GOD we finally have colour back in Star Wars and not that horrendous desaturated & over dark grading that’s plagued the majority of the TV shows so far. The only thing that feels a bit off to me is the ending of both episodes. They don’t seem like an episode ending. It’s seeming to be aimed at editing into one long movie that has been chopped up into episodes more than an episodic formula.

Sadly, the dark side of the fandom is ripping it apart. The usual " Woke" bullshit comments are everywhere. Slating the show because of its female lead, the fact they mentioned " two mothers" and other crap. If it’s not white male lead they don’t class it as Star Wars. Wankers. I’m so fed up hearing how Star Wars is dead, just because it doesn’t follow their narrow minded bullshit. No one is allowed to just enjoy it any more without all their vitriol. I’ve seen so many commenting on how they refuse to watch it but will review bomb it wherever possible. Then attacking fans who dare to say they like anything “Disney” Star Wars.

This show has started out pretty well. It has my interest. I LOVE the score and i think that’s one of the reasons why it feels more like Star Wars to me. It feels very Willams to me. Although i don’t mind the different style scores in things like the Mandalorian, it seems to take away something for me. The Acolyte is probably the first TV show that i rewatched the first eps in the same day.

It doesn’t help that the creators and actors go out of their way to publicly say that they’re trying to make people mad on purpose

Post
#1592419
Topic
Which one do you like more? The Prequels or the Sequels? And why?
Time

OFFICIAL Ranking

  1. Original Trilogy
  2. Revenge of the Sith
  3. Phantom Menace
  4. Rise of Skywalker
  5. Force Awakens
  6. Attack of the Clones
  7. Last Jedi

Overall prequels take it just for having the best parts of Revenge of the Sith and Phantom Menace. Not coincidentally those are the easiest movies to fix and it’s been done probably a hundred times by different people here and on other sites.

Attack of the Clones is really bad and directly caused pretty much everything I hate about the entire series including in the Expanded Universe, but it doesn’t quite attack the audience itself or the concept of the setting, and it has some fun stuff with Obi Wan. Last Jedi takes the foundation and goes a step further into active hostility toward the other movies and the viewer. It has some neat cinematography but that’s nowhere close to making up for any of it.

Rise of Skywalker is a blast to watch because it’s so ridiculous and insane but it is also the only one of the sequels that actually gives the main characters something to do and it ends on a positive message. Force Awakens would be higher if it weren’t so dependent on having a next installment to answer all the questions, so it’s retroactively worse as a result.

Post
#1591039
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

NFBisms said:

Vladius said:

Unpopular opinion - I don’t like their depiction, but as depicted in the movies, the prequel Jedi that people call “dogmatic,” “flawed,” “political,” “cold,” etc. were right about a lot of things.

They can be right and still be all of those things.

I’m saying that the things that they’re getting criticized for and called those things for, are things they were right about. Not in a realpolitik sense or whatever you’re thinking of, but just in terms of common sense and what is actually depicted in the movies.

Post
#1591038
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

This is probably an unpopular opinion now. Return of the Jedi is way better than people think it is and most of their complaints are illegitimate. The Jabba sequence introduces Luke as an almost-complete Jedi, redeems Lando, and rescues Han, simultaneously resolving things that happened during the previous two movies and setting up the rest of this movie. The “pacing issues” of Endor are not really issues at all. No one complains about the early scenes of C3PO and R2D2 wandering around in the desert and getting captured by jawas in the original Star Wars, even though those scenes are even slower, because it just isn’t a problem unless you’re used to the cracked out modern editing of current movies.
The ewoks are fine and also not that different from jawas or ugnaughts. They show the Empire’s hubris, overlooking things they consider small or insignificant. They serve mainly as a distraction to pull the imperial troops into the forest away from the bunker, and the battle is only won because Han, Leia, and Chewie are crack shots and they have elite rebel troops to hold the bunker. If there’s one change I would make, it would be to just add more shots of the rebel soldiers doing more of the fighting.
The second death star is fine and the insanely good space battle and throne room scenes (both still never topped after 40 years of trying) wouldn’t be the same without it.
Leia being Luke’s sister is awkward but… so what? It’s funny and it’s a meme, but that’s it.
I understand that people love to complain because I also love to complain, but every time it comes up the Return of the Jedi criticisms are just unnecessarily cynical for no reason.

Post
#1591036
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

SparkySywer said:

Vladius said:

The line “once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny” is also misinterpreted. Yoda isn’t saying literally any time you get angry or use the Force in anger, you’re beyond hope or redemption. … The consequences of your actions will still be there.

I don’t agree. The full line is “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will! As it did Obi-Wan’s apprentice.”

Specifically look at Yoda’s usage of the word “consume”. Your actions and your decision making will eventually be completely affected by the dark side. It isn’t just that your life is marred by the consequences of your actions, although it is that too, he’s saying that you can’t just dip your toes in the dark side. It’s something that’ll pull you further and further in.

After Return of the Jedi, there’s irony in referring to Darth Vader because he does return to the light. But Darth Vader is, at this point in the story, fully committed to evil. Yoda brings him up to emphasize that once you turn to the dark side, you inevitably become like Darth Vader.

I’ve ranted about this many times before, but Yoda and Obi Wan were not telling Luke to kill Vader.

Luke: “I can’t kill my own father.”

Obi-Wan: “Then the Emperor has already won.”

Yes, and Yoda was right.

I addressed that already. Obi Wan is saying that Luke has to be willing to kill Vader, but he’s not sending him to kill Vader, as that would be pointless. The word they use is confront. I already posted this somewhere else but there’s a quote from one of the Timothy Zahn books where Luke talks about this, he says that he assumed that when they told him to confront Vader that that meant he would have to kill him, but that was wrong and that wasn’t necessarily what they meant. Not that that is Disney canon or G canon, but it shows that before the prequels that was the normal interpretation.

Post
#1584399
Topic
A New Hope - If you could add a scene of the emperor, where would you add it &amp; what would it be?
Time

I wouldn’t do it at all. But if I had to, it could be cool to have very cryptic, creepy 2-second shots of him sensing things through the Force. No explanation of who he is. Like maybe he feels some kind of ripple and his eyes open when Luke meets Obi Wan or tells him he wants to be a Jedi, he smiles when Alderaan gets blown up, and he looks irate when the death star is destroyed.

Post
#1584398
Topic
Show us the Death Star II construction
Time

Channel72 said:

The DS2 being constructed much faster than the DS1 really is not implausible at all. Of all the silliness in Star Wars, this is one of the least implausible things.

There’s many ways to easily explain this. It really depends on why the DS1 took so long. Firstly, the DS1 was developed secretly under a government that still nominally had some democratic organs and accountability to a pluralistic Senate. So planning, logistics, allocation of funds (a massive amount of funds!), would all need to be carefully orchestrated to appear harmless to the Senate, while also balancing the various competing interests inherent to any pluralistic governing body. But when constructing the DS2, the mask was already off. At that point, Palpatine was just like “Yeah, fuck it, I’m evil. Just deal with it.” So presumably there was no need to cleverly hide resource allocation to maintain a façade of accountability. Palpatine could allocate funds with dictatorial fiat.

Consider how in real life, planning and building the new World Trade Center tower in New York after 9/11 took over a decade, with around 8 years required for construction. Meanwhile, in the United Arab Emirates, a much larger tower, the Burj Khalifa, was constructed in only 5 years. This is because the construction companies involved in building the new WTC had to contend with the large bureaucracies and competing multi-agency interests in New York City, whereas the Burj Khalifa was constructed in a mostly monarchic (or oligarchic) state, with fewer competing interests.

Secondly, it’s also very plausible that part of the reason the DS1 took so long was due to the novel engineering and technical obstacles they encountered while building it. These obstacles needed to be overcome and solved for the first time, requiring extensive R & D. But once solutions were discovered, they knew exactly what to do the second time around. Perhaps they ran into technical difficulties with (I don’t know) heat diffusion caused by the superlaser. A lot of R & D would be required to solve this issue. But once an effective solution was discovered, they could easily replicate it a second time. This sort of thing is common in real-world engineering projects.

And thirdly, there was way more urgency to finish the project quickly the second time around, because after Yavin, the Empire was likely facing countless uprisings, badly straining the Imperial navy. The Empire played the “Tarkin doctrine” card but were then suddenly caught with no Death Star to back it up. They probably had to scramble to build a new one, while their military was stretched thin quelling endless uprisings.

So it’s really not particularly implausible to me that the DS2 could be constructed much faster than the first Death Star, because it was constructed under different political constraints with way more urgency, and they already solved all the engineering challenges required to create it the first time.

And finally, remember that the DS2 wasn’t actually ever completed. Presumably it still couldn’t move. And it was never demonstrated that the superlaser was yet capable of scaling up to the energy level required to blow up a planet.

You nailed it.

As another point, they could have even started working on the second death star before the first one was finished.

Post
#1583448
Topic
<strong>Pre-PT era lore</strong> | an OT &amp; EU scrapbook resource | additional info &amp; sources welcome
Time

timdiggerm said:

Channel72 said:

And I agree about Alderaan. I’ll never understand why Lucas created Naboo instead of just using Alderaan as one of the principal settings.

As much as I agree, I can’t help but feel that if he had done this, we’d be calling it the prime example of “universe shrinkage”

If Anakin wasn’t from Tatooine, Anakin didn’t build C3PO, and Jabba the Hutt, Boba Fett, and Chewbacca didn’t appear, it would be completely fine and no one would have said anything or been any the wiser.

Post
#1581345
Topic
<strong>The Jedi Purge</strong> | The Empire hunting down the Jedi Knights | a general discussion
Time

NFBisms said:

NOTE: Everything I’m about to say doesn’t mean I think the prequels are good

I don’t actually mind a lot of the PT’s lore on stuff like this; I find it infinitely more interesting that the story we knew secondhand via Old Ben wasn’t just exactly what those movies are, particularly within a narrative primed to disentangle and even criticize “from a certain point of view”. Even if most official material hasn’t taken full advantage of it (until Andor), I’ve always had a fondness for at least this era’s state of play.

Anakin / Darth Vader is purposefully re-contextualized as a kid, and I think there is some value in foregoing the fabled ‘Jedi Hunts’ (that were sure to have happened between canonical III and IV anyway) to examine what made the monster at earlier psychological and political points. He’s a failure of institution, radicalized by war, exploited by an abuser, abandoned by pedagogy. It’s a different flavor of tragedy than personal failure.

On some level, Vader’s evil is romanticized when depicted in a badass light; which would be far beyond a meaningful reason to do prequel films in the first place. I still enjoy stuff like Vader in Rebels, Rogue One, or the Respawn Jedi games, but I can respect that those weren’t new ground to break into the saga. They’re literally just depictions of what we know from the OT. The wholly imperfect execution didn’t make the prequel direction not worth doing IMO, and I can appreciate that it now lives in the objective text.

With regard to the surviving Jedi and Yoda calling Luke the last, an interesting question emerges in this context - What is a Jedi?

If our understanding of the Jedi has shifted from ANH’s idealized Knights Errant fable, to something closer to a monastic FBI and military branch - is ‘Jedi’ perhaps a political label, and not just a description of one’s relationship to the Force? After all, there are other Force users in-universe that are not Jedi. Whose to say that characters like Kanan, Cal, or Ahsoka are even Jedi [to Yoda] at all? Ahsoka was expelled before she could finish her training, Kanan and Cal gave up many aspects of the path to survive and fight back; none of them were in contact with or under the direction of the Rump Jedi Council of Kenobi and Yoda. Meanwhile Luke is trained by that council, the only project undertaken by them during the Galactic Civil War, and specifically has an uncomplicated view of who they were. It’s ultimately pedantic and matters mostly to justify Yoda’s line, but participation in The Order as institution is an important theme for Anakin’s downfall. It may very well be an important part of what makes “a Jedi” in the non-colloquial sense, to an official of its ranks such as Yoda.

Somewhere along the way this became an unpopular idea, but to me Luke not killing his father as counter to Obi-Wan and Yoda’s direction was always an early suggestion of what the PT would eventually, if dispassionately, present about the Jedi Order. So “The Jedi” may have been purged, but the light wasn’t and couldn’t be. I can square the survivor count with Yoda’s line when I think about how Yoda kind of sucked

Counterpoint - you’re wrong and all of this is worse, even if it was intentional on Lucas’s part, which it wasn’t.

Post
#1579665
Topic
<strong>Pre-PT era lore</strong> | an OT &amp; EU scrapbook resource | additional info &amp; sources welcome
Time

Channel72 said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

I really liked FOTR at the time, and still prefer it to what we actually got. Though imagination and our projections in filling in the blanks often triumphs reality. I’d love to see an animation or comic book form of it, even fan made, but then is so much of that early “what if?” stuff I’d like to see, along the lines of “The Star Wars” comics from 2013/14.

A common element across most fan speculation about the Prequels is that our imaginations concocted stories almost entirely based on elements from the OT. Things like Alderaan, Captain Antilles, spice mines of Kessel, etc. But Lucas obviously wanted to make the Prequels unique, with new settings, new characters, and completely unexpected plot developments. And since it was Lucas’ creativity and imagination that created Star Wars in the first place, it seemed likely that he would come up with amazing new things that far surpassed the mediocre imagination of the average fan.

And indeed he did come up with lots of new, unexpected stuff. Things like Gungans, mysterious clone conspiracies, a “chosen one” prophecy, Qui-Gon Jinn, General Grievous, Dexter Jettster, pod racing, etc. I mean, who could have expected that Episode I would go in an entirely bizarre direction - telling a Kurosawa-influenced side story about two Jedi Knights protecting a young Queen from evil invaders - a story almost completely unrelated to anything that happens in the OT. Lucas obviously wanted to flex his creative muscles, defying fan expectations to such a degree that the whole thing came off as wacky instead of cool. In retrospect, the pre-Prequel fan expectations - derivative and straightforward as they often were - sound like a much better “rough sketch” for the Prequels than what we ultimately got.

Out of that list of unexpected stuff, the only thing that was universally liked and well handled (maybe) was podracing. “At least it did something different” is always a bad excuse for this kind of thing.

That’s not a bizarre direction for episode 1 at all. You’re not winning any points by namedropping “Kurosawa-influenced” by alluding to The Hidden Fortress when the original Star Wars in 1977 was already drawing on that setup so heavily. If anything the prequels ruined those elements by making the Jedi the FBI instead of samurai.

The developments weren’t that unexpected given that they are prequels and some of the material was already written. Everyone knew going in that Anakin would become Darth Vader, Obi Wan would be a main character and train Anakin, the Emperor would be a main character and corrupt Anakin, the Emperor and Vader would kill the Jedi minus Yoda and Obi Wan, Luke and Leia’s mother would be a main character and some kind of royalty, and Luke and Leia would be born and get hidden from Vader. It’s not really fair to any fans or writers to say that they had a failure of imagination for sticking to what was already well established, especially given that writers were explicitly prevented from detailing very much about the prequel era.

For Alderaan specifically, it makes much more sense for Alderaan to be a part of the story than for Anakin to be from Tatooine, which was something Lucas chose to do over. He did re-use a lot of ideas and imagery, it’s just that people nowadays credit that to Ring Theory or something rather than a lack of imagination or to fanservice.

Post
#1575455
Topic
<strong>The New Republic era</strong> | from post-ROTJ to the Sequel Trilogy | a general discussion
Time

You’re spot on! There’s no rescuing it though, it’s too late. The only scenario I can think of that would salvage it would be if they separated this part of Disney canon out into its own sphere and went extremely wacky with it. Like basically turn it into a convoluted over the top anime series full of the most absurd retcons and “lore” details.
This is why I actually liked Rise of Skywalker, it started to do that. Very fast paced, cracked out editing, stupid sith daggers, possessed C3PO, goofy unnecessary characters, new force powers everywhere, meme dialogue, Palpatine returning and shooting bass boosted lightning into the sky, etc. Setting all the other problems with The Last Jedi aside, Rise of Skywalker was so much more fun. Just take that to its logical conclusion instead of trying to do a very serious important story about the rise of fascism or whatever. (not referring to Andor)
Doing a high quality Andor-level series would just be wasted on something that doesn’t deserve that treatment.

If we were starting over from scratch, that’s another story.

Post
#1573927
Topic
<strong>Pre-PT era lore</strong> | an OT &amp; EU scrapbook resource | additional info &amp; sources welcome
Time

Excellent work.

Reading through all of it at once, it’s surprising how compatible a lot of it is with how the prequels turned out. The structure of how the Republic fell and became the Empire is all there. The parts that prequel fans are stubbornly attached to seem to be droid armies, the Republic being the side with the clones, and the Jedi being “blind” (dumb). Imagine how much more impactful the betrayal of the Jedi would be if it came from normal people they served alongside with and not programmed clones, or from Anakin stalking them and relying on the well-earned trust they have in him.

Post
#1573308
Topic
Star Wars Headcanons
Time

The Force has an aspect, somewhat separate from its other aspects, responsible for the existence of life and consciousness. Not necessarily life force or life energy or whatever, but just the spark of being. This is how droids can be sentient living beings even though they don’t otherwise register in the Force. This is how ysalimiri and other creatures that block the Force can do so without harming themselves or life around them. This is how the Jedi Exile survived and continued living while cut off from the Force, and also how they got it back. I haven’t read all the Yuuzhan Vong books but I imagine this would also apply to them.

Post
#1572943
Topic
What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be?
Time

I thought the clone wars were plural because they were a number of conflicts that all kind of sprang up at once or close together due to cloning being invented or made easier somehow. Any group of systems, warlord or terrorist cell suddenly had the capability to make a clone army, and it destabilized the whole galaxy until cloning was somehow banned or prevented or all the would-be rogue cloners (what the Thrawn books call the Clone Masters) were dealt with. It would have been even more chaotic because you could use clones to impersonate people and sow confusion and paranoia.

Post
#1572940
Topic
What did you think the Clone Wars were gonna be?
Time

NeverarGreat said:

There’s that as well, but I’ve always found it a strange and horrifying implication that a clone’s death is more justifiable than the death of a more ‘normal’ person. I’ve even seen people online specifically saying that clones aren’t really people, so it’s okay that they are dying by the thousands.

I honestly would have just preferred it if George had given us a Republic army vs Clones, because at least then there would be no denying that this war was waged at horrible human cost, no matter how a person viewed the clones. As it is, the ‘family friendly’ marketing of droids vs clones implies that clones are less than a true person, and for me is far more ethically insidious than just admitting that war is inseparable from atrocity.

No no no, you don’t get it, it’s to show how the Jedi have lost their touch, how far the Jedi have fallen! (from what? we don’t know)