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Vigo

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8-May-2006
Last activity
24-Jan-2008
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Post
#298111
Topic
Just noticed in ANH SE
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Good catch--its a digital foreground cross to hide a time-cut. Original Rebel pilot remembers Luke's father as a great pilot that he knew as a boy. Thats why Rebel leader's attitude changes rather abruptly. The original scene scene had Biggs say "Sir, Luke is the best bush pilot in the outer rim territories," to which Rebel Leader says "Skywalker? I knew your father when I was a boy. He was a great pilot. If your half the man he was you'll do okay." The middle part was cut out and hidden with a digital foreground cross of an extra.


Yeah, I heard about that story, but it really baffles me how amateurish this scene has been put together. It's really embarassing once you notice it.

There is another goof. During this scene switch, a person in the background is attempting to exit the frame to the left side. Once the CGI foreground person has passed him, he is suddenly gone.

Every person defending the theory that Vader has always been Luke's father & the main focus of the saga should ask him/herself: why have the deleted scenes of "Star Wars" never been released?
Post
#298054
Topic
Just noticed in ANH SE
Time
When you watch the additional scene in the Rebel Base where Luke is talking to Biggs, something which appears to be a CGI added person walks past them. Notice R2 being lift up on the right side of the screen. Before the CGI added person passes him, he is far away in the background. Once the person passed him, he suddenly is much nearer to the front! It seems this scene was edited to hide something.
Post
#292655
Topic
A New Direction For The Petition
Time
I think this would be the next logical step. Perhaps the new petition should focus on the aspect that the OOT should finally be acknowledged by Lucasfilm again, and that they should restore it to make a high definition release possible for future generations to enjoy. Preservation should be the main focus, because the original films are, no matter what the creator thinks of them now, a valuable piece of movie history, and thus, deserve to be seen.

I think this should start as soon as possible to built up enough "fuzz" before Lucasfilm will release the trilogy again, because they have to go back to the original negatives once more to remaster them in hi-def (since the 2004 restorations were not done completely in full HD, and were rushed). If the buzz is strong enough, maybe they will decide at the right point in time to remaster the original scenes along with the updated version.
Post
#287977
Topic
The Visual Effects Society Unveils “50 Most Influential Visual Effects Films of All Time”
Time
Interesting list, but there are some choices which I strongly disagree with:


Dragonheart is missing! It featured the first full CGI main character along a real life actor in a real environment! Idiots...

Blade Runner being before 2001: A Space Odyssey. 2001 was a gigantic milestone in special effects, which may indeed having been a much bigger influence than Star Wars..

Metropolis was also a major breakthrough in special effects, and doesn't deserve a place behind films like Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Alien...

Forrest Gump also deserves a higher place, since it is the first movie which incorporated realistic CGI special effects to tell a story, which is very common nowadays.

I wouldn't rank the special effects of "The Terminator" influential at all. T2 however, was also a major breakthrough.


Their problem is, they don't seem to distinguish between most influential special effects and most influential movies. For example, I wouldn't consider Alien a classic because of its special effects, which were standard in 1979. Star Trek: TMP had much more sophisticated special effects. Blade Runner had great Special effects, but the movie was most influential because of its complex theme, cinematography, and atmosphere. 2001 however, is both known for its breakthrough special effects and its complex story.

There are other choices of films which I would consider for this list:

Flowers and Trees (1932) being the first released piece of cinema in full 3 strip Technicolor.
Willow (1987) had the first CGI morphs, which a lot of movies and TV series copied.
Howard the Duck (1986) had the first CGI wire removal (no joke!), which is basically a standard practice today in movies. It is not on the list because hardly anyone knows this fact, or the movie.
Battleship Potemkin (1925) for one of the first demonatrations of the power of cutting.
Post
#287972
Topic
The Visual Effects Society Unveils “50 Most Influential Visual Effects Films of All Time”
Time
Originally posted by: gallandro It was the first movie to have a completely CG main character (Years before the Two Towers)


Wrong. The first movie featuring a completely CG main character is Dragonheart which came out 3 years earlier than Phantom Menace.

If I would be picky, I could also refer to the MCP from Tron.
Post
#260369
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: vbangle
Ah, what are you using as a connection between your PS2 and your TV? Composite? I doubt if your PS2 will output an anamorphic picture via a composite connection....I think it needs to be component....I'm probably wrong though.


Anamorphic output does not change resolution. It is still 720x480 NTSC. You can even watch the anamorphic, unsqueezed picture on a 4:3 TV if you set up your player to 16:9. Therefore, it doesn´t matter what kind of video connection you use.
Post
#260275
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Downconverting's not the issue with older units (like mine) ... it's upconverting.

Upconverting to what? The only upconverting DVD Players do nowadays is to progressive scan.


I don't know that it can properly display anamorphically .... I've never seen a control option to switch it from one to the other ... though I also haven't looked too hard, since I don't have a widescreen display. Hmmm, I'll have to dig out the manual.


If the picture has the correct aspect ratio on your 4:3 TV, apparently your DVD Player is set correctly to Letterbox mode.


But, yeah, being a laserdisc/DVD combo, rest assured it was one of the first units ever manufactured.


Yup, I think the last combo players were made in 1999.
Post
#260227
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
I guess you are wrong, let´s consider the first DVD player manufactured, the Toshiba SD-3000

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/1996_09/pr2603.htm


The SD-3000 fully complies with the unified DVD standard, which Toshiba took the lead in setting.

Every DVD Player HAS to support downconverting anamorphic to letterbox.

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/1996_09/e2603/doc03.htm


# Multi-aspect feature
DVD supports Squeeze system whereby full-spec information of wide-aspect images is compressed to 4:3 images and stored on a disc. With a wide-screen TV, squeezed images are returned to 16:9 wide-aspect images in Full mode for reproduction of high-quality images. With a 4:3 TV, squeezed images are reproduced in Letter-box format or Pan & Scan. With Letter-box, wide-aspect images are displayed on a 4:3 screen with black margins at top and bottom of the image, and with Pan & Scan, some portions of wide-aspect images are deleted to fit a 4:3 format.


http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/1996_09/imgdat/img2615.gif
Post
#260224
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Not all DVD players have such an option. The earliest ones do not ... just as the earliest DVDs were not anamorphic.


If that´s true, this must be VERY early players from end of 1996 to middle of 1997. And no, some of the earliest DVD´s were already anamorphic (Blade Runner). The digital sat reciever we have from 1998 also supports this feature, and my first Philips DVD player from 1999 supports it, too. I mean, it is no technical challenge to remove video lines.
Post
#260221
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
Fang Zei, it's not true that all non-anamorphic widescreen DVDs were made from old transfers. For instance, the 1999 "Yellow Submarine" DVD was non-anamorphic widescreen and it was made from a newly-restored print of the film, which had never been used for any previous video release.

I know that one off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are others.


Yellow Submarine is 1.66:1 and as I already pointed out, this format has been dealt with differently from DVD to DVD release, because it is a "nearly-widescreen" format. The others you are thinking of are probably the same cases. Clockwork Orange for instance is a new, non-anamorphic transfer exclusively made for DVD, and it is a 1.66:1 movie like Yellow Submarine.
Post
#260123
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: Fang Zei

I'm just wondering if there are widescreen dvd's out there that were mastered from actual film elements but for some reason were presented on dvd 4:3 letterbox instead of anamorphically.


Well, if you think about it, every 35mm movie transferred to video is mastered from 35mm elements. You probably mean if any new non-anamorphic transfer was specifically made for DVD for widescreen movies.

The answer is: no. Every non-anamorphic transfer is either a non-widescreen movie, or the DVD was mastered using an old laserdisc/video master.
Post
#260109
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: Fang Zei
Now we can get back on topic...again.

I've been wondering something about widescreen movies that were not presented in anamorphic video on dvd. Does anyone have an example of one that was presented that way for some other reason besides it being made from laserdisk masters.

To make my question a little clearer or to ask it in a different way, are there widescreen (1.78:1 or wider) dvd's out there that were mastered from film elements but not presented in anamorphic video?


The general rule is: as soon as material is 1,78:1 wide, it can be presented anamorphically enhanced on DVD. The typical picture formats are 1.85:1, 2.20:1, 2.35:1.
There was a common format used in the 60´s and 70´s: 1.66:1, which is a little bit less wide than 1.78:1. This format has been handled differently from release to release:

- Cut it down to 1.78:1 and make an anamorphic transfer
- Make a non-anamorphic transfer (called Letterbox)
- Make an anamorphic transfer by shrinking the picture, adding small black bars at both sides of the picture. (called Windowboxing)

Post
#260093
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Originall posted by: Vigo

Oh no! The Bratwurst! Mit Sauerkraut!

I recite: McDonald´s, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Subway, Dunkin' Donuts,...... With lots of pancakes, sweet soda, a milkshake....

Come on guys! You produce more food than you can eat yourself! You are the inventors of FAST FOOD. "Super-Size-Me" is an American movie for a good reason.

Hey now, have you not seen Subway's commercials?! Subway is good for you!

Subway is good for you (leave off the mayo and mustard). Out of all the fast food places mentioned, Subway is probably the best place to eat. The proof is actually better than "Super-Size-Me". One takes a look at personal responsibility (Jared and Subway). The other takes a look at just taking everything fast food has to offer. The only thing "Super-Size-Me" proved is that as long as people don't even try to control themselves, they'll get bigger. Some other lady actually managed to lose weight on an all McDonald's diet, so take "Super-Size-Me" with a huge grain of salt.

Ummm... McDonald's Diet??? *LOL* Yes, one BigMac per day and a diet coke makes you healthy, wealthy and wise... I can´t imagine how big the laughter would be if McDonald's would try such a marketing gag here.

Nevertheless, it's funny how fast McDonald's reacted to Super-Size-Me by introducing salads, trying to shake off the negative image. Imagine, SALADS!!!!! WHAT AN INNOVATION!!!

McDonald's diet. Two people lost about 30 pounds each, eating nothing but McDonald's.

So what? What does that prove? If you count calories, you can lose weight everywhere, right. But, why are many Americans not doing this? Simple, food is cheap and in plenty of masses available in America. McDonald´s and all other fast food chains' marketing is all about this, selling chunks of food. This is why you are a nation of overweights.


McDonald's had salads for years before Super-Size-Me came out.


Yeah, but they were not really advertized. Advertizing for the salads went up big time after the movie came out. And they added plenty of new salads to their program.


The only thing Super-Size-Me did was make McDonald's try to inform people more about their salads. They're not trying to shake off a negative image from Super-Size-
Me, they're trying to avoid a lawsuit, something people love doing in this country.

Ummm, you are contradicting yourself right now. Apparantly, of course they want to inform people about their salads. Why? Because they care for the health of people? Because they think people like salads more than hamburgers? No! Becasue they want to avoid lawsuits. Public relations. Image.


Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: lordjedi

I'm sure someone can name 5 or 6 German restaurants that if people ate at uncontrollably would cause the same problem. Remember, it doesn't matter if you eat at a nice restaurant or a fast food place, you can still get fat from eating to much fatty foods.

We don´t have our own fast food chains. The only fast food chains here are American. We used to have one (Wiener Wald), but it fell into obscurity when McDonald´s became popular among the youth here in the 80's and 90's.

Nevertheless, the most popular fast food in Germany is Turkish, and called Döner Kebap. Not the Bratwurst.....

And I sincerely hope you don't compare Restaurants here with fast food chains. I don't know what Restaurants you have over there...

I was not talking about fast food chains exclusively. I wasn't comparing them with restaurants either. I was simply making the statement that you could in fact do the same thing (gain lots of weight) by only eating out at restaurants if you don't pay attention to what you eat. It doesn't matter where you eat the junk food if that's all you're eating.

Yeah, absolutely right. But: you are missing the point. America has a huge overweight problem. I saw it myself with my own eyes. More than average number of people weighting at least 250-300 pounds. And: it´s not only the masses of food you are producing/consuming. It´s what you actually put in the food. Sweet Sodas with high fructose sugar. Yum! Sweet muffins with tons of sugar in it. Deep fried bread with lots of fat. I tried it myself when I was in the USA, because my colleague told me that when he visited the USA and stayed for 3 months, he actually gained pounds without eating more. Believe it, or don´t believe it. >I< know what I experienced.

Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: lordjedi

I guess I expected a little better from you Vigo. Do some real research on the Kyoto treaty to see who the real gross polluters are (hint: it's not the U.S.) before you go spouting off about it. It's meant to cut emissions from "industrialized nations", but since China is still considered a third world nation, they get to continue to pollute as much as they want, even though they're one of the worst polluters on the planet right now.

From a European perspective, both the USA and China are the big polluters, you are right. China is a 2nd world nation, and yes, they are indeed about to surpass you both in economical power and of course environmental pollution. So again, sorry if I have been sooo hard to Americans.

Just look at the gas prices you had when I was in San Francisco in October this year. 2,35$ per gallon!!!! Do you know how expensive fuel here in Europe is? 7$!!!!!! Look at the cars you drive. You are literally throwing energy away and flushing it down the toilet! Why? Because you can still afford it. Driving an American car in Germany is ridiculously expensive.

Yeah, because 50% of your gas price is tax. Take away all those taxes and our gas prices start to become about the same.


Yuppie-doo! Yes, of course. But again, you are missing the point: we can not afford to drive huge, wasteful cars. Now, what do you think, is the reaction from our automotive Industry and the people to those restrictions? Hmmm, can you figure that out yourself?


So what if we drive big cars. Yeah, maybe people shouldn't be driving around in giant cars that they don't need, but they're free to do that.


Yes, you are free to do that, Yuppie-doo! Like a real American, you don´t need foreign strangers talking to your senses, who just want to take your cars away, because they are MEAN, and Anti-American!


It hits them in the pocket book everytime they fill up. I'm sure I can buy a car here that wouldn't be "ridiculously expensive" to drive over there. I obviously wouldn't buy an SUV though.


Did you actually got my point at all? Again: huge and wasteful cars are expensive, you seem to have figured that out. Now, what do they do, too, if they are wasteful, hmm?


Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: lordjedi
And you might want to do some homework on the whole "ignoring thing" since we never fully approved it here (Clinton signed it, Congress did not approve it).


Congratulations. That´s why Americans need movies like "An Inconvenient Truth", which explain facts that almost every nation in Europe knew 20-25 years ago. And yet, a lot of you seem to believe it is just a pro Gore, pro democratic propaganda plot.


LOL. Again, you're basing your comments on a Michael Moore esque documentary.


Huh? You admitted yourself that your Congress did not approve it. I clearly interpret this as huge ignorance and shortsightedness.


There are plenty of differing schools of thought on what's causing global warming and vehicle emissions are but one of them.


Yes, your government loves to citate those very few scientists left in the minority, who still doubt that global warming is caused by industrialization.... Do I see lots of $$$ bills from Industry lobbies? Nah....


Don't just watch the "documentary", go investigate the facts for yourself. Every scientists here knows just as much as all the nations in Europe know about global warming too.


Which makes it even worse. And if you talk facts, you Americans should know better than us Germans what effect global warming can cause........ There you have your "facts".


This isn't a "Europe" vs "America" thing.


True, because in the end, it affects us all alike. This is why it is my DUTY to discuss it with you boneheads! "Oh no, he called us boneheads!!!!! What an insult!!!! Jehova!"


Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: lordjedi
I don't really have anything on topic to say, I'm just getting tired of seeing your constant ignorance toward what goes on in the U.S. Sure, I may not know much about what goes on in Germany, but you don't see me posting a bunch of negative talking points that I've heard on the news or talk radio.


How can you say I´m being ignorant if you admit that all the reference points you have is, in fact, only your own country?


Because you are being ignorant.



Wow! What an argument!


Before, I thought you were making statements based on facts. Now, I can tell your statements are only based on negative talking points.


Believe me, no matter what I would do here, I couldn't convince you. You choose to wear pink glasses over a critical view, and national pride over common sense. Fine. I guess you have to learn it the hard way.


You haven't actually done any research on what you've posted about.


Of course. I trust my own eyes. I know the difference between living in the USA and living in Europe/Germany. You are the one trying to debate by quoting MSNBC articles.


If you'd bother to spend a few minutes googling around about the stuff you posted about, you'd see that you've got most of it wrong.


Absolutely not. Very few scientists still believe Global Warming is NOT caused by human mistakes. This is the general consensus which can be read everywhere. Only in America, people have still doubt about it. Some of you even still have doubt in evolution theory...


I'm sure I can dig up plenty of crap about Germany. I just don't see the necessity to do it.


That´s right. Because we are actually very critical of ourselves. I never said we are perfect. We do a lot of mistakes, too. Whoopie-doo!

I'll continue to go off topic as long as you continue to make grossly invalid statements in an "us" vs "them" tone.


And this is the sad part. YOu fail to realize that most of the things we are discussing here affect us all.
Post
#260035
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Originall posted by: Vigo

Oh no! The Bratwurst! Mit Sauerkraut!

I recite: McDonald´s, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Subway, Dunkin' Donuts,...... With lots of pancakes, sweet soda, a milkshake....

Come on guys! You produce more food than you can eat yourself! You are the inventors of FAST FOOD. "Super-Size-Me" is an American movie for a good reason.

Hey now, have you not seen Subway's commercials?! Subway is good for you!

Subway is good for you (leave off the mayo and mustard). Out of all the fast food places mentioned, Subway is probably the best place to eat. The proof is actually better than "Super-Size-Me". One takes a look at personal responsibility (Jared and Subway). The other takes a look at just taking everything fast food has to offer. The only thing "Super-Size-Me" proved is that as long as people don't even try to control themselves, they'll get bigger. Some other lady actually managed to lose weight on an all McDonald's diet, so take "Super-Size-Me" with a huge grain of salt.

Ummm... McDonald's Diet??? *LOL* Yes, one BigMac per day and a diet coke makes you healthy, wealthy and wise... I can´t imagine how big the laughter would be if McDonald's would try such a marketing gag here.

Nevertheless, it's funny how fast McDonald's reacted to Super-Size-Me by introducing salads, trying to shake off the negative image. Imagine, SALADS!!!!! WHAT AN INNOVATION!!!


I'm sure someone can name 5 or 6 German restaurants that if people ate at uncontrollably would cause the same problem. Remember, it doesn't matter if you eat at a nice restaurant or a fast food place, you can still get fat from eating to much fatty foods.


We don´t have our own fast food chains. The only fast food chains here are American. We used to have one (Wiener Wald), but it fell into obscurity when McDonald´s became popular among the youth here in the 80's and 90's.

Nevertheless, the most popular fast food in Germany is Turkish, and called Döner Kebap. Not the Bratwurst.....

And I sincerely hope you don't compare Restaurants here with fast food chains. I don't know what Restaurants you have over there...


I guess I expected a little better from you Vigo. Do some real research on the Kyoto treaty to see who the real gross polluters are (hint: it's not the U.S.) before you go spouting off about it. It's meant to cut emissions from "industrialized nations", but since China is still considered a third world nation, they get to continue to pollute as much as they want, even though they're one of the worst polluters on the planet right now.


From a European perspective, both the USA and China are the big polluters, you are right. China is a 2nd world nation, and yes, they are indeed about to surpass you both in economical power and of course environmental pollution. So again, sorry if I have been sooo hard to Americans.

Just look at the gas prices you had when I was in San Francisco in October this year. 2,35$ per gallon!!!! Do you know how expensive fuel here in Europe is? 7$!!!!!! Look at the cars you drive. You are literally throwing energy away and flushing it down the toilet! Why? Because you can still afford it. Driving an American car in Germany is ridiculously expensive.


And you might want to do some homework on the whole "ignoring thing" since we never fully approved it here (Clinton signed it, Congress did not approve it).


Congratulations. That´s why Americans need movies like "An Inconvenient Truth", which explain facts that almost every nation in Europe knew 20-25 years ago. And yet, a lot of you seem to believe it is just a pro Gore, pro democratic propaganda plot.


I don't really have anything on topic to say, I'm just getting tired of seeing your constant ignorance toward what goes on in the U.S. Sure, I may not know much about what goes on in Germany, but you don't see me posting a bunch of negative talking points that I've heard on the news or talk radio.


How can you say I´m being ignorant if you admit that all the reference points you have is, in fact, only your own country?
Post
#260034
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
You know this thread is just spiraling out of control- I just wanted to understand how the OOT DVD could be made state of the art in 1993 in an era of HD and widescreen TV


When Lucasfilm is saying, the transfer was state-of-the-art in 1993, they are referring to the restoration, not the picture quality.

Understand that film restoration is a relatively new subject, and that a lot of progress has been made during the last 15 years. 2 reasons for this:

1. Film studios wanted to make money by releasing their film libraries on DVD but had to realize their film stock was in a horrendous state, thus the increased need to do film restoration.
2. Huge increase in computer processing power and storage capacity. In 1993, you had a highly advanced(!!) PC if you had 66Mhz, 8MB Ram, 540MB harddisk and a 17" monitor with a Vesa Local Bus graphics card running 800x600 in 16bit colour. The thought of playing back compressed digital videos at 720x480 in 24bit colour from a 8,9GB (over 9000 MB!!!) optical disc consumer format (DVD) was insane back then. Now imagine how big the hurdles were back then to digitize a whole movie in HD resolution and have the processing power to do a digital cleanup, for a consumer product!
Post
#259925
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Back on topic...

Originally posted by: BeeJay
Originally posted by: Fang Zei(*all prior texts taken into account*) To give the altered version the expected standard treatment and to give the original unaltered a substandard treatment is not fair at all, is it?

It is somewhat fair, though. Depending on whether a Star Wars fan likes widescreen or anamorphic, it remains relative. For instance: the 2004 DVD's might bother some fans because they were not letterbox widescreen. There has to be fans out there who are equally as disappointed with the 2004 release as many of you are disappointed with the 2006 OOT release (not for the movie changes, but from the POV of letterbox VS anamorphic)

Huh??? Umm, why should there be fans of letterbox widescreen? You get it automatically when you set your DVD player to 4:3 letterbox mode. The player downscales the picture then, so that anamorphic discs look correct on 4:3 TV sets.


I really like how on some DVD's, they give you the option of if you want FS or WS. A matter of preference determines what we as individuals will choose to watch.

Fullscreen is something completely different than letterbox. Fullscreen is a full 4:3 picture using the whole 720x480 resolution. Letterbox is a non 4:3 picture formatted for a 4:3 TV at 720x480.


What I'm saying, is that even if the September 2006 OOT was presented in anamorphic widescreen, there no doubt some would be fans on here talking about the disappointment they feel that it wasn't letterbox widescreen.


Perhaps only to those who know shit about video formats, and fail to set their DVD player to 4:3 letterbox mode.....


Maybe Lucas chose it that way to fulfill the needs of letterbox fans?


To fulfil the need of "letterbox fans" (who is a fan of lower resolution?), you just have to configure the DVD player correctly.


The altered OT was all anamorphic widescreen, so he had already appealed to anamorphic fans.


Eugh... What a gibberish nonsense are you talking here???


Why not be more fair to everyone by also presenting something unique (the OOT finally on DVD) inside of letterbox format?


????

Seriously, are you on drugs?
Post
#259612
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr

Sorry Vigo, but you don't get to say things like "You are probably American, and will most probably never set foot on another continent besides your own. And if you do, the first thing you will do is heading to the next McDonald´s, avoiding exposure to too much foreign culture mixing up your precious little brain." and then try to avoid responsibility for what you've said by saying something lame like "sorry if I offended anyone".

Yeah, I´m really avoiding responsibility here. By saying that Germans, like every other nation, also has "bad traits" etc... You are agnry at me, ok fine, I can understand that. I realize I deserve it. But you are seriously wrong if you say that I am making it easy for myself now.


You made a gross generalization about Americans, and my response to you was way more polite than it should have been

Well, go ahead an be unpolite. I like honesty more than politeness. Other people obviously feel the other way around. And if you think that I´m gross, well, maybe I am, but perhaps maybe it is also true that you are taking yourself too fucking important right now. No one is perfect. Your nation is not perfect, my nation is not perfect. We both can be sterotyped in a certain way.

Now go ahead, hate me, if you feel better now! I for instance, don't hate you.

What a stupid assumption that if you mock and make fun of something, you atomatically hate it...


, and yet instead of apologizing, you went on to hurl some more insults at Americans?

Well, as I said again, nobody likes to be critized. Nobody likes other people holding up a mirror in front of you.

Again, I apologize to you. However, nevertheless, I stand by my statement that there is at least some truth in everything. If you can´t handle this, well, then I am truly sorry for you.


I don't assume that all Germans are Nazis, (and I've been to Germany, BTW, and my Grandfather was of German extraction- although he still fought in WWII to defend Europe against the Nazis), and I find it as offensive for you to call Americans "ignorant" as I'm sure you do for someone to refer to Germans as "Nazis".

I never said Americans are ignorant. I said Amiericans tend to be ignorant about the world >around< them. THIS IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE. A VERY HUGE DIFFERENCE. If you fail to realize these small, but important nuances in my statement, so be it. Go on, hate me. Hate makes you strong! Only your hate can destroy me now! Either you are with us or against us! Black or white! Zero or one! Friend or enemy!! American or Anti-American!!!


(Also, yes, you got something "serious wrong". Canadians are NOT referred to as "Americans" they are "Canadians". Mexicans also live in North America, and are referred to as "Mexicans"). Maybe if you had ever set foot in Canada or Mexico you would know that.

Of course I know that. Funny you automatically assume I wouldn´t know that. But you all are living on the American continent. And YOU are a citizen of the United States of America. Of course you could call Germans Germans, but you could also call us Europeans. But by saying you are European, you are not automatically assuming that the person you are talking to is German, French, English, Polish, etc... Whatever nation you think of. On the other hand, if I say "Americans", everyone assumes that citizens of the USA are adressed. Maybe it´s my weird Old-European(tm) thinking of different nations living together peacefully on the same continent, and treated equally, messing my brain up here.


It's too damn bad if you don't like George W. Bush - what he has to do with someone correcting your spelling I guess makes sense only in your own brain.


I didn´t say that. You do it now. By walking, simplifying and generalizing everything I wrote in the last posts. Okay, perhaps I deserve it, since I apparently was generalizing, too.


Originally posted by: Vigo
Well, telling a fat lady that she is, in fact, fat, is an insult, correct. A honest one, though.

...and would be extremely cruel and rude.


Rude, yes. But why cruel? You know what is in fact REALLY cruel? People talking behind your back! Smiling towards you, holding the knife behind them. YOu surely would like that, wouldn't you?


Originally posted by: bigmonkey20
I guess in Vigo's mind, we're all fat, lazy and ignorant.


Originally posted by: Vigo
Statistically, you are in fact the "fattest" nation on the planet. Everything concerning food coming from your culture is "fat fat fat". Does this say that all of you are fat?

Someone who comes from the country that invented bratwurst has a lot of nerve criticizing "fat" American food.


Oh no! The Bratwurst! Mit Sauerkraut!

I recite: McDonald´s, Burger King, Pizza Hut, Kentucky Fried Chicken, Subway, Dunkin' Donuts,...... With lots of pancakes, sweet soda, a milkshake....

Come on guys! You produce more food than you can eat yourself! You are the inventors of FAST FOOD. "Super-Size-Me" is an American movie for a good reason.


Originally posted by: VigoDid I say that all Americans are ignorant? Now YOU are being ignorant. An ignorant American. See what I mean?

And you are an ignorant German. See what I mean? Don't be offended, though!


Yes I am very offended now. You insulted me and broke my heart. I mean, I AM SUPPOSED TO BE IGNORANT??? I AM PERFECT!!! Yes, PERRRRFECT. Look at my beauty!

See what I mean?
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#259356
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Whoa, I didn't mean to touch off a firestorm.

It wasn´t you.


Vigo, your command of the English language is so proficient, I assumed you were merely making a spelling error ... and not posting in a second (or in your case, third) language. Furthermore, if it's the proper spelling in Germany, a simple statement to that effect (as I requested) would have been sufficient.

Perhaps yes. But yesterday, I was in such a bad mood, I reacted very strongly to this. I´m sorry.


In any case, as a German, you are likely to be upset a bit by common internet terms such as "spelling nazi" and "grammer nazi." I think you will just have to develop a thicker skin about it.

You are getting me wrong. If you say Nazi, I don´t identify myself with it. I never harmed a single person in my life, and although I may give a different impression in this thread, I´m neither a rascist, nor do I judge people before I know them. The problem is, I came off totally wrong. I did not say that all Americans are like that. I was merely pointing out that no one is perfect, and that Americans have a tendency to think they are. If you are insulted by that, I´m sorry. Every nation has its typical "bad traits". You think the French people are arrogant. French people think Americans are arrogant. We Germans are the former "evildoers" of the world. Dutch people are smoking pot and watching porn all day...


The term has been co-opted for any kind of extreme, since it is the epitome of extremism. (Similarly, in the States, every politcal scandal is the something-gate, referring (in perpetuity it seems) to an ultimate example of political scandal). No one meant offense by using the term "spelling nazi" ... and I meant no offense by being one.


No, the only thing bothering me, and Nazi is not the only word, is that by using it too much, in every context, the world loses its important meaning. I mean, if you call everyone a Nazi as a generic insult, the crimes of the past also become somewhat "generic".


Likewise, I took no offense at your comment about my countrymen.


I also took no offense. I was just pointing out that we all can easily make ourselves look ignorant.


Many are fat and lazy and stupid and I guess a majority of them elected George Bush. Nuff said. But I don't fit the description of the ugly American, and so I looked past your generalization.


Yes, good reaction. If anyone would write "All Germans are Nazis", my rection to this would be "Why do you think so?" and listen to it.

YOu are right, I came off as generalizing people. I want to apologize for that.


Please do the same about the 'nazi' phrase, and please accept my apologies about your spelling in a non-native tongue..


I took no offense at your remark. I´m sorry. I reacted wrong and I made a mistake, ok?

When I wrote this, I thought people would look more at my last sentence, when I said "I´m sorry if I offend anyone, but ignorant posts like this drive me nuts."
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#259331
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Originally posted by: Vigo
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Good job Vigo, now we have two ignorant posters. Maybe next time you'll simply point out to the spelling nazi that it's not spelled that way in your country. At least that way you won't make yourself look just as ignorant as the other guy.

I wouldn´t dare calling someone a Nazi for this reason. You know what a Nazi is? You know what Nazis did to people? I hate it when people use this word so lightly, as if Nazis were just "overly correct", fun spoiling people.

You see, it´s easy for anyone to make oneself look very ignorant.

I'm very well aware of what the nazis did Vigo and I don't take the term lightly. I used a common internet term to illustrate a point.

As soon as this word is used as a common term for annoying people, it is losing its true meaning. This is what´s bothering me. The same goes for "terrorist".


Anyway, it looks like I touched a nerve and I'm sorry for that. My intent was to point out that you assumed a "lazy american" didn't know anything. Well, this "lazy American" has been beyond his country's borders (Japan and Mexico, I don't usually count Mexico). And no, I didn't look for a McDonald's when I got to Japan. This "lazy American" enjoyed your post, but I didn't enjoy your generalized attack on my nationality.


Point out where I did you call you a "lazy American". And I am happy that you seem to be someone who knows other places aswell and are not afraid of other cultures.


Now that I've read all the messages, I can see that you're not the only one with an axe to grind. I'll put my comments about Germany's dark past on hold.


No, feel free to tell me everything you want. I am not afraid to talk about our dark past. In fact, we Germans know best about our past than most other countries. We extensively learn it in school. Our television is full of in-depth historic reports of all our cruelties we did. Don´t think you can tell US anything which we already do not know.

On the other hand, most Americans will gladly point out that Hitler was the most famous German...


Maybe you should educate yourself on some of the "international treaties" that we're "violating" and not just watch the nightly news in your country.


Ok, perhaps I should be more confident in what political leaders are saying, right? Or listen to what YOUR, of course totally objective, media is reporting, right?
Post
#259283
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: bigmonkey20
I'm sorry, but country bashing is fucking dumb.

Pretending that everything is A-OK is also dumb. Now let´s find the middle way.


Yes he corrected your typo


He didn´t.

, but you don't have to insult ones country.

Well, telling a fat lady that she is, in fact, fat, is an insult, correct. A honest one, though.


I guess in Vigo's mind, we're all fat, lazy and ignorant.


Statistically, you are in fact the "fattest" nation on the planet. Everything concerning food coming from your culture is "fat fat fat". Does this say that all of you are fat? Did I say that all Americans are ignorant? Now YOU are being ignorant. An ignorant American. See what I mean?


We're sorry for gracing you with our presence, Vigo.


*sigh* Now the drama queens are coming on board, too.


Edit- Ah hell, I think I figured out George Lucas' problem, this entire time, he's so stubborn. He was born in the USA, that must be it holy hell. We've figured it out, once he steps foot in Germany. He'll love th OOT and the prequals will cease to exist.


Nope, even worse. Jar Jar Bings would have worn Lederhosen in the PT.
Post
#259281
Topic
Has technology accelerated that much?
Time
Originally posted by: lordjedi
Good job Vigo, now we have two ignorant posters. Maybe next time you'll simply point out to the spelling nazi that it's not spelled that way in your country. At least that way you won't make yourself look just as ignorant as the other guy.


I wouldn´t dare calling someone a Nazi for this reason. You know what a Nazi is? You know what Nazis did to people? I hate it when people use this word so lightly, as if Nazis were just "overly correct", fun spoiling people.

You see, it´s easy for anyone to make oneself look very ignorant.