Holy hell… they are just soooo pretty… I can’t even… I just love the binary stars they look far more integrated and clear, and the moons! Love it.
There wouldn’t be any visible depth of field at that scale. It’s like photographing mountains from a distance, they would all be in focus.
So whats making that show feel off? Or is it just me.
Apologies in advance for the wall of text/pics
OK, I hate to be a pain with constant posting of more problems but I’ve just been re-watching the Space Battle of Endor a few times and I’ve come up with a wonderfully unrealistic wish list of fixes.
Scale/Perspective:
OK takes up the bulk of the issues with the battle but its also the least likely to be an easy fix. So there are shots with a bunch star destroyers where they are scaled differently yet look like they are the same distance from the camera. This is because they all filmed separately and composited together, but they didn’t add any depth of field to the shots. For instance the size of the SSD next to an ordinary SD:
Speed:
The same type of ship looking like it moves faster/is closer but to small when further way. This affect happens in a few shots in is do to a combination of problems on of which is that they don’t keep in mind that objects that are further away appear to move slower across the screen.
Shadows:
This is really fantasy and would likely take to long/be too hard but the shows are very inconsistent in the battle, with light sources coming from different direction or having different intensities, and in some shots Home-One in particular look like mat painting because the lighting makes them seem flat. Also ships that a close to one another would cast shows on other ships/fighters. I can imagine the seen seeming far more real if you had fighters casting shows on star destroyers as they zoomed past. But again I doubt this could happen.
Explosions:
Now I may be wrong but I think ady said he was doing something about explosions already but either way there are a couple of issues with them. One is that that they are all the same type of explosion regardless of how large or small they are meant to be. So a Star destroyer blows up and look the same as a Tie fighter blowing. The Star destroyer is larger and further away so it should be a slightly different colour and and larger chunks inside. Also the quality difference between ANH/ESB and ROTJ is bigger than ever in the explosion department. They’re all stock explosions here just C/P unlike the others. I mean in EBR you can see a pilot flying of of a cockpit and disintegration when a TIE hits an asteroid. But in ROTJ there is no chucks of anything in any explosion. So I guess if you can put some kind of dark bits in just flying out from the explosion it would look like the ship breaking apart. And while the explosion itself would be played at the same speed the chucks of ships further away would move slower than ones closer to the camera.
Colour:
The colour grading is not consistent between shots, for instant tie fighters often seem way more blue than in other films where as the SSD seems more yellow than in ESB. And then you have the mon-cal ships some of which look the grey/brown like they should, but Home-one looks blue or red tinted depending on the shot. And then we have the MF and rebel fighters that all change hue like its some kind of rave. But for some reason its not a consistent change to all ships in any one shot but each individual ship. Again this would take a long time to fix as I imagine (again little to no knowledge baking this up but) you would have to roto each ship out to recolour it, so it probably wont happen.
DSII: Oh Boy…
It suffers of all of these as well as feeling like a floating sticker (though apparent that’s fixable (understatement) with magic). But here we dive into the whole in the thing (seriously huge) where in sections it feels to light. Now I’m not asking for asteroid cave worm kind of dark here, but it doesn’t feel like they are going deep into the depths of a moon sized space station. So yeah if it were darker the deeper they go, maybe the falcon could put its lights on, then when they get to the core it would have that blue glow illuminating everything which would turn orange/red as the explosions followed them up. I feel like it would give tension and then awe as they navigate this dark tunnel network and reach the cavernous reactor room, which would turn to fear as they are pursued by a fiery wave of death.
Again this is a long shot of a wish list but hopefully some of these are agreeable and more importantly doable. Thanks for reading it it anyway. Unless you skipped to the last line in which case who does that.
Well the issue is the DS can’t rotate all the way around, as it has to be facing the rebel fleet to fire at it. But… (bare in mind I have no idea how you did the thing you did) …but surely you can have the direction of rotation in any direction? So what I wonder, is whether its possible to use it to simulate perspective for the shots, like where Home-One are doing crazy maneuvers while a camera is in them (like at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f38a6pYL_jE&t=115s).
Also when when I was re-watching this (again) i noticed that when the DS fires the second shot is flipped vertically: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f38a6pYL_jE&t=245s I assume because they didn’t want people to know ist the same shot reused but this just begs the question how the conceived by midichlorians did it to a 180 fire and another one 180 in like 3 seconds? The other thing is that we could (if we can?) have it do the whole subtle rotate thing, but to suggest it is doing to to aim the laser. So it could do that for the first few shots then when it is building up to the first shot we see it stop and start to rotate in another direction, just to build suspense before the emperor reveals it is a “fully operation battle station!” then that can be constantly changing as it picks the next target.
I tried turning a still of the Death Star into “3D” using a displacement map to make it look like it was turning slowly >and it seems like it could be pretty convincing.
OMG Ridley, you never cease to amaze me. That is exactly what I imagined (freaking space wizard)
never made any effort to turn Anakin back from the Darkside so the line doesn’t really make sense. But Padme did. Her >attempt to talk Anakin back on Mustafar was similar to Luke trying with Vader on Endor. I also like the idea of Vader >mentioning Padme when he’s talking to his son. I think it would add a little more weight to the conversation & when he’s >looking out over the forest.
Like I said-just a wish list.
Oh fair enough I don’t really watch the prequels enough these days, but yeah I guess that makes sense.
*The shield generator is on the Endor Moon, so on wide space shots add the planet Endor behind the moon. Maybe a damaged planet that’s cracked in half or has a chunk missing out of it?
That sounds like a good idea, but i believe endor is a gass giant so it would’t have a solid surface to be cracked
*A shot with Tie-Strikers patrolling Endor.
I don’t think ady will add anything not from the original trilogy (even though the striker was in Rogue one before you say)
*Fix the “looking back” head of the At-At.
I think thats already on his list
*Alter Vader’s line to say “Your Mother once thought as you do.”
why?
*Shots of rebel gunners in the Millennium Falcon.
i don’t think that could happen without making an entire new set for the gunner positions which i doubt would happen
*Make the area under the Emperor’s Throne less open and give Luke an actual place to hide.
I mean considering he is there for a few seconds and its pitch black before Vader finds him I think the pillar would be plenty of cover
Other than that i would agree with everything and as far female trooper, rebels and battlefront have already had “confirmed” there are women in the infantry so i don’t see why not. And in response to those that disagree, you could always rationalize that yes they are fascist and that’s why they don’t let them join the navy (with a few exceptions).
I came across this deepfake video today from Return of the Jedi. It adds Hayden as Vader on death star. Its not a perfect job, but the idea is there.
If anyone should be deepfaked into the role of unmasked Darth Vader, it should be David Prowse, not Hayden Christianson. for all those that were looking forward to it happening after that Documentary a few years ago, its something I’ve been working on myself oddly enough. Not far into it but its looking promising.
Here is a model of the second Death Star that I found on Amazon!
OMG I hate you, why would you show me that, they’re soooo nice. I want one now. Saying that they have done that weird thigh where people make the dark panel protrude and the lighter strips recesses, when it should be the reverse.
EDIT: OML I just looked on the also bought… The Tantive IV and Millennium falcon… Why have you done this to me 😦
Oh speaking of the DSII, Ady: I had always preferred the original DS even though the second “looks cooler” but, when ever I watch ROTJ it just doesn’t seem right. And I finally think I know why, its a 2D picture. I don’t how they managed to go from effects as stunning as those from ANH - which brought a giant space ball to life - to something as awful as what is in ROTJ but hey they did it. What puzzles me most, is that the DSII does actually have a physical model, but for some unfathomable reason they only shot if from one angle for the whole movie, and proceeded to just copy/paste it to every shot.
So idk whether you can do anything about this or if there a DSII models (3D or physical) out there or any or some other footage that can be composited to work but if you can, could you give it that same subtle spin that the DSI had and just in general fix some inconsistencies with the angles of it in relation to Endor and the fleets?
Hope the edits going well!
Would be good to see a couple Rebel Pilots discover why it is so important that Han gets that shield down.
That’s a good shout, could add some substance and weight to the sequence as well as reinforce how the Rebels have been taken of guard and are being put on the back foot with some losses right of the bat. Maybe with a double take that they have been flanked coming with some instant hits from the on coming Destroyers, maybe not taking out any ships completely but at least doing some damage. You know softening them up for the Emperor’s gleeful reveal that the DSII is fully operational.
Yeah the ending scene has never been a hug issue one way or another, mostly because neither its inclusion or exclusion has ever felt like it adds anything to the movie (except a big cliff hanger) but that cliff hanger works in both cuts.
Personally I found the scene felt misplaced from my first viewing in the cinema. I was actually preparing to leave when ray and Chewie were boarding the MF and everyone waving and was fully expecting the the iris to close on Leia and 3PO. I very taken a back when the movie continued for a more minutes. After that I started to settle in assuming the movie must not be anywhere close to finishing (it didn’t seem impossible that time had just flown by and there was still 15 maybe 20 minutes left to go), but then boom it ends abruptly.
But I also have grown accustomed to its presence so I can see how knowing it should be there might make its absence lead to the film feeling incomplete. But that’s just my opinions. Maybe you could do an Alternative cut if its not a bother (but if it is then again I should’t think it would ruin anyone’s experience one way or the other.
Ady has CG models he used in ESBR that can be reused for ANHRHD.
I didn’t realize that adywan added any CG TIEs to ESBR, just thought after he lost all his original assets from ANHR he might not have gotten around to making a new one, but yeah if he has models ready to go that’s good. But also if he ever needs to make any for other vehicles or terrain or even buildings, hopefully he can check should Meshroom.
Hey Adywan, you know you mentioned putting in new 3D tie into the background. Well I was wondering how you were going to do them, weather you had models already or weather you are going to film real ones or still need to make ones. Anyway what ever you do end up doing I thought I’d let you know about this new (free/opensource) software Meshroom. Its a 3D scan compositor and well I’ve been playing around with a for a few days and found it rather easy to learn.
While I was testing it I had the idea of trying to use an old Tie Fighter model I had to see if it would work, which you can see here: https://imgur.com/a/uirCFfQ
If you want to use my scans or want to know anything about using meshroom or anything let me know. This technology is amazing and there are too many things to mention, I can think to use it for.
[EDIT]Oh, forgot to mention, all you need to use to get a scan is a camera and just take loads of overlapping picture from all around the object and it’ll calculate the positions in 3D space. So cool
That good to hear. I can understand stresses of trying to balance loads personal projects and so I get when somethings need to be put on the back burner. Its both a curse and a luxury that usually leads to better results even if you may have to wait along time for them. But the best things in life are always the ones worth waiting for. You take your time, don’t let nags like me rush you and good luck with the other edits.
Ok so this thread has been dead for a few months now, I was just wondering if the project is progressing at all. Hope your doing ok!
I did try to explain on some of the comments on the facebook page that something is throwing off my regrade on the comparison shots that have a strong cyan tint in the blu-rays. Whether its something to do with how the site recompresses the video or what it was i don’t know. But the whites had a yellowish tint in places that is NOT on the files i’m working with.
Oh right my bad, I don’t use facebook tbh, so i had no idea that anything was posed there, but thanks for explaining it for me.
[Accident]
OK so yeah, this is what i mean:
Now, I think the shadows might be a bit to dark, but that might be a side effect of how they produced such a the HD image from old film reals. That aside if you look at Adywan’s colour grade you can see how the lights behind the emperor are a yellow white while the diffused light bouncing of the ship is tinted blue. I believe this is because they actually had blue-white lighting on set for this movie, rather than the yellower lights that most movie sets used back in the 70s.
So (correct me if I’m wrong) but this shows that the regrade might be slightly over done, as the lights should not have a yellow tint if they are producing a blue glow. Also the 4K83 is based directly off of original film copies so if there is any accurate grading out there, I would say it is the 4K83.
I hope this is helpful and seen as constructive criticism, and I feel like this can’t be said enough but good luck Ady and I hope you’re having fun.
I like the grading and no doubt it look like the original, just can’t help but feel that the stormtroopers now look too yellow now. I don’t suppose you would go for a middle ground between blue ST and yellow ones (too clarify im not suggesting green ones).
As far as the uniforms are concerned I’m with Adywan on this one. I don’t know much about the correct colour of Feldgrau but I do know how light reacts strangely with fabrics especially on film. coupled with the blue/cyan tint present in all the special edition blu-rays its understandable that the uniforms might not look as we remembered. I mean can anyone else remember how insane it was when everyone found out the Solo’s coat from ESBR was brown not blue?
If people still aren’t sure just look at rouge one, they based their suits off of those at the Lucas Film archives. Now while the movie does have a slight orange/blue filter applied to it, the set photos do not, and under studio lighting, they appear grey.
I think Adywan has got as close as anyone ever will to replicating the original look of the uniforms with the slightly brown/green grey (you can see that if you colour pic the pixels in PS).
OK, I feel like this has been suggested or might even have been one of Ady original points but, how about making the work on the DSII look more active. Like flickering blue-white lights like wielding and small specs hovering around working on the hull.
Oh, well darn, thought I had premonitions there. 😦
Vader vs Obi-Wan Reimagined-
DeJa Vu…
I swear this was a thing like last year, but its been popping up everywhere in my Youtube feed. Did I have some kind of force vision or something?
I think the TIE fighter bit from the opening sequence is just a matter of the perspective shifting, not an actual continuity error.
I agree, i also think that the hanger “extending into space” is down to an exaggerated angle of perspective. Form what i can tell the platform is raised and it looks like the hanger has two floors but at the same time there is no sign of this in the official cut away diagrams, either way i think ady will be making a miniature to replace the terrible mat painting behind lando and han so he may come across the solution when he does.