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StarWarsIsUs

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1-Feb-2006
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12-Sep-2006
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Post
#240224
Topic
What movies do you consider canon?
Time
We all have personal preferances. There is George-Canon, and then there is Fanon.

Something I have realized over these past few months, is that people also have personal favoritism (of course,) when it comes to canon. This may be considered a form of Kryptorevisionism... of which I won't go into detail because I think everyone gets the point.

What Star Wars films do YOU consider canon?


As for me:

"Star Wars" & "The Empire Strikes Back"


To me, anything coming after those movies (not chronologically; I mean anything made after that,) is simply Expanded Universe, and I dismiss it on an overall basis. Truly and honestly, I don't take episodes 6, 1, 2, or 3 very seriously at all.
Post
#176805
Topic
You are needed. A ROTJ remake - Do you want to help?
Time
Just about as bad as any other remake that has been proposed, produced, or released. Don't get me wrong, there's a few good ones, but the rule of thumb is REMAKE==BAD. I don't see why one would want to tempt fate and flout this rule unless one had a very good reason.

FIRST OFF. I am not George Lucas. Neither are you. It would be a fan-made "remake". I can't go sell this to millions of people and make it an official change to the canon. You're taking it far too literally, and far too painfully.

But ESB established that he survived the freezing process. There was never any question, hint, or suspicion that he would die after being encased in carbonite. Threepio's words were, IIRC, "He should be quite well preserved, if he survived the freezing process, that is." Lando confirmed that Han did, in fact, survive. So he shouldn't die in carbonite.

Established facts gets debunked all the time. Just because you survived a car crash doesn't mean you aren't going to die in the hospital at a later time. Just because the doctor says you will live, doesn't mean it's completely impossible for you to die the exact same evening. There was strong doubt in everyone at that time whether Han would live or not. And it made Leia's kiss to Han much more meaningful if he never got to see her again. In ROTJ, it is so cut-and-dry that it pretty much renders the sad ending of ESB assinine and pointless. There is no lasting effect of loss or slight darkness.

For what purpose? I could maybe see him dying* in order to set things right, karmically, for betraying his friend. There are interesting dramatic possibilities with Han waking up, still hating Lando, while everyone around him is in mourning for the heroic Baron-Administrator. But if you kill Lando -- after killing Han -- then you've turned the rescue operation into a big bloodbath that accomplishes nothing. You're left with Leia writing in her diary, "Well, my boyfriend's dead, and my new friend Lando is dead because we tried to save my boyfriend, not knowing he was dead, and I got repeatedly raped by a Hutt, but we did manage to kill lots of people today!"

* Of course, people who fall into the Pit of Carkoon are not really dead, they're in torment for a thousand years as they're slowly digested. This just puts them in a Schroedinger's Cat box, from which a future writer can retrieve them alive at any point, or decline to retrieve them and treat them as dead, viz. Boba Fett.


Just how much time would you want to waste in the movie by having Han and Lando fight over a strained friendship? by losing Han, we lose an anti-hero who became a hero. That is tragic. It is disturbing. It makes for a more lasting effect after the movie is done.

By the way: DID I SAY LANDO DIES RIGHT AWAY?!?!? No. Your argument about 'surviving sarlacc pits while you're slowely digested' is meaningless to this certain article I made. It's nitpicking and irrelevant. Those are the words that come to mind while reading your replies, my friend. "Nitpicking" and "irrelevant".

Why is there a human settlement on Endor? First of all, what do you mean by Endor?

The filmic Endor is a sanctuary world, inhabited by a primitive people. There is no commerce there, no communication, no interest whatsoever in the Endor system by the galactic community. That's why the Death Star II was built there. It was a secret military project, so they did it out in the middle of nowhere.

If you add Wookies, you make things a bit more complex. Wookies -- at least, every one in the trilogy up to this point -- are a spacefaring race. They travel the galaxy. It would be hard to keep a secret from the entire galaxy (modulo several Bothans and the Rebel Alliance) if your secret is being built in orbit of a member world of the galactic community.

We might be able to fix this by making the Wookies primitives (taller Ewoks), or making the entire Wookie system a forbidden zone like Soviet military towns. But adding in a human settlement throws another monkeywrench (Wookiespanner?) into the works. By this point, the Death Star might as well not be a secret project at all. And if it's not a secret, you can build it where it will be more plainly visible, say, in orbit of Coruscant (or Had Abaddon) where it will serve as a potent symbol for the Imperial Potentate.

I added Wookies. There are no Ewoks in this version. A primitive human settlement of a tiny size would most likely not be noticed by the Empire. Even on our planet it is not rare to find tiny settlements smack-dab in the middle of Nowhere Central. The village probably wouldn't know (or care) about the Death Star construction. Your comments really piss me off, dude. They really piss me off.

I'm a bit confused about the timeline. Lando and Chewie left with the Falcon just as Luke's recovery was ending, promising to contact Leia when they found Boba Fett. It must've taken them at least a day or two to get eyes on their target -- either in the official version or yours. Then maybe another day to communicate with the Rebel Alliance, locate Leia, and move to her position. I don't see the Senator from Alderaan, the Princess Leia Organa hanging around on a hospital ship waiting for the Falcon to get back. If nothing else, she would've felt bad that she was taking resources needed by injured comrades and moved to another ship (possibly Home One).

After finding the exact location of Jabba's hideout they came back to get Luke and Leia. Like they probably (we never know for sure) did in the real ROTJ movie. They needed sleep though. They waited until they got some sleep before all journeying back to Jabba's hideout. But Leia decided to leave early because she was desperate. By 'night' I obviously mean when they all were resting and sleeping.

We've already seen the following-the-Falcon-at-a-distance trick. And ANH pretty firmly established that no one follows the Falcon when her hyperdrive is working correctly. Not your local bulk cruisers, and not even the big Corellian ships.


Maybe they don't use full hyperdrive this time. Maybe it had an Imperial tracking device attached to it.

So I guess you're for removing the dialogue that establishes the Pit as a place of torture, not immediate death? If Jabba just wants to kill people, why doesn't he simply shoot them? That's not his style. Jabba wants to see people die, or know that they're somewhere uncomfortable marking month number two of a thousand year sentence. Pushing them down a hole isn't his style.


Here is another example of you nitpicking. Who's to say they didn't BREAK THEIR NECKS WHILE FALLING INTO THE PIT? NO ONE KNOWS WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENS TO THEM, JUST THAT THEY PROBABLY DO INDEED DIE.


Translator? All he can do is growl. Is he supposed to translate Wookie A to Wookie B? Maybe he could translate the archaic Old Church Wookie spoken by the Wookie Patriarch into Modern Standard Wookie. Of course, the only person left alive who can understand Chewie is C-3PO, given that Han is dead. And Threepio can translate well enough without Chewie; he is fluent in over six million forms of communication.

I mean, really, Chewie as a translator?


Here is an example so you can maybe understand. I sincerely hopes this helps you.

Leia: Tell them we want to make peace. Tell them we need their help.

Chewie: *turns to Wookies and growls stuff.*

I sincerely hope that helps you understand where I was coming from. -_-


Unless you have a string of sequels planned, introducing a new character as Luke's sister (and, I suppose, the Other that Yoda spoke of) is wrong in so many ways. Mainly because Leia as his sister was right in so many ways. It provided closure, healing (Luke lost a father but gained a sister), and new meaning to the two previous films. It elegantly resolved a love triangle by turning it into classic comedy at the very moment when such levity was appropriate, if not much-needed. I think, if you want to take all that away and call it an improvement, you need to justify it.



Please. Do not insult yourself. Do not insult me, either. You said "elegantly resolved a love triangle by turning it into classic comedy"...... Okay. There are many things wrong with what you said. If you were that much of an 'elegant' thinker, you would have been able to formulate the answers to your own questions; but instead, I have to answer them for you. There is nothing wrong with that... but... you get my meaning.

She can fly, too?

Wait, Ackbar can fly, too? With those big rubbery hands?


She is strong in the Force just as Luke was. Raised in a primitive village, the Force did not withold itself from Leena.

Luke didn't lose a father. His father was already long lost to evil. He gained him back by convincing him to be non-evil. And now his father's spirit can be with him forever.

Luke won a sister. AND a lover. That is the greatness behind my version. He got the girl he wanted from when he first saved her in Episode IV. He also found his sister. A win-win-win situation. Much like in the actual ROTJ... but unlike the actual ROTJ, my version still holds realistic to logic.

The logic that even though it is a happy ending... there is also a strain of sadness. In knowing a good friend was lost. Han Solo died like a man. He took it like a man. And just by knowing that fact at the end of my version of ROTJ, I'm sure it will give everyone a more emotional and triumphant feel. A more realistic feel... that not everything is perfect, yet so many things really are.


Post
#175780
Topic
You are needed. A ROTJ remake - Do you want to help?
Time
What is this? You just all freaked out.


This thread is for those who think that Return of the Jedi was half-assed and rushed through. Some people only like "Star Wars" and "Star Wars: ESB" because they told a strong story.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to come in and piss all over this thread. I wanted to gather like-minded people who wanted to see about perhaps making a different version of Episode VI.

Some think that ROTJ was when Lucas' began getting too full of himself. And he did a half-assed job, unlike the first two.
Post
#175602
Topic
You are needed. A ROTJ remake - Do you want to help?
Time

Made the following story sketch a while back ago in early May of last year. It is from an idea that came to me; does anyone want to help with this? It would be greatly appreciated, as you have undoubtedly guessed it would be. I need all the help I can get. Please prove to me that my trust can go to the people on this forum. You are all good, moral people, as can easily be seen by the general threads/postings on this forum. Thought I would bring this project here, in order to present it to all of you. You are all undoubtedly worthy.

How does a remake of Return of the Jedi sound? Is anyone interested in hearing about the plan? Mainly, it is an idea that if we take certain scenes from Return of the Jedi, and mesh them together with remakes of the plot, we can all really get pretty far in making Star Wars the way we want it. The following story sketch outlines the main points in the new plot:

SWIU Version of
REVENGE OF THE JEDI

http://www.leiasmetalbikini.com/topps3.jpg

Here are the basic alternations I have made to ROTJ:

-Han dies in the carbonite.

-Lando is dragged into the Sarlacc pit.

-Luke and Leia begin their relationship together.

-Wookies on Endor, with Chewy as the peacemaker, help the Rebel Alliance.

-Leena, Luke’s sister, is found on Endor, on a human settlement.

-Yoda did not die in ROTJ. He lived long enough afterwards, even to train Luke’s children in the ways of the Jedi.

Now, here are some things that are of an ‘Expanded Universe’. I will add on to them if I get enough replies to this thread.

-Leia sneaks away at night, while Luke is sleeping. She boards the Millenium Falcon, on the Rebel ship that was seen at the end of ESB (forgot name), and takes Lando and Chewy with her, who were taking room in the Falcon.

-They agree to try to save Han Solo, from Jabba, on the planet Geonosh. There, he has a hidden hideout that few know of. Lando knows of the hideout.

-Imperial ships follow the Falcon from a great distance. Leia, Lando, Chewy break into the hideout. There is a small battle. Leia quickly goes and unmelts Han, and finds out that he died while frozen. Jabba’s henchman capture them, locking Lando and Chewy in the dungeons below the hideout. Leia is left to be the slave of Jabba.

-Luke sees these images in a dream, and gets aboard his X-Wing. The Imperial ships track him down, and follow him to the hideout. When he gets there, Lando and Chewy are about to be thrown into the Sarlacc pit, and Leia is chained to Jabba.

-Imperial Stormtroopers come. There is a large battle. During the battle, Lando falls into pit, tries to get back out, but a tentacle grabs him and drags him down, where he undoubtedly dies.

-During the fight, Leia chokes Jabba with the chain tide to her.

-Luke, Leia, Chewy, escape barely.


-They go the a Rebel spaceship, and attend the meeting on the new plans to destroy the Death Star.
-That night, Luke and Leia begin a relationship.


-They travel to Endor, etc. Epic (and classic) speeder battle in the forests of the moon.

  • They meet up with Wookies, and Chewy serves as a translator of sorts, and gets them to join.

-Luke feels the force drawing him towards a nearby village of humans.

-Finds Leena, and tells her of who she truly is, after hearing the voice of Obi-Wan telling him that he is right indeed, and that she is his sister.


-Battle of Endor.

-Luke goes to Death Star, etc.

-Leena, Chewy, and Ackbar lead X-Wings against Death Star, and destroy it.


Ending: Large celebration in Leena’s village, and Wookies are present. Luke, Leia, Leena, Chewy, 3PO, and Artoo, are grouped together, watching the celebration.


NOTE: Everything I didn’t explain in further detail, followed closely enough to the normal ROTJ (Return of the Jedi), that it was unnecessary to ramble on. I wanted to give a general idea about the major differences. I will be adding more things, and putting new twists in.


http://fanart.theforce.net/museum/images/Classic_Trilogy/tn_jabba.jpg

If best comes to best, or otherwise, we could always simply make a novel-sized story with images to support the theme. Mainly, we want to redo Return of the Jedi to better accomodate logic. The movie of ROTJ was half-assed… we want to go back and complete it, if not redo it as you have seen an example of in the above article.

So what do you friends think?