Sremrofsnart

Spartacus01 said:

Sremrofsnart said:

I can understand many of your points very well, and yes, I also admit that I might be a bit too critical of Andor in some aspects. But for me personally, it unfortunately crossed a few lines that simply weren’t crossed before (keyword: attempted rape of Bix). I absolutely don’t deny that such themes exist in Star Wars and have always been there (Leia and Jabba, for example), but for me it was simply too much in terms of tone and especially the explicitness of the scene, which was extremely brutal by Star Wars standards. Unfortunately, you could really tell that this was deliberately incorporated into Bix’s story because apparently she hadn’t suffered enough yet, and with Season 2 they clearly wanted to consciously test all the boundaries they had – and that’s exactly what didn’t sit well with me, at least.

I get why that scene might cross a line for you, but it honestly doesn’t bother me that much. At the end of the day, it’s just one scene, and it’s not like there have never been dark moments in live-action Star Wars prior to Andor. I mean, in Revenge of the Sith there’s a scene where the corpses of the younglings Anakin killed are clearly visible. Sure, you don’t see Anakin actually killing them, but you do see him about to do it, and the next time we’re in the Temple, the kids are lying there on the floor. At the time, this was unthinkable because Star Wars had never been that dark before, and many fans criticized it for going too far. Yet now the scene exists and most fans have come to accept it. So again, I totally understand why some people think this scene crosses a line, but to me it’s really not a big deal. It’s just one scene, and it’s not like there have never been dark moments in live-action Star Wars before.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned here is that I think it’s also a problem that a dark series like Andor appeared right in the middle of many non-dark Disney products and series, and I think that’s why it feels so out of place, at least for me. It feels like a 180-degree turn – first you have shows like Skeleton Crew which was simply made for a younger audience, and then BAM, you have Andor which is clearly intended for an older audience. They’ve clearly lost their course regarding tonality. If Star Wars had been taken more seriously by Disney from the beginning, and if Disney hadn’t maneuvered the franchise too much into the younger target demographic with all their merch and series – then Andor would have landed much better tonally. And that’s actually the tragic thing about it, because Andor is actually a very good series, and yes, I can absolutely understand why the series is so popular – because it finally shows Star Wars seriously again, away from all the fanservice etc. But you simply have to note that Andor unfortunately appeared a bit too late, because now we have a completely confusing mess of Star Wars products, and even though there were already clear differences in the old EU – there’s still a big difference between whether you do this in book or comic form or in live-action series form.

I get why that could feel out of place for someone who watched all the series as they were released. But for me personally, it’s not really an issue, for a couple of reasons. First, by the time the second season of Andor came out, I had already stopped keeping up with all the other Star Wars series. Kenobi had disappointed me so much that as soon as I finished it, I decided I wasn’t going to watch any more Star Wars series or movies unless they were genuinely something new we hadn’t seen before, or unless I was actually interested in them. So when Season 2 of Andor dropped, I hadn’t seen The Mandalorian Season 3, Tales of the Jedi, Tales of the Empire, Skeleton Crew, or the Ahsoka series. The only thing I had been keeping up with since Kenobi was Andor itself, so the tonal shift you mentioned didn’t affect me at all. Second, even if I had been following everything, I’m the kind of person who can compartmentalize each series and product and enjoy them on their own, so I don’t let what I’ve seen before or after in other series influence how I experience each one.

That’s a really fair point, and honestly, I think we’re closer in our views than it might seem. You’ve essentially curated your own Star Wars experience by skipping the shows that didn’t interest you - and that’s completely understandable. If I had only watched Andor in isolation, without the context of Skeleton Crew, Mando Season 3, etc., I might feel differently about the tonal shift too.

But here’s the thing: most casual fans - especially families - don’t curate like that. They watch what’s on Disney+, and for them, going from Skeleton Crew to Andor Season 2 is jarring. Kids might stumble into it. That’s why I think Disney needs clearer content labels and an Adult Star Wars brand.

I respect your ability to compartmentalize each series. For me, though, the Bix scene still crosses a line - not because of the other shows, but because of what I think defines Star Wars as a genre. Even in isolation, sexual violence feels like a different genre to me than what Lucas created.

But I appreciate your perspective. It sounds like you’re being thoughtful about what you engage with, and honestly, that’s probably the healthiest and best approach to Disney Star Wars right now.

In the end, I just have the feeling that Star Wars nowadays is drifting more and more away from its source material and is slowly being shifted into something that has little to do anymore with Star Wars as we knew it. All of the mass-produced shows we got in the last decade - for me personally, that’s just too much. Disney needs to slow things down to keep the essence of Star Wars, in my opinion.

Today it’s difficult to keep up with everything Star Wars, and to be honest, most of the shows weren’t for me either because they lived off pure fanservice and, as you said, no new things.

Everything is a rehash of things we already know, and yes, I absolutely agree here that Andor - even if it’s a completely tone-shifted show - is actually the best Star Wars we got from Disney in the form of a TV show. And that alone is telling.

Thank you so much for your thoughts and opinions, always great to get in touch with People who still can discuss like it was used to be before Social media:)

Hi,

i was suprised to come across this Video here from a Live Recording of George Lucas’ Super Live Adventure in Japan 1993. Always thought that this Special where only dubbed in Japanese…but here it is in Englisch:

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7_crGUw5U

Best regards

Sremrofsnart

Spartacus01 said:

Sremrofsnart said:

The answer is very clear in my eyes… It’s not HIS Star Wars anymore, not his vision, not the franchise he wanted it to be… To put it somewhat bluntly here: In my view, with Andor, Star Wars has now officially lost everything that once made it so great and DIFFERENT from other franchises. Star Wars was never intended to be that gritty, dark, and realistic – in fact, Star Wars was always meant to be a space opera fairy tale that EVERYONE could enjoy. And that’s absolutely nowhere to be seen anymore in anything Disney Star Wars produces.

Why do I address Andor so fiercely here? The point is that the other stuff on Disney+ consists of Star Wars shows that were mainly in my eyes bad fan service and all used the same nostalgia-bait tactics instead of giving us something truly new (like the Prequels back in the day – they weren’t perfect, but they were something completely NEW to the franchise). But through all the instrumentalization of the shows and the deliberate merchandising product placement (Baby Yoda/Grogu… now we have everything with Grogu), all these shows NEVER crossed a certain line – and those lines were absolutely broken with Andor. In my opinion, Andor is NOT Star Wars… not in the slightest way George Lucas wanted it to be (yes, I know that some early concepts of The Star Wars were also darker, but there was a REASON why George changed it into the movie that started it all).

I respectfully disagree. Maybe it’s because I’ve always loved the old Expanded Universe, which could get pretty gritty, realistic, and dark when it wanted to. But honestly, I’ve never bought into the idea that Star Wars needs to stick to one specific tone or genre, or that every new project has to imitate George Lucas in style or mood. To me, that completely misses the point.

Star Wars is huge. We’re talking about a galaxy with billions of worlds, millions of species, and basically infinite scenarios. The whole appeal is that it can go in a thousand different directions. If every story felt exactly the same, the franchise would be incredibly boring. That’s why the old EU was so great. You had stories that tried to echo Lucas’s writing style and tone, stories that leaned hard into realism and grit, stories that lived somewhere in the middle, and even stories that barely felt like they belonged to Star Wars at all. That variety made the universe feel alive.

The problem with Disney Star Wars isn’t that the authors aren’t able to match Lucas’s writing style, it’s that they often don’t know how to craft solid stories in the first place. When they want to, they can. We saw it with Rogue One, with Andor, and with some of the books and comics. There are releases that are genuinely well written, but they’re the exception instead of the rule. And to me, that’s the real problem.

I can understand many of your points very well, and yes, I also admit that I might be a bit too critical of Andor in some aspects. But for me personally, it unfortunately crossed a few lines that simply weren’t crossed before (keyword: attempted rape of Bix). I absolutely don’t deny that such themes exist in Star Wars and have always been there (Leia and Jabba, for example), but for me it was simply too much in terms of tone and especially the explicitness of the scene, which was extremely brutal by Star Wars standards. Unfortunately, you could really tell that this was deliberately incorporated into Bix’s story because apparently she hadn’t suffered enough yet, and with Season 2 they clearly wanted to consciously test all the boundaries they had – and that’s exactly what didn’t sit well with me, at least.

I want to mention that I deliberately chose the Bix example from Andor because the problem can be most clearly identified there. Yes, the series also had other dark references and scenes, but the Bix scene simply went way too far for me personally. This type of violence portrayed in such an explicit form is simply not compatible with official Star Wars products for me – because where does it start and where does it end with having to show realism like this? If we say “the galaxy is huge, everything fits,” then where do we draw the line? Could we also show explicit torture scenes, graphic executions, or even worse in the name of “realism”? For me, there must be certain boundaries that define what Star Wars is and what it isn’t, regardless of how well written or how “realistic” something might be.

I want to clarify something here: I’m not saying that Star Wars must always imitate Lucas or stick to one specific tone. The EU absolutely proved that variety can work wonderfully. But I think there’s a fundamental difference between “variety in tone” and “crossing certain genre boundaries that define what Star Wars is”. Yes, the galaxy is huge and can tell countless different stories – but that doesn’t mean that literally everything fits into Star Wars. Even the darkest EU books didn’t show explicit sexual violence, especially not in a visual medium that reaches all audiences. It’s not about everything having to be the same or too similar – it’s about what fundamentally defines Star Wars as a genre and as a franchise. And for me, a well-written rape scene is still not Star Wars, no matter how “gritty” or “realistic” we want the universe to be. There are simply certain lines that, when crossed, make it feel like we’re no longer in Star Wars but in a completely different genre.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned here is that I think it’s also a problem that a dark series like Andor appeared right in the middle of many non-dark Disney products and series, and I think that’s why it feels so out of place, at least for me. It feels like a 180-degree turn – first you have shows like Skeleton Crew which was simply made for a younger audience, and then BAM, you have Andor which is clearly intended for an older audience. They’ve clearly lost their course regarding tonality. If Star Wars had been taken more seriously by Disney from the beginning, and if Disney hadn’t maneuvered the franchise too much into the younger target demographic with all their merch and series – then Andor would have landed much better tonally. And that’s actually the tragic thing about it, because Andor is actually a very good series, and yes, I can absolutely understand why the series is so popular – because it finally shows Star Wars seriously again, away from all the fanservice etc. But you simply have to note that Andor unfortunately appeared a bit too late, because now we have a completely confusing mess of Star Wars products, and even though there were already clear differences in the old EU – there’s still a big difference between whether you do this in book or comic form or in live-action series form.

I absolutely agree with you that the EU also had many very dark books and storylines, and this also contributed positively to Star Wars’ development because not everything felt the same – and yes, you’re also right that if we always stayed 1:1 true to the original, it would quickly become boring. Of course, it’s part of Star Wars that it grows with time and also had many new things and expansions in the EU, and yes, it’s completely normal that the tone changes and evolves with that. My actual main criticism of Andor is simply that this total tone shift just feels like a 180-degree reversal, and the problem was that Star Wars didn’t have the time to approach this darker tone of the series – yes, there were books and novels that were marked as adult, but still, books are simply not a series – they simply have a different audience than Andor does.

I think that’s exactly why the series, despite its good and really excellent craftsmanship, is still so controversial, because some themes were simply (still) too explicit and above all too sudden. In my eyes, Star Wars and generally such a large franchise simply needs time to orient itself to such things, for example with an Adult label for Star Wars. Otherwise, it simply feels too much like a complete genre change – after countless fanservice shows and films that were basically intended for every audience, a new show suddenly comes out of nowhere that is then explicitly aimed at adults – certain problems are simply preprogrammed there, and I think Disney should have solved this differently and above all more slowly.

That Star Wars should and must develop somewhere is completely clear and also desired… you just have to be careful not to make the mistake of changing the franchise into something so drastically that it’s almost no longer recognizable. And I think that’s exactly the risk we’re currently facing – that in the attempt to make Star Wars “more mature” or “more realistic,” we lose sight of what actually made Star Wars so special and different from other franchises in the first place.

But thank you for posting your opinion, it’s always interesting how differently such things are perceived, and through some opinions you also come to your own rethinking 😊

This is a question George Lucas indirectly answered himself with this statement recently:

“Disney took it over and they gave it their vision. That’s what happens,” he replied. “Of course I’ve moved past it. I mean, I’ve got a life. I’m building a museum. A museum is harder than making movies.”

And I think every fan should let that sink in… Is this the way you would speak about your LIFE’S WORK and baby if you were happy about it? Is this the way you would speak if you were proud of the legacy of your baby? The hard truth is NO, you definitely would not. I think the fact that George Lucas has moved on from modern Disney Star Wars is perhaps the biggest and clearest statement we could get… What’s more telling than not caring at all anymore? Also, the fact that George Lucas has never spoken about how “great” any new Star Wars project from Disney was – not even Andor, which is supposedly the “best” Star Wars show out there… If that’s really the case, why didn’t George say anything about it?

The answer is very clear in my eyes… It’s not HIS Star Wars anymore, not his vision, not the franchise he wanted it to be… To put it somewhat bluntly here: In my view, with Andor, Star Wars has now officially lost everything that once made it so great and DIFFERENT from other franchises. Star Wars was never intended to be that gritty, dark, and realistic – in fact, Star Wars was always meant to be a space opera fairy tale that EVERYONE could enjoy. And that’s absolutely nowhere to be seen anymore in anything Disney Star Wars produces.

Why do I address Andor so fiercely here? The point is that the other stuff on Disney+ consists of Star Wars shows that were mainly in my eyes bad fan service and all used the same nostalgia-bait tactics instead of giving us something truly new (like the Prequels back in the day – they weren’t perfect, but they were something completely NEW to the franchise). But through all the instrumentalization of the shows and the deliberate merchandising product placement (Baby Yoda/Grogu… now we have everything with Grogu), all these shows NEVER crossed a certain line – and those lines were absolutely broken with Andor. In my opinion, Andor is NOT Star Wars… not in the slightest way George Lucas wanted it to be (yes, I know that some early concepts of The Star Wars were also darker, but there was a REASON why George changed it into the movie that started it all).

My biggest problem with modern Star Wars products is that they wanted to keep ALL audiences engaged with Star Wars – even those people who didn’t care about Star Wars back in the day, and it shows… We now have “Star Wars” shows on Disney+ that fit into every genre for every target audience and are very modern in their approach – but the high price is that these products have lost their timeless tone because of all the modern writing. Star Wars was also a huge success because it was TIMELESS and not some '80s product that addressed the social topics of that specific era.
Another big problem I see is how social media has influenced Star Wars since 2015… We get movies and shows on demand, and many of them are quite forgettable, and we get content after content in book form, in media form, etc. Just the fact that when I look at Wookieepedia, the amount of books, reprints, and just marketing garbage that comes out in less than a few months is so telling for the social media generation that wants everything fast and in masses. Quantity over quality is the right phrase for this. Then some people on social media rant about certain things from the movies – because they were too problematic in their eyes, so now it’s changed and even censored – Leia’s bikini, Boba Fett’s starship name. This means completely changing the source material, and this is also the first warning signal: Because if they could and did change this, who’s to say they won’t change Vader or anything else in the future if it’s now considered problematic to show Vader because he was too evil? Who would stop them?

The last point is how the modern social media influence of fans impacts the fandom itself, because if you look on Reddit or any other social media platform where people are talking about Star Wars… It’s not a fan debate anymore, it’s just a culture war over things like what is canon and what’s not, and if you criticize anything from the Disney canon or just question certain creative decisions… You will be outright harassed and hated beyond all morality. People see that you have a different opinion, and even if you have some plausible points, they will attack you regardless of whether you were right or not.

If Disney has shown us anything, it’s how a franchise can slowly die more and more and remove itself further and further from its true essence – so what’s the legacy of Disney Star Wars? Countless merchandise items, countless content that no one can keep track of anymore, and a fandom that is now more split and toxic than ever before (and yes, I know about the things with Jar Jar Binks and the Prequel haters from back in the day), but social media here is on a whole different level.

“And yeah, I’m very frustrated with the state Star Wars is in today, and maybe I’ve seen some things worse as than they really are, but I was once excited about something new from Star Wars and nowadays… I feel just nothing anymore.”

Hi,

The release is from Spain and recorded inside an empty Movie Theater in 1983 (sadly it has no audience reactions in it) I can send you a link with a compressed version of the file. For the original one I would like to get in touch with the people you mentioned (if that’s possible) I’m a collector of old theater-recorded versions and I’m happy to put my find to the other versions that have been found.

here are also some shots for the titles:

[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1la3oa_TSdwyDOeWpvBldfpwsax_vQepz/view?usp=sharing]

[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xuYa3x355ftFiSNCxfYgF5uiAox_8Uvo/view?usp=sharing]

Hello dear Community,

I got my hands on a Spanish Bootleg Videocassette of Return of the Jedi. It’s Cam Source with TS Audio as well as a different Video Source as shown here on the Theater Performance Preservations.

The Movie is in quite good shape (according to a 40th-year-old bootleg)

I digitized the Tape on a Phillips VCR1000 PAL Version alongside a Sony DVD Recorder and then transferred the raw mpg. file (12.47 GB) onto my PC.

I’m a collector of old Theater Rips and this was quite a BIG found in my collection:)

[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FMcaZQ9D8Cx6p_GV2yZWwsFE6ACm9N6_/view?usp=sharing]

[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qXXScZdMRtma5QZ79mb1yt47BlpjFvgr/view?usp=sharing]

[https://drive.google.com/file/d/172uvGhMWm4EvdEyqFW37BqBosCPHt5UU/view?usp=sharing]

[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dhi_wuZilzherPGTVJrbO507HtngSFcQ/view?usp=sharing]

Here are some Screenshots of the Movie itself:

[https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1SZcIcTaB9vpLwmGhCVVRJaMJG0bBM3jD?usp=sharing]

Hi,

some days ago I came across those suspicious-looking bootleg Videocassettes of all three Star Wars Movies from a Spanish auction site and those tapes were from a video store in Spain bc these are all from the same seller.

My question is now does anyone here remember these tapes or know if it could be possible that on these tapes are theater-recorded versions of the movies?

https://www.todocoleccion.net/cine-peliculas-beta/la-guerra-galaxias-beta-original-edicion-arcaica-reliquia-star-wars~x209298640

https://www.todocoleccion.net/cine-peliculas-vhs/el-retorno-jedi-vhs-original-edicion-arcaica~x209300703

https://www.todocoleccion.net/cine-peliculas-vhs/el-retorno-jedi-vhs-original-edicion-arcaica~x209300710

https://www.todocoleccion.net/cine-peliculas-beta/el-imperio-contraataca-beta-original-edicion-arcaica-reliquia-star-wars~x209298665

https://www.todocoleccion.net/cine-peliculas-beta/el-retorno-jedi-beta-original-edicion-arcaica-reliquia-star-wars~x209298685

https://www.todocoleccion.net/cine-peliculas-beta/el-retorno-jedi-beta-original-edicion-arcaica-reliquia-star-wars~x209300377

alexp120 said:

Sremrofsnart said:

I genuinely hope that the ESB Tape still exists, such recordings are movie history!!!

Not from ‘Protocol Droid’, but there is a feature-length audio recording of the limited-edition screening from ESB that was taken during the 1st four weeks of the film’s release. The audio features alternate lines and sound-FX.

You can read the details, here.
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Hopefully-the-last-70mm-vs-35mm-ESB-audio-differences-thread/id/14128/page/1

You can download the individual audio files of that screening from the uploader’s blog:
http://wideanglecloseup.com/starwarsaudio.html

Here’s a fan-made video-sample of that recording.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbl8tLOfFE

Thank’s so much for the links, I already had the files but it is still nice to read how many differences the as well as the cuts that were made in later versions of the Audio.

The one thing I want is to get an Audio Recording of ESB and ROTJ with many Audience Reactions throughout the movies. I love that feeling of the thought that you would actually sit in the theater with all the fans from back in the day.

alexp120 said:

Sremrofsnart said:
The Scofield Audio Recording is an priceless Jewel in my Collection and i already tried to sync it up with the Treadwell Cam Video source, its so cool to hear the laughter and mumbling of the Audience. One thing i wonder is if “ProtocolDroid” ever released the Scofield Audio Recording of Empire Strikes Back? I’m curious bc he said that his mother also did an recording there.

I don’t think ‘Protocol Droid’ released that recording. He had been absent from this forum for almost a decade and as of this past summer, he had returned. According to his profile, he checked-in to this forum, yesterday.

Maybe someone here who knows “ProtocolDroid” well enough…would it be possible to ask him if he wants to release the Scofield ESB Cam Audio as well? I already tried to contact him through pm but he hasn’t responded yet.

I genuinely hope that the ESB Tape still exists, such recordings are movie history!!!

Thank you very much, this was helpfull for me. The Scofield Audio Recording is an priceless Jewel in my Collection and i already tried to sync it up with the Treadwell Cam Video source, its so cool to hear the laughter and mumbling of the Audience. One thing i wonder is if “ProtocolDroid” ever released the Scofield Audio Recording of Empire Strikes Back? I’m curious bc he said that his mother also did an recording there.

I also will try to contact William Forsche on FB the next days, it would be an huge thing if he would give us his Audio Recording of A New Hope.

none said:

Tape Recording of Star Wars In The Theater From 1977 With My Mother by William Forsche

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBafn2t5v4

Hi, I’m a big fan of movies recorded in theaters where you can still hear the audience sounds and was wondering if anyone here has information on whether a complete recording of the video linked above might exist? Has anyone been able to contact the uploader?

It would mean a lot to me if you could somehow find out or someone here had/has contact with the person.

I need the audio for a project of mine.

Hi everyone,

I’m a passionate “Theater-Recorded” Movie collector who would love to watch the Original Trilogy as a low-quality cam theater recording, with the original crowd noises. The First three SW Movies have had a big impact on my life as well as my father’s and grandparents too (he was back in the day with his dad in A New Hope and it was one of his first movies ever) I’m also a very nostalgic person who loves to experience Movie history trough watching old Movies with crowd reactions in it, it gives me the ultimate feeling to be there and to experience the moment what is not just movie history today.

I hope that someone could help me out with a Project of mine that I’m working on. I have the goal to release a Cam copy of A New Hope with both Audio and Video from a 1977 theatrical screening. I already have the Video source (TWC326 - Star Wars Pre-ANH Mono-mix Bootleg) and now I need a great audio recording with some nice crowd Reaction in it to complete my Theater version of it.

I recently stumbled over this youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxBafn2t5v4&t=0s

Now my Question is, is there anyone here who knows if the uploader William Forsche did have the crowd audio of the entire movie? I would genuinely be happy if someone can give Info about it or if it exists a way to contact this person.

This would mean a lot to me:)

May the Force be with you

Lukas

Hi, an fun fact about the Wedding Ending is the Comic Spoof of RotJ from the Mad Magazine back in Jan. 84 form the cartoonist Mort Drucker. In this spoof you actually see the Wedding of Leia and Han at the last panel of the comic.

I had always wondered if thoose cartoonists might got some screenplays or scripts of the oriignal movies where they are about to be spoofed.

Hi everyone,

Does everyone know if it exits the whole Empire Strikes Back as a Cam Copy? I saw an intro on youtube from this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k-hH_E3FDo

well, and now i have a Question to the Empire Strikes Back Cam Copy does anyone still have the whole movie? If would be any possible that he could give me the Movie? well i know that is something very rare and very Special but I Dreamed for Years to Have an Cam Copy of The Empire Strikes Back:)
Hope anyone of you can do something:)

Greetings

Lucas