Ryan

DrDre said:

Ryan said:

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

Snoke somehow forgets to read her mind to get the information he’s been seeking for years. It just doesn’t make sense. There’s no denying it.

However, let’s not pretend these same contrivances exist in the OT, because they don’t. You want to point to a similar contrivance in the OT, please give it your best shot.

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for.

Except the OT never implies a Force user can read a non-Force user’s mind. They are able to influence the weak minded, but Vader still needs a droid when he interrogates Leia aboard the Death Star. As I stated before, it’s a two way street. Luke and Vader are both Force users, Leia and Antilles are not. The only times we see Force users sense another person or their thoughts, it’s with another Force user.

The first time we see a Force user read a non-Force user’s mind is in TFA. You cannot retro-actively apply ST logic to the OT, and claim it is contrived.

Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

You really can’t stop yourself can you. When you read something you don’t agree with, rather then write a coherent argument, you start insulting people. How sad…

Yes! When watching the OT, I never thought of Vader being able to read other’s minds like what we are getting with this new Disney stuff.

I looked at it like Vader and Luke having a telepathic phone call. And so people saying that Vader “read” Luke’s mind to find out Leia was Luke’s twin-sister. I don’t believe that. I look at it like Vader and Luke having a telepathic phone call, and Vader can “sense” that Luke is hiding something. And Vader keeps prodding Luke to reveal his secrets, and then Luke “accidentally” tells Vader telepathically that Leia is his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her.

I mean it’s pretty clear with Vader saying something like “Your feelings have betrayed you”. But I always took from that scene that Vader prodded and got Luke to reveal to him that Leia was his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her from Vader and the Emperor.

Exactly, I completely agree.

The new ST powers retroactively open the door to numerous issues in the OT, that were never there before. However, even if we disregard the OT, and just apply ST logic, TLJ doesn’t explain why Snoke doesn’t read Rey’s mind the moment he links her to Kylo, like he does later in the film, and in stead gambles on the far more complex scenario of having her come to him to ask her where Luke is. Even when she’s right in front of him, he demands she tell him Skywalker’s location, when just moments before he extracted precise information about Luke’s state of mind with zero effort. Should be no trouble for him to get the name of the planet/system where Luke resides without asking.

I think what you are talking about is the Star Wars universe has “rules”. And that the new trilogy came up with new “rules” than what the OT put into play.

But that even with this new trilogy having new “rules”, they don’t consistently follow those rules in these new movies.

I do agree with that. When a universe comes up with “rules”, then they need to stick with those rules in the future and be consistent. I don’t like this new trilogy having different “rules” than what was in the OT. Sure, they could expand on those OT rules, but they shouldn’t make it seem like the OT rules no longer apply to them.

Matt.F said:

Ryan, sure he does. He reads Luke’s about having a sister. He also does a ‘long distance’ - I cant believe im rising to the bait - telepathic convo with Luke in the deleted opening to ROTJ. Im sure pedantic boy will have some reason why those moments are invalidated.

He didn’t like the movie and wants everyone to know of his displeasure. I’ve seen the type many times.

There’s a difference between Vader “reading” say Luke’s mind. And Luke and Vader having a telepathic “phone call”. Like in Jedi, think of it like Vader and Luke having a telepathic “phone call”, and Vader can “sense” that Luke is hiding something. And so Vader prods Luke into “accidentally” revealing to him that Leia is his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her.

I mean it’s pretty clear with Vader saying something like “Your feelings have betrayed you”. But I always took from that scene that Vader prodded and got Luke to reveal to him that Leia was his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her from Vader and the Emperor. Then Luke was pissed at himself for revealing it and also about Vader wanting to turn her, and then Luke loses it and with anger of “betraying leia”, he beat the hell out of Vader.

Vader didn’t read Luke’s mind, but Luke accidentally or gave in to Vader and betrayed leia by revealing that she was his twin-sister.

I think the movie speaks for itself as to which is right. But which sounds better to you? I like that Luke revealed it to Vader vs. Vader reading Luke’s mind.

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

Snoke somehow forgets to read her mind to get the information he’s been seeking for years. It just doesn’t make sense. There’s no denying it.

However, let’s not pretend these same contrivances exist in the OT, because they don’t. You want to point to a similar contrivance in the OT, please give it your best shot.

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for.

Except the OT never implies a Force user can read a non-Force user’s mind. They are able to influence the weak minded, but Vader still needs a droid when he interrogates Leia aboard the Death Star. As I stated before, it’s a two way street. Luke and Vader are both Force users, Leia and Antilles are not. The only times we see Force users sense another person or their thoughts, it’s with another Force user.

The first time we see a Force user read a non-Force user’s mind is in TFA. You cannot retro-actively apply ST logic to the OT, and claim it is contrived.

Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

You really can’t stop yourself can you. When you read something you don’t agree with, rather then write a coherent argument, you start insulting people. How sad…

Yes! When watching the OT, I never thought of Vader being able to read other’s minds like what we are getting with this new Disney stuff.

I looked at it like Vader and Luke having a telepathic phone call. And so people saying that Vader “read” Luke’s mind to find out Leia was Luke’s twin-sister. I don’t believe that. I look at it like Vader and Luke having a telepathic phone call, and Vader can “sense” that Luke is hiding something. And Vader keeps prodding Luke to reveal his secrets, and then Luke “accidentally” tells Vader telepathically that Leia is his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her.

I mean it’s pretty clear with Vader saying something like “Your feelings have betrayed you”. But I always took from that scene that Vader prodded and got Luke to reveal to him that Leia was his twin-sister and that Obi-Wan had been hiding her from Vader and the Emperor.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Ryan said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

This whole forum exists because people weren’t happy about the special editions and the general retconning of Star Wars. I joined in 2005 and pretty sure it was around a good while before that.

I don’t doubt that. As I too hated the prequels back in 2005 and before that. So I’m sure there were a lot of others like that as well. I’m just reporting on what I personally experienced at that time. There are a lot of youtube channels right now and even back in 2010 where they talk about originally loving the prequels, but now realizing they were garbage.

Back at around 2005, I wasn’t on “Star Wars” message boards. But just regular message boards where people would sometimes talk about Star Wars and how they loved the new ones. And everyone I knew in person at the time, loved the prequels. I still remember getting some “hate” for being the only person who didn’t like the new Star Wars movies back in early 2000’s. Even in around 2005 or so with Revenge of the Sith, I still remember getting some “hate” from other in person at that time for not like those new Star Wars movies. They liked to give me a hard time about it. Wish I could talk to them today to see if they still love those movies.

I remember some people were excited for that Clone Wars cartoon movie back in 2008 wanting us all to go watch that in the theater. I knew it would be bad and didn’t go with them. But I went on my own to watch it.

The way I thought then is the same way I’m thinking now of these new Star Wars movies and a lot of people “loving” them. I could be wrong, but it just feels the same like in 5-10 years that a lot of people who loved them now won’t by then. But I could be totally wrong on that. Especially since Disney will keep pumping out some kind of Star Wars movie every year including a brand new trilogy. With the prequels, people had years and years to just focus on those movies.

I remember seeing TPM in ‘99 and knowing it was a letdown but not wanting to admit it. Something about seeing lightsabers and title crawls on the big screen again muddied my brain and convinced me it was good. Repeat viewings confirmed otherwise.

I saw AOTC and ROTS once each. Both terrible films.

Admittedly I enjoyed the special editions at the time. I was just glad to see those films remastered and in theatres. But I quickly wished up and realised laserdisc rips of the unaltered OT were the way forward.

In short, I think you’re probably right that people won’t feel the same about these films in 5-10 years.

What’s funny is I know I saw TPM back in 1999, but I can’t remember what I thought of that movie at the time. I can only remember The Matrix being this awesome movie of that time period. But thing is, at that point, the last time I had watched the OT was on VHS and TV in the mid 80’s. And I had pretty much forgotten about Star Wars other than in the early 90’s getting an extended universe book of Luke Skywalker. I forget it, but I remember it opened with Luke on a planet and a ship from outerspace crashing.

So when TPM came around, I knew it was a big thing, but didn’t care much. I didn’t watch the OT again until 2004 with the release of the DVD. Which apparently that was also a lot of others first experience with the special editions OT.

So TPM for me was a “whatever” as I wasn’t into Star Wars at the time, and I didn’t start paying attention until the Clone Wars Episode II came out. So I started paying attention to Star Wars again and was like “These new ones are crap”.

I do remember also in 2005. I watched Episode 1, then 2 on DVD. Then watched Revenge of Sith in the theater, then re-watched the 2004 DVD’s of the OT. I also realized at that point that it is NOT a good idea to watch the prequels, then watching the OT. I just felt gross watching the prequels, and then going right into the OT. If you watch all 6 in a session, then watch the OT first, then finish it with the prequels.

I will say this, the prequels got me back into the Star Wars universe. So because of the prequels, I wanted to check out those OT DVD’s in 2004 and remembered how good the OT was. As it had been like 20 years since I had watched them back in the 80’s.

I know some people ask what order to watch all of these movies in. i.e. like with their children in the future. I believe the BEST order to watch them in is the order of their theatrical release. OT, then prequels, then the Disney stuff.

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Ryan said:

SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

This whole forum exists because people weren’t happy about the special editions and the general retconning of Star Wars. I joined in 2005 and pretty sure it was around a good while before that.

I don’t doubt that. As I too hated the prequels back in 2005 and before that. So I’m sure there were a lot of others like that as well. I’m just reporting on what I personally experienced at that time. There are a lot of youtube channels right now and even back in 2010 where they talk about originally loving the prequels, but now realizing they were garbage.

Back at around 2005, I wasn’t on “Star Wars” message boards. But just regular message boards where people would sometimes talk about Star Wars and how they loved the new ones. And everyone I knew in person at the time, loved the prequels. I still remember getting some “hate” for being the only person who didn’t like the new Star Wars movies back in early 2000’s. Even in around 2005 or so with Revenge of the Sith, I still remember getting some “hate” from others in person at that time for not like those new Star Wars movies. They liked to give me a hard time about it. Wish I could talk to them today to see if they still love those movies.

I remember some people were excited for that Clone Wars cartoon movie back in 2008 wanting us all to go watch that in the theater. I knew it would be bad and didn’t go with them. But I went on my own to watch it.

The way I thought then is the same way I’m thinking now of these new Star Wars movies and a lot of people “loving” them. I could be wrong, but it just feels the same like in 5-10 years that a lot of people who loved them now won’t by then. But I could be totally wrong on that. Especially since Disney will keep pumping out some kind of Star Wars movie every year including a brand new trilogy. With the prequels, people had years and years to just focus on those movies.

adywan said:

Ryan said:

Matt.F said:

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for. Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

Does Vader have the ability in OT to read minds? I never thought that. As Vader used torture to get information i.e. with Leia and Han.

yes, He read Luke’s mind in ROTJ. It’s how he discovered Luke had a twin sister

I don’t really look at that as Vader “reading Luke’s mind”, in that Luke probably communicated it to Vader in accident as apparently he was trying to keep it from Vader. i.e. Vader kept trying to prod Luke into revealing things to him. And then Luke get’s mad in part that he revealed this to Vader and that Vader talked of turning Leia in that Luke then lost it and went on a rage attack against Vader then cutting his hand off and realizing he was turning into Vader. And then threw his lightsaber away to stop himself.

Matt.F said:

Vader also “somehow forgets” to read the mind of Captain Antilles, the captured Rebel Troopers and Princess Leia to find out where the Death Star plans are and where the hidden Rebel base is. There you go, a similar contrivance just as you asked for. Now please stop being such a pedantic killjoy!

Does Vader have the ability in OT to read minds? I never thought that. As Vader used torture to get information i.e. with Leia and Han.

SilverWook said:

That’s a long time to hopefully win a wager. 😉

Yes. I can still remember at work or where ever and talking to everyone who liked Star Wars and had been watching the prequels, and they all loved the prequels. But I didn’t. And none of them could understand why I didn’t like the new Star Wars movies. I remember then watching Revenge of the Sith with a bunch of people, and I thought it was a better movie than the first two. But I still didn’t like it. And everyone else who was there loved the movie and didn’t understand why I didn’t like it. Etc, stuff like that. I don’t even remember seeing any prequel hate online when the prequels were still new in the theater. I remember being on message boards at the time as the 2004 DVD’s were out, and people loving the prequels AND loving the changes to the Original Trilogy. i.e. “I loved it that George added a bump noise when that Storm Trooper hits his head.”

Then years went buy when I started seeing a lot of prequel hate online. I also remember watching videos say in 2010 of people talking about how they at the time thought the prequels were amazing, but “now” realize they were fooled and that they really were crap. etc. i.e. they were in Lucas worship mod at the time.

I think one reason people are “tricked” into liking the new movies is because Lucas isn’t involved in them. And so they “have” to be good.

I still think 10 years from now. Most of the people who love 7-9 will be complaining about how much crap it is. Just like what happened with the prequels. Lots of people loved them at the time, and it seems to have taken 10 years for people to realize how crappy the prequels were. Though I thought the prequels were crap when they were being released just like now with the new trilogy.

There was a shot of an X-Wing under the water. And when Luke showed up at the end to fight Kylo Ren. I had thought he pulled the X-Wing from the water and flew it there. But of course we learned it was just a force projection or something. Though this whole force projection thing is pretty lame. It’s just a way to get Kylo and Rey to interact without using a telephone or something.

Wexter said:

If she is really no one, then her force vision in TFA has been a particularly dishonest red herring.

That’s what I was thinking. A bunch of build up for nothing. I’m thinking her parents being random junkers isn’t true. I’m thinking something is going to be revealed in Episode 9 with her lineage being of importance. I still think she is related to Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Matt.F said:

Balance of the Force has been a theme throughout the saga, particularly in the prequels. I don’t know if anyone noticed but the round pool near Luke’s special rock seemed to have a balance symbol, rather similar to Yin and Yang.

I actually thought The Last Jedi gave us a really nice, naturalistic, presentation of the Force, and went a long way to retcon the mistake of Midichlorians, blood tests, and ‘all in the genes’ exclusivity that the PT advanced.

Rey isn’t a Skywalker, she isn’t a Kenobi. She’s no one. And for the audience, that makes her everyone.

Still doesn’t make sense that Rey just so happened to have grown up next to the Millennium Falcon. Then stole it and ran into Han who obviously knew Luke. Which Rey was with Finn running from the New Order and Kylo. And then Luke tells Rey that he hasn’t seen that much raw power but once before, and it was Kylo.

None of it adds up just like Han so happened to come across the Falcon after it being stolen many many years ago.

Mielr said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

flametitan said:

almost everything on the casino planet

If nothing else, the “riding the CGI animals” stuff was prequel-level awful.

Don’t be that guy, Frink.

He’s right though. I went to the bathroom at that point.

I agree. I pretty much lost all hope at that point. TFA and R1 were much better in that regard. I never really got any awful Prequel flashbacks watching them.

I did with the large CGI animals butt-crack in TFA.

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Reys fast progression, the ‘Mary Sue’ complaint.

I thought this was explained and dealt with very elegantly in the sequence within Snoke’s chamber. Snoke’s “Darkness rises… and light to meet it” speech clarifies that as Kylo’s dark side power has grown, the Force has found natural balance by also growing the light side. Snoke had mistakenly assumed this growing power was manifested within Skywalker, but in this speech he makes it clear that it was Rey that was the recipient.

I guess the Force forgot to grow the light side when Darth Sidious and his apprentices wiped out the Jedi order and brought tiranny to the galaxy. Every Jedi including Anakin, created by the Force, and Luke have had to work hard at getting control over their Force powers, but Rey just magically gets them, because Kylo Ren stepped on the scene, a poor man’s Darth Vader, and an even poorer Emperor/Supreme Leader. It’s a pretty weak defense in my view.

They missed a huge opportunity. They should have just cherry picked stuff from the Extended Universe and made that the 7-9 trilogy.

I still remember at the time people loving the prequels, and I was the only one I knew who thought they were crap at the time. Then it seemed years and years later you saw all the hate come about on the internet. I really think years and years down the road, people will do the same to 7-9 who now love them.

Wexter said:

I fail to see what is supposed to be so “different” about this movie.

The way I see it, it goes like this:

• A group of Rebels is evacuating from their hidden base after being discovered by the Empire. They are not able to flee through the hyperspace because of technical difficulties.
• A group of characters sets out to meet a scoundrel, who might be able to help them out. However, he turns them in to the Empire.
• The protagonist from the last movie meets an exiled Jedi Master. After some hesitation the master agrees to teach her about the Force. She then encounters a reflection of herself in a dark cave and leaves before the training is complete.
• The protagonist believes there is still good in the villain, so she turns herself over to him. He brings her to his master who reveals he was behind it all. He is about to kill the protagonist, but the villain turns on him and kills him.
• The villain then invites the protagonist to help him bring new order to the galaxy, but the protagonist escapes.
• Then there’s a battle with speeders and AT-ATs.
• And the Jedi Master becomes one with the Force after delivering his final lesson.

My problem is that I think TESB and ROTJ did all of the above. It was admittedly a bit less flashy than this time around, but it was still more enjoyable.

Yes, I consider TLJ to have a lot of similar beats to Empire. They even had a “twist” people weren’t expecting.

Luke was living in isolation on a planet. And they even had Yoda make an appearance. Though for some reason, Yoda looked rather crappy. I think the ROTS Yoda looked better.

They also had kind of re-did the evil “cave” thing from Empire. And the rebel base thing also appeared to be similar to Hoth the “ice” planet in Empire with walkers, etc.

I’m now expecting in Episode 9 to have some furry characters and have another Starkiller base or something like in Jedi.

Hal 9000 said:

Wow, I just looked this up. Look at this disparity. Roughly same critical reception, markedly lower audience reception.

(edited to fix links)

I’m betting many in the audience were pissed with what they did with Luke’s character.

Not counting that it seems like half of the movie was that “force projection” or whatever it is they are calling it.

I originally didn’t like the idea of them bringing back the original characters as I didn’t want to see an old Leia as Carry Fisher didn’t really look all that great.

But then I warmed up to the idea and was expecting the new trilogy to be of Luke running the Jedia temple or something. And maybe his kids or something have a conflict that drove the new narrative for the new trilogy or something. That’s what I was expecting, but didn’t get anything like that. I think Luke was just wasted and would have much rather he not even have been in these new movies based on what we had gotten.

But back in 2012 or so, I was expecting to see a bad ass all powerful Luke running around kicking ass for at least 7 and 8.

Does anyone know what outline Lucas had for the new trilogy that he gave to Disney that they rejected?

I can’t remember. Does it say in TLJ why Snoke wanted to find Luke?

Haarspalter said:

Ryan said:

I really hope on the Blu-Ray that they do a commentary track the writers and director so maybe they can shed some light on what they were thinking.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcBiJZvjBnl/

Sounds great. Though I do hope they have multiple commentary tracks and have Hammill and others do one as well.

I really hope on the Blu-Ray that they do a commentary track the writers and director so maybe they can shed some light on what they were thinking.

I’ve read that they went back to the original negatives of the scenes shot and the original film for the special effects and bluescreen ships and things and scanned all of that and digitally re-composited that back together?

I do like them removing the matte lines and blending that all back. I really hate matte lines. And I can still remember the terrible matte lines of Luke and that Rancor thing in Jedi.

I also like them fixing some of the lightsabers and fixing errors like the red arm in the Wampa scene very early on in Empire.

One thing is I wish Harmy would have left in the fixed matte lines and other fixes like them removing that red arm in the wampa scene.

I really wish the Blu-Ray release of older movies in general that they would at least digitally remove the matte lines. I’ve got the Goonies on Blu-Ray and really hate the matte lines when the kid is looking through the hole in the coin. I just wish they’d gotten rid of matte lines as even in the 80’s, those matte lines would stick out and take me out of the movie.

I hate this scene. It spoils the Jabba scenes in Jedi.

Also, it feels it shouldn’t even be there. I was really glad that Lucas or someone cut that out in 1977.

Whenever I buy The Last Jedi on Blu-Ray, I think I’m going to just buy the 4K version even though I don’t have 4K yet. Reason is I just found out that the 4K versions of movies ALSO include the Blu-Ray disc. I didn’t know that. So, I might as well just buy it once, instead of in the future having to track down the 4K version.

So, I’m going to start buying the 4K version of movies even though I don’t have 4K yet because they also contain a Blu-Ray disc.

I have the Steelbooks for Ghostbusters 1 and 2 on Blu-Ray. And learned they had a 4K release. But that they also had a new Blu-Ray release based on the 4K master that’s supposed to look better than the earlier Blu-Ray release. So I bought the new Blu-Ray release but then found out that the 4K release ALSO has the Blu-Ray disc that was done of the 4K master. So I should have just bought the 4K version since it has both 4K disc and Blu-Ray disc that was from the 4K master. They should have advertised this a lot more as I didn’t know of this.

It would have been so great if the Unaltered Original Trilogy had been released at least in DVD quality on DVD. Instead of that laserdisc transfer thing they did on DVD. It would have made watching the unaltered version so much easier in a decent quality.

Though with Disney buying 21st Century Fox, then there really is NO MORE EXCUSES for not releasing the unaltered versions on Blu-Ray and/or 4K.

Anjohan said:

Ryan said:
They tried making Luke into a Yoda character who goofed around. But it was just terrible.

No, they didn’t? How and when did he goof around? Drinking milk? Eating fish? How is that goofing? It’s his day of life. It’s his nutrition. It’s not like he played Poker every night or took a piss off the cliff or had dancing lessons with Porgs. He has been in his own world for years now, and is living like Yoda - but not by being him. Luke is not paticularly wise or level headed. He is angry and annoyed and hateful, both at himself but also at the cards he has been dealt in his life.

The worst thing is I love the original Luke Lightsaber. And in The Last Jedi, Luke just tosses it away like he’s in an SNL skit. They didn’t just ruin Luke’s character, but now when watching the Original Trilogy, I’ll never get out of my head of Luke just tossing that Lightsaber like in the trash.

So they ruined Luke’s character because he tossed away his old saber? The saber he lost when his own father cut of his hand, after the revelation that said father was one of the most cruel men in the galaxy? How does that ruin his character?

I surprised how they apparently killed Snoke. I was thinking he’d be like the Emperor in VI and copy the themes in VI for Episode IX.

Exactly the point. EVERYONE thought Snoke was the Emperor V2. And after the predictable A New Hope mess that was The Force Awakens, Rian Johnson took this character - that served his purpose by the end - and turned it on its head. Nobody expected it. Nobody expected Kylo Ren to become the new bad. We are so used to The Emperor and the apprentice redemption arc, that Rian fooled us - and he fooled us good, to the benefit of the story.

The impression I got of Luke is he is a hokey character kind of like Yoda was when we first saw him. But I just don’t think it worked well. It’s not what I was wanting for Luke post-Jedi.

I wanted Luke to be more of a badass type character kind of like we got in some of those Legends stuff.

I plan on seeing it again next week. I’m really don’t like the movie, but I do think it was put together a lot better than The Force Awakens. So maybe over time I’ll get more used the The Last Jedi, and hopefully I can ignore the Disney crap to still be able to enjoy the Original Trilogy.