Ryan-SWI

idir_hh said:

When I think of Rey’s character, what come to mind is an A-sexual Xbox avatar.

That’s an insult to Xbox avatars.

RogueLeader said:

You know, it is kind of surprising that they went into this trilogy knowing the main character would be female, but they didn’t seem to even consider hiring a female writer. I mean, clearly there were female cooks in the kitchen early on, like Kennedy and Hart. And I’m not saying men can’t write women characters, but I feel like Rey might’ve lacked something that a female writer really could’ve provided for her.

Rey is far from the biggest issue with Disney’s films. Even if she were expertly written the trilogy would still be hot trash from a story perspective.

I despise TFA and TLJ but can fully understand how someone may enjoy those films… I guess. I absolutely cannot fathom how anyone could defend TROS without being drunk out of their mind; it’s the cinematic equivalent of a computer generated algorithm shorting out while the Star Wars theme plays in the background and a 5 year old smashes 500 million dollar action figures against the computer terminal. It is probably the single most perfect example of a corporate-controlled dumpster fire we’ll ever see.

Darth Lucas said:

Thatstinkyguy said:

Found a site that sells the Despecialized Trilogy on the site and eBay. They brag about being “the real deal” too.

https://www.swdespecialized.com/product/sw-despecialized-original-trilogy-blu-ray-set-documentaries

They’re getting pretty ballsy now. Selling from their own dedicated website claiming to be some sort of official retailer? I guess they win though because I have no idea how to fight that.

$74.99 for some made at home burnt BD’s, and pretending to be the “official” source of the Despecialised editions to boot.

Unbelievable.

EDIT: Haha, I missed the credit to the creator segment. “Thanks Harmy for making these so we can illegally sell them for our own profit xoxoxo”.

I don’t know if that or the “I’m only charging what the material costs” line is better. Has anyone here ever spent $75 making a custom DVD or BD set for a fan edit or preservation? I sure as hell haven’t.

ChainsawAsh said:

Are you sure? I thought we had cinema DTS tracks for the 97 SE’s and the PT. I know we have TPM and ROTS, I was pretty positive we had AOTC, too.

You’re right, I just checked the usual place and we do have the PT DTS tracks.

That’s my bad, I’ve been out of the loop for a little bit.

Additionally I ask if we have the Theatrical DTS track for attack of the clones because if so, the previous paragraph will be irrelevant aas I can just mux that into the video file and I won’t need to export anything new from premiere.

Unfortunately as far as I’m aware we don’t.

How Attack of the Clones is the only film to not have an actual theatrical copy that isn’t a crappy bootleg in 2019 astounds me. Even the aforementioned DTS track would be something.

After you get the 5.1 sorted I’d love to give it a watch though, not many theatrical preservations of AOTC have been attempted.

That’s the word to describe the movie. “Not explained”.

Bingo.

Honestly as much as I hate to say it, I’m just done with new Star Wars all together after this. I hated TFA and TLJ but still spent years arguing about the problems with them because while 99.99% of me was done with Disney Star Wars, there was still that 00.01% of me that had hope things would change. I’m so passionate about Star Wars and its story because Star Wars means so much to me, so I guess arguing and debating TFA and TLJ gave me a reason to still care about the franchise; because maybe I’d “win” and things would get better if I just persisted.

After TROS I can’t even work up the energy to argue with people anymore, I just don’t care. I don’t even care enough to keep watching The Mandalorian; I’m finally 100% apathetic and disinterested in anything this zombie franchise has to offer anymore, they’ve lost all good will and I’ll never be giving them another cent.

They somehow found a way to torpedo cinema’s biggest franchise in just four years. If it wasn’t so tragic it’d be painfully impressive.

I don’t even think I’m mad about it, I just… Feel nothing. It’s too much energy to keep following something that makes me angry to even think about. I’m sick of hating Star Wars, so I’ll just keep George’s Saga of I - VI close and my library of Old EU books stocked, that’s all I need.

If people enjoy whatever the hell this Frankenstein of a franchise has turned into then cool, more power to you. But I can’t do this crap anymore, it’s not worth it.

DuracellEnergizer said:

The point isn’t that the OOT can’t be obtained; it’s that it’s been actively suppressed and forced into obscurity, which any cinephile should consider obscene.

Yep I agree, but it’s not 2005 and anyone who googles the theatrical versions can find them in a heartbeat.

At this point it’s beating a dead horse. They’re never getting released officially, so George wins, but you also have easy access to them unofficially, so you win too.

Enough is enough, bitching about it every time George Lucas comes up in discussion is getting pathetic and contributes nothing to the conversation.

Regardless this isn’t a thread for the special editions, it’s for TROS.

As there remains no proper restoration and release of the OOT, no, I’m not.

It’s 2019. There’s a thousand different options to watch the original version now, it’s not a big deal.

theprequelsrule said:

So let’s hear it already! Somebody give me a synopsis of this film?

Return of the Jedi, but bad. There ya go.

In all seriousness:

• Palpatine is back and it’s not explained how.

• Kylo goes to find him and it’s not explained why he was looking for him, or how he knows he’s alive.

• Snoke was a clone made by Palpatine. Not explained how or why, or anything more said on the matter.

• Palpatine somehow has a whole fleet of Star Destroyers with Death Star guns on them. Not explained how.

• Rey is a Palpatine, her Dad was Palpatine’s son (not explained how), so Rey is his granddaughter.

• Rey and Kylo can both save people from death and bring them back to life. Not explained how.

• Luke retconned from being a sad old suicidal man to “secretly” keeping tabs on Palpatine.

• Luke and Leia retconned to “know” Rey was a Palpatine the entire time.

• Leia dies, horrifically forced and poorly handled.

• Han is in it as a “memory” (???). Makes no sense whatsoever, but then neither does anything in this stupid movie.

• Palpatine shoots lightning at Rey, who deflects it back to Palpatine (Palpatine apparently decides that simply not shooting lightning anymore makes too much sense), then dies.

• Ben almost dies. Then he comes back. Then he dies. But wait no not actually. Then he dies (for real this time).

• Rey steals the Skywalker name.

• Force ghost Luke and Leia. Both look horrific and Leia is clearly CGI. Because nothing shouts “respect” like CGI’ing the ghost of a dead actress into your film for cheap nostalgia brownie points.

Those are the main points. I could write an essay on everything that happens in this ridiculous movie but it’s not worth my time.

Saw it last night. Probably the single most offensive piece of garbage that’s ever had the Star Wars name slapped on it.

Renders the PT pointless, the OT pointless, and even TFA and TLJ pointless. Who the hell was this movie made for? Because I do not see how this film could please any single subset of Star Wars fans.

I hope everyone who ragged on George Lucas relentlessly for decades is happy, because this is what happens when a committee of execs frothing over boardroom market research concludes one of cinema’s most important stories. What a joke.

The Saga ended with Return of the Jedi, this is an abomination. Disney Wars is not Star Wars and Rey is not a Skywalker.

No wonder George wasn’t at the premiere, he was probably at home drinking himself stupid.

act on instinct said:

When the R rated Joker movie breaks 1 billion I personally can’t picture TROS won’t make it too.

There is nothing remotely comparable about the two films.

Broom Kid said:

These are basically just empty buzzwords.

Nope, not really. And repeating the “but what 'bout the marketing” argument for the prequels is just tiresome at this point. If George only cared about merchandising money he would have done what Disney is doing with the ‘sequels.’

As far as creative bankruptcy goes, I’d call basing an entire trilogy on nostalgia without an actual story plan as pretty creatively bankrupt. This trilogy isn’t about anything and it contributes nothing to the story told in Episodes I - VI. It’s just a bunch of random stuff about random people set in the Star Wars universe. If the Skywalker Saga were a video game then the ST would be a $1.99 skin pack dlc.

These films are not made by Lucas, approved by Lucas, or even have a hair of Lucas’ involvement, so it can’t be an ending to his story.
Him being on set for a day as a courtesy visit doesn’t count as a contribution; if he had any role in the new films he’d be credited beyond just a “based on a story by…” credit.

Trevorrow has a bigger credit than Lucas on TROS and he left before the cameras started rolling.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I continue to be amused by you PT & ST fanboys. You’re both so quick to notice the speck in the other’s trilogy while failing to notice the beam in your own.

Lol, righto.

All three trilogies have their issues but the ST is the only one creatively bankrupt, made by committee and without the involvement of the series’ creator. If J.K. Rowling bought the Tolkien estate and wrote a Lord of the Rings sequel she’d be well within her right to, but nobody would regard it as such, just as that Cursed Child nonsense was rejected by the Harry Potter fanbase. The ST only gets a pass from some because of the ungodly amount of money and marketing pumped into the thing by one of the biggest film corporations in the world; but it’s really no different at all. Literal corporate fan fiction, and not even good fan fiction.

For all the prequel trilogy’s faults it’s not creatively bankrupt, it wasn’t made by committee and most importantly it had direct involvement from the series’ creator. How anybody could think “The Rise of Skywalker” is the conclusion to George Lucas’ story is beyond me.

fluffyburger said:

What do you guys think? Would you watch this order?

I respect the time and thought put into this, but I think chronological is the way to go. It’s the way the story was intended to unfold and it’s been fine for everyone I’ve introduced the saga to. All these different “viewing orders” do nothing but confuse newcomers and any newcomer isn’t going to be as pedantic about the films as we are. Plus let’s be real, even most people who haven’t seen Star Wars know about the Vader twist in ESB, so it’s not exactly a surprise anymore.

So Episode I - VI for me.

That business with the corporate fan fiction doesn’t, doesn’t count.

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Anakin WAS redeemed as an old man, therefore, he should be an old looking force ghost…for lack of a better way of putting it.

Every time these discussions come up the most simple answer is always ignored; Hayden was put in because the audience can actually identify with Hayden’s Anakin. Shaw’s Anakin is never once seen at any point until the final minutes of Return of the Jedi and Hayden’s Anakin has two entire movies and almost five hours of screen time dedicated to him. If you put Return of the Jedi in the context of the six film saga then Shaw’s Anakin is visually out of place, it’s really that simple.

There are thematic arguments in defense of both sides but the simplest answer is just audience familiarity. I personally find the hate on Hayden’s Ghost Anakin vs. the Palpatine recast extremely hypocritical and screams of anger filled double standards; trying to rationalize the double standard just digs the hole deeper.

I personally prefer Hayden’s Ghost Anakin even though I grew up with Shaw’s Ghost Anakin, but as with every SE/Theatrical debate I think both sides would be perfectly happy if both versions of the films were freely available to the public, which should be the case anyway.

I’m gonna chip in with the lowest and say a worldwide total of $750 million, with a domestic total of $350 million and an opening weekend of $130 million.

Your_friendly_Imperial said:

The Emperor being played by Ian McDiarmid, instead of being an old woman with monkey eyes.

That thing looks like a zombie.

Honestly most of the ESB changes I prefer.

Cthulhunicron said:

If the new movies don’t do anything original, it’s honestly just difficult for me to feel any interest in them. The ST movies are fairly competent so far, but to me they’re merely “okay.” If they put out episode 10 and it’s new rebels vs new empire, and they have to blow up an even bigger Death Star, I really don’t know how to get excited about that.

Pretty much the reason I gave up on DisWars, and I truly don’t understand how anybody can get invested in a worse version of the original trilogy, but whatever.

Back when Solo was about to hit theaters, and during, I was on the box office thread stating that it’d flop and that it is currently flopping, but I had a half dozen users calling me “wrong” and that the film was “going strong” and that it was “too early” to call that. Those comments aged like milk.

I think TROS will make money but I honestly don’t know if it’ll clear a billion. I don’t think a lot of DisWars fans realize how apathetic people have become to the brand. I’ve heard every excuse in the book but numbers don’t lie, and the brand is making less than it ever has. I would’ve said it was impossible a few years ago, but a few years ago if you’d told someone a live action Star Wars movie would lose hundreds of millions at the box office they’d laugh in your face, and yet here we are. The brand has been utterly run into the ground.

I’m sure opening weekend will be strong when all the fans rush out to see it, but the second week will be the most telling. I could very well be proven wrong and I’ll eat my words if I am, but it’s entirely possible we’ll have another box office performance like BvS or Justice League.

Regardless, the one thing for certain is that if it doesn’t clear a billion executive heads will roll like they never have before.

yotsuya said:

Star Wars movies have traditionally not relied on just diehard fans to make money.

How’d that go for Solo?

TROS won’t lose money but it’s not going to meet the expectations suits at the top want.

Star Wars has been on a decline in public interest for a while now. Movie sales are down. Toy sales are down. Merch sales are down. Book/comic/game sales are down. Google searches are down. Trailer views are down. Social media engagement is down. Everything is down.

Why there are still people who insist that Star Wars is doing just fine is beyond me. The IP is tanking hard, worse than it ever has before, and the numbers are reflecting that in droves.

Disney/nuLucasfilm has torpedoed the brand and if TROS underperforms it’s in serious trouble.

TPM: Less poop jokes
AOTC: More Anakin/Obi Wan bonding
ROTS: Remove the “Nooooo”
ANH: Improve the Obi Wan/Vader fight
ESB: Less annoying C3P0
ROTJ: Change the first 40 minutes. Totally pointless.

TFA: Change the fact that the film exists.
TLJ: Change the fact that the film exists.

ZigZig said:

Ryan-SWI said:

As for that TPM VHS mentioned, that also isn’t the theatrical version. It’s close but it has a few minor alterations to it.

AFAIK, TPM VHS, VCD and Laserdisc contain the theatrical version, as well as early TV broadcasts (Scandinavian C+, Austrian ORF1…). What “few minor alterations” are you referring to?

By memory there’s a very slighty different shot of Darth Maul during the final duel on the pan and scan version, and on both p&s and ws there’s a few different audio cues and the subtitles don’t quite match. I’m on mobile so I can’t go digging around on OT to find the forum posts, but they’re on here.

Like I said, minor altercations, but altercations all the same. I’ve got several CAM VCD bootlegs of TPM and AOTC because they’re the only surviving true theatricals of the films. The Z edition of TPM’s CAM bootleg is still used as a reference point for this very reason.

The AOTC VHS is not theatrical. No official theatrical version of that film exists on home video, only in the form of CAM bootlegs.

As for that TPM VHS mentioned, that also isn’t the theatrical version. It’s close but it has a few minor alterations to it.

All of this has been extensively documented on these forums before though.

Voss Caltrez said:

But in Obi-Wan’s time, or even Qui-Gon Jinn’s, how was there any real challenge for a Jedi, outside of fellow Force users, like Sith Lords? Their were numerous Jedi back then and they were all well trained and adept witht he Force, and not late bloomers like Luke.

It just seems like with all their abilities, any fights they had would be pretty boring. I mean, apparently the Sith had been extinct for a long time until Darth Maul showed up.

For over a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times, before the Empire. - Obi-Wan Kenobi, A New Hope.

You pretty much answered your own question didn’t you? Not much happened before the Sith showed up because they were so powerful, like you said. Not to mention the Jedi weren’t overthrown by sheer force, it was Palpatine’s slow manipulation. By the time Order 66 came around:

Our ability to use the force has diminished - Mace Windu, Revenge of the Sith.

pleasehello said:

I find it strangely dissonant that you dismiss TFA and TLJ as “nostalgic cashgrabs” and “corporate fan fiction”, yet you say you “loved” Rogue One.

Contrary to your opinion, I thought that TFA and TLJ while they do play on nostalgia, had a lot more heart than Rogue One, which I felt was a soulless assembly of recognizable imagery built around hollow characters.

TFA and TLJ add nothing of value to the saga of I - VI, Rogue One does.

The characters in Rogue One may be very underdeveloped, but at least they’re actual characters with flaws and personalities, and not Cliche Two Dimensional Character #1, #2 and #3.

LordZerome1080 said:

I agree with you but I do like the Vader comics

I forgot about those and I agree, they’re of good quality, I was more referring to films and TV in my post.

There have been a couple good comic series’, but I really don’t like the novels put out. They remind me of the most average of the pre-2014 EU. Even then, if I’ve got to choose between DisCanon’s comics and Dark Horse, I’m gonna go with Dark Horse.

Voss Caltrez said:

I wish SOLO’s origin story had a bit more edge to it.

I didn’t mind the lack of edge too much though it would have been nice, I just wish it had more weight to it. The film is called “SOLO” but take out Han Solo himself and the story barely changes, the whole film feels very inconsequential to the character.

Mavimao said:

I understand fans’ frustrations with Rey’s sudden abilities, but did we really need another training montage?

No, but we needed an explanation because these films are claiming to be the 7th and 8th part of a 40 year old episodic saga and they don’t seem to care about anything set up prior.

It’s really no wonder so many people see these films as corporate fan fiction.

If TFA and TLJ were just stand alone spin off movies most people would probably dismiss them like they did Solo, but the problem is they’re saying this is the “sequel trilogy” despite advancing nothing of narrative substance in the broader context and actively going out of its way to undermine everything that came before.

I maintain that in twenty years the only thing this trilogy will be recognised for is the biggest wasted opportunity in cinematic history. They had endless potential and could have done literally anything, but instead went for a quick nostalgic cashgrab that’ll age like an opened can of beer. Unbelievable.

I’m personally in a weird spot because I loved Rogue One and really liked Solo, but have hated every other piece of material we’ve been given. At this point as far as I’m concerned the saga is I - VI and the only thing I’m interested in is the spin off movies and upcoming shows. More power to you if you’re looking forward to IX, but it just ain’t for me.

screams in the void said:

^ in the interests of trying to better understand where you are coming from , what was the explanation of Rey’s power that failed to convince that you mentioned?

Not the person you’re replying to but my main issue with Rey’s power is a general issue throughout almost all of “DisCanon” - lazy and dumbed down explanations that don’t mesh with what’s come before.

The simple fact is that Rey is magically the most powerful Jedi ever, even moreso than Anakin. Inside of a week without knowing anything beforehand she’s just suddenly fantastic and can stand toe-to-toe with anyone and everything. The difference between her and literal force Jesus Anakin though, is that Anakin had an explanation from the get go. Then you have Luke, who has force Jesus’ blood running in his veins but still is nowhere near as competent as Rey in the OT (if anyone starts saying Luke was just as bad because he blew up the Death Star I may just have a brain aneurysm). Meanwhile Rey, 2/3 of the way through the trilogy, is just unbelievably powerful for no reason.

The only excuse I ever see to rebut how stupidly powerful and perfect she is is “yes but in this one scene she is sad, and in this one scene she is struggling to deal with not knowing who she is.”

Anakin had to bare the weight of being crowned “The Chosen One” and Luke had to bare the weight of his Dad being the most evil man in existence. Taking this into account, we’re meant to find some rando junk scavenger who’s perfect at everything without having to earn a lick of it compelling because she’s sad she hasn’t seen her parents in 20 years, by comparison? Come on.

The excuse of “IX will fix it” doesn’t fly either because VIII didn’t fix VII and regardless films should stand on their own merit, not need other films to make sense. That’s poor writing.

On top of that you had the TLJ novel explain her powers that came out of nowhere as her downloading them from Kylo’s mind. Because apparently Star Wars movies are RPG video games now.

Star Wars writing has been across the board lazy beyond reconcile since 2015 and it’s only getting dumber.

Nobody gave a pass to Anakin being a 9 year old who could do anything despite him being force Jesus, so why in God’s name does Rey get one?