Ronster

I would prefer to believe they are more dangerous with full armour on.... Actually this is the only moment where a stormtrooper is remotely dangerous yet we don't see anything and it does not sound like a stormtrooper.

But C3PO tells us when chewie repairs him

Thinking about it..... Is there actually any storm trooper lines in empire?

It is something that seperates it quite a lot from star wars a new hope where troopers although faceless I miss that sound of the stormtroopers dialogue... If some could be added I think it might work very well especially cloud city and hoth... Although not in excess more of a token effort than trying to add in dialogue that simply does not exist but it is something missing with empire.

When i say token dialogue... Without feeling cheap but the audio was actually the only factor that made storm troopers characters to add a "sir" or "blast them" might be enough at least to connect the dots to their previous incarnation.

A small touch but a big difference it would be

While it seems that people here generally get more roused by visual suggestion for revisited... I have been looking into the audio differences and i think I have spotted a few things it seems that Audio does get skimmed over when it comes up for discussion...

Anyway when CSP0 get's blasted by a storm trooper off screen...

I wonder if the original or special edition dialogue will be used... But the main point i wanted to raise was it actually does not sound like a storm trooper...

I am not asking for any changes to this but if it were to sound like the stormtrooper radio helmet would this be an improvement for continuity or ruin ambiguity...

Perhaps worth trying out though

Kapheen said:

Regardless, this is Adywan's project, and ultimately his vision of what ESB should have been. If he wants to put taun tauns in space, it's his right. 

(I'm secretly hoping that he sneaks in another battle droid head into the scrap heap on Cloud City, like he did in the Jawa crawler in ANH:R)

BTW I really like this idea... And I wanted to comment earlier but the big debate has swallowed your good idea... But I did not want it to get lost in a sea of opinion about other things that I guess are taking precedence right now.

so I bumped it for you.

Has anyone got anything fresh to add to the debate because it has become circular... In my mind I feel at the moment the possibilities are comprised of 3 choices... But if anyone cares to expand please do.

1. Leave it alone faults intact

2. Leave reveal in tact and flip underbelly and wide shots of executor

3. Remove confusing reveal shot and replace with a traditional SD Reveal (as opposed to flipping or recolouring confusing bridge shot) with option to also flip executor wide shots and underbelly for continuity of arriving at hoth or flip both shadow shots.

That is my final thoughts until something new comes up I am done but to me these are the only options I would personally consider at the moment. I think if it were to become a star destroyer you need to make it a traditional reveal.. But that is perhaps just me.

Being in the executor camp myself I would also like to thank the SD camp for making me see things a different way that never before occurred to me but I don't think you can flip the bridge reveal or re-color it grey sorry.... well you could but it would just look too weird

I have no idea how many shots would actually need to be flipped if the original reveal was left intact and treated as correct but shots of the star destroyers would not always need flipping as there are star destroyers on either side.

So It may only be the executor travelling left to right that would need to be flipped and the underbelly I think.

Thinking Laterally....

It's a better idea if any flipping of shots happens... Then the Reveal should be left in tact and the horizontal Executor travelling left to right and any other subsequent shots with errors should be flipped in preference of flipping the reveal in my opinion.

The empire arrives at Hoth travelling from Right to left so the executor and the fleet for continuity should mirror this and the reveal should be treated as correct and all other shots should be fixed in terms of lighting direction and improving the flow.

How about that idea as a better alternative?

Or do a lot of people just want to pick at the first shot because they want it to be a star destroyer?

Bingowings said:

Come back Chewie's foot particles all is forgiven.

School Boy error bingo

The snow particle of which you speak dislodged itself from in between chewies toes and blew onto the lens of the camera on the miniatures set... Although it looks like a star it is in fact the very same snow particle.

Since it looks quite similar and does not stand out as being too unlike the stars in the picture ILM never bothered to remove it.

@wexter sorry it was cut off at the top bar to show difference in distances above the bridge

@Alanfae yeah on purpose or not it's the lens effect that is causing the appearance of difference in distance...

you also are right on the flip... Because the lighting direction and as muddy knees pointed out...

But to flip that reveal shot adds more weight to either remove it entirely and replace or make it grey and a star destroyer at least that is what I keep coming to when thinking of it.

The problem of making it a star destroyer is the executor camp will be looking at a grey executor... even if you flip it and recolour it... It's burnt in

The star destroyer camp have always been used to seeing the blue star destroyer so it should not make much odds to them really?

Wexter said:

But you do realize there really is no difference in distances, right?

YEP clear as a bell my point was it was not an angular appearance of difference 

I'll buy the lens theory... I think they would have purposefully used a different lens (setting than standard) to make the same model appear different.

And it is clearly not the same lens or at least same settings being used in the comparison that we have here

it is over 2 times the distance I am not buying the angle theory... And that does not mean that I think the SD camp don't have a good case.

Not the angle though

the first shot is even closer in than the second and it is still a greater distance

In fact the whole top part is different you should at that angle in the first shot see more of that top Bar but you actually see less of it because it's not the same.

Why did they alter the model then SD camp?

Thats why I said it was wider they did this to make it appear wider than a normal SD bridge

SpilkaBilka said:

I'm in the camp that thinks it's just a regular SD, though I can sort of see how it might work as being the Executor.

But for those who think it's the Executor, let me ask you this: let's say it's 1980 and you've seen SW, and now you're watching ESB for the first time.  You know what a SD looks like.  The shot in question comes up- the massive tower fills up the screen.

It looks just like a SD tower that's been established in SW and the beginning of ESB.  What about this tower would possibly lead you to believe that it's anything but a SD?

It's a different color and it is slightly different looking (Radar Bar)

If the filmmakers wanted us to think it was a different type of ship... why would the initial reveal of it be a structure that is identical to that of a ship that has been clearly previously established in the movies?

To Trick you

Those in the Executor camp- do you think the filmmakers' intent was for the audience to think right away that the tower belongs to a different kind of ship, OR, after seeing the body of the Executor, was the audience then supposed to think, "oh, that first shot of the tower was actually this much larger ship"?

Yep 2nd one

But with all that said I still think The SD camp have a point and it is not entirely clear and the first glimpse of the executor would work better as it's shadow so I am actually split in two over it all now.... but that is my main stance before thinking about ripping it all to shreds to make it less confusing it's never actually entered my mind until coming here that this was anything other than the executor... Now I can never see it the same which is probably why I would not mind seeing the shot taken out of this context entirely

It's become the two faces or the candlestick

I now see one or the other or both so it is pretty much ruined

I think the better approach would be loose the thing that is actually causing confusion rather than move it so it can cause confusion elsewhere in this context let me make that clear.

I am quite ruthless when it comes to things of this nature so you may as well loose that confusing shot entirely and use the opening shot from Return of the Jedi as has already been stated that Ady will have the executor arrive at DSII so is this shot not available?

In Adywan canon this may be the best solution all round

The Star destroyer going overhead minus the shuttle. perhaps even keep it makes no odds but obviously no DSII Endor could stay or be removed it would be interesting either way.

This shot of the bridge could then be used in ROTJ:R instead (As a Star Destroyer and in different context)... Like you say it is a fan edit.

Or as an alternate could be used for the opening of ESB have a Pan down to deep space then with the bridge shot then cut to the SD shots where it launches the probes this could be a real improvement in this context perhaps but it requires the footage being available from Jedi..... But there go my big clunky ideas again

Then there will also be no bones about what it is anymore...There is nothing wrong with the bridge footage everyone I think agrees, the context in which it is shown is the issue?

And it looks so much like a star destroyer bridge it could easily be used in the opening of ESB and not be confused for the executor?

It has always been the executor in my mind the shot of the bridge... But in terms of the sequence of events I can't argue that what is being said actually does make more sense in terms of narrative and Shadow is the first sniff of the executor we should get.

So even though my mind has always said that this is the executor it might actually be better to treat it as someone said a "Goof"

I do honestly think there is a minor difference in the Bridge model still though with the radar bar is smaller and is not the angle.

It does not make sense but then again a lot of things don't make sense that is what we are doing here after all.... To make Empire Strikes back make complete sense so it's fair game.

Ok I Watched it... And I enjoyed it.

I do have some points I would like to raise.

1. You Changed the order so Chewie get's delivered to Jabbas palace earlier but then cut the conversation with C3PO and R2 regarding "poor chewbacca and Lando never returned from this awful place" It felt like you did that to make the dialogue fit and then cut the dialogue?

2. Missed Lapti-Nek yeah it's sleazy but that is how it should be

3. Because droid torture got cut (yeah I understand) it felt weird C3PO was talking on behalf of Jabba

4. I Really liked the second conversation that Vader had with Luke telepathically very well done... Amazing what music can do

5. I like the opening you have but I think it would be better if you cut the emperor saying "my friend" for no reason when it feels like the conversation has already ended

6.I Loved the Ties Launching during the Battle... This was great moment

7.Bobba Fett plot although I think you did the best you could possibly do with it and I think you did a great job of showing how you would like to see the story progress, I kind of felt that it dragged it down a bit... But It's obviously not your fault If it were Proper footage this would actually work a lot better... Although I still think he should just bite the dust in the sarlaac but done better so you did not manage to change my mind on that unfortunatley. 

8.Really liked what you did with Jejerrod looking at the video screen.. But I also think you over did it a bit here... I would suggest reeling this in a bit.. But I did enjoy it how it was done so no bad thing.

9. The Luke / Leia brother sister plot got a bit lost and I felt that this was something missing from the drama.

Thanks for your hard work and overall well done... The Pacing is much better than some other edits on Jedi I have seen that cut Large Clumps out and butcher it... You have done well in this regard but Jabbas Palace has been carved up a bit.... but not butchered so well done

The only possible decent use for that scene is to roto Boba fett into another part of mos eisley so he could have a very minor character appearance skulking around mos eisley... Probably when Luke and Ben are on there way to the falcon.

It would be truly great to see this be done and would open up a lot of possibilities... Especially the Jedi footage as you say...

fingers crossed and good luck

Anyway now that's out the way...

Lando says "What about those..."

Oh never mind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6s8kpo9IDg

doubleofive said:

 

Of course they used the same physical model.

 

It has nothing to do with scale... It looks completely different.

It has different angles.... it is more obtuse....

And the neck is also thicker and wider on the executor than a normal SD

So far as scale goes in the shot i mentioned of falcon clamped on the back of the bridge.... It looks fairly consistant to me going by the rest of the shots that include the falcon and a star destroyer.... So the falcon is to big then? in all of the film?

Even if the scale is wrong in that shot it has more to do with keeping the audience in tune with what is actually happening rather than lose them in confusion or wether the falcon is exactly the right size.... the shot would have to be a pan out from falcon in terms of this

Look at the scene where the falcon is clamped on to the back of a normal star destroyer bridge if you still think it is a normal star destroyer...

I am sure you will notice the executor bridge is much wider and is the one in the first shot.... It is not a replica of a SD bridge

That is from my memory without looking

I have always thought that the tower always belonged to the executor... I never realised people actually thought that this was a normal star destroyer.

You could change it to whatever color you want it will always be the ececutor to me.

Lando says "What about those colors!"

What colors? Oh those colors that somehow confused people into thinking something much larger in scale was something smaller...

I have just been watching the escape from cloud city... And as Leia says "we got to go back" and then "I know where Luke is"

Lando bursts in with an excuse "What about those fighters!"

What Fighters? Oh you mean the ones we have not seen yet... Ok he could have them on Radar or something but this certainly suggests that we were meant to see Tie fighters before they wen't back to rescue Luke and it probably got cut out for budget reasons or something.

It also makes me think should we see some tie fighters while luke is hanging and a Blast makes him fall down and cling with his legs.

When the falcon returns we could see cloud city burning.. That would really ram home the treachery of the evil empire

Forgive my dreadful art skills but you get the point

When Vader says "bring My shuttle" some distant explosion noise and camera shakes...

Without getting too carried away if you showed a tie fighter destroying a cloud car perhaps the ROTJ celebration footage this would also make the tie fighters feel a bit dangerous instead of just there.

Increase of tension x 10

Something like this would really make it feel dangerous to go back which it does not right now how it is. But as always it's only a train of thought and an idea it started flowing so I went with it.

Are you going to be incorpotating that cheeky stop motion effect?

I thought that was a very good idea...

Blu Ray = Turquoise

I watched a vhs comparison of ESB recently... so far as colours are concerned... The shield generator explosion won't be pink / purple anymore then?

Also I took note will you be using original sound mix of Vader on gantry with Luke or 2004? 2004 has added reverb and wind effects...

Is it something to do with the SD that dissapears behind the executor in the next shot it is facing a different direction?

So the SD that in opening needs to be facing another direction for continuity?

Cheers for the info 005