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28-Jun-2006
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2-Oct-2006
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Post
#226245
Topic
<strong>The &quot;ADigitalMan Special Editions&quot; DVD Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226245/action/topic#226245
Time
Hmm...while the majority of additions I do like, I have to say now that after watching the entire re-edit, and the rescored podrace about three times, the music cues get a little grating. (If I hear that trumpet fanfare one more time...) I think John Williams' job is quite safe.

Removing most of Jar-jar's antics does help, but basically this version flounders due to overstepping the bounds with the score. Oh well.

Post
#226077
Topic
The Academy Award winning editing of Episode IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/226077/action/topic#226077
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr

I wonder what the Spielberg edit was like. Better, probably. LOL
I don't doubt that for a second, even given some of the mixed offerings from Spielberg's camp lately (A.I., Minority Report, & War of the Worlds all three needed editing help, IMO. Color me easily confused, but I'm still not 100% sure I understand all the angles on the 'missing child' plot elements in MR. I only saw it once so I don't know if better editing would've prevented my thickness or not; perhaps I should watch it again, but I'm just not feeling it...)

I come a lot closer in the long run to admiring Spielberg's sense of pacing. I thought 'Always', though missing the boat occasionally, had a very nice flow, and I watched it several times.

Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: zombie84
Originally posted by: THX
From an editing standpoint, SW & ESB are far superior to ROTJ, which suggests Paul Hirsch is the secret weapon.


I think its a matter of the material he had to work with. I think even if I edited it i could still make ANH and ESB better-edited films than ROTJ simply because of the way they were shot.


I don't think I'd agree with that. The 12/76 edit of "The Star Wars" by John Jympson was a trainwreck. It's not as if the film was made of pre-cut puzzle pieces.


Yipes! From the small examples I've seen of Jympson's cut, I'm surprised Lucas didn't have a stroke while watching it. Thank God for good editors, and for GL's determination to see it through to the form released theatrically.

Post
#225963
Topic
OT.com = TFN?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225963/action/topic#225963
Time
Originally posted by: Bissrok
They all seem to accept the midichlorian explination, too. Didn't think anyone accepted that.


I'm sure this has been trampled to death already, but let me add my voice to the chorus in pointing out that Lucas has practically driven die-hard fans mad with his pathological de-mystifying of the OT. To wit: after the PT, the Force is no longer a 'mystical energy field', it's now some wacko sentient microorganisms controlling the 'balance' of good and evil in the universe. Oh, that shows so much faith in divinity, doesn't it?

I have similar sentiments concerning the Anakin/Darth redemption issue, and the replacing of Sebastian S. with Hayden C. at the end of ROTJ in order to 'correct' the continuity or whatever, but I'll post more extensively on that in the appropriate thread. In short, the way it plays out in the SE, Lucas' understanding of redemption is proven to be rather goofy at best, and that really undermines a lot of the power of the epic story's conclusion.
Post
#225197
Topic
Absolute Sandman: Volume 1
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225197/action/topic#225197
Time
Originally posted by: theredbaron
You can get Sandman at your local LIBRARY?!

Damn, I'm jealous of you. No comics or even 'graphic novels' in sight at mine...

Most larger libraries will let you pay a small fee ($10 or so) and get a visitor's card. The trick then would be finding one that's not too far away that has what you want. It's worth a shot, even just calling around and asking them. And it's also a great way to figure out if you really want to buy the books later or not. A good example would be the Charles Schultz Complete Peanuts that Fantagraphics is putting out; definitely nice books, but not something I can afford right now, thus a perfect choice for checking out of the library and seeing first hand if they're good wish-list candidates.
Post
#225029
Topic
The Academy Award winning editing of Episode IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225029/action/topic#225029
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr
All of this reminds me of the chapter in "Empire Building" where it mentions how George went nuts and went into the editing room to do his edit of ESB, and it was so fast and incoherent, that the editors had to go back in and fix it.


That sounds like the last 30 minutes of TPM, which for my money gets the nutso-editing award as far as SW goes -- Ben Burtt and Paul Martin Smith hit frappe' and let 'er rip, no doubt. And we were all so starved for a new chapter that we refused to immediately entertain its true shortcomings. (As many other threads around here have attested.) Oy vey!
Post
#225025
Topic
Absolute Sandman: Volume 1
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/225025/action/topic#225025
Time
I'm sure there are a few fans of Gaiman's Sandman mythos around here, so in case you haven't heard, let me direct your attention to the stunning new 'Absolute Edition' due out November 1, which is to be the first in a four volume set.

If you've seen the Absolute Editions of 'League of Extraordinary Gentlemen', then you know what we're in for. In the case of 'Sandman', volume one is being completely recolored, and the results are simply incredible (scroll down the linked page to view a sample). And of course there will be other assorted goodies to round out the package.

Given my budget I probably shouldn't even be lusting after this, but I am definitely tempted. I think I may just have to convert a pile of vintage X-Men issues into an Absolute Sandman fund!
Post
#224915
Topic
The Official Lucasfilm Response
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224915/action/topic#224915
Time
Originally posted by: Mike O

I just don't undestand it, that's all. Why does he hate his own creations so much? It would be one thing if the studio had edited them like the infamous "Love conquers all" version of Brazil (which, although Gilliam despises it with every fiber of his being, is still available), but he made them...well, some of them. I keep wondering if there is some deep-seated reason for it.


I don't want to sound all wacko here and pin Lucas's aversion to the O-OT on just one thing, but has anybody considered it may be related to his divorce in 1983? His wife left him and remarried, and anybody who's been through a divorce can tell you that even the most agreeable ones can be absolute hell to go through. And since his film-editor wife's thumbprints are all over the O-OT, I am only speculating that perhaps Lucas has been unconsciously attempting to bury that whole association. Look at his complete unwillingness to give us anamorphic widescreen of the O-OT; he doesn't want to spend another dime on it because it's wrapped up with a lot of pain already. Deep-seated is dead on, brother.
Post
#224728
Topic
The Academy Award winning editing of Episode IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224728/action/topic#224728
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
It has nothing to do with guilds, he was simply not an editor. Every director is involved with the edit, making decisions about what to cut and keep and even sometimes when and where to actual cut between shots. Some are more hands off and some are more hands on. Since Lucas comes from an editing background he was more heavily involved in the edit since he was shooting for the editing room to begin with; I don't think he should be considered an "uncredited editor," because if thats the case then pretty much every director should be.


Well said, Z., and I certainly respect your knowledge on the subject, which is far beyond mine. But... since Lucas is considered an uncredited editor on Episode IV (as well as V & VI, at least according to the IMDB) is that not considered reliable info? Or do you just beg to differ?

And I meant to jump up and down and cheer more quickly when you pointed out that Marcia Lucas was George's biggest asset at one time. That was perhaps my secret agenda in starting this thread -- to point out the vast disparity in the quality of the O-OT vs. the PT, due largely (in my opinion) to Marcia Lucas's absence.
Post
#224710
Topic
The Academy Award winning editing of Episode IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224710/action/topic#224710
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84

Thats actually the standard practice for a director. The "first cut" is the directors. An assembly is done by the ediot--basically every single scene with every single dialog bit is edited together, usually producing a very long and boring film that is then whittled down by the director and editor.


Thanks for clearing that up; Burtt made it sound like a Lucas-rule, and if I'd checked up and thought about the responsibilties of the director in making any film, I'd have eventually come to the light.

What muddies the waters with the work done on the O-OT, and to a lesser extent the PT, is that there really are quite a few uncredited hands involved in cutting the film(s). I mean technically George Lucas should have been up there with his wife, and Chew, and Hirsch to accept that Academy Award, but if I recall correctly didn't he resign from all the Hollywood guilds over the placement of his name at the end of the movie rather than the opening, giving us that all-time classic Star Destroyer reveal?
Post
#224671
Topic
The Academy Award winning editing of Episode IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224671/action/topic#224671
Time
According to this interview, Burtt spent so much time doing pre-visualization stuff that in many cases (the speeder chase in AOTC, for example) those early assemblies would be completely his to play with. Then, he'd sit down with Lucas in the editing room, where Lucas (of course) always had veto power over anything. But the point here is that many of the high-action sequences rested initially within the mind's eye of two people: Lucas & Burtt.

At some point on AOTC, Burtt's pre-viz work just naturally bled over into him co-editing the film. And I find it amusing that on AOTC, after Burtt had done his editing of the film, it was only called a 'first assembly'. It wasn't called a first cut until Lucas had combed through it, although Lucas once again gets no credit as an editor.



Post
#224571
Topic
The Academy Award winning editing of Episode IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224571/action/topic#224571
Time
Originally posted by: 20th Century Mark Two words - Ben Burtt. The man is a sound engineer not a film editor, and it shows. If a proper editor with some balls to stand up to Lucas was hired, maybe we would have better movies.


Speaking of ol' Ben Burtt, can anyone confirm if this bit of trivia I just stumbled across is true or not? Ben Burtt originally tested for the part of Luke Skywalker in Star Wars. Something tells me that's just too strange to be true, but hey, I found it on the internet so there's at least a slim chance it's right.
Post
#224447
Topic
The Academy Award winning editing of Episode IV
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/224447/action/topic#224447
Time
I'd like to bring up two points in the old vs. new milieu, and having lurked enough to realize that this site's members are very passionate about film (particularly Star Wars), this seems like the ideal place to post. (I've searched and found no prior thread concerning this, so if this topic has already been covered, please forgive the rehash.)

First, I want to say that the original film editors of the O-OT -- (that would be Richard Chew, Marcia Lucas, Paul Hirsch, and an uncredited George Lucas for Episode IV, winning an Oscar for their efforts; Paul Hirsch, and an uncredited George & Marcia Lucas for Episode V; Sean Barton, Duwayne Dunham, Marcia Lucas and an uncredited George Lucas for Episode VI) outdid themselves on the theatrical cuts of these movies. Nitpicking aside, I think that the pacing and story imparted through these theatrical edits stands the test of time. To this day, they still rock.

However, after the demise of George & Marcia Lucas's marriage, she would no longer have a hand in anything Star Wars-related, so there's strike one -- and a big strike, if you ask me -- against the prequels: One of the original editors is gone, and sorely missed on many fronts. And concerning the '97 and '04 official re-releases, well, I'm not even touching on how it must feel as an editor (much less director) to have your version of the film re-worked and essentially re-tooled for another generation, and then issued in wide release despite how much money it made and how well it all obviously hung together not so very long before. (Mind you, I do believe in fan-edits, though, so I don't know if that makes me a hypocrite or not...)

Second, and more broadly, the pacing of many movies these days seems geared to the short attention span of the average viewer. Compare the first thirty minutes of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope with Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. While ANH does begin with a bang, it quickly settles down to the droids on Tatooine, and brings us slowly into the SW universe. It's almost hypnotic. (My nearly 2 1/2 year old son totally loves that part of Star Wars; he excitedly talks of Obi-Wan giving Luke the lightsaber as soon as the old man shows up. But...when I showed my son the opening slam-bam space sequence of ROTS, after several minutes he looked at me imploringly and said, "Watch Star Wars?" See, even the 2 1/2 year old is getting a purist streak.)

I have such a muddle of points beyond that that I'll stop here, because I honestly don't know where to begin breaking down my problems with the prequels. (Mind you, I've not been fortunate enough yet to see any of the great fan edits of the prequels, but I'm hoping that will be fixed soon.)
Post
#223454
Topic
What Special Edition changes (if any) did people like?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223454/action/topic#223454
Time
Originally posted by: CO
I love the O-OT and will always watch it above the SE, but if Lucas only changed certain effects, none of this debate would exist.

These changes I don't mind:

-The ring around the deathstar

-The new Jawa Sandcrawler

-The new ObiWan Hut

-The expansion of MosEisley without the stupid jawa swinging and making sounds

-The new detailed X-Wings leaving Yavin

-Some new shots in the attack on the death star

Thats it, ESB & ROTJ should have been left alone. Originally Lucas was only going to do Star Wars, he even says it on the laserdisk, but he figured why not make money on all 3 in the theaters? Lucas couldn't do certain things in 1977, and by changing little stuff like this, I wouldn't be complaining of no O-OT.

But of course, he sticks in a bad CG Jabba, changes the Greedo/Han scene, puts in an awful new song in Jabbas Palace, and then puts in Hayden in ROTJ!!!!!!! All changes that had nothing to do with technology back then, just Lucas going crazy trying to change more than he needs.


I completely agree with you about ESB & ROTJ, and I also agree with ADigitalMan that a hybrid version of ANH is probably the best way to go, because certain things about the 2004 release I really like and certain things I really don't like.

I like:

- The more vivid sunset that Artoo rolls toward as he leaves Threepio

- The beautiful purplish-tinted night shot of the sandcrawler sitting still in the desert

- The sandtroopers and all the dewbacks really work for me

- The cleaned-up landspeeder effects look good

- The Falcon blasting out of Mos Eisley looks great

- Some ships just visible trailing through the sky above Mos Eisley

- The new CG X-Wings leaving Yavin IV, and seeing the pilots' heads moving once in space

- Overall, the cleaned up transfer looks great


But...I don't like:

- The extraneous stuff in Mos Eisley: the Ronto throwing the Jawa; that slow, screen-filling close-up of the beast (also a Ronto?) walking in front of Luke's landspeeder just as they're being stopped and questioned. Man, that is so out of place.

- The extra stormtroopers on the Death Star as Han rounds the corner

- The shockwave ring around the Death Star; the original explosion effect worked just fine. I know it looks impressionistic, rather slo-mo and fuzzy, but at that point cinematically and emotionally, it just works. Making it more 'real' is not a good payoff at that point, y'know?

- The inclusion of Jabba--at all--in ANH. Despite the fact that, yes, this Jabba looks and sounds better than any other, and sometimes I waver in my opinion that he's okay showing up there, I always wake up and realize that seeing Jabba at this point is a huge pacing mistake as far as the movie is concerned, and it kills the suspense of the 'price on my head' sub-plot that paid off in ROTJ when we finally get to see Jabba. (The resolution of that plotline was actually one of the more enjoyable things about that movie; well, that and the speeder-bikes.)

- The cheesy 'Han and Greedo shoot simultaneously' scene. The original version is superior in so many ways that I could complain for days about it, but here's the short version: cinematically, it just plays better in terms of the whole scene; and it made so much more sense as far as Han's characterization. Lastly, Han jerking his head unnaturally to the side and avoiding being shot in the face is so friggin' stupid that I can't believe it's now the de facto version of events, at least as far as Lucas is concerned.

I'll stop there, but I'm sure there's a few more points I wanted to include. I'll think of 'em eventually...