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Ocrop27

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18-Nov-2017
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20-Jun-2021
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Post
#1424652
Topic
I am writing a long defense of the entire Skywalker saga, and in the post is a draft of the opening section.
Time

Very good! Really curious about your arguments.

I understand your care in let everything very clear from the start, almost a academic form, but this beginning could be seen as repetitive (not for me). I personally grown to love the PT, after many years of hate and believe time will help many people to find meaning and peace with ST. For me the ST is amazing, TLJ been MY favorite Star Wars movie ever and even if the execution of TROS wasn’t, well, wasn’t what I was hoping for, I do think many criticism is misplaced or in bad faith.

Good luck on your journey my friend!

Post
#1372789
Topic
<em>The Rise of Skywalker</em> - Rewrite Discussion Thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

Wanted to challenge myself slightly and “write” additional scenes for The Rise of Skywalker as we got it, and also make a few slight changes to the overall plot. I’ll probably do a major rewrite eventually, but I just wanted to spit out a few small ideas that I think could have improved the film.

I want to start by addressing the general story arcs for some of the main characters, excluding Rey and Ben, who’ll I’ll touch on later.

Finn:
I think the simplest change would be to add more to Finn and Jannah’s interactions. First of all, if you look at Jannah and her followers, you wouldn’t even know they were former Stormtroopers. I think their costumes could consist of bits and pieces of stormtrooper armor to make that clearer. In Finn and Jannah’s conversation, Jannah could say that her and the other stormtroopers just want to stay and hide, not get involved. But Finn inspires them to join the fight, because it is the right thing to do. Also, when Finn and Poe are on the Star Destroyer, you could give Finn some kind of interaction with one or multiple stormtroopers that sets up something later on in the film.

The film itself brings up a few times that the First Order would begin harvesting more children to man the Sith Fleet, but we never see that have much of an effect on the story, so I would add a subplot of Stormtroopers raiding a village and kidnapping all the children from there as the parents beg for them to not to. Later, we see that the First Order has put Lobot-like implants on them in order to make them totally obedient. The final mission would change from destroying the transmission tower that will allow the Sith Fleet to leave Exegol, to Finn destroying the control tower that controls the children’s implants. So the goal of the final battle goes from “fighting the enemy” to “saving the innocent”. We see various ships rescue the children after the main ship is destroyed. During the final epilogue, we would see Finn and Rose bring all of the children back to their village, and perhaps even stormtroopers. Maybe we could see Jannah and her group interact with a separate group of stormtroopers as they all remove their helmets, realizing that they are finally free.

You could even get that brief sequence with Finn instead, and not have the children subplot, but the harvesting children subplot is mentioned in the film a few times, so I figured I would incorporate it. But since Finn’s journey started with destroying a village, I think it would be nice for his journey to end by helping a village.

Poe:
I definitely felt like Poe’s journey didn’t grow much from the last film, so I wanted to highlight some ideas that I think could help demonstrate Poe becoming a leader. First of all, I would remove the crap about Poe being a former spice-runner. Instead, I think it would be more fitting if Zorri was a former New Republic pilot that Poe flew with that became a criminal after the First Order took over. She could be mad at Poe for leaving the New Republic to join the Resistance, or failing to stop Starkiller from destroying Hosnian Prime. She has lost hope of the Republic ever returning, and has given up basically. But Poe tells her why he still thinks there is hope (maybe even repeats Holdo’s “hope is like the sun” line), and Zorri comments on how Poe has changed from that hothead pilot she knew so long ago. Making Zorri a former Republic pilot also better sets up why we see her flying an Y-Wing at the climax of the film.

After Leia dies and Poe becomes the de-facto general, the Resistance comes to the conclusion that they have to send a message to their allies to join them at Exegol. They comment that without Leia to send that message, it’s unlikely that anyone will have any hope of victory, but Poe says that Leia’s legacy still lives on through them. And with that, we get a new sequence where Poe dons a white cape and records a rallying speech that gets sent out to their allies across the galaxy. Lando says he’ll wait at the rendezvous for anyone who shows up to escort them to Exegol, and then Poe stands on the bridge of the Tantive IV and leads the Resistance to the last battle. So when the big fleet shows up at the last minute, it is because of POE.

In the epilogue, we’d see Poe on Coruscant, meeting with representatives from various worlds and shaking hands with them, signifying the return of democracy in the galaxy.

Chewbacca:
I think Chewie’s character needed a bit more resolution than what we got in the film, so I wanted to add three brief scenes to sort of round out his story in this last chapter of the saga. First, I think it would be nice to get a brief conversation between Maz and Chewie in the first act of the film, where Maz asks Chewie about being relieved of his life debt to Han and how his family must miss him. Chewie growls and Maz replies in a way that implies that he’s staying to help Leia complete her mission, because that is what Han would have wanted.

Later, while Chewie is a prisoner aboard the Star Destroyer, him and Kylo/Ben (along with some of the Knights of Ren) have a brief interaction. Kylo orders him to give up the location of the Resistance, but Chewie remains silent. Kylo tries to search Chewie’s mind, but when he does, Chewie only forces him to relive happy memories from his childhood with him, Han and Leia. This overwhelms Kylo, and when one of the Knights asks if they can kill Chewie, he snaps and says no, then quickly adds that he could still be useful.

After the final battle has been won, we get a brief epilogue sequence of Chewie finally returning home to his family on Kashyyyk.

Rose:
I don’t necessarily think Rose needs some kind of major character arc. I think simply seeing her go from a lowly mechanic in TLJ to an important member of the Resistance in IX would be plenty for her character. But I think there were plenty of ways Rose could’ve gotten plenty of more screen time. First of all, Rose EASILY could have been on the first mission with Finn, Poe and Chewie on the Falcon. Instead of Klaud, who literally has NO HANDS, be the mechanic on the Falcon, this easily could have been Rose.

Another easy fix would have been to get rid of Dominic Monaghan’s character and give some of that extra dialogue to either Rose and/or Billie Lourd’s character. I think there could have been a nice scene between Rose and Rey as they repair the Falcon together. Rose could have had a brief conversation with Finn regarding his desire to save the kidnapped children and/or the other stormtroopers. If Rose stayed back at the base, I think it would be nice for her to communicate back and forth with the gang a bit more often. Or maybe we could cut back to Rose once or twice to see her working on the device Poe will use to broadcast his message to the galaxy.

Honestly, though I think Rose could have easily gone with the gang on their mission. Rose could’ve stayed with the Falcon on Pasana and gotten captured, then later she could be rescued alongside Chewie. On Kef Bir, she could have helped try to repair the Falcon while Rey went ahead to the Death Star ruins. Having Rose tag along wouldn’t have really overcrowded the main plot, or taken away from the “trio” that Abrams and Terrio were desperately trying to focus on.

Hux:
I wasn’t sure what to do about Hux when I started writing this, but the ideas started formulating as I went along. I think the first scene we could get of Hux is him ordering the execution of a would-be Stormtrooper deserter in one of the Star Destroyer hangars. Or perhaps this trooper was the spy that helped the Resistance. Without Phasma to control the troops, Hux’s methods of control have become more desperate. Despite the Stormtroopers all wearing masks, we get the feeling the soldiers seem uncomfortable during this execution. The spy/deserter’s last words could be something like, “FN-218–”

Regarding Hux’s relationship to Pryde, I actually think the roles should be reversed. Pryde should be rather skeptical of trusting this Sith cult, whereas Hux would gladly accept a new armada, and he also revels in the fact the Kylo Ren might have to answer to a new master.

When Finn and Poe are about to be killed aboard the Star Destroyer, instead of Hux being the one to save them, Finn starts trying to talk to the stormtroopers, and it is one of the stormtroopers that has a change of heart then saves them/lets them go. Maybe Finn and this trooper could share a few words before they part ways. After Kylo turns, instead of seeing Pryde kill Hux, Hux kills Pryde and begins taking control of the First Order. We see Hux contact the Emperor and pledges allegiance to him in return to become the new Supreme Leader of his forces.

Hux is on the bridge of the main Star Destroyer during the final battle, and during this battle we see the stormtrooper that Finn spoke to watch from view screens as Finn, Jannah, and the other rogue stormtroopers fight and die to stop the First Order. Seeing that they are losing, the stormtrooper decides to rally the other stormtroopers and storm the bridge of the Star Destroyer. Just as Finn and Jannah as are about to die, the rebelling stormtroopers finally board the bridge and kill Hux, then deactivate the transmitter. Since the stormtroopers are Hux’s army, I think it is appropriate that it is his army that is his downfall. And this might be another nice way to tie up Finn’s arc as well.

Okay, that’s all I got for now. I’ll touch on Rey, Kylo/Ben, Luke, Leia and the Emperor in another post.

Incredible, everything you’ve just said is AMAZING!

I agree with it all. When I saw Poe get shot in the arm, my first thought was that he could not pilot a xwing, but he could still lead the fleet.

Finn deserved to save the stormtrooper and spark their rebellion. I know JB and many other wanted Finn to be a jedi or force user or whatever, but this obsession with jedi been the “main” character is, for lack of a better word, silly. For me it doesn’t matter if Finn was jedi or a Jawa, but for him to face the first order and free his brothers and sisters, would make him the most incredible SW hero ever IMO.

What said about Chewie it’s just perfect. So is what you said about Hux, Rose, Pryde and even Billy lord.

And of course, Ben should survive, Rey should remain a nobody, But if it was essential for her to be the bastard granddaughter of the emperor, then she should have “redeemed” him somehow.

Post
#1360337
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Hey, lurker here!

I was just wondering why do you guys think Ben’s ghost should apear at the end. In my perspective he should have lived, but since he became one with the force I find interesting why they chose not to put him with Luke and Leia. My best guess is that they wanted to leave some doors open, for example, maybe he is part of Rey now? I don’t know… Maybe some dyad thing. Anyway, I personally would prefer him not appearing (actually, I would prefer him alive), but that’s just me.

Going back to my cave now, you guys are amazing!

Post
#1343486
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

I think we both agree that a true Jedi must acknowledge the dark side that exists in them, and they shouldn’t let the dark side control them. But in my opinion, we never really get a moment where Rey acknowledges her dark side.

What I’m suggesting is that Rey can have a moment in the film where she does what is referred to in Jungian psychology as “shadow work”. Sure, shadow work in real life isn’t about shooting lightning from your fingertips, but Star Wars is all about the metaphor. But it’s like you said, one must confront and understand their own dark side, but Rey never does that.

Arguably, Rey start her path to integrate her shadow when she saves Ben. After that she repressed her darkness an try to exile herself on Ahch-To, when Luke reminded that “facing fear is the destiny of a jedi” and that’s her inner fear, the “origin” of her darkness, Palpatine. She faces him and he plays the “you have no choice but to join me” game. When Ben, Rey’s shadow, arrive giving her a fighting chance against her biggest fear. The Dyad, in my perception, is the “prime jedi”, as Rey and Ben struggled with light and dark, not to find a “Grey side”, but to recognize the darkness within and overcome it, two that are one.

Rey Skywalker is the culmination of this, even if the movie does not do a good job in selling it. Maybe Ben doesn’t appear cause he, as her shadow, lives - integrate - with her now (that’s the only way I can justify his death).

That said, I agree with your perception on the force all the way. Very good analysis.

Post
#1193774
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Mocata said:

Ocrop27 said:

A long time ago, in this thread, someone shared a image comparing some frames from TLJ with old samurai movies. Now i can’t find anywhere! Would be nice if someone could point me to that pic, the act of kindness would be appreciated.

Cheers!

Just look up some pics from Ran and Kagemusha. Also go watch them.


Thanks! I already watched Ran, gonna check out Kagemusha.

Post
#1161279
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

I see many people saying that TLJ deconstructs the myth of Star Wars. I think this is a valid interpretation, but not entirely true. In my view this movie tests the myth, yes, it creates terrible (and incredible) obstacles for the heroes, making them question what was once unquestionable. “dead heroes”, as Leia told Poe, reminding us that in fact not everything serves a divine purpose as we usually believe for these films.

But after the dark journey that was the TLJ, we have a much more powerful myth, in my opinion. One that goes beyond the old norm, because it does not abandon what has already been, it just puts to the test and adds the new concepts. Luke in Crait was real, he inspired the Galaxy, saved the resistance and faced his biggest mistake, Ben. He was a great hero, but still only a man capable of making mistakes.

All the characters in this movie have their truths tested and evolve from that. Just as the film itself tests the truths of the saga (as TESB and TPM did before). I agree that this film has a postmodern side, consequent of the time in which we live, but I do not think that it left the myth, only magnified.

I hope I have been clear, I will also leave some very good videos that I found about Star Wars as a whole. The first (in two parts) talks about the myth of the saga, the interesting thing is that the person in the video had not watched TLJ yet and his predictions turned out to be quite accurate. The second is another social analysis of the character Anakin and the Jedi order, worth seeing.

1- https://youtu.be/PkoY5MJ2pxY

https://youtu.be/5xqnQtl13CQ

2- https://youtu.be/tUPD1w78D5I

Post
#1147222
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Ryan said:

Haven’t had time to listen to his review yet. But where is Kevin on the TFA and TLJ?

He loves it! But I think Kevin Smith will always like Star Wars. He has some personal thoghts of things that he would do differently (like pitting Luke actually on Crait) or that did not work for him (Superman Leia), yet he cries at various times and says he has enjoyed the film very much in every sense. I trust him, but I know he will always have the “vision of the heart” when it comes to Star Wars, which is not entirely a bad thing.

Post
#1146742
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

You guys are right, he did fail as a jedi in that moment. I think i meant in the big picture of things, if Ben didn’t wake up, things would be diferent…

The thing is that for me this makes Luke bigger as chacacter and does not “ruins” him in any way.

Side note: This movie makes me see the PT in a diferent perspective. I remember what was like been surprised by star wars. I grow up with the prequels, before realising the movies had a lot of flaws in execution, but not in concept.

Post
#1146725
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

NFBisms said:

Disney Ruined Star Wars said:

This was a quote I read from someone and I agree with it very much:

Sad that in the end people just throw their hands up and say "doesn’t work for you, works for me, oh well."
Good storytelling transcends subjective solipsism. The fact of the matter is that Luke’s actions in this film were not built up to in the previous films at all, and his character is a very severe departure from what he was. He also represents a bold new moral view of this universe, from the makers of this film, which is almost too sad to describe.
Art is an extension of worldview. It taps into what matters most to us. Lucas showed what matters most to him. And what was done to that worldview, and what worldview has replaced it, is chilly in the extreme. I certainly won’t be anxious to show this film to my children, when I have them. 1-6, sure. I do not agree with the values of this film, or the worldview it presents though. It seems cynical, poisonous and nihilistic, especially in light of what came before.
You may enjoy that if you like but there is no denying the shift that occurs. Anyone who denies that shift is very likely blind to the themes of these films.

I don’t want to be that guy, but I’m kind of tired of people overlooking my posts, and I do want to discuss this.

http://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1146676

I don’t believe TLJ is that cynical, and I liked it, and it makes me disappointed that there are seemingly only a few camps that we can exist in in terms of opinion.

I don’t think that the moral values of it are even really that different or worse from or than the OT when you think about it. I think everyone saying that the Jedi are actually evil or bad for the Galaxy because of their dogma are way off base with what the movie was trying to say.

In the end, there’s a hero in all of us. You’re not defined by your failures. Trying to be the hero doesn’t make it so. Forging your own legends is more selfish than it is heroic. Sometimes just doing the right thing is enough to make a difference. All of these, I’d be fine with my children (lol if I had any) learning. I think there’s a lot here that is more important to learn than what the OT can teach, if anything.

Thank you. I agree with everything you said and are saying all this time. TLJ did’t ruin anything, it’s questioning what we know and making even greater. I like old-broken-wise Luke, because shows me humanity. I thought (like many of you probably) he would be a wise, strong and perfect jedi, but not even Yoda was perfect. People say that he would never try to kill ben, and i agree, but the thing is that he actualy did’t. For a second he ignites he’s light saber and think about not letting a second vader exist, but then realised what he was doing. That doesn’t make him fail as a jedi, since we already seen this same scenario in ROTJ where luke choses to not strike his father. What i am saying is that Luke was never a one dimesional character and so isn’t old Luke. He is not perfect, he is no god or messiah, but in the end he goes to help his frieds, like he always did, only more grown and sure of what he is doing.

Just one last thing, i am trying to ignore every body that is saying the ST doesn’t have character development… Seems that people are not watching the thing in front of them…

Post
#1134819
Topic
STAR WARS: Episode I - THE ANCIENT LORE [Episode I Remade /Proj started: 2014] (WIP)
Time

Anakin Starkiller said:

It took me quite a while to figure out the red coloration was from an alarm flashing on and off. At first, I thought it was some failed attempt at recoloring the ship. It’s confusing, and I’d just remove it, given that it doesn’t really serve a purpose. Also, Dooku’s message is too short.

I agree with the alarm flashing, it distracted me for a moment before understanding what was going on.

About dooku’s messege, i dont think its short, but miss placed. We see a stablishing shot of the federation ship, then dooku speak, another quiky stablishing shot of the ship and finaly the bad guys speak. What if dooku’s messege was before meeting palpatine? I dont know.

And great job with the scene! I am very corious to see all of it, very bold edit 😃

Post
#1133115
Topic
Get ready for &quot;Star Wars - Shroud of the Sith&quot;, a radical fan edit of &quot;The Phantom Menace&quot;
Time

I am very new in the community and just read everything in this post, just to find that there is a possibility of not watching this fantastic project (even if is not as good as we think, hands down to the work done). I will keep my hopes up about seen this edit some day and also that OP is fine and healthy!!!