MinchD36

I disliked how they wanted to Force Prequel Trilogy Worldbuilding in the EU after the New Jedi Order i think the EU works better as an Alternative Universe where Lucas Prequels never happened since there are contradictions like Luke Mother, Timothy Zahn Version of the Clone Wars, Sith becoming Force Ghosts, Palpatine Resurrection the Prophecy of the Chosen One did not exist before 1999, Luke Jedi Order letting his Jedi get Married seems like this was something Normal with the Jedi before Lucas Prequels, Corellian Jedi, in Old Video Games like Dark Forces 1 and 2 or Shadows of the Empire the Empire seems to have ruled the Galaxy for more than 19 Years it doesnt look like the Prequels took place in the same Universe as those Games, looks like Ashka Boda could have been the Leader of the Jedi Order before the Lucas Prequels and not Yoda or Mace Windu

Love the 90s Old Star Wars Feel of the Old Dark Horse Comics

Imagine how different Star Wars would be today if the first Star Wars Movie was not a Hit and Lucas was not lucky Splinter of the Mind Eye would have been the Sequel to A New Hope probably characters like Han Solo and Obi Wan would not have appeared in the Sequels since possibly Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness would consider Star Wars a Failure and a Damage to their Careers Leia probably wouldnt be Luke Sister and she would be Luke Romantic interest probably Vader wouldnt be Luke Father Star Wars would not have made Lucas Rich and Star Wars would probably be a forgotten Franchise or Movies of cult except for Sci-Fi enthusiasts like the Original Planet of the Apes or Flash Gordon Movies or other Old Sci-Fi Movies of the time

Marooned Biker Scout said:

A very revealing and factual book.

From the book section of the An Index & Help Thread for ‘The Expanded Universe’ section…

Michael is/was an OT member here, and you can find more of his stuff on here in threads on his book. Seems a cool guy:

The Secret History Of Star Wars - by Michael Kaminski (OriginalTrilogy•com member zombie84)…

^ essential reading on the actual revision-free history of Star Wars - and not the retconned official version from George & Lucasfilm.
 

 
• The Secret History of Star Wars thread on the book - by zombie84 (2007 thread)

• The Secret History of Star Wars - now available in print - by zombie84 (2008 thread)

• The Secret History of Star Wars Audiobook - by ryanvb (2014 thread)

• zombie84’s ‘Secret History of Star Wars’ website (kindly re-hosted by none) - for intriguing information about the book.

• zombie84’s ‘Saving Star Wars’ website - for general information on the history and suppression of the theatrical version of the Original Trilogy films, the debunking of George’s many retcons & claims, and also covers the Special Edition changes. As of Sept 2011.

 
Some of his work from the Secret History of Star Wars and the Saving Star Wars website are also in these pinned OT threads:

An OriginalTrilogy.com Timeline | a history of the site | the why & how it came to be…

George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist…
 

I remember him and and many others getting banned from TFn for just simply talking about the OOT, and George rewriting Star Wars history, back in early or mid 2000’s. TFn mods and members just couldn’t handle it and the mods started purging OOT fans from there, and also people correcting or highlighting George’s new bullshit “masterplan” history. Many ended up on here and other similar websites. There is more on that in An Index & Help Thread for Original Trilogy Discussion.

I love the book and will have to read it again soon. I hoped for a long time that he may do a documentary or video series on it, but I doubt it would happen now. People seems to lap up and worship videos more than books in the past few years.
 

What do you think of the book MinchD36?

Its very amazing i really enjoyed reading it i hope more Star Wars Fans read this Book i want to read How Star Wars Conquered the Universe next the book that the user Bobson recommended

There is a Old Marvel Star Wars Comic with Mandalorians fighting in the Clone Wars it is one of the oldest representations of the Clone Wars with the Mandalorians Shysa Dala and Spar fighting in the Clone Wars did you think Lucas saw that image and saw 3 characters similar to Boba Fett that he decided to make the Clones in Boba Fett Dad Clones for his Prequels Movies? Lucas was fan of Comic Books so it would not be strange to think that he was inspired by that representation of the Clone Wars of the Marvel Comics i also think he was inspired by Tales of the Jedi and Dark Empire Comics for the Prequels supposedly George helped in the creation of Tales of the Jedi

I did not like the Character of Darth Maul yes he looked Cool but he wasnt too interesting except for the Action Scenes I didnt like it how Resurrected him in TCW Show it was very Forced and he was not Original Exar Kun a Character from Tales of the Jedi Comics used the Double Lightsaber first i think Dooku should have been the Villain in Episode 1 Qui Gon should not have existed Obi Wan must have been Yoda Padawan

I think its very interesting it says that George Lucas was inspired by Stories like Dune.Flash Gordon,Akira Kurosawa Movies like The Hidden Fortress,The Foundation Books by Isaac Asimov,The Skylark of Space by Edward Elmer Smith,The Force concept was inspired from New Gods The Source by Jack Kirby,The Lensman Books by Edward Elmer Smith The Cosmic All,Tales of Power by Carlos Castaneda The Force of Others,Galactic Patrol,Darth Vader design was inspired from Doctor Doom by Marvel the Villain of The Fighting Devil Dogs,Darkseid from New Gods

Originally Lucas didnt want to do his own Story but a Remake of Flash Gordon highly recommended Book

I feel like Star Wars was a bit inspired by the Bible the figure of Jesus was separated into 2 characters in Star Wars Anakin and Luke Anakin was born without a Father just like Jesus was born with Mary Qui Gon and AOTC Obi Wan look like Jesus Qui Gon fighting Darth Maul on Tatooine it is very similar when Jesus was tempted by the Devil in the Desert even Maul have Red Skin like a Demon Qui Gon died and resurrected with the Force just like Jesus did Obi Wan Yoda and Anakin become Force Ghosts Order 66 is similar to some Stories of the Bible Luke is also very similar to Jesus Luke Story is like the New Testament equivalent but in Star Wars Luke is like a New Messiah who will change the Galaxy when Luke Rebuild the Jedi Order in the EU with his Jedi Apprentices is very similar to how Jesus was with his Apostles in the Bible even the Jedi Philosophies and Beliefs are very similar to the Apostles Ewan Mcgregor played Jesus in One Movie so what do you think about this?

ROTJ is the most Weak Movie of the OT although i really enjoy watching a Full Jedi Knight Luke it feels like the Story is going very fast as if they already wanted to Finish the Story i think that easy the OT it could have had 2 more Movies to make the Defeat of the Empire feel more satisfying and believable but no they even recycled the Death Star maybe as an act of Nostalgia because it was the Final Story of Star Wars i dont know but i feel like the Ewoks shouldnt have appeared in the Final Movie the Empire won in ESB and they were intimidating Villains but in ROTJ they were reduced as Comedy Act and you cant take them seriously anymore when they lose to the Ewoks i truly wish Irvin Kershner would have directed the Final Movie of the OT im sure it would have been a better Movie than ROTJ was i also wish we got a Sequels Movies of the OT in the late 80s or early 90s i wanted to see more of Jedi Knight Luke and him Rebuilding the Jedi Order is a shame that we never got that at least we have the EU Novels

In the OT Obi Wan said that Yoda was his Jedi Master but he was not his Master in the Prequels
Obi Wan tells to Luke in ROTJ that if Palpatine found out that Anakin had children they would be a threat to him but in ROTS Palpatine knows that Anakin is married to Padme and he will even try to help Anakin in the OT sounds like Palpatine wouldnt approve of Anakin being in a Romantic Relationship also Obi Wan tells to Luke that Anakin was already a Great Pilot that dont sounds like Anakin was a Kid and Qui Gon dont existed the OT implies that Obi Wan was the one who found Anakin

erichf69 said:

Meh. Plot holes-smot holes… It is all in good fun. I love that there are gaps in continuity and plot holes. It would not be Star Wars otherwise. If the original trilogy had plot holes that contradicted themselves, why should the prequel, sequel trilogies and Disney spin offs be any different?

I would actually argue that if everything in the star wars universe actually aligned perfectly, then it would not be star wars anymore.

I think some fans believe that the Prequels Movies fits well with OT Movies i think Lucas dont cared about continuity or about what is Canon that much i like the Prequels Movies but there are many inconsistencies with the OT for example why Obi Wan use his Jedi Tunic when he is hiding? Owen Lars wears a similar Tunic from the Jedi Robes of the Prequels but that is just Tatooine Farm Tunic for some reason the Old Jedi Order used Tatooine Farm Tunic for their uniforms Obi Wan says he hadnt used the name of Obi Wan since before Luke was born but in Kenobi Show they always call him Obi Wan and in Revenge of the Sith too i also think that C3PO and R2D2 should not have appeared in the Prequels Owen Lars doesnt remember C3PO why R2D2 dont helped Luke with the Tuskens if R2D2 can destroy Super Battle Droids like we see in Revenge of the Sith? Captain Antilles should have always been the owner of C3PO and R2D2 in ANH the Imperials are concerned that the Rebellion will have more sympathy in the Senate i thought the Empire is a dictatorship why they let them talk about the Rebellion in the Senate?

Maybe this is not from the Prequels but the Kenobi Show contradicts ANH a lot in there Vader meets Obi Wan again and for some reason Vader says “When i left you i was but the learner but now im the Master” obviously this was a clear reference that the last time Vader saw Obi Wan he was still his apprentice even some dubs versions of other languages of ANH Vader says “When i left you i was but the apprentice but now im the Master” but well Revenge of the Sith also Retcons that quote because Anakin was not longer Obi Wan apprentice but a Jedi Knight during that Movie but i dont care what Disney says they Retcon Vader and Obi Wan Duel original meaning

In ANH Leia hologram tells to Obi Wan that he had served alongside his father in the Clone Wars and it sounds like she is introducing herself to him for the first time in the Kenobi Show Leia meets Obi Wan and she is with him for a short time

In the Kenobi Show Luke is trying to escape from the Inquisitor Reva and for some reason Luke dont remember her during ANH and Luke says that he had never seen a Lightsaber before Obi Wan showed him Luke father Lightsaber Luke was not a Baby during Kenobi Show he was a 10 years old Kid also why Obi Wan give Luke the Lightsaber in which Vader helped the Empire exterminate the Jedi? Anakin should have had a Red Lightsaber in Revenge of the Sith Movie

C3PO tells to Luke that he didnt know Leia very well that they were owned by Antilles but in the Kenobi Show C3PO and R2D2 appear

In ANH Obi Wan says that he is too old to be a Jedi and want Luke to go with him in Alderaan but in ROTJ Retcons this and Palpatine is a old man like Obi Wan but he continues to be very powerful in the Force in the Prequels Movies Count Dooku is like 80 years old and he is still powerful and even can do long jumps with the Force its like Yoda and Obi Wan they just didnt wanted to help Luke to defeat the Empire

When they talk about the Clone Wars in the OT and old Marvel Comics and old Star Wars Novels it doesnt sound like they talk about the Clones being Boba Fett Dad Clones it seems that the Clones were just Regular Humans who Cloned themselves or Clone Beasts i like more that version of the Clones than the Boba Fett Dad Clones from the Prequels Movies version

Tarkin tells Vader that he was the last of his religion Tarkin doesnt know that Palpatine was a Sith and a Force User like Vader? maybe not but what about the Inquistors? in ANH alludes that Vader is the only Force User in the Empire i think originally the Emperor was not a Force User

When Vader and Tarkin refer to Leia as “princess” it sounds like Alderaan is a monarchy and Leia father is a King

I feel like Lucas cared more about what is commercial,merchandise and toy figures than the continuity of the Movies and Disney is not different i think for that reason he make the Clones being Boba Fett Dad Clones because without Troopers figures Prequels toy figures would not have sold well

in ANH Owen and Beru talk about Luke father and they dont talk about him as if he was Darth Vader in the scene where Luke is arguing with Owen about his admission to the Academy Owen and Beru talk as if Luke father also liked to have adventures if Vader is indeed Luke father why does Beru talk so happily about him knowing what Vader does to the Galaxy? i think that dont make sense

In ANH Obi Wan tells to Luke that his father was a great Pilot and a great Jedi Warrior i feel that originally Obi Wan had Two Apprentices Luke father and Vader,Vader betrayed Obi Wan and Luke father died thanks to Vader and Obi Wan felt guilty about it even some old Marvel Star Wars Comics support this idea

Han Solo dont believe in the Force or the Jedi how he cant if he was a Kid during the Clone Wars? he never watched the Holonet or what? in the Prequels the Jedi were part of the Galaxy Government and always appeared publicly

I think the most serious contradiction is Leia mother issue Luke tells to Leia what her mother was like? and Leia says she was sweet but sad i dont think Leia was lying when she said that to Luke but Lucas dont cared or forgot about this when he make Padme not surviving in ROTS now we have to pretend Leia had a bad memory and even worse in the Kenobi Show Leia knows she is not Bail Organa real daughter so the argument that Leia was referring to her adoptive mother no longer makes sense

Obi Wan is supposed to be in his 50s in ANH and he looks much older Owen and Beru are younger than him and they still look very old in just 19 years later after the Clone Wars

Well i like the Prequels Movies but i wish they did not contradict the OT so much

Servii said:

We’ve ascended beyond OT purism now. We’ve gone up to 1977 purism.

But in all seriousness, I think something is lost when you only view Star Wars 77 in isolation. It’s neat to look at how far the characters come from the start of that movie to the end of RotJ, and the two sequels recontextualize the original in a way that adds more depth to the story imo

I would also consider myself as an 1977 purist i find the idea that the Emperor is not a Force User or a Sith fascinating that there are no great Force Powers like Force Ghosts or Force Lightning

the only change i would make to the 1977 movie is that Obi Wan no longer disappears or he becomes a Force Ghost i would make him died naturally killed by Vader in battle well maybe this wouldnt be Star Wars anymore but i find the original concepts of the 1977/ANH movie fascinating maybe in another Timeline Star Wars is more different

What changes would you make to the Disney Sequel Trilogy?

i would have made the Sequels before the Prequels movies with Mark Hamill Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford still being young i would make these Sequels come out during the earlys 1990s

Luke would be a Jedi Master by having several Jedi apprentices but not in big numbers like Prequel Jedi kind of like Jedi Academy EU Books with him having a small group of Padawan Jedi apprentices

Palpatine does not resurrect i dont really care about the Chosen One Prophecy of the Prequels but i wish there was not Sith in this era i want Sith to be rare also not Han Solo Son turning to the Dark Side the Villains would be something similar to the First Order being inspired by the Empire but they are not technically the Empire the leader of this organization would be a character similar to Thrawn

Luke Jedi Order dont follow Prequel Jedi rules they can get married they can have attachments i would like Luke to having a Son

the New Republic dominates the Galaxy they are not destroyed like Disney Sequels and they help Luke to fight with the new Villains

Han and Leia also have Kids and they train with Luke

What other changes you would make to the Sequels?

I think all Star Wars fans should watch Dune is very similar to Star Wars but the world in Dune is more complex is like a more mature version of Star Wars highly recommended movie even if it is very long

What changes would you make to the Prequels movies?
For example i would make the Clones not being Boba Fett Clones and that Jango would not have any relationship with Boba i liked the original story of Boba Fett more with him being a Random Bounty Hunter with the name of Jaster Mereel

i would make Anakin more older i would look for actors who are more similar to Sebastian Shaw and Alec Guinness i like Hayden Christensen and Ewan Mcgregor but sometimes i feel like their versions of the characters dont look anything like the OT versions

Owen Lars would have a greater role in the Prequels it seems that he knew Anakin and Obi Wan too well and in Lucas Prequels he doesnt even know Anakin and Obi Wan that good with they almost practically strangers to him i would make Owen Lars to be a former Republic Soldier or something like that and be friends with Anakin and Obi Wan

the Empire will rule for more than 19 years in the OT Han Solo does not remember the Jedi believing them to be a Myth so they must have disappeared for more than 19 years ago in Lucas Prequels everyone knew the Jedi with them being authority figures

Tatooine would not be a special place and would not appear in my version of the Prequels that would not be the place where Anakin born it was just a Random Planet in the Galaxy

i probably wouldnt have created a Sith character like Dooku and Darth Maul the Clones would be the Main Villains and these would be more similar to the Yuuzhan Vong

Yoda would not be a Jedi Grand Master or a Warrior he would just be a Random Jedi who survived the Purge

Anakin would not be a Chosen One and he had a Father like anyone else he was just a powerful and smart Jedi

What changes you will make to the Prequels?

In 2029 TPM will be 30 years old and aged excellent and in 2027 a New Hope will be 50 years old and still would be a Classic the generation who Grow Up with the Prequels will soon be Adults with Kids and Grandchildren and will remember the Prequels as Classics just like the OT i have a feeling there will be a lot of nostalgia for the Prequels in the coming years

Luke rebulding the Jedi Order was the best part of the EU unlike in Disney Canon in there Luke Jedi Order is destroyed in a Few Years i envisioned that Luke would restore the Jedi Order after the movies
So the post ROTJ EU is the closest thing to my vision

Servii said:

Yoda knows that Leia is in danger and tells Luke to complete his training and sacrifice her if necessary

Here’s the thing, though. Yoda doesn’t actually know if Leia’s in danger. The future is always in motion, and Luke’s vision of her and Han in danger could have easily been nothing more than a hypothetical vision of a possible future.

But yes, they definitely didn’t plan in any concrete way for Leia to be the other. Maybe it was an option they were considering at that point, but George hadn’t decided yet. I heard a rumor once that they were considering having Wedge turn out to be the other, but that always seemed like a stretch.

Leia being Luke sister was definitely a Retcon
it wasnt planned as Vader being Luke real father Luke Real Sister was going to play an important role in the Lucas first version of the Sequels Lucas envisioned Star Wars as a series of 9 or 12 movies.

I understand the Prequels movies had flaws but the supplemental content like the EU Clone Wars books videogames the Republic comics Tartakovsky Clone Wars and TCW CGI show make it worth it for me and the Prequels movies now turning 20 years old i feel more nostalgic for them the CGI is amazing for their age i think they aged well and they have a retro touch as well as modern

I think there is a contradiction in Empire Yoda knows that Leia is in danger and tells Luke to complete his training and sacrifice her if necessary then when Luke leaves Yoda says “There is Another” i doubt that the original intention is that Yoda was referring to Leia because Luke was going to rescue her we all know that originally Luke sister was not going to be Leia and she was planned to appear in a future ROTJ sequel or maybe in ROTJ i think in the end they decided to make Leia Luke sister to avoid further complications or for marketing reasons but you cant deny that Leia being Luke sister was a last minute Retcon and it was forced

There were also rumors that that the other one was Boba Fett but i doubt it because he worked for the Empire so it is most likely that Yoda was referring to Luke real sister

AOTC is 20 years old this year the Prequels represent a lot of nostalgia for some generations as the Original Trilogy was at the time
how old were you when TPM came out? i was 1 year old my fanaticism for Star Wars really started when i watched Tartakovsky Clone Wars series when i was 4 or 5 after seeing that show i started watching all the movies and reading the Old Dark Horse Clone Wars Republic Comics even if i like the OT more the Prequels they still have a special place in my heart i remember watching Revenge of the Sith in theaters when i was 6

What are your memories you have with the Prequels?

I remember the first time i saw Empire as a child i was surprised that Yoda was the green creature that Luke spoke with
i imagined Yoda being an old human Jedi Master like Obi Wan and the real Yoda his companion how did you react to the Yoda reveal?

Adapt some aspects of the EU into Live Action like Mara Jade Thrawn Luke Jedi Order and the Yuuzhan Vong maybe not tell the same story from the EU but use those concepts