The warmer look is probably a result of the fade correction attempt done by the scanner. I would love to hear some feedback later down the road in regards to color balancing when I get the RAW files to work with.
Damn shame about the 4 track mix. Out of curiosity would it be possible to send it to another scanner and have the audio captured, possibly for a lot cheaper since the video has already been scanned?
Yes, it is possible. Issue is though, it would mean over $450 would have to re-collected to re-rent the print and send it to someone for just that audio alone. Apparently, the current scanner does still have some of the necessary equipment to transfer the sound, but it’s defunct a motor.
Can’t wait! By director’s cut do you just mean the uncut version thats been on the DVD and Bluray releases? Or is their new footage in there?
Yeah, that’s what I meant, it’s the uncut version. A bit splicey at times so a little bit of footage is lost but it’s certainly the full cut.
Just wanted to inform everyone that I’ve been able to have a peek at the scan preview.
The colors look quite nicely recovered (apparently the print was originally red), though unfortunately, the 4-track mix is not capturable as the scanner sold off the necessary equipment to do so some time ago much to my dismay. Thankfully the mono optical is still a step up from the blu-rays though it could use a bit of cleaning. The print is also the director’s cut it seems, so although that alternate cut is lost to history, at least it means this’ll be a more complete Argento experience.
I would like to note though that I still require $225 to cover the rest of the scan though so any donations would be greatly appreciated to help me complete this preservation endeavor.
I have finally gotten around to making a proper release of the scan, so those of you who are interested, shoot me a PM as I’m not sure how long I’ll be able to keep it available.
Apparently a print is being sold on eBay—provided you have the money to pay for that psycho pricing: https://www.ebay.it/sch/m.html?_odkw=GHIBLI&_udlo=99&_ssn=hokutoshinken&_sop=15&_udhi=7000&_mPrRngCbx=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=GHIBLI+feature&_sacat=0
Except in the places where some of the films were digital noise reduced to remove grain, i honestly don’t see anything to be gained from a release print.
Typically I find that, more often than not, prints have a fairly different color scheme than what is presented on home video. That said, I cannot say what Spirited Away is like in comparison as it is a more modern print, but anything is possible quite frankly.
Finally got around to making a money pool as the total tallied-up pledges have reached past $450 point, so I hope I can garner further interest from others sometime in the future with preview incentives. Furtherly I am aware of some individuals willing to increase their donations in the future hopefully as well as me paying out-of-pocket in the worst-case scenario.
Those of you who are interested in chipping in, please shoot me a PM! Thank you all in advance!
So unfortunate news on the matter of the auction: I did not win (having set the max bid to a little over €300). I guess someone out there very much wanted that print and set their maximum to God knows how much (it could’ve been over €500 for all I know, which is well out of my out-of-pocket budget).
So what does that mean for this thread? Well, for the time being there won’t be a scan on the horizon, though I do intend to hunt down another print of the movie to see if that can be scanned in the stead of this German one (as I have several leads).
In the meantime though, I guess I’ll just go back to focusing more on Inferno ( https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Inferno-Dario-Argento-1980-35mm-Scan-opportunity-WIP-Help-Wanted/id/85379 ) until I hear something promising to update this thread with.
What aspect ratio is it in?
Assumably, the print isn’t hard matted, which would allow for a 1.33 open-matted presentation in theory. However, I would most likely release the scan to 1.66 matted as Kubrick intended back in the day.
UPDATE: Actually it is hard-matted it seems
Quick first note, meant to write 1971 not 1980 for the year for clarification.
Anyways, it has come to my attention that an auction for a 35mm print of A Clockwork Orange has shown up on eBay recently.
Given the amount of interest that people had with Gweedo16’s Italian Eyes Wide Shut thread, I thought I’d give making a thread here a shot and see if it’d be possible to collect donations before the auction ends in 7 days.
35 mm Film
trotz sinem Alter guter Zustand und Farbe
German light tone
good condition and color despite its age
As you can see, it’s a German print, however it should be fairly easy to sync up the original English mono track once it gets scanned. Also, according to the seller’s description translation, the print is in good color, which is not something you see every day for a movie of this age (as all other listings I am aware of from the past are all faded red). Furtherly, I can confirm that the movie was apparently uncut in Germany ( https://ssl.ofdb.de/view.php?page=fassung&fid=1061&vid=121522 ), so thankfully that’s not something to worry about.
Currently, the auction is sitting at €36~ and will no doubt spike before the end. However, the good news is since it’s overseas, the scan rates will be cheaper than any of my typical preservations, going at €30 per reel rather than $5 per minute.
What this means is, in short, the scan itself will merely be €240. The total cost will no doubt be much higher as one will have to account the costs of shipping and a hard drive and the print itself, but it’ll all likely still be cheaper than one of my usual attempts.
The main thing at the moment is to be able to secure enough donations to ensure that the print can be bought for preservation (since all of the aforementioned costs can be worried about later as they’re not on a deadline). By my guess, the auction will likely be at least €300~, though for all we know, luck could be on our side and will only end up needing €150~.
So in short, if anyone is interested in helping to secure this print, please pledge within the following 7 days!
Dario Argento’s Inferno. The weird semi-sequel to Suspiria that opted for a more pastel, painterly palette over the overt, neon-drenched look. It’s certainly an interesting movie to watch through—though a bit slow in some places. Personally, and this may be considered blaspheme to some, but I actually kind of enjoy this movie over Suspiria for being more atmospheric with its stronger emphasis on the mystery of witchcraft (it’s not perfect by any means, but I have a soft spot for it).
But here’s the schpiel about it: None of the home releases in the past some years have ever managed to really figure out what is the proper color scheme. DVD Exotica sort of best lays it all out where each release seems to have its own altered color grade.
(Anchor Bay | Blue Underground | Camera Obscura)
There was an online article delving a bit into these color differences and how apparently some people say that the movie theatrically looked more saturated and bluer and whatnot than the DP supervised Camera Obscura release. Here’s a quote from it that I find notably relevant.
Danish Argento expert Thomas Rostock said:
Having plowed through several VHS, Laserdisc and film-print incarnations of this the director’s most accomplished visual achievement (seeing this on the big screen by way of the excellent UK print in circulation around 1995 was truly an astonishing experience for me. Totally blew me away in a way SUSPIRIA couldn’t even begin to match), I must say that look of the Anchor Bay DVD of 2000 actually fares much closer to Romano Albani’s intended look than the new MGM/FOX. Romano Albani along with Argento worked hard to achieve a fuller, more lush look than SUSPIRIA using in particular the two new lighting color gels named Rose and Deep Blue introduced into the market in 1979.
In short, Rose and Deep Blue are the governing colors of INFERNO. However, the MGM/FOX transfer suppresses exactly these two colors to the point oblivion (Rose) and to a dull, faded hue (Deep Blue) […] If one is aware of literally the hours it can take to light with different color-gels on a film-set, it is especially disheartening to witness MGM/FOX’s negligent attitude towards the intended color-specific look of INFERNO. But perhaps even worse is the fact that this is the only transfer making its rounds to all corners of the world commercially through MGM’s cost-efficent licensing and will stand as a misrepresentation of the real beautiful and haunting color-scheme that is at the very heart and soul of INFERNO. One can voice many a fault about William Lustig’s AB/BU releases, but on the visual, color-correctional side of things, he has yet to make mistake.
Since the VHS day apparently, companies kept taking liberties with the movie’s color grading for some reason, and the fact that it’s 2021 and this is all still so up in the air is just absolutely ridiculous! I have my own suspicions on how it’d likely look (with it being akin to this German trailer scan: https://youtu.be/TO4PX8VZ09I ), but that’s just my personal guesswork which is no better than anyone else’s.
As such, I’ve been digging for a while to see if I can get my hands on an actual print of the movie to scan. Thankfully that day has come because I have managed to negotiate for a 35mm Italian print!
Now, here’s the deal. I have been told the print is slightly faded but still has decent color, and given past results I have seen with my go-to scanner, I am sure there will be no problems in fixing it later down the line. Furtherly, given the movie came out smack-dab in the middle of that accursed transition period between the 70s and 80s, finding a print that isn’t red is kind of a miracle.
On a further note of bonuses, I have been told that this print is also in stereo which is nice given the Italian track has only been released in mono previously. I also have strong suspicions that the Italian theatrical cut is actually different from the Director’s cut we all know today (got it on good word from someone who’s seen a print back in the day), so I’d love to confirm this concretely if this is the case.
Anyways, in terms of pricing, I already have enough money pledged to me to cover for some of the baseline fees involving the print ($370~), and at this point, I only need further funding to actually pay for the 4K scan itself ($530~) and possibly for a hard drive later down the line ($150~).
I’m only taking pledges at the moment, but once I can get in at least an extra $100 pledged, I’ll see if I can get the process started and get previews made for donors in that reel-by-reel delivery like I usually do.
So, are there any Italo-horror / Argento fans here willing to help out? I’m also curious to hear what some of y’all’s opinions are of this movie in general since I’m wondering if I’m the only one who really dug this movie—even with all of its flaws.
Info for this project?
Currently, plans are being made for a hard drive to come in towards my way.
I already have most things ready in advance, though I will likely have to make some minor tweaks to the color grading of the RAW scans before rendering out a proper release sometime in the future.
Make that $90 to go 😃
Managed to raise $50 overnight, so here’s Reel 3 available for donors too!
Thanks to a sizable donation from a benefactor on FanRes, I only need $120~ to cover the rest of the scan!
In the meantime: Reel 2 rescan is up for donors!
So mixed news.
As it turns out, the rescan will require extra funds than I initially thought, so the end goal will be around $1,100 (about $100+ from my initial goal).
However, that being said, despite the price hike, I would certainly say that the investment is worth it as it ends up hiding even more damage than I initially thought having seen more preview material (from reel 2), making even some of the more heavily scratched areas look near-pristine.
So although there’s still a bit more fundraising needed, I can at least guarantee the results will look far superior.
Funding is still needed to finish off this scan, however, I am hoping this little tease of the HDR rescan is an enticement to donate to help cover the final costs.
Merry Christmas Everyone!
Previews of the remaining two reels are available for donors now!
As you can see, even through the uncalibrated preview colors, practically the entirety of the climax showcases photochemical blues that are missing on most home releases.
Anyways, the good news is I was told that $70 should cover the remainder of the scanning fee, which is a fair bit lower than my initial goal estimation (though further funds might be necessary to cover shipping or some other unexpected fee so I’m keeping the estimate the goal the same for now).
Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
Previews for Reels 2 & 3 are now available for donors (check the link from last time)!
Once again, preview colors are not fully representative of how it’ll look in the end, so bear with the funky desaturated look for the time being, please.
I’d also like to inform everyone that there are some hopes to get this print re-scanned sometime in the future on a higher quality setup sometime in the future, so we can all look forward to that what improved results that may bring.
Keep in mind though, donations are still needed to fully fund the scan, so please do if you haven’t already!
So it’s been a while since the last update.
Long story short is I was waiting on some stuff, and that wait time sort of got extended. I was first waiting on an SDU4 mix from the optical, which thankfully has been made available to me not long ago.
I’ve also been very recently working on a new proper color grade for the scan since the previews were done by someone else from the scanner’s end since they have access to the hard drive. And while I am glad those previews were made, I admittedly am not a huge fan of how the colors looked on them (muddy black level and looked too warm overall, resulting in unneutral highlights and tealer blues). Thankfully though I was able to gain access to a handful of raw frames to work with in Resolve and produce a new grade.
Doubt it’s perfect (especially since I recall someone mentioned the lightning looked cyan on their screening) but I’m at least more content with how some of it looks. I am asking a more recent 70mm eyewitness on the matter about the grade’s “accuracy”.
However, I still don’t have the hard drive with the raw scan files myself still (had to ask to be sent these frames over the web for color testing), so I won’t able to produce a proper MKV release for some time until Hellraiser gets funded (since both scans will be sharing the same drive), so do help with that if anyone’s interested: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Hellraiser-Clive-Barker-1987-35mm-Scan-Opportunity/id/79222
Happy Halloween Everyone!
Would like to inform donors that a Reel 1 preview is available to see now!
Send me a PM if you’re interested.
Even though the color grading is not finalized (won’t be until I get my hands on the RAW files at the end of it all), it’s clear right off the bat that there are far more photochemical blues overall than the Arrow BD and looks very stylish in many shots.
Here’s a little test to show what it looks like with a bit more adjustment (though again, not at all final)
It’s definitely been reminding me as to why I’ve been wanting to pursue this movie for a while now.
Anyways, with all that said, this project is still only half-way to getting the funding needed to get the whole print scanned, so please donate if you’re interested and want to check out the first reel!
Since Big Trouble In Little China is nearly finished ( https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Big-Trouble-In-Little-China-John-Carpenter-1986-35mm-Scan-opportunity-a-WIP/id/75450 ), I thought I’d start talking about the next preservation on my roadmap. A movie that got me started into fan restoration work in the first place: Hellraiser
Here’s the nutshell. One day, I stumbled randomly across a post on the Blu-Ray forum about how the Hellraiser 2K restoration put out by Arrow looked practically nothing like its 35mm counterpart (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=15869547&postcount=562 ).
I recently managed to get my hands on a well-preserved archival print, watched it, took some scans, made sure they were representative of how it looked correctly projected and compared it with the Arrow Blu-ray.
Be aware that I really liked the Arrow Blu-ray despite the peculiar grain, and didn’t have any problems with the color timing… When I watched this print, I couldn’t believe my eyes. This film when viewed on film looks absolutely incredible, very stylish, quite a lot of blue lighting. I had no idea this film looked that good, home video has just done it a complete disservice.
One thing I will say is that this print was not grainy at all, even in low-light conditions there was nothing out of the ordinary, I wasn’t even aware of it most of the time.
When I flicked through the Arrow disc not long after, it looked flat and orange compared to what I had seen, it looked ugly and noisy. In the scene where the cenobites appear at the hospital, the room in the print appeared more blue with Pinhead’s skin also being bathed in blue which helped draw attention away from the make-up, on the Arrow the room is more neutral and the make-up job on Pinhead really stands out. Also in a scene near the end (see last picture below), in the print, there’s clearly blue lighting in the background and the characters directly in front of the camera are covered in a warm glow from a fireplace (IIRC), yet on the Arrow, everything is again flat and orange.
And having seen his and his screencaps, I can never unsee just how horrid the Arrow master really is in comparison. All of the stylish blue flair and whatnot is just dull, neutral, and lifeless! It’s very much akin to how Fox treated BTiLC.
This led me down a sort of train of hobby work for a while over on FanRes ( https://forum.fanres.com/thread-2497.html ) where I tried to regrade with Arrow BD with those five 35mm stills above as well as a gallery of other stills provided from the same guy below.
The results were mixed admittedly. Although I did come out with a release of the regrade, I was never truly happy with the results for a variety of reasons.
The first big reason was that I was brand new to the community and I was still trying to figure out how to approach this project. The long story short in that regard was TomArrow being basically my mentor as he watched me continually struggle trying to piece together basic stuff (though I am very thankful that he was a very patient person and stuck around). Since then though, I’ve learned some newer techniques and stuff that’d helped me a lot back then.
The second biggest reason was that there was a lot of educated guessing involved which I didn’t like to do since I had no idea how the colors were supposed to be handled for scenes outside of those stills and I couldn’t tell what was fading or photochemical color grading more often than not. Although there is a laserdisc that does respect the 35mm color grading, I have no means of ripping it even if I could get my hands on it.
On top of all that, there was still the weirdly harsh grain issue in the BD that I had no way of really fixing easily without accidentally DNRing detail. At the end of the day, it was a bit of a mess that I hoped to revisit someday.
Fast forward a few years later when I stumbled onto some celluloid-pertinent opportunities, I noticed that this movie was on the books with a low-fade high-quality print.
A perfect opportunity to finally be able to see how the whole movie looked in 35mm for the first time and in 4K no less!
Calculations had roughly estimated the project costs to be $1000 to cover rental, shipping, scanning and a hard drive.
As usual, I’ll start with pledges, though I’ll make a PayPal Pool if it looks like we can overcome the initial cost hurdle.
Still need donations? I’d love a copy of this.
Yes actually. In the final stretch. I only need like $50~ to cover up the final expenses of a new hard drive I bought and shipped for the raw scans.
Reel 6 of 6 is up on Mega!
The scan’s now fully funded for, however, I still need funding to cover for the hard drive, so do please donate!
Reels 4 and 5 are now up in the Mega folder!
Want to mention that although the wear of the print is definitely coming through with the higher prevalence of scratches, the scan can still serve as a perfect reference for regrading the Fox or Euro master!
So again, if you want to help see this project through and check out the previews now, help donate today!
According to this screencap at Caps-a-Holic, https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=11844&d2=11843&s1=116732&s2=116718&i=12&l=0, it appears that the image on the 4K disc comes close to the 35mm scan.
I disagree, the print appears to be both darker and have far less green than the UHD (though the preceding bullet might be resultant of HDR tonemapping).
Reel 3 preview has been released with Reel 4 impending soon (Donors can check it out in the Mega folder link I provided)!
To check out these previews, please help donate to the project!