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LordPlagueis

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24-Dec-2017
Last activity
4-Aug-2019
Posts
58

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Post
#1290994
Topic
Best Explanation Of Mary Sue Issue
Time

IsanRido said:

I don’t like the ST myself, but the Mary Sue argument is very silly and indicative of one’s attitude towards women. “We don’t hate women, we hate poorly written characters” doesn’t apply when a person defends the prequel trilogy over these films.

The Mary Sue argument is not indicative of a personal attitude against women. That is ridiculous. A person can think that Rey is a Mary Sue without thinking that all other strong female characters are Mary Sues.

For example, in Wonder Woman, Diana is a goddess and a trained Amazonian warrior. Although Diana kicks ass, she is relatable because the screenwriters endow her with a flaw: Naïveté. A fish out of water, she is unacquainted with human customs and believes the death of Aries will end all war forever. Her weakness leads to growth and makes her interesting. Although Zeus sculpted her from clay, Diana seems far more human than Rey, who seems more like a cardboard cutout than an actual person, flaws and all.

Compare Luke’s first meeting with Han Solo to Rey’s. Han immediately casts doubt on Luke’s piloting abilities. “Who’s going to fly it, kid! You?” On the run, Han says, “Traveling through hyperspace isn’t like dusting crops, boy!” Unable to decipher the controls, Luke asks, “What’s that flashing?” In contrast, Rey immediately one-ups Han. When Rey fixes the Falcon, Han is awestruck. Then he offers her a job. See the difference?

Post
#1289201
Topic
The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film
Time

ray_afraid said:

LordPlagueis said:

moviefreakedmind said:

I personally would say that the droid assembly line sequence in AOTC is the worst sequence ever to appear on screen in a Star Wars film. It’s long, bland, inconsequential, and ultimately completely forgettable. Do you agree? What would you say is the worst? The Ewok movies don’t count, the Clone Wars animated movie or TV shows don’t count, the Holiday Special doesn’t count, and Rebels doesn’t count. We’re only counting the live action films: episodes I-VIII and R1.

The droid assembly line scene was no worse than the trash compactor scene in A New Hope. Both signify the “Belly of the Beast” stage in Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey.

They both signify the same thing, sure, but the scene in AotC is indeed the worst/most cringe inducing scene in the saga. The trash compactor scene isn’t bad or cringey at all.

Fair enough. You are entitled to feel that way. Lots of fans hate C-3PO’s antics. I think other scenes in Attack of the Clones are far more cringeworthy, and I would not even rank it as the most cringeworthy episode. In fact, when I saw Attack of the Clones in theater at age eight, the droid factory scene was my favorite. Not that my childhood self was the world’s best film critic.

Post
#1288934
Topic
The Force Awakens - Ridley's Edit
Time

Sounds perfect, with two minor caveats:

  • The moment when Rey one-ups Han Solo at fixing the Millennium Falcon is cringeworthy. Rey can be talented without outshining original trilogy characters.
  • Ending The Force Awakens before Rey finds Luke is the equivalent of ending A New Hope before Luke blows up the Death Star. Finding Luke is the central goal in The Force Awakens, just as destroying the Death Star is the central goal in A New Hope. Every complete story must answer whether the hero’s quest ends in success or failure.
Post
#1288793
Topic
The Last Jedi: Legendary (SPOILERS)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

LordPlagueis, thanks for clarifying. If one moved the two Snoke/Hux scenes back to back it would have to imply a timejump since there’s a change of location.

But it is only a minor change in location: They are still on the same ship.

The ‘Luke mourns Han’ scene was reinserted where the deleted scenes reel has it, and with the footage available I’m not sure how one could go from “Where’s Han” immediately into him crying. Rey is in the room at first, then suddenly not, and Luke processes things rather suddenly.

As soon as Luke learns of Han’s untimely death, he would force Rey out of his hut for a moment alone to process his emotions. That would be apparent from the shot of Luke closing the door next to the shot of Rey’s eyes peering into the door slot.

I think as things stand Luke putting up a front and retreating allows him to cry in private about what’s built up, and cutting directly to Leia implies Han is at the center of it for both of them.

But he would be too emotionally overcome to put on a front.

Post
#1288761
Topic
The Last Jedi: Legendary (SPOILERS)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Combining the scenes you suggest combining would be odd choices if you ask me, and I can’t see them feeling right.

Your edit inserts the deleted scene “Luke mourns Han” right after Luke says “You don’t need Luke Skywalker,” and then asks, “Do you think I am going to walk out with a laser sword and face down the whole First Order?”

Watching the scenes in this order implies that Luke is grieving over his own fate – namely, that he cannot live up to the legend of Luke Skywalker – not grieving over Han’s fate. That in turn implies Leia is grieving not over Han’s fate but over Luke’s failure. The order of scenes affects their meaning.

The film would feel more natural if Luke mourned Han’s death immediately, instead of waiting until after he finishes an unrelated conversation with Rey, which implies the news was not immediately impactful.

Moving the deleted scene of Luke requires moving the scene of Kylo Ren and Snoke. The dialogue flows more smoothly if the two “tied on a string” remarks follow one another.

“They can’t get away, Supreme Leader. We have them tied on the end of a string.”
“Tied on a string indeed, General Hux. Well done. The Resistance will soon be in our grasp.”

Also, I dislike how your edit splits Rey’s line “I’m not leaving without you” from the scene where she follows Luke around.

Post
#1288684
Topic
The Last Jedi: Legendary (SPOILERS)
Time

I would recommend the following changes:

  • After Hux says, “We have them tied on the end of a string,” cut to Kylo entering the throne room and Snoke saying “Tied on a string indeed.”

  • Move the deleted scene of Luke mourning Han’s death to right after he says, “Where’s Han”

  • Cut the Tie Fighters shooting the bridge and Leia blasting into space and flying back

  • Cut Finn and Rose’s subplot and Poe and Holdo’s subplot

  • Reinstate the caretaker scenes and Luke’s third lesson

  • Replace Holdo with Admiral Ackbar in the hyperspace Kamikaze attack (borrowing shots from Ivan Ortega)

  • Re-edit Finn’s sacrifice so that an AT-AT shoots down Rose, Finn tries to sacrifice himself, then an AT-AT shoots him down.

Post
#1287773
Topic
Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm (Finished!)
Time

Omni said:

I think some people are going to make a hybrid version of V5 and V6, because a lot of people agree with you on those 2 points, and in that the droid factory sequence should be kept out of the movie. So maybe look out for that! 😉

I might make my own edit to accomplish those changes and a few others. As for the droid factory scene, it was a post-production replacement of an unreleased deleted scene in which Jango Fett captures Anakin and Padmé. Although it is imperfect, the capture of Anakin and Padmé is necessary to the plot. Otherwise, they willingly walk to their doom.

Post
#1287756
Topic
Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm (Finished!)
Time

Omni said:

LordPlagueis said:

Hal 9000 said:

Well, here’s my full raw list I’m working from:

[Possibly remove audio for line “I’m not sure how much longer I can hold off the vote, my friends”

Readd the last part of Jar Jar introducing the jedi at Padmé’s HQ

Fix lack of audio channel 6 from 9:41ish to 12:06ish, perhaps just lazily copying channel 5]

[Put in “easy Jedi business go back to your drinks

[Try to remedy the abrupt scene end after “But I am grown up - You said it yourself”]

Include abbreviated Dex’s Diner, and original zam death line

[Place lines from Jamila scene about staying in the lake country to refugee transport scene]

[Fix the audio during landing platform deleted scene which abruptly goes to 2.0 stereo; the beginnig and end of the scene are okay]

Consider suggestion about ep2 continuity error from using lake house to establish Padme’s family house

[Consider using Mala’s version of Anakin leaving to look for Schmi, which has no dialogue]

Undo Dooku’s modified line of “a thousand more systems”

Replace 3PO’s line about never having flown before.

[Maybe reorder scenes like Q2 has it for where the droid factory used to be]

[Put in Yoda saying he is going to go visit Kamino]

[Put back in Mace sneaking up on Dooku in ep2]

[Look into TMTYC’s recreation of the Jedi reveal in the arena from AOTP]

There is a shot of Anakin in pain from lightning that should be moved away from right before Padmé in the sand to just before leaping to save Obi-Wan

Fix video glitch in middle of end credits

C-3PO’s line about never having flown before is ties into The Phantom Menace, where he says, “I can assure you that they’ll never get me onto one of those dreadful starships.”

He cut that line from that movie for his fanedit “Cloak of Deception” v6, while also adding a line of 3PO comparing some of his life experiences with R2’s, which gently implies some backstory to 3PO.

‘The Approaching Storm v6’ is a sequel to ‘Cloak of Deception v6’, not the theatrical TPM, I’m assuming.

Okay, I take that back. I would make two changes to V6:

  • I would cut the Anakin-Padmé “Don’t look at me like that” exchange. The transition was already seamless in V5.

  • I would cut the Dex Diner’s scene entirely and borrow the audio of Zam’s dying words from The Phantom Editor.

Post
#1287746
Topic
Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm (Finished!)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Well, here’s my full raw list I’m working from:

[Possibly remove audio for line “I’m not sure how much longer I can hold off the vote, my friends”

Readd the last part of Jar Jar introducing the jedi at Padmé’s HQ

Fix lack of audio channel 6 from 9:41ish to 12:06ish, perhaps just lazily copying channel 5]

[Put in “easy Jedi business go back to your drinks

[Try to remedy the abrupt scene end after “But I am grown up - You said it yourself”]

Include abbreviated Dex’s Diner, and original zam death line

[Place lines from Jamila scene about staying in the lake country to refugee transport scene]

[Fix the audio during landing platform deleted scene which abruptly goes to 2.0 stereo; the beginnig and end of the scene are okay]

Consider suggestion about ep2 continuity error from using lake house to establish Padme’s family house

[Consider using Mala’s version of Anakin leaving to look for Schmi, which has no dialogue]

Undo Dooku’s modified line of “a thousand more systems”

Replace 3PO’s line about never having flown before.

[Maybe reorder scenes like Q2 has it for where the droid factory used to be]

[Put in Yoda saying he is going to go visit Kamino]

[Put back in Mace sneaking up on Dooku in ep2]

[Look into TMTYC’s recreation of the Jedi reveal in the arena from AOTP]

There is a shot of Anakin in pain from lightning that should be moved away from right before Padmé in the sand to just before leaping to save Obi-Wan

Fix video glitch in middle of end credits

Why are you including Dex’s Diner? It is implausible a diner owner would be able to identify a toxic dart, and cutting the scene improves the pacing.

C-3PO’s line about never having flown before is ties into The Phantom Menace, where he says, “I can assure you that they’ll never get me onto one of those dreadful starships.”

Post
#1287696
Topic
Emanswfan's Prequel Trilogy (Ep II Opening Clips Now Available)
Time

emanswfan said:

MTHaslett said:

I’m really intrigued by how this new o utline may work. I want to take a stab at how it might go-- a stab which I know must be incorrect.

Can you correct the following, emanswfan?

OUTLINE:

Start on Kamino, with the arrival of Obi Wan-- discovers clones and Fett. [Or do we start with Obi Wan and Anakin sp litting up as Anakin leaves with Padme?]

Anakin, taking Padme to Naboo, goes into hiding-- then has dreams of his mother.

Obi Wan fights Fett, follows Fett to Geonosis and gets caught (?)

Padme and Anakin go to Tatooine and bury his mother, only to receive the message that Obi Wan has been captured.

Together, Padme and Anakin fly to Geonosis and also get caught. They meet Obi Wan in the arena and get rescued by Yoda and a Volunteer Army…

Then Dooku escapes after cutting off Anakin’s arm.

A clone army assembles itself to go off and hunt down Dooku.

Anakin and Padme get married.

And most of the opening twenty minutes or so is either cut or sprinkled in at the end?

It is a strong idea to start far into the action like this. I think I must have things wrong here though. This is a cool notion, as I understand it so far…

[edited because I got confused about whether you start on Kamino or Geonosis]

I should probably edit the first post, the movie starts on Geonosis.

The film starts directly with Anakin and Padme going to save Obi-Wan (preview to come soon).  I’ve edited this scene to feel like an opening (myseterious, no talking).  I delete the entire Droid Factory sequence (because of the stupidity and that it would make the new opening not feel like an opening) and replace it with the two deleted scenes, Padme swaying Dooku and Anakin and Padme on trial.  I delete there [sic] love but leave a lighthearted friendship they’ve had developing between TPM and ATOC, which grows naturally into their love.  The arena scene ends with yoda and the rest of the jedi saving them.  The “clones” are shown, however in this version the clone armor is just Republic armor the clones will just put on since they work for the Republic.  What then follows is a hugely revised version of what used to be the opening.  Padme has been in danger for a while and the new attempt is the final reason to convince them to go to Naboo.  The clone army has been being made by the order of the Jedi council for years, waiting for it to be approved.  Obi-Wan goes to check on the clones and discovers the assasin was Jango Fett and the basis for the clones.  The dark side had clouded the jedi from knowing this.  The narrative for the most part plays out the same, but when Obi finds out they need more help to defeat the new order of battle droids, they finally succeed in getting the clones and set up for attack with the others.  The movie ends the same for the most part.

I’m probably forgetting some details, so what I just said might sound weird.

Weird is an understatement. It sounds as if you are cutting the climax in half, moving half to the beginning, and leaving half at the end. Why would the Sith create a clone army if there already was a Republic Army?

Post
#1286915
Topic
The Last Jedi- Full Movie Re-Edit
Time

ForceGhostRecon said:

Youtube comments are getting pretty crazy. Ivan has evidently hypnotized an army of TLJ-haters into adamantly defending his edit… one guy (a self-proclaimed monetary contributor to the edit) said he has ‘seen fanedits before and most are sh!t’ but ironically, thinks Ivan hit the ball right out of the park. yikes…

Maybe the comment was satirical?

Post
#1286914
Topic
The Last Jedi- Full Movie Re-Edit
Time

StarkillerAG said:

LordPlagueis said:
The Hux monologue is a thousand times better than the Hux prank call, which turns a menacing fascist general from The Force Awakens into a bumbling idiot.

I’d prefer if the Hux scene was cut completely. Hux was menacing in TFA, we don’t need to re-establish that.

I thought the "activating magnetic bombardment was a nice touch.

This isn’t Star Trek though, it’s fantasy. Not everything needs an explanation.

I am not against the Finn-Rose subplot, but I hated the Maz Kanata hologram action scene and DJ’s stuttering.

I hated a lot more than that: Rose fangirling over Finn, the wacky casino, the unnecessary war profiteering message, freeing the animals and not freeing the slaves, Phasma returning only to die again, and BB-8 in an AT-ST.

These are fair criticisms.

Ivan Ortega’s cut of Finn’s sacrifice was far preferable to the theatrical version. Stopping Finn from sacrificing himself endangered the Resistance and dishonored her sister, who similarly sacrificed herself. Although I prefer edits where an AT-At shoots down Finn, this is an improvement.

Why can’t an AT-AT shoot Finn down? Other edits have shown how easy it is. Including footage of Finn dragging Rose back to base just asks more questions than it answers.

An AT-AT shooting Finn down is a better idea, but either idea is better than the theatrical version.

The mention of spies is necessary to explain why Holdo never reveals her secret plan.

No, it isn’t. Poe’s recklessness destroyed half the fleet and got him demoted. That should be enough of a reason why Holdo never tells Poe the plan.

I am surprised anyone would complain about Ackbar replacing Holdo in the hyperspace kamikaze. Holdo never had a character arc: She refuses to reveal her secret plan for no reason and then dies. If an established character sacrifices himself instead, the scene carries a greater emotional weight.

It’s less Holdo’s arc and more Poe’s arc. Holdo is a plot device that teaches Poe not to let his emotions control his actions. If Holdo, a character that Poe thought couldn’t be trusted, sacrifices herself to save the fleet, it emphasizes that lesson. Ackbar taking Holdo’s role in the suicide run is just blatant fan-service that sacrifices storytelling.

There is no correlation between sound military strategy and suicide bombing. Am I supposed to believe that if an admiral sacrifices herself, her military strategy was wise and her doubters were foolish? In terms of military strategy, Holdo’s plan was to evacuate in emergency craft without light speed–instead of in escape pods with light-speed–to a planet in plain sight of the First Order.

Poe’s relationship with Holdo conveys the value of obedience to authority. Holdo’s hyperspace kamikaze conveys the value of self-sacrifice. These are distinct themes, so the latter sequence cannot enhance the former sequence thematically.

The screenwriters should have killed off Poe when he and Finn crash-landed on Jakku. In The Force Awakens, Poe is so insistent that they retrieve BB-8 one moment only to desert the planet without retrieving him the very next, contradicting his character motivation. When Poe shows up after seeming to die earlier in the film, I could tell that J.J. Abrams rewrote the script to satisfy Oscar Isaac instead of to tell a good story.

Post
#1286646
Topic
Star Wars Episode III: Labyrinth Of Evil (Finished!)
Time

I wish you would keep “I am the Senate” and “You were the chosen one! It was said you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!” I thought that those lines worked well. In particular “I am the Senate” is a fitting historical allusion to Louis XIV’s declaration “L’etat, c’est moi.”

Post
#1286514
Topic
The Last Jedi- Full Movie Re-Edit
Time

StarkillerAG said:

I just watched this edit a few hours ago, and I mostly agree with the people who have already given their thoughts, but I’m going to try an in-depth review of this edit, explaining my thoughts on specific changes.
The opening scene:
I don’t like how Ivan edited the prank call into a Hux monologue: it feels unnecessary. I’m glad that the dumb “wipe that nervous expression” joke is gone, but I liked the BB-8 plug joke that Ivan also removed. The added footage in the bomber scene is interesting, but unnecessary. The voiceover saying “activating magnetic bombardment” to explain how the bombs fall is also unnecessary. Same thing with the added footage of Kylo on a star destroyer.

The Hux monologue is a thousand times better than the Hux prank call, which turns a menacing fascist general from The Force Awakens into a bumbling idiot. In theaters, I laughed at the “wipe that nervous expression” joke but not the BB-8 plug joke. I thought the “activating magnetic bombardment” line was a nice touch.

Luke on the island:
Changing Luke’s character to be more of a wise old Jedi is an interesting idea in theory, but it was executed poorly. The new Luke lines sound nothing like Mark Hamill, and they’re way too quiet. Luke’s character also drastically changes between scenes. In some scenes he’s a wise old Jedi who encourages Rey’s training, but in other scenes he’s a cynical hermit who wants the Jedi to end. The training montage is also an interesting idea, but there isn’t enough existing footage to make it work.

This is my biggest problem with the edit. The new Luke lines sound awful, and Luke’s character acts inconsistently from one scene to the next.

Finn and Rose:
I’m surprised this subplot is still in the movie. There are many edits that cut it completely, and it works great. I like the trims Ivan made to this subplot, but they aren’t enough to save it. The Finn and Rose scenes are also way too far apart: There are many parts that are just Luke and Rey scenes edited together, and just when I get interested in Luke and Rey’s story, the movie cuts back to Finn and Rose. Having a TIE fighter shoot Finn down just asks more questions than it answers. Didn’t Rey and Chewie shoot all the fighters down? What happened to Rose? Who was that woman Finn dragged back to the base?

I am not against the Finn-Rose subplot, but I hated the Maz Kanata hologram action scene and DJ’s stuttering.
EDIT: As well as the on-the-nose political dialogue and the Fathier chase.

Ivan Ortega’s cut of Finn’s sacrifice was far preferable to the theatrical version. Stopping Finn from sacrificing himself endangered the Resistance and dishonored her sister, who similarly sacrificed herself. Although I prefer edits where an AT-At shoots down Finn, this is an improvement.

EDIT: I agree Ivan Ortega’s edit created multiple inconsistencies here: (1) Rey draws away all Tie-Fighters, but one shoots down Finn. (2) Rose is never shot down. Despite these logical inconsistencies, I still think his edit is preferable to the theatrical version. But I prefer edits where AT-ATs shoot down Finn.

Admiral Ackbar:
The new Ackbar scenes weren’t executed well at all: the rotoscoping is painfully obvious, and the new Ackbar lines sound awful. Ackbar introducing Holdo adds nothing except for a line about Imperial spies which is never mentioned again. Ackbar replacing Holdo in the suicide run is just pointless fan service, and it hurts Holdo’s character arc if she just happened to be on one of the transports that got blown up instead of going out in a blaze of glory.

The mention of spies is necessary to explain why Holdo never reveals her secret plan.

I am surprised anyone would complain about Ackbar replacing Holdo in the hyperspace kamikaze. Holdo never had a character arc: She refuses to reveal her secret plan for no reason and then dies. If an established character sacrifices himself instead, the scene carries a greater emotional weight.

Post
#1286045
Topic
The Force Awakens: The Starlight Project - <strong>WORKPRINT RELEASED</strong>
Time
  • Replace the original crawl with one which more eloquently establishes the universe and action.

Ideally, the crawl should explain the new Republic is wary of militarism because the clone army destroyed the old Republic, which would clarify the political situation.

  • Insert new scene at night where Rey imagines the island.

Although I like the tie-in to The Last Jedi, I question whether this is necessary.

  • Remove Finn’s wanton destruction of his fellow Stormtroopers as he escapes the hangar.
  • Alter Finn’s cavalier attitude about shooting the TIE fighters, resorting to firing only as a last resort.

Nice. This is more consistent with his character.

  • Remove Han asking for Rey’s name, since he should already know it from their time on the Falcon. Cut his lines indicating that they are at the castle to get a ‘clean’ ship. Instead, they need Maz’s connection to Leia to get them to the Resistance.

Instead, I would cut the scene when Rey one-ups Han at fixing the Millennium Falcon. That was painful to watch.
Han and the Death Gangs were tracking the Millenium Falcon, so it is only logical the First Order was tracking it as well. Hence the need for a ‘clean’ ship. Funny, I thought Han already had a connection to Leia.

  • Also, insert previously deleted footage of Rey alone in the Rathtar infested hallways to the Force vision to emphasize the dramatic effect of Finn’s sudden absence.

But Finn is not absent: He is present in the castle. All other shots are of significant events in the lightsaber’s history or in Rey’s life.

  • Insert shots of Star Destroyer to Maz’s Castle instead of Hosnian destruction, along with SirRidley’s new music.
  • Insert matte painting of the front of the pirate ship Meson Martinet in the shot where Rey says ‘I’m leaving’, indicating that she intends to leave with Finn. Alternately, create a new shot of the front of the ship from Rey’s point of view.
  • Insert shots of R2 beginning to search his backup files for the map on BB8’s suggestion.

I doubt it would take R2 that long to find the map.

  • Remove Leia’s lines which refer to Snoke by name. Cut the scene so that she ends with ‘that’s when I lost you both’, and the officer arrives saying ‘General…’ without mention of the reconnaissance. This helps make it seem like events in the movie are spaced farther apart.

Nice touch.

  • Add a dream sequence before Rey wakes up in the interrogation room, consisting of her exploring Luke’s island and maybe even seeing his face, proffering him the lightsaber.

This not only spoils the ending of The Force Awakens and the beginning of The Last Jedi but also turns Rey into an even more overpowered character with the gift of prophecy.

  • Extend Rey’s interrogation with Kylo directly accessing parts of her mind. He sees Finn playing at the game table on the Falcon (taken from that cut moment of confusion), and the closeup of Han from the map scene. As she gains power, she first bombards Kylo with images of Han, then accesses his mind and learns of his worship of Vader and his insecurity.

In the original trilogy, characters’ thoughts are never visually depicted onscreen. When Luke sees a vision of his friends in pain, no reused footage of Cloud City or the torture of Han Solo appears onscreen. That is for the best. It lets the audience use their imaginations and focus on the moment. The jump from Rey’s thoughts to Kylo’s thoughts is sudden. The Falcon’s game table is an unnecessary callback.

  • Kylo’s conversation with Snoke is bereft of Hux’s intrusion. Snoke does not learn the location of the Resistance Base in this film.

Then it would seem odd that The First Order suddenly knows the location of the Resistance Base at the beginning of The Last Jedi.

  • Split Rey’s escape attempt into two parts, with her failing to trick the guard at first.

I love this idea. Rey’s character would be so much more compelling if she were to experience failure and learn from her mistakes.

  • *Crop Chewie out of the shot with Leia after the battle.

If possible, I would prefer an edit where Leia hugs Chewbacca instead of Rey.

  • Remove the final journey to Luke’s island. This material is instead repurposed as the dream sequence preceding the interrogation. The final shot of the film is the Falcon jumping to Hyperspace.

This feels unsatisfying. The whole plot revolves around finding Luke Skywalker, and the story must answer whether this quest ends in success or failure or else it is incomplete. Imagine if in order to create a cliffhanger George Lucas ended A New Hope right before the Death Star blew up.

The cliffhanger is a misunderstood concept. Even The Empire Strikes Back - a story with a cliffhanger ending - answers whether the story ends with success or failure: It ends with Luke traumatized, Han in carbonite,
C-3PO in pieces, and the heroes barely surviving to fight another day. Even a story with a cliffhanger ending must answer whether the plot ends in success or failure.

Post
#1286028
Topic
Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm (Finished!)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Peter Pan said:

Why not keep the whole garage scene, with the exception of Anakin saying that he killed the women and children?
This way you set up the plot for ROTS, keep Anakins conflict and regret about the slaughter and Padme doesn’t appear to be a hypocrite, because there is obviously a big difference between killing innocent children and the murderer of your mother.

He kills children in both instances. Neither are more or less innocent than the other, and Padme does not care in AOTC. There’s no way I’m reinstating that scene.

It is possible to save Anakin’s confession if you cut every line in italics:

INTERIOR: TATOOINE, HOMESTEAD, GARAGE - DAY

PADMÉ comes in with a tray of food and a blue drink. ANAKIN is standing at a workbench, repairing a part of the speeder bike.

PADMÉ: I brought you something. Are you hungry?

ANAKIN does not look up from the bike part.

ANAKIN: The shifter broke. Life seems so much simpler when you’re fixing things. (as PADME puts down the tray) I’m good at fixing things…always was. But I couldn’t…(stops working, finally looks at her) Why’d she have to die? (sighs) Why couldn’t I save her? I know I could have!

ANAKIN walks offscreen. He continues to walk away from PADME.

PADMÉ: Sometimes there are things no one can fix. You’re not all-powerful, Ani.
ANAKIN: Well I should be! Someday I will be… I will be the most powerful Jedi ever! (turning back to her) I promise you, I will even learn to stop people from dying.

PADMÉ: (concerned) Anakin…
ANAKIN: It’s all Obi-Wan’s fault. He’s jealous! He’s holding me back!

ANAKIN hurls the wrench across the garage. It clatters to the floor. ANAKIN turns away from PADME walks across the garage. PADMÉ stares at him.

ANAKIN: …and not just the men, but the women, and the children too.

The camera zooms in on PADME.

ANAKIN: (offscreen) They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals…I hate them!

ANAKIN’s lip quivers, then he turns away. He goes to the ground. PADME watches him. She sits by him.

PADMÉ: To be angry is to be human.

ANAKIN: (shaking his head at her) I’m a Jedi. I know I’m better than this.

ANAKIN starts to cry softly and PADME puts her hand on the back of his neck. She strokes his head as he cries.

Post
#1283932
Topic
The Worst Scene/Sequence in Any Star Wars Film
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

I personally would say that the droid assembly line sequence in AOTC is the worst sequence ever to appear on screen in a Star Wars film. It’s long, bland, inconsequential, and ultimately completely forgettable. Do you agree? What would you say is the worst? The Ewok movies don’t count, the Clone Wars animated movie or TV shows don’t count, the Holiday Special doesn’t count, and Rebels doesn’t count. We’re only counting the live action films: episodes I-VIII and R1.

The worst moment was Rose preventing Finn from sacrificing himself to save the Resistance so she could kiss him and say the most cliched line ever written: “That’s how we’re gonna win: Not by fighting what we hate but by saving what we love.”

The droid assembly line scene was no worse than the trash compactor scene in A New Hope. Both signify the “Belly of the Beast” stage in Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey.

Post
#1283741
Topic
Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm (Finished!)
Time

Octorox said:

So I know this will be an unpopular suggestion, but have you given any consideration to bringing back the Dex’s Diner scene with trims similar to what Cathy Fulcher-Baker did for her edit? clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtBAiWYWR6w&t=10m26s

The reason I ask is that I think this would allow you to include the scene from the theatrical cut where Mace, Yoda and Obi-Wan discuss Anakin, rather than the alternate “deleted scene” version with only Mace and Obi-Wan as you do now. While it may be slightly stronger dramatically, I think the visual effects in that deleted scene stand out as particularly unpolished. Additionally, Mace’s line that Obi-Wan “must have faith” in Anakin seems dissonant with his character in Revenge of the Sith, who clearly doesn’t trust him.

The Dex Diner scene is unnecessary. Why would a diner owner be able to identify the origin of toxic darts?

The visual effects in the Obi-wan and Mace scene are at least as strong as the hallway scene.

Post
#1283323
Topic
Star Wars Episode II: The Approaching Storm (Finished!)
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Thanks, LordPlagueis, for taking time to interact with the edit and propose potential improvements for V6.

You’re welcome. A few further suggestions:

  • The opening crawl asserts a thousand solar systems “have revolted”
    and calls Count Dooku “mysterious,” but the separatists have not yet declared war and the characters know who Count Dooku is. I would suggest revising the opening crawl:

A decade after the invasion of Naboo, the galaxy is fragmented. Thousands of systems have threatened to rebel against the Republic.

This separatist movement, under the leadership of the treacherous Count Dooku, has overwhelmed the Jedi Knights, guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy.

Senator Amidala, the former Queen of Naboo, is returning to Coruscant to speak against a radical security measure which would inflame tensions and engulf the galaxy in a civil war…

  • To pan down instead of up, The Approaching Storm reverses the shot of the fighters and the cruiser before rotating but neglects to reverse the shot of the fighters and the cruiser after rotating. The rotation should change the relative vertical orientation of space.

  • The dialogue in the chancellor’s office flows unnaturally. Palpatine interrupts Mace Windu to express confidence his negotiations will succeed. Then Mace Windu finishes his sentence. Then Palpatine asks Yoda if he thinks it will come to war. But if Palpatine is confident his negotiations will succeed, why would he ask Yoda if he thinks it will come to war?

Perhaps reorder the dialogue:

PALPATINE: More and more star systems are joining the separatists. Do you think it will really come to war?
YODA: Hmm, The Dark Side clouds everything. Impossible to see, the future is.
WINDU: There aren’t enough Jedi to protect the Republic. We’re keepers of the peace, not soldiers.

Or cut the exchange between Palpatine and Windu.

  • When Anakin and Padmé leave Coruscant, Padmé tells Captain Typho “Take good care of Dormé,” but Dormé replies “He’ll be safe with me,” as if Padmé had told her to take good care of Captain Typho, the opposite of what she said.

  • I might have mentioned this, but there is an abrupt musical transition in the “Encouraged to Love” scene when the line “You’re exactly the way I remember you in my dreams” is cut. I would either restore the line or isolate the vocals and rescore the scene.

  • There is an unpleasant musical key change in the Obi-Wan and Mace scene where their dialogue is trimmed. I would separate the audio from the video and cross-fade the clips in Audacity to correct this.

  • It would be ideal to include Obi-Wan’s Jedi starfighter taking off, flying through the atmosphere, attaching to the transport ring, and taking off into hyperspace. Then fade to black, transitioning to the freighter arriving on Naboo.

  • Would it be possible to include the dream sequence but regrade a shot of Padmé sleeping from Revenge of the Sith in order to appear as if she is sleeping next to him? Octorox’s edit is similar.

  • Cutting Anakin’s murder confession altogether implies that either (1) his actions were justifiable or (2) his actions were unjustifiable and he feels no remorse. Either alternative ruins Anakin’s moral complexity as a protagonist. If Anakin’s reference to slaughtering women and children like animals is cut, the love story is still believable. See L8wrtr’s edit of the scene.

  • Since the clones are genetically modified to be less independent and more docile, it is more logical for the Jedi to issue military orders to the clones.

  • Would it be possible to mute the battle droid’s “Roger Roger”?