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LeoneNut

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20-Jun-2006
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29-Feb-2024
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166

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Post
#267904
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Update:
Have put this on hold for the last week, was involved in a car accident a couple of days ago. I'm ok apart from some minor back pains. The car is a total wreck and unrepairable. On the flipside I have this project to keep me busy and keep my mind from worrying about insurance payouts, buying a new car etc.

I'm pretty sure I've missed some more shots from the AC and EC, and will be doing some more detailed comparisons at the weekend. I have smoothed over the cracks in the soundtrack in a lot of places. Hopefully the whole thing seems a bit more professional
Will hopefully have version 1 finshed very soon. Once I have this locked down, I will start on creating version 2 with the alternate intro and Faerie Dance scene.



Post
#266655
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: andy_k_250

So, using the script fed straight into TMPGEnc, you won't have ~90 GB avi files floating around? Is that why it's better?

I have a project where I may need to do some 4:3>16:9 upconverting, as well as some cropping (so that everything has the same aspect ratio), and I am not very technically skilled here yet. (All I have is Womble and DVD-Lab Pro). I definitely prefer GUI software to scripting. I am just trying to figure out the easiest way to do this part of the process. Thanks for any help.

Maybe this comment would be better made on in the help forum. Sorry to get off-topic.


Yeah that's the main reason, I once had an almost 200GB uncompressed avi file of a 2 hour movie

I believe there is a GUI program called DVD Rebuilder (which dark_jedi mentioned earlier), that will convert to anamorphic for you without AVISynth knowledge. I remember people mentioning it in a thread about making the 2006 Star Wars DVDs anamorphic, have a search for it. If that doesn't work I can send you some example AVISynth scripts to do it, ADM pretty much nails it in his guide though.

Anyway back on topic.... yeah that Legend project I was doing.....still progressing....

Zeromancer - Thanks for the info, will check it out. Wonder if it converts matrixed surround information properly.
Post
#266618
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: andy_k_250
Dark Jedi,

What method do you use to convert 4:3 to 16:9? Is it the same used in ADigitalMan's guide?

Does anyone here know an alternative to that? Thanks!


Actually ADM's guide is what got me into this stuff in the first place. I had investigated a few years ago, and found it way too convoluted to do this. Now the programs are so much better.
I think ADM converts to anamorphic by doing an AVI (compressed via lossless huffyuv) from an AVISynth script in VirtualDubMod. Then using this AVI in TMPGEnc to create the Mpeg-2 file. This was the way I was doing it, until I discovered that you can feed the AVISynth script straight into TMPGEnc (which saves a lot of time and disk space).
Post
#266454
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
[Edit] I went and had a look at this scene. What a mess those guys did with the AC. You can tell they had lost control and were just snipping haphazardly as they went. The extra footage cuts off so abruptly when Lilly says 'Jack, I'm sorry' and this causes her lips to be out of sync when she says 'Are you afraid to kiss me?'. The DC works much better, but for the missing footage. I'm not sure what to do here. I think I would add the extra footage but keep the DC 'Are you afraid to kiss me". It's a difficult one; the only other option is not using the extra footage, but I kinda like her 'Jack, I'm sorry'.


I'm afraid there is still a sync issue with both lines, not easy to fix for the second line as Goldsmith's music starts up at this point. Actually I'm not quite convinced she says "Jack I'm sorry" looking at her lips. You may be right and they cut her speaking, and moved the audio.
I have an idea for making the scene flow a bit better, I could move a fairly redundant extra shot of gathering clouds and move it between those shots, and see how that works. Then have the audio match up better for the line, going into the gathering clouds footage.

Either way I want to keep the extra footage
Post
#266421
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
ZakDrizzt - Did you find anything in the end?

I tried various things to improve the Intro footage, one especially called RemoveGrain. But my results usually resulted losing too much detail. I don't think there is much more I can do with this to be honest.
It will look out of place with the pristine footage, but will be like a workprint version anyway.

Haven't touched this for a couple of days, but am close to finishing Version 1. I need to sort out problems with the music in a few places, the extra shot of Lili and the gown merging, the shot of Jack whistling to the bird, and some more places I forget.
It's very hard to extend a scene by one or two shots, then somehow make the music flow without moving sound effects or dialogue out of place. Editing the video has been so much easier.

Three changes I have made are open for discussion:
1) The shot of Lili kissing Jack "Are you afraid to kiss me?" uses the AC version which is slightly longer and shot with the camera a little further away. I can see no difference between this and the DC version as Jack doesn't respond to Lili in exactly the same way.
The reason for the change is this shot follows on from Lili bending down and saying "I'm sorry" much better.

2) Blunder's line "Adios Amigos" has been removed and an extended scream inserted. It was starting to irritate me as much as it does for other people

3) There is an odd flip dissolve between Lili and the Unicorn being captured, and Jack, Gump & Screwball finding Brown Tom unconscious. Sean pointed this out to me, and I agree with him that it seems out of place. This has been replaced with a more normal fade out/fade in to denote passing time.
Post
#266270
Topic
Help With Subrip
Time
Originally posted by: pittrek
I see.
you have to use some subtitle editor (like Subtitle Workshop - free) to do the same "edits".


Further to pittrek's advice,
If you use Subtitle Workshop, it doesn't like big mpeg-2 files being used as a preview for some reason. It causes timing issues with the subtitles (some are in synch, some not).
What I do is do an export the project out of Womble again but to a VCD mpeg-1 file, and use this file as the preview in Subtitle Workshop instead. The subtitle file should then synch fine with the exported mpeg-2 file you already created.
Post
#265900
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
Originally posted by: LeoneNut
The Alternate Intro footage is interesting because it isn't quite 2.35:1, I may crop off a little from the top and bottom or add small black bars to the sides. I tried cleaning this up, but isn't much of an improvement unfortunately.


Last year when I was following the Thief and the Cobbler thread, I remember a guy called Faceman that did some amazing stuff for OCPmovie. He took the workprint of Thief and cleaned it up. The comparison shots were incredible. Gonna search that thread to see if I can find what software he used.


I'm checking out some threads I remember with things like this being mentioned, there might be an AVISynth plugin or something.
Will be checking out the forums at Doom9.org as well
Post
#265817
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: figmentfly
Excellent - Really well done - the music syncs up nicely. I'm REALLY looking forward to this.


Thanks

The music fits it very well doesn't it.

Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
Yes!!!!! Brilliant, it works, I always knew it would work. To finally see that scene with Goldsmith music is pure bliss.
I like where you've inserted it. I had always imagined it interspersed with the finding the ring scene, like the AC has it, but your way works better. The sun rises, summer returns, because the Alicorn is restored, not because the ring was found. I like that, gives priority to the Unicorn story, as opposed to the Lily story. As it should be.


I keep wondering whether this was part of a complete scene originally. Wish there was some more footage after the Unicorn gets up though. Seems to be a bit brief.
There is a clue in that it is still dark when Jack surfaces with the ring, and when we see Jack with Lili again it is sunny.
It doesn't matter anyway, I couldn't mix it with finding the ring without losing footage and/or sync with the music.



Post
#265815
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
Originally posted by: LeoneNut The Faerie Dance may get a little trickier, I will need to crop, add letterboxing and anamorphise. Some parts may have to be cropped just a little differently though.
Will be using DGIndex, an AVISynth script and TMPGEnc to do these fiddly bits.


Those panning shots of photographs; they work quite well, maybe insert them in a 2.35 frame with black bars on the sides. Not sure how that will look. As for the featurette footage, there's a fiddle solo towards the end of the scene where that could be inserted quite nicely, as the footage is basically just Gump playing his fiddle. Have you tried cutting out the storyboards yet, and using them as a full 2.35 picture?


I have actually cropped and converted most of the shots needed.
The footage from the documentary is framed in the middle of the screen, although you do see some crew and equipment, looks fine.
I basically did three sweeps of the Faerie Dance, one framed to 2.35:1 showing the centre of the footage, and then for the top and bottom. I will have a combination of all three to best show each part (The majority being the in the middle, because of the storyboards).
I think it best if the photographs are shown fully in the 2.35:1 frame, as there would be too much dead space. I will be showing as much of these photos as possible.

The Alternate Intro footage is interesting because it isn't quite 2.35:1, I may crop off a little from the top and bottom or add small black bars to the sides. I tried cleaning this up, but isn't much of an improvement unfortunately.
Post
#265813
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: dark_jedi
LeoneNut,
sorry if this has been mentioned,if so I missed it,but is this project going to be 4:3 letterbox,or 16:9 anamorphic?
hopefully 16:9,but if not,thats cool,I can convert it for my 62' widescreen.
also will it be DD 2.0 or DD 5.1?
thanks again,hopefully the soundtracks will get into your hands very soon.


Yes everything will be 16:9 anamorphic, and the soundtrack will be DD 2.0 Surround. Love to do a 5.1 track but don't quite have the know how yet.

Post
#265569
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: andy_k_250
What programs are you using for this project? Are you having to deal with differing aspect ratios and/or cropping certain scenes?


DVD Decrypter for the ripping, Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD for the editing and DVD Lab Pro for the DVD authoring.

The scenes from the three different officially released cuts is all 2.35:1 and the black bars match perfectly.

For the Alternate Intro footage I will be converting 4:3 to Anamorphic 16:9 (just a case of cropping some black bars and resizing)
The Faerie Dance may get a little trickier, I will need to crop, add letterboxing and anamorphise. Some parts may have to be cropped just a little differently though.
Will be using DGIndex, an AVISynth script and TMPGEnc to do these fiddly bits.
Post
#265567
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: dark_jedi
Legend Scores, Jerry Goldsmith's and Tangerine Dream are on the way to LeoneNut,man I am excited about this project,I love this movie,so what versions are still officially available and where,I have the US Theatrical with Tangerine Dream,and the Directors with Jerry Goldsmith,both NTSC,are there any other available versions out there?dont mind if it is a different region,I have a multi-region DVD player.
thanks
DJ


Thanks DJ

You can get the 94minute European cut in NTSC from either Japan Region 2 or Korea Region 3 (Might be a Hong Kong version as well).
Or in PAL from any European country. It's usually distributed by Fox.

Japanese DVD Here
Post
#265456
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
Why not use the DC intro verbatim right up to and including the credit of Asheton Gorton. Use that to replace everything in the alternate intro up to the first shot of Blunder walking through the stream. The only shot that would have to be edited out would be the close up of Blix's boots which is only shown later. The rest is mainly replacing all the Blix shots minus the 2 tree shots, which you could slot in later at the tree entrance. I'm saying this from memory as I'm at work and only have the EC on my machine. I'll look at it in depth when I get home.



This is sounding more and more like a good idea. The alternate intro was in a rough state anyway and not fully edited.

I find it frustrating, I too post from work sometimes, and just want to go home and check out what was talked about here


I'm going to have to re-watch the AC sometime and look for other shots I may have missed.
I used to watch this version as a kid many many times, but I still find things I missed. I used to think Brown Tom was called Rum-Tum until I finally saw the DC


Post
#265441
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Looks like it will be quite complicated to edit.

I haven't done a proper comparison of the shots in the title sequence and the alternate intro.
I have a feeling it might mess up the order and pace of the credits, if I use the exact shots.
You're right though, most of the titles are over forest and animal shots, and the alternate intro could be changed to be like this.

Good idea to reintroduce the tree shot, as that's where they end up.


I watched my edit last night checking for problems and have re-edited some parts of the movie.
I mistakenly put the black apple/glass filling scene in the wrong place. I also removed a couple of redundant shots I had added. I have however added back two shots of the cook and the demonic cherub things from the AC intro. Makes Screwball's reaction more understandable, when he decides not to stay and follow the others.

My previous post has been changed to reflect the differences.

Post
#265276
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt

[Edit] If you're struggling to get the soundtrack, I can help out by buying it from Amazon or something, and shipping it to you. Let me know. I'd really like to contribute something to this project.


I should be getting the soundtrack soon.
You already have contributed with lots of ideas and information

The storyboards actually do look 2.35:1. But there are panning shots of some photographs that might cause a few problems.

The Alternate Intro audio is going to be a problem. I can improve it with the correct music from the soundtrack and maybe some of the repeat dialogue from the other intro.
It's really difficult to hear the dialogue in places, you can hear the wind machine in the background!

I was just thinking the other day there will be no titles at the beginning, does it matter if there are none ?


Post
#265174
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Been fixing lots of audio problems tonight, made the cuts less jarring in a number of cases.

I can't get away from it, but Tangerine Dream music will still be present in two scenes because of the dialogue. The scene when Lili bends down to kiss Jack, and says "Jack, I'm sorry." Also the scene with the black apple and the wine glass filling up. I think the music works well enough to not even notice. If I just isolated the lines of dialogue, it sounded too choppy.

For most of the added scenes from the American cut I was able to use audio from elsewhere in the film to replace music.
I even added a final Unicorn sound to the Restoring the Alicorn scene to give it a nice touch.
Post
#265022
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Drool away

Might post a preview of the Restoring the Alicorn scene on YouTube at some point.
I put some of the Jack finding the Ring music to it and it fits very well.
Because I used the soundtrack from the DVD you also get lots of water sound effects, will hopefully be even better from the CD.

I ripped the documentary footage, alternate intro and Faerie Dance last night. The alternate intro will need making anamorphic and cleaning up a bit. Need to remove some cards saying "Scene Missing" etc. Would be nice to somehow make the dialogue more audible and make Tim Curry's voice more menacing
Even though there are some crew visible in the Faerie Dance scene shown in the documentary, I think it will look ok inserted. I'm going to have to think about how to show this scene in a 2.35:1 frame though. Shame that Gump looks different in the storyboards though.

I estimate that version 2 will be approximately 7 minutes longer, so maybe somehow I will have created the Lost 125 min version.


Post
#264868
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time

but his decisions (and preferences) will end up being the final product


Decisions, decisions
Bit of burden on my shoulders...

Here's my take

I started of this project, by just adding back the many shots and scenes that were not used. None of which detract from the focus of the Director's cut. I have added back shots and scenes in such a way as to not mess up continuity etc. I think of this first version as an extended version of the director's cut. This is the version that is my personal preference.

I personally don't have any strong preferences for removing dialogue that is out of place. I think it might be best if this was implemented in the second version with the Alternate Intro and Faerie Dance. Which is what ZakDrizzt originally was interested in.

What do you guys think?

Post
#264823
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: ZakDrizzt
PS: What do you think of Screwball's line in Darkness' Lair 'It's Faerie magic' when Oona's secret is revealed? Never worked for me, I mean, Screwball should be quite familiar with Faerie Magic, being a Faerie himself.

Edit: There's also that scream of Lili's when she looks down at the pool after Jack dives off the cliff. Doesn't make sense why she's screaming. She's actually supposed to be seeing the Pool freeze over, but we don't see that. Could you manipulate that scene a bit? I think there's a shot later where you see a half frozen over pool. Maybe bring that shot back to just before Lili's scream?


To be honest I'm bit wary of editing out lines of dialogue, from a version endorsed by Ridley.

'It's Faerie magic' - Screwball is a bit dumb, maybe he just figured it out

Lili's scream - The music and sound effects kind of lock the footage in place, I can see what you are saying though.

'Adios, Amigos' - This line is good candidate for editing out, though is part of the fun nature of Blunder's character. It seems like it was added at a later stage. I could replace this with an extended scream.

'Me and you all is Barbeque' - I don't mind this line

Maybe we should have a vote on what stays or goes

Post
#264661
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Knightmessenger:
I like the idea of the optional subtitles for the new footage, very easy to do.

I might create a featurette with alternative footage. I did this before with the Once Upon a Time in the West edit I did. Though this might take a while to put together.
There's a quite a few shots out of place in the American version, that can mislead you into thinking it's a different scene.

I might well have to re-use some music for the Alicorn being reattached, and was thinking of using the music from the Jack finding the ring. Depends on whether the viewer would notice too much
I already have repeated little sections of music to cover odd shots being added. Some work very well, some need re-doing...

I'll check out the credits, probably has a list of songs at the end which aren't in the Director's Cut though.


====================================================================
figmentfly:
Yes the plan was to remove the redundant Darkness/Blix scene. I haven't had chance to check out the alternate intro for a while but it seems longer than the existing version.

Glad to hear you are psyched for it, I'm quite enjoying doing it, has made me rediscover the film and appreciate it a whole lot more.


====================================================================
ZakDrizzt:
Yes I plan to use existing footage to make the alternate intro more presentable.

I want to avoid branching, so will create two versions.
I will definitely add the Faerie Dance scene in the alternate version, and I'll check out the documentary. I have a feeling that this version will be close to 125 minutes.

The restoring the Alicorn scene plays silently at the moment, but does seem consistent as a scene (there is a jump cut at the moment, which I need to fix)
I hopefully should be getting the music I need soon.

I will re-visit the scenes you mention and get back to you.

Post
#264331
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
After the christmas rush I found myself with nothing to do. So here goes...

I've started to put together an extended version of Legend. I already have the majority of the video edited.
Here's a rundown of what's been added so far:

0) There are quite a few alternative shots/takes of the same scenes in the AC/EC/DC, I have used the DC version in every case. A good example is the number of alternate shots used in the EC when Gump sets a riddle for Jack. Have ignored the shots of Darkness being shown at the beginning in the AC, he is much more menacing in the EC/DC by not appearing so soon. At the end I haven't restored a long shot of Jack and Lili frolicking by the pool from the EC, as it is an alternate angle of Jack and Lili after crossing the stream. Also haven't added the scene of Jack and Lili watching the Unicorns one last time in the AC, as these are taken from earlier in the film (has an alternate take of Jack and Lili kissing).

1) Shots of clouds gathering in the sky where appropriate from the EC. Didn't restore cloud shots from the AC as they look too different from the ones in the DC.

2) Extra shot of Bird on Jack's shoulder, and him whistling at the bird. (AC)

3) Shots of Jack and Lili crossing a stream. (AC)

4) Shot of Jack turning to Lili. And another of Lili crouching to kiss Jack "Jack, I'm sorry." (AC)
Also uses the extended shot of Lili trying to kiss Jack and him not responding. (AC)

5) Shot of lightning hitting tree before Jack surfaces the frozen pool. (AC)

6) Closeup of the Alicorn being hewn off. (AC)

7) Shot of Blunder jumping up onto a table in the cottage moved earlier in the scene (DC)
Shot of Blunder putting face in bowl put in the above's place. (AC)

8) Shots of Jack searching for Lili in the blizzard "Lili!". (AC)
Shots of Blix and company riding through the storm, and Lili following. (AC)
Pox's line "Four, Five, Six, hurray for Blix! Hey!" has been removed as it was used in the DC earlier.

9) Shots of Gump jumping around and throwing fairy dust at Jack. (AC)
Shot of Elf legs running past Gump and Jack in the background. (AC)
Shot of elves watching Jack. (AC)
Shot of elves giggling and Gump's line "But love is another story." (EC)
Shot of elves throwing up snow, moved to a more appropriate place in the DC. This shot may be from The Fairy Dance originally. (AC)

10) Shot of Screwball watching Jack with the Unicorns, moved so that he is watching Jack walk back and not disrupt the scene as cut in the DC. (AC)

11) Shots of Lili in the blizzard approaching Blix and company. (AC)
Extra shot of Lili watching the Goblins by the fire. (AC)
Blunder's line "Adios Amigos" removed.

12) Odd out of place wipe removed between the Goblins capturing the Unicorn and Jack & Gump finding Brown Tom

13) Shot of glowing eyes on shelf watching Lili who has been taken to the Great Tree. (AC)
Shot of chained Unicorn looking uneasy. (AC)

14) Two shots of the demonic cherubs and a cook chopping up "meat". (AC)
This is taken from the AC intro which makes it look like Darkness is sitting in the kitchen.

15) Dialogue for Oona as she spies on Lili "You should see your princess now!" (EC)

16) Scene of Jack and Gump searching the Great Tree and being attacked by "pygmies". (AC)

17) Shot of statue getting up, as Lili inspects the necklace. (AC)
Shot of dancing dress engulfing Lili with added flash. (AC)

18) Shot of Brown Tom and Screwball, after Jack and Gump find them. (AC)
Shot of Jack looking at them. (AC)

19) Shot of one of the cooks being attacked by Gump and company, moved to a more appropriate place in the DC. (AC)

20) Scene of Lili at the table looking at the black fruit on a plate, and the wine glass filling up. (AC)
This scene is moved to appropriate place in the DC to make continuity a bit better.
Darkness: "Eat"
"Drink"

21) Shot of Unicorn being held down by Darkness' minions, before Darkness starts his "sermon". (AC)

22) Screwball's line "Get up there!" after he gets the plate to the top of the chimney. (AC)

23) Shot of Screwball falling asleep in exhaustion at the top of the chimney. (AC)

24) Extra shots where Jack swings his sword on Darkness a second time, Darkness screaming and sparks from the hands. (AC)

25) Scene of Alicorn being restored on the Unicorn, the sun rising and the Unicorn getting up. (AC)
This has been cobbled together from the intercutting scenes in the AC, so that the Jack and Lili scenes don't suffer as edited.

26) Overhead shot of Lili under the spell lying on the grass. (AC)

27) Shot of Gump reaching the top of the cliff. (EC)

28) Used the DC/EC ending of Jack running off on his own. The AC has Jack and Lili running together.

29) Did not restore the cheesy shot of Darkness laughing before the credits roll

======================================================================
I'm sure I've missed some footage somewhere. The runtime so far is 118 minutes 24 seconds.

There are various audio problems to tackle yet.
I could do with a copy of the Jerry Goldsmith score to add audio to the new scene of the Alicorn being restored, might have a look for one tomorrow.

I'm going to start looking at the alternate 4 goblins intro at some point, I think I might do two versions. The version I'm completing now and another with the alternate intro and the storyboarded Fairy Dance.

Thanks to ZakDrizzt for setting the ball rolling and the very useful shot breakdowns by Sean Murphy.

Edit: Added footage back by mistake that was already in the DC, runtime has changed
Post
#262343
Topic
Legend - Lost 125 min Director's cut (Released)
Time
Had a look at Sean's lists, and there is quite a lot of footage missing that could be added back.
I'd like to have a crack at it, but seriously don't have the time at the moment. I have the materials in NTSC, R1 Ultimate Edition (Director's + US Theatrical) and a R3 disc of the European Theatrical.
I'm hopeless at audio editing and trying to remove the Tangerine Dream music puts me off. Unless there is an easy way of doing it...