Kyp_Astaar

Marooned Biker Scout said:

AhsokatheChosenOne said:

Yeah, I agree. I liked it better when I thought they were just that bent on following orders. The chips seem like lazy writing. What’s funny, though, is that in the Bad Batch, they seem like they’re trying to backtrack on it. What with some clones acting like people instead of microchipped zombies inexplicably? I liked the Clone Wars Finale, but I wonder if it would have been more satisfying to see the Clones struggle with the moral dilemma of following orders or doing what they thought was right. Especially Rex since he was seen as a very dogmatic character who took his service to the republic seriously.

I would have preferred to have seen that too, more a focus on them trained to follow orders, instead of being chipped.

I’ve been watching the Prequels for years and only recently noticed that Obi-Wan sees the doner of the Clone DNA (Jango) at Kamino and then sees Jango standing right next to Dooku, the guy who started the Clone Wars in the first place. It’s confusing to think about how they didn’t connect the dots there. This ruins the episodes where Anakin and Obi-Wan investigate the death of Syfo Dias and then find out that way that Dooku ordered the clones when they should have realized he had something to do with it when they saw him and Jango together, especially since they didn’t know where the Clones came from. The more I think about it, the more glaring this plot hole seems.

This old meme sprung to my mind reading the first part of your post:

 
And also this similar point too, but this one likely fits a different discussion. Sorry to Kyp_Astaar for the shitpost:

On this note, what’s even worse is Dooku openly saying to Obi-Wan that the whole senate was controlled by his master.
I can rationalize Jango being there, simply because he’s a bounty hunter, and he was bought 10 or so years ago to be the donor for the clone army and recently took a job from the separatists, that’s “tolerable”, i’d go out on a limb and say that, even if it’s a big stretch, the separatists were ready to declare war to the republic, so they literally had no choice but make use of the army (Palpatine organized it so that they were forcibly put into a corner without any way of escaping outside of employing the clones) but that Dooku line breaks everything, especially what’s been pointed out with those excellent memes.
If anything, they should make a cut without that goddamn line.
If ep.II was a tv series instead of a movie, it would actually be interesting if for a couple of episodes Yoda has to weigh in the moral and ethical implications of using an army that’s being conveniently handed to them right by the time of need and actually sending the republic to war, but it’s a moot point to imagine such things.

AhsokatheChosenOne said:
Anyways, I agree with you. Sorry for ranting.

MTFBWY

Don’t be sorry man, this whole post is a rant.

AdmiralWasabi10191 said:
OH YEAH! No KOTOR III, BATTLEFRONT III, STAR WARS: IMPERIAL COMMANDO, or STAR WARS: 1313! I would have played all four! Damn canceled games.

You know, in all fairness when certain builds of the game started leaking, including the story mode, i can safely say that BF3 would have an absolute dysmal story.
The gameplay looked sick af tho.

Look at Shaw’s warm smile, then look at Christensen’s creepy grin.

Even without all the implications of why he should or shouldn’t appear at young or old age, that alone is the reason why there’s no contest.

When i was a kid i could breeze past a level like nobody’s business, tried to replay it just a month ago and i such harder than a dyson vacuum

Never liked on a fundamental level the premise of the inhibitor chips, but i have to admit, as much as i hate Disney products, i actually enjoy anything outlining the transition between Republic and Empire, whether it’s political or bureaucratic.
I can’t stand Omega though, she’s genuinely insufferable and brings down the whole series, this could be less kiddie show and more universal if the characters were less cartoony.
Too bad because, although TCW started the same way, they improved a lot during the seasons (especially 3 to 5), that’s why i decided to give The Bad Batch a chance in the first place

C3PX said:

My original draw to the character of Kyle Katarn was that he was an average kind of guy. He wasn’t Luke Skywalker, or some ancient mystical occultist warrior. He was just a guy with a gun, trying to get by under a tyrannical regime. And finally, circumstanced draw him into the Rebellion.

I was irritated when the story turned into, here is you father’s lightsaber, he was murdered by an evil Sith Lord…you must learn the ways of the Jedi, and follow in your father’s footsteps… Suddenly he is a cheap ripoff of Luke (or almost a cocktail of Han and Luke). Even the showdown at the end of the game, much like the showdown in Return of the Jedi, has Kyle tempted to turn to the darkside. Please!

Even having him turn to the darkside later on was pretty lame. It is kind of silly how in the movies we get the impression that once you turn to the darkside you don’t come back, and yet in the EU just about everyone turns to the darkside sooner or later and have absolutely no trouble coming back with a little help from their friends. Gets a little old.

I completely get what you’re saying, although i wouldn’t define Kyle Katarn an ordinary guy anyways, he was a goddamn one man army.
If Lucasfilm ever shot a movie about the first Dark Forces back in the day, i would have made him more like a spy that knows when to shoot and when to pull off his imperial rank to infiltrate (of course the game was a Doom clone, so that couldn’t be translated into the gameplay.
To me Jedi Knight (which was the first pc game i ever played, well… the demo at least) always felt like a parallel dimension to the movie, it had enough of a Star Wars feel, but looked different somehow, i don’t even know if i’m able to explain it properly, i just know that that’s the impression it always gave me, since i was a 7-years old laddie.
Then the lines got blurred by a lot when they inserted him more into the SW inner circle of Luke and Lando (and consequently Han and Chewie as well), of all the titles Jedi Knight is the one that feels more removed from “things we know”, it’s a self-contained story that’s in fact so self-contained that passes more or less debatably as a Star Wars lookalike, but i will say it does have more of a Kurosawa feel than actual SW.

Spartacus01 said:

I’m Italian too and I understand you perfectly, in our country It’s very difficult to find Star Wars books, because publishers are lazy and never translate anything. Anyway, in the Multimedia Project the Clones were genetically engineered to obey every order without question, just as it’s established in Attack of the Clones, therefore 99.9% of regular Clones obeyed Order 66. However, Clones of higher rank such as Commandos and ARC troopers were more independent than regular Clones, and had the ability to disobey orders. It was necessary to make them more independent than regular Clones, because the kind of missions they were designed to participate in required more independence and free thinking. In fact, most of these Clones obeyed Order 66, but there were also many cases of desertion.

I remember Bly’s story, which actually formed a deep bond with Aayla Secura, after having executed the Order i remember he killed himself once he realized what he had done, was it grim? Sure, but i mean, so is Order 66 and the transition from republic to empire, i don’t expect a boatload of Clones to disobey it, otherwise it would mess up the continuity as far as i’m concerned, but at least show that a good portion of them actually feels remorse for their involuntary actions (if you’re engineered that way and then brainwashed as well with a set of keywords, then that’s what they are in the end), or as shown in the Bad Batch, they might go rogue later, once the empire starts “retiring” clones, i absolutely despise Omega as a character (and consequently them for sucking up to everything she says or asks), but i will concede that the political/world building stuff is surprisingly excellent.

NeverarGreat said:

Giving the clones a chip instantly robs them of any agency they could have had as individuals. Truly one of the worst things to come out of The Clone Wars show.

It’s also quite bizarre from a motivation angle, since there are so many ways in which the clones could have turned against the Jedi. For example, Palpatine could reveal that Yoda and the Jedi are inherently mistrustful of the clones and will intend to take over their peacekeeping duties once the war is over, relegating the clones to ignoble retirement or outright termination once their purpose has been fulfilled. Then the impetus of the clones to destroy the Jedi at the end of the war could grow organically from within their ranks, nurtured by the machinations of Palpatine.

It’s an interesting idea, although extremely hard to pull off imho, the Jedi would just find out at some point, as they should have with this stupid arc, the prequels trilogy (and Clone Wars) already have enough internal logic issues, adding to them would probably break everything to a point of no return, and it is debatable already if such point has been reached (no i’m not counting the disney content, that doesn’t exist at all in my book)

Sorry for being a party pooper, but this game almost killed my passion for Star Wars back then, i remember being pretty much pumped up to play the first one, yet the more i went on through the story, the more i hated it.
When Tartakovski’s Clone Wars came out i saw that as a novelty and i liked it a lot, but it worked because it was a cartoon, when i see force users do ridicolous stuff like they would in the CW in more realistic settings, then i would have a problem with that.
The only thing i appreciated was that Shaak-Ti survived Order 66, although i don’t even remember if you kill her or not in the game.

What really broke me was TFU2, i got it with a special offer in a humble bundle not even one year after it came out, and i certainly didn’t get it for that, i wanted KotOR 1 and 2, all the Dark Forces saga, Battlefront II and other games on steam, yet i played it just out of morbid curiosity after finishing some big game and i didn’t know what to play, and it was tenfold worse than the first one. It was campy but without any fun aspects that usually characterize the camp, all the while they tried to make it look moody and grim.

I’ll admit, it was still a part of a bigger picture, it wasn’t solely responsible for my Star Wars crisis, The Clone Wars still hadn’t kicked into gear yet and i was starting to get frustrated by them (ironically enough in the end i like mostly seasons 3 to 5, excluding that god-awful arc with the aspects of the light and dark side), that atrocious star wars dancing game came out as well, and speaking of dancing, i saw that cringe-inducing video of Darth Vader imitating Michael Jackson at the star tours (it really foretold where the whole franchise would go in just a few months).
I definitely needed a pause, which i can’t say the Disney acquisition didn’t give me, because that started a whole new crisis, but at least it eventually forced me to reappreciate what i actually liked about the franchise up to that point.

Spartacus01 said:

No, you’re not the only one. I totally agree with you. It was stupid. In the Clone Wars Multimedia Project there wasn’t any chip, and it was done Better.

Unfortunately by living in Italy we had limited access to more niche SW literature, by the time TCW’s movie/series arrived they started catching up, but before it was a mess, i bought some republic commando and yuuzhan vong saga novels out of desperation one summer in 2006 when i went to the UK for vacation.
How did they put it in the multimedia project?

I can finally rewatch Empire as released back in 1980 (not that i would know, since i was born in 1990, but still, that’s how i watched it for the first time) even though this is the most tolerable of the SEs, simply for continuity’s sake it’s great to watch along SW and RotJ despecialized, i could never thank each and everyone that took part in this project enough.

May the force be with you all.

I can finally rewatch Return of the Jedi without any embarassing CGI shenanigans (of which this particular movie is fuller than any other in the trilogy), i could never thank each and everyone that took part in this project enough.

May the force be with you all.

I can finally rewatch Star Wars without any embarassing CGI shenanigans, i could never thank each and everyone that took part in this project enough.

May the force be with you all.

Both from the perspective of them being (coincidentally speaking) easily discoverable, but most importantly, how the whole story plays out in the Clone Wars.

I already have my issues with how the republic (and the Jedi) accepts the Clone Army without doing any sort of investigation while also being forced to use it to repel the Separatist attacks.
At such point they already knew:
A) That Kamino was erased from the Jedi Archives
B) That the army was ordered by a Jedi who died prior to the commission
C) That they were clones of the Bounty Hunter sent to assassinate Padmé.
D) That Dooku told Obi-Wan (although considered a lie back then) Darth Sidious was controlling the senate.

I know these are AotC’s faults more than TCW, however, showing that Rex AND Anakin were told about the plot (and it would have been bad enough that every jedi knew about what Tops did and how suspiciously elusive and borderline confrontational the Kaminoans were during the initial investigation) honestly feels like overexplaining themselves into a dead end, while self-indulgently wanting dissect every single detail about the Order 66 origins.
In my opinion it would have been simply better to leave it as mental conditioning (Manchurian Candidate-style), with unspecified genetic modifications as mentioned in AotC without introducing biochips, tumors and whatnot, and DEFINITELY NOT prior accidents related to it.

I usually hate the “less is more” motto, but i guess there are times when it just is undeniably true, like this one.
Well, i guess this and Prometheus, but we’re not here to talk about Alien lore, are we? : P

SparkySywer said:
If they did, and tried doing something radical with it, it would piss off Old Republic fans.

Not that that ever stopped Disney up to this point :\

Call me an extremist, but i’m already mad they reinstated stuff like Thrawn, or the Darktroopers (or anything else i might have missed along the way).

I can understand people being happy about this, but ultimately i can’t see it any other way than Disney first mercilessly killing the EU to promote their own movies and merchandise and later cherrypicking whatever they want/need because they don’t have any idea on how to build their own.

I’m not saying the old EU was perfect by any extent of the imagination, in fact its last year was pretty dark i’ll say, the Clone Wars still hadn’t kicked into gear, The Force Unleashed 1 and 2 were outrageously bad, meanwhile they released other awful titles like that dancing SW game, all while there were already videos of dancing Darth Vader at the Star Tours on Disneyworld.
However, especially at its inception, they were learning as they went along, and they kept Star Wars alive during the lulls, the whole Shadows of the Empire multimedia project (regardless of the audience liking more or less the story) is, alone, an extraordinary maneuver to revitalize the franchise, before even relaunching the infamous Special Editions.
It was a different approach altogether, way less cynical than Disney’s Lucasfilm (for the most part), no wonder the best story released to this day by them is Jedi Fallen Order. Outside of LF representatives that told them what they could or could not use, the whole story, as far as i heard in the making of, was completely conceived by Respawn Studio.

They aren’t taking any chances, and i feel like when they will it’ll be too late for me to care, since it’s safe to say my hatred for Disney is already superior to Palpatine’s for the Jedi Order.

Since it would be both entitled, arrogant and foolish of me to think anyone following this thread read my presentation post, i’d have to clarify that the old EU shaped greatly the way i approached myself to SW, so it’s very near and dear to me, witnessing its unceremonious disbandment as if snapped by Thanos, it certainly killed every form of goodwill i could’ve had for Disney, which was already low, since Lucasfilm wasn’t the first franchise they had bought (nor the last, still to this day seeing “20th Century Studios” instead of “20th Century Fox” really depresses me).

I hope i’ve given enough context to my strong opinion, especially in cases like these i feel like it’s important to explain one’s thought and points of view, instead of just saying “meh, sucked” or “i hate it lol”.

Channel72 said:

But when people say TCW Anakin is a completely different character or that Filoni fixed him, it isn’t really correct. He’s the same as ROTS Anakin, we just got to see more of him.

Meh… I don’t know. Maybe it’s just the way Lucas directed Hayden Christensen, or perhaps Christensen’s own creative choices, but his portrayal of Anakin often bordered on eerily unstable or psychotic, like he’s channeling Malcolm McDowell in a Clockwork Orange. Even during the opening sequence of ROTS, where Anakin is arguably the most level-headed and closest to what I would have imagined him to be, Christensen still occasionally injects this underlying element of borderline personality disorder that comes out sometimes in a facial expression or line delivery.

In contrast, Clone Wars Anakin is a lot closer to something like a Han Solo/Luke Skywalker hybrid. Basically a typical “hot shot” hero character who sometimes also functions as an anti-hero when he wants to be expedient. This portrayal is definitely closer to how I imagined Anakin to be prior to the Prequels, but I also think it loses a lot of the vulnerability that Christensen’s portrayal offered.

Regardless, it’s hard to reconcile the two portrayals as representing the same character. I think a perfect Anakin portrayal would combine elements of the Filoni incarnation with some elements of Christensen’s portrayal, like the occasional vulnerability. I also think Anakin should be a bit less brash/Han Solo-esque, and more of a “by the book” guy that values courage, loyalty and stability. (These are the kind of traits that need to be exploited for him to become Vader.)

Being italian and having watched the PT for many years in italian only, i can safely say he comes out a bit better than the original, it’s by no extent of the imagination a perfect dubbing, mostly because the voice actor still needs to emulate at least sometimes his tone, unfortunately we traded a better performance for Anakin for the clearly superior acting that Ewan McGregor gave for Obi-Wan in original language, not to mention McDiarmid’s priceless Palpatine acting.
I would almost compare it to Schwarzenegger’s case, i know his bad Austrian accent is iconic, but if you watch his movies in any other language (italian would indeed be mine, although i admit especially from the late 70s through early 90s the italian voice acting landscape was ON FIRE, so that gives it more of an edge), they become whole different movies.

As far as the topic goes, I would say that it really depends how much Lucas was actually involved in at least bouncing off ideas back and forth with Filoni.
It’s painfully clear at this point that George’s strong suit is being an idea man, so i wonder how much he “idea’d” stuff for the CW, i guess we’ll never really know, no matter how many documentaries can be available about the making of TCW.

[Bluto said:]
6) Luke’s scream. Only used in the 1997 version, and a bizarre addition which was thankfully removed in all future versions. Without this, the 1997 SE would be about neck and neck with the 1980 version for me.
Bluto

Too bad we now have to deal with Vader’s "Noooo"s at the end of ROTJ (as if it weren’t already the most insufferable episode’s SE of them all), i agree that TESB is the best of the SWSEs, the fact alone that an argument could be made (whether someone agrees or not) if it’s better than the original says it all, but still, the added effects recall too much attention, they really stick like sore thumbs.
I’m actually not against the Wampa because, if anything else was left the same, it would be more like a Lucas’ cut instead of a Special Edition, and i’m all for extended cuts in general, unless the movies in question are awful, but this definitely isn’t the case.

Well, i guess here i am finally, i knew about this project since i first heard (and immediately after watched as well) “The People vs George Lucas” 8 years or so ago, yet i always failed to notice there was a forum attached.

[Schmultzy TL;DR on]
This actually brings me back way more than 8 years ago, first because Forums have ended up “surclassed” by social media (even though i always maintained this is the superior platform of the two, and not just because i have wonderful memories of experiences in forums throughout my teenage years) unfortunately, but also because back in december 2005 (i was only 15 back then) i joined my first SW fan club, which of course, had its own forum:
Great times were had, cons attended (here in Italy at least, never went to a Celebration in my life, and since Disney bought SW, i can confidently say i’ll never attend one in the future as well), prizes won, Force FX Master Replicas birthday gifted to, marriages witnessed, and, last but definitely not least, hundreds of hours of discussion about either the intricacies or broader topics about Star Wars happened.

I guess, at this point, that it’s safe to say Star Wars gave me a lot (it also took a lot, but that’s a WHOLE different topic right there), i’ve been somewhat pampered when it comes to the theatrical release of the OT, the annual convention i went to had the tradition of projecting the despecialized dvds the last 3 days of the event at midnight, and we would religiously watch them as if it were an actual ritual, which of course brought me back to when i first watched it as a kid in my older cousin’s room at my aunt’s attic.
The issue being: i never owned that particular release of dvds, mostly because i was still a kid and i couldn’t possibly ask my parents to buy me yet another SW set of DVDs, and later they became (justifiably so) pretty much impossible to find by conventional means, which brings me to finding out years later about the despecialized editions.

But dark times befell the franchise, by then Disney bought Star Wars, and for some years i couldn’t bring myself to even watch it (not only was i enamored with the OT, and to some degree and many many asterisks the Prequels as well, but to me the Expanded Universe played a huge part in the evolution of my fandom and the whole perspective i viewed its own Galaxy as a whole, so hearing of it being so unceremoniously canned just has been too much to take for a while), it’s been 4 years at this point that i internally made peace with my memories of SW, obviously it’s impossible for me to repress them, just as it was impossible for Anakin to repress his love for Padmé (many things could be said about their relationship, but such are the facts as we know them), and now i am content to simply reminisce of the good times i had, and maintain the few friendships i forged in the fan club years that stood the test of time, while revisiting at my convenience any piece of media from the original EU (i usually replay every year the whole Dark Forces saga, although KotOR also gets dusted off every random number of years, plus other various titles).
Of course the movies must be a part of all this, and even though i rewatch the prequels as well, it’s not as often as the OT for obvious reasons, but the special editions, especially with the updated changes in the Complete Saga box set, which i was gifted to back in 2011 are like a punch in the eye and a dropkick to the ear simultaneously, which is why i could never be thankful enough that this project exists, otherwise the OT would end up being the less revisited of the two, and boy would that be both strange and a shame.
[Schmultzy TL;DR off]

So now that i opened myself again to Star Wars (albeit in my own unique way), i feel like it’s about time that i joined again a platform to discuss at least some aspects of it, and why not the forum of the fan project that dedicates itself to preserving the theatrical versions of the original trilogy?

Thank you all for reading (TLDR or not) this, and a special thanks to HARMY and everyone else that participated by giving even the smallest input, the result is clearly a legendary feat that already is “worthy of recognition in the archives of the Jedi Order”
: )