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Kepling

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2-Aug-2015
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24-Apr-2016
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Post
#934098
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

adywan said:

Kepling said:

During the battle over Takodana, when Finn stops to watch the dogfight, the end of that sequence some storm troopers in front of a wall get blown up by a X-wing - Really bad and noticeable CG

Are you sure about that? The only CG bit in that shot was the x-wing. The wall exploding and the troopers were all practical. You only have to watch the behind the scenes footage to see that shot being filmed -completely practical

I was referencing from memory and pointed to the wrong part, it’s at 1:16:00. Before Finn stops to gawk, not after.

Sreen 1

Sreen 2

It could very well be a combination of practical and CG, judging from the extra’s disk they seemed to do that quite a bit.

imperialscum said:

Then show me a film released at the same time with was supposed to be state-of-the-art at the time.

Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within was advertised as state of the art at the time, and was 100% completely CG. I personally wasn’t impressed with it when it came out. Jurassic Park is a good example of CG in a live action movie because they used restraint and only used it when absolutely necessary. The LotR trilogy was the opposite and said that the movie wasn’t possible without the use of CG for many of the parts. The over use of CG got worse as that trilogy went on, and into the Hobbit it got even worse.

Post
#933794
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

Better than anything I saw in the prequels.

TFA has way bigger problems than CGI.

I think the point I’m trying to illustrate is that many of the problems in TFA stem from the fact that they leaned on the crutch of CG too much. The OT didn’t have this luxury and ultimately became a work of art that still stands today. Can the PT say that? What will we say about the special effects in TFA 10 years from now?

"If you end your training now - if you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did - you will become an agent of evil. " -Yoda

Post
#933735
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Lord Haseo said:

Though it was a good way to establish Han’s character this was filler

The way Han and Chewie were introduced wasn’t bad, but after they step off the MF it just goes down hill.

I disagree. Remember the name of the film is The Force Awakens so not only is it about finding Luke; the plot of the film is also about a lowly scavenger finding she has this immense power within her and her flashback alongside her interrogation at the hand of Kylo Ren was her first step into a larger world. Now the destruction of SKB was filler.

I can agree with that, but it’s another case of being poorly written, could have been handled better.

Personally I don’t care about the amount of practical effects they used in TFA or lack thereof because most things looked real. Which is something no one can say for the prequels.

When I find time this weekend I can probably find more examples, but off the top of my head without re-watching the BR:

Giant pig creature on Jakku - Bad practical effect
Unkar Plutt - Bad practical effect mixed with bad CG
Maz Kanata - Bad CG
Rathtars - Bad CG
Snoke - Bad CG
The creature on the mechanical steed that captures BB-8 - Bad Practical Effect
The “space” battles over Takodana and SKB - over the top misuse of CG
During the battle over Takodana, when Finn stops to watch the dogfight, the end of that sequence some storm troopers in front of a wall get blown up by a X-wing - Really bad and noticeable CG

CG itself isn’t bad, but time and time again modern directors have proven their lack of restraint when using that tool. The SE’s and PT’s are prime examples of this, as are tons of other modern movies like the LotR trilogy, Marvel and DC movies, Transformers, etc. Also look at the move from hand drawn animation to completely CG animation, Disney even went as far as firing all the old animators in favor of CG everything. It’s getting to the point where I’m expecting people to start arguing that the Mona Lisa would have been 10x better if it was made in Photoshop.

The old tools are just as relevant as the new, but artists need to learn good judgement as to when and where it is appropriate to use either. Unfortunately it seems that many in the industry are less concerned about making art in favor of milking a cash cow, and given the budget allowed to TFA they very well could have made it in a very similar manner as the OT was made. Instead we got another blockbuster “CG wankfest” as I put it, since everything these days has to be “over the top,” “so awesome,” and “aww, so cool.”

Now if you excuse me, I need to get back to yelling at clouds for a bit.

Post
#933632
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Lord Haseo said:

imperialscum said:

As I said, empty filler to bind the crap together.

Even if it were filler (somehow) how does that make the plot not about Luke? If so what the hell is the plot about? I know it isn’t about blowing up SKB because that was pretty much skipped over.

IMO the plot was about finding Luke, the main problem though is the empty filler consisting of:

-Han’s freighter
-Maz’s Cantina
-The Starkiller Base

The movie started out strong with a concise goal, but after escaping Jakku the movie makes a turn downwards. If those 3 sections of the movie were cut out you’d have plenty of space to do anything else with, for instance having Luke actually in the movie doing stuff. It’s like in TPM were the movie stops for a pod race, or the mostly useless speeder chase in the beginning of ATOC. George wasted so much time in the 1st 2 prequels he had to cover a lot of bases in ROTS making for an overall mediocre PT, and that’s on top of all the other things wrong with them.

I could go into detail about all the other things wrong with TFA, but this thread has enough lists and walls of texts in it all ready. I am still pissed that they promoted the practical effects so much, only for them to be mediocre at best compared to what was accomplished 30+ years ago. Overall effects wise TFA is just another Hollywood CG wankfest to me, and I think the lack luster practical effects were just an excuse to not bother with them in VIII.

Post
#893604
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

TV’s Frink said:

The prequels sucked. There’s no way to possibly argue they are good or well-made, even if you don’t think they sucked. But the complaints here make me feel a little bad for Lucas, because he never stood a chance. He could have made the best three movies ever made and it wouldn’t have mattered. I never really bought that argument before, but now seeing it play out with TFA, I kind of buy it. Hell, if this internet existed in 1977, some of you would have ripped Star Wars to absolute shreds.

Fun stuff.

I agree the prequels sucked, but I remember the old days before the SE’s and accessible internet. We tore the OT to shreds back in the day in dank comic store basements, but I forget most of what we complained about thanks to the SE’s (they added so much garbage). All I remember for ANH was parsecs and washers being droid turds, while RotJ took the most heat since it had the weakest story of the 3 (and also Ewoks).

Ahh, the glory days when nerds were real nerds. But I digress.


I did go see TFA a 2nd time today so I thought I would share some randoms thoughts about it here with you fine folks. I did skim though reviews and I have to say I agree with many of the perceived problems, and I’ll try to keep this somewhat organized.

Characters:

-Rey ,I though, was a good character for the most part, and Daisy Ridley did a good job acting considering what she was given to work with. Like many others, I felt that her natural gift with the force comes too quickly, especially considering her lack of training. Running off at Maz’s was stupid, but everything on that planet was a mess. Still more of a man than that Annie in the PT since she has no problems with sand.

-Finn was for the most part solid and well acted (again considering the material given to him). His overly emotional hyperventilating towards the beginning I thought was a bit over the top, and trying to go to the outer rim was honestly really out of character.

-Ren sucked. Many want to label him with things like "emo’ and “Darth Vader wannabe,” but to be honest the correct label for him, IMO, is “Dark Helmet.” When he removes his face mask, it just reinforces this notion.

-BB8 was, to be honest, worthless. Looks cool and will probably sell a lot of toys, but if he were replaced by R2, or any astromech droid for that matter, the result would be about the same. On the plus side the grappling hooks were better than rockets, but still kind of dumb.

-Poe, also kinda worthless. Hopefully he stays a minor character and keeps BB8.

-Maz was a stupid CGI character. I think some are calling her “Yellow Yoda,” but I’m not 100% sure. Lets all hope she doesn’t end up doing stupid Yoda style flips with a mini light saber.

-Snoke, another stupid CGI character, and if anyone should be wearing a mask it should be him.

-General Hux was a poor General. I think just about every Imperial officer in the OT carried themselves more professionally than Hux did.

-Captain Phasma was menacing for about the 1st 10 minutes, then she showed up later to get stuffed in the trash. That’s right, use her as a plot device then just throw her away, literally.

-R2 should have been used more, BB8’s role would have been perfect for him if there wasn’t so much OT crap shoehorned in.

-C3PO was as annoying as ever, but also could have been used more considering him and R2 were originally “observers” of the saga.

-Han was a better role for Harrison compared to his other more resent work. I’m sure Han’s role could have been better, but at least he played a somewhat major role in the film.

-Chewie was the same old Chewie. Sucked to see him get shot, but still way better than watching him cut down 1000’s of robots like butter. It’s a good thing to have the possibility of being hurt, maimed, or killed.

-Leia could have had more to do other than some clunky dialog and to stand around in a control room. In response to her complexion I don’t think she has had any plastic surgery or CGI done to her face, some people are just jerks I think.

-Luke just stood there. Still kinda pissed about that since we don’t get to see the original group together one last time.

The plot wasn’t too bad up to the escape from Jakku, after that point the film started to break down. Han’s freighter was a mess, as was Maz’s palace, and to top it off we get a bigger and badder Death Star mkIII that still sucked compared to the 1st 2. I could go into detail but it’s been well covered in here all ready. The pacing was good up to the Jakku escape, but after that it was off to the races.

The special effects I think were what disappointed me the most considering how much they were pushing the practical effects. I was all ready convinced that CGI has no place in a Star Wars film after the prequels, but this film just reinforced my opinion. The only practical effects that I thought were somewhat impressive were how some of the storm troopers flew in the air from explosions, though there were a few times it happened that I could clearly see that it was CGI. In comparison, all 3 OT films still have numerous practical effects that still to this day impress me that they were able to pull it off. These days it’s just “Oh, too much trouble/money? We’ll just CGI it.” If anyone want’s to respond to this paragraph in regard to CGI, please take a moment and enlighten me how they were able to pull off the shots in the OT. I wholeheartedly believe that RotJ’s biggest strength is the space battle that still to this day has yet to be bested, even with all our CGI.

Over all in my opinion, Rey and Finn carried the film and made it at least watchable. After the 2nd viewing I’m not sure if it’s quite up to RotJ standards, but still way ahead of those stupid prequels.

Post
#888203
Topic
Rate 'The Last Jedi' (NO SPOILERS) (was: Rate TFA (NO SPOILERS))
Time

To be fair, the prequels make almost any movie look like a masterpiece of film-making, and with that said you can imagine my opinion of the prequels. Are we allowed negative numbers when rating those things?

ANH:90, this movie has its ups and downs, but since it was the 1st one we tend to forgive its misgivings.

ESB:92, this movie defined the Star Wars movies for the most part, and on top of that I would say that it was the most solid of the original 3. It did have its high points, but the lows never dived deep enough to bring the movie down like some of the things in RotJ.

RotJ:85, this one could easily be called both the best and the worst of the OT. When the highs were high, they were high, and when they’re low, well…Ewoks and a nonsense rescue plan. When I was a kid this one was my favorite simply because it has a space battle that has never been equaled since its release 32 years ago, in my opinion of course.

Now to the new one,

TFA:80ish, comparable to RotJ, but the highs weren’t as high while the lows weren’t as low. Still light years ahead of the prequels, though I do have a list of complaints that I can’t go into here.

Post
#878978
Topic
What if TFA is awful?
Time

Ziggy Stardust said:

If it’s awful, then there will be a funny Red Letter Media review to ease the pain.

Don’t forget a new Rifftrax, thanks to them I can watch the PT and the holiday special without getting suicidal thoughts.

DV:Where is Padme?

“Does she have my legs?”

DV:Is she safe? Is she all right?

“Can I really go right in the suit?”

Back on topic, I think JJ knows most of the ways to not screw up from referencing the PT. A fine example would be the entire droid factory scene in Ep2. The second I see R2 fly or 3PO hanging by his fingers may be the point I just walk out on the movie. I should point out that after Ep1 I didn’t bother seeing the other 2 PT’s in the theater so I didn’t have the opportunity to walk out on that scene.

So, if the TFA is awful, I hope it’s soon enough that I can justify asking for a refund, and then hopefully we get new offerings from Rifftrax and RLM. Granted I would gladly exchange the latter offerings for a great movie that doesn’t deserve a Riffing or a Plinkett review, but getting burned the last 3 times doesn’t leave me a lot of hope though.

Post
#783486
Topic
Movies that were updated, then the original was &quot;lost&quot;(other than Star Wars)
Time

In 1988 George Lucas testified before Congress that the colorization of B&W films would lead to the original films being lost forever. Flash forward a decade and GL does almost this very thing to his own films through the SE's.

So my question here is:

What movies, other than the OT Star Wars, have been "updated," then the original "lost?" Star Wars is probably the most famous example of this sort of thing happening, but are there other examples of this phenomenon?

I remember back in the 90's as a teenager loving the 1st two Alien movies but hating the 3rd. I haven't taken the time to watch the SE of Alien 3 yet but I have heard that the SE fixes almost every problem that movie had. The main point here is that no matter how bad the original cut of Alien 3 was, you can still get both versions, it was never "lost."