What are you guys talking about? It's a well-known fact that there is only one Matrix movie. I wish they'd made a sequel!
TMBTM said:
I'm french and I must say that the dubbing of the original trilogy, except the various, but subtle, changes of names between Ep 4 and the rest of the saga, is GREAT. I guess some of you listening to Francis Lax dubbing Harrison Ford would not agree with me (because it makes Han's voice sound more high peached), but for a french audience who grew up in the 80's it is an iconic voice. I must say that I still almost prefer the french version over the original, surely part because of a nostalgia factor, but not only.
Funny thing is that one thing that I hated in the PT is that they finally called C-3PO by his "original" name instead of Z-6PO in the OT. I think 6PO sounds way better in french that 3PO and sounds more, well, like 3PO in english, if I make myself clear! Let's say that in the 80's people who made the dubbing had a LOT of time to make the voices "their own". They tried different things, that could end being a bit too far from the original source for american fans BUT that could better suits the foreign audience. Today dubbing actors can't change one line of dialogue (by contract) to better match the lips movement like they did before and they have just some days to make their job at best when they had weeks in the 80's. I talked with the guy dubbing Bruce Willis in french (Patrick Poivey) and he strongly agreed with me to say that today's dubbing are not at the same level than before.
I think I can understand you. Here in Germany, the old Bud Spencer films have a huge cult following, and I bet that's also because of the excellent and very funny dubbing by Wolfgang Hess. It would definitely feel "wrong" if I watched them in English or Italian (which I don't understand well enough anyway).
An extreme example of dubbing gone crazy (in a positive way) are the Bill & Ted movies. I've never seen anything like the German dub for these movies. I don't know what the guys who did the dubbing were smoking, but they even inserted (funny) jokes where there are none in the English version.
As for Star Wars, I am glad the German dub is so close to the original. That made it easier to "switch" to the English version. The German Luke even has the same slightly whiny tone in his voice as the English one.
unamochilla2 said:
There are a lot of "older" fans who love the PT and more than the OT. I know a guy who is turning 40 soon and he's obsessed the PT, specifically Darth Maul. He even has a tattoo of Maul on his shoulder. He likes Maul simply because he looks cool and has "epic" lightsaber moves. He doesn't see a thing wrong with either the PT or the OT, but prefers the PT over the OT. And, yes, he grew up with the OT.
In my opinion, it's fine to love the PT. It boggles my mind, but it doesn't infuriate me. Each to their own, I guess.
What I really hate is when people start bashing "prequel haters", as if there were no objective reasons to consider the PT inferior to the OT.
darth_ender said:
When I first opened this thread, I thought, "Cool." Then I read the replies and realized I had gone to the Jedi Temple Forums.
I don't know what the Jedi Temple Forums are about.
I probably wrote too much in the original post before I got to my main point - the idea of making a crowd-funded "purist" fan film to show what may have happened before the OT. I would like to keep this thread focused on this idea from now on.
By the way, no one has answered my initial questions yet: Has this idea been considered by anyone who has the time and ressources to put it into practice? Would it be feasible from a legal point of view?
Handman said:
"So what is the best course of action to erase the prequels from our minds and replace them with something better?"
Simple. Don't bother thinking about them. But it's hard when they keep being brought up in normal conversation.
It's really hard not to get constantly reminded of Episode I-III as a Star Wars fan. And it's not just in conversation with other fans. The problem is that every commercial new Star Wars product, be it a game, book or film, will be based on a canon that includes the prequels and therefore most likely contains "prequelisms", as DuracellEnergizer put it in another thread.
Handman said:
Hey, I'm a part of this new generation of Star Wars fans! Sure, I might sometimes be called a grumpy old man, but physically, I'm far from it.
I was over-generalizing - sorry if I offended you. Judging from my discussions with friends, acquaintances, and the schoolchildren I work with, I think it's safe to say that MOST Star Wars fans in their teens (and possibly even in their early 20s) prefer the prequels. It's always nice to see exceptions to the rule!
What I find really weird are people in their 30s or 40s who claim that they've been long-time fans of the OT, but still love the prequels. I considered signing up on theforce.net until I discovered a whole thread full of these people complaining about "prequel haters".
In general, I feel that OT "purists" are the minority nowadays.
When I read the thread title, I thought I would chime in with some clever pizza analogies... looks like my idea wasn't quite as unique as I thought ;)
DuracellEnergizer said:
I wonder what kind of pizza the EU would be. Probably one that's had two-thirds of it's surface garnished with cat vomit.
Don't forget that one slice that looks pretty good and tastes somewhat like the OT pizzas. It has something blue on it.
RicOlie_2 said:
I'm curious to listen to the French dub of the Star Wars movies when I have access to some Star Wars DVDs again.
I did some research:
Apparently, most of the really weird names were only used in Star Wars (ANH) and replaced with their American counterparts in ESB/ROTJ. I've read that modern DVD releases (at least of Star Wars / ANH) were redubbed.
This means you'd have to get an old VHS tape of "La Guerre des Étoiles" to watch the adventures of Yan Solo, Chicktaba and "le Millenium Condor".
Darth Vader still seems to be known as Dark Vador, though, and C-3PO stayed Z-6PO throughout the OT but turned into C-3PO in the prequels.
I found this older thread that explains some of the peculiarities of the French dub. It looks like some French forum members liked the old Star Wars dub a lot (apart from the changes to the main protagonists' names):
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/How-Star-Wars-names-are-translated-in-non-english-countries/topic/4532/
I notice you omit the gender of the German ball-beater. Is it perhaps a busty, blonde, blue-eyed fraulein? Cuz if so, I think we've determined damn well which version of Episode Ein--I mean, Episode I--is better.
Oops, I guess you caught me with a Freudian slip of the tongue (or finger) ;)
I am aware that there’s a thread titled “What would have made the prequels better in your opinion?” I am also aware that “remaking the prequels” is an idea that has been floating around the net for a while.
However, when discussing how to remake the prequels, most people still talk about how “Episode I would have been better if Anakin did this” or “Episode II would have been better if Palpatine acted like that”.
I would prefer a different approach. My ideal approach would be to build a time machine and travel back in time to convince George Lucas not to make any prequels at all. I simply don’t see a need for any prequels. Prequels can never have the same emotional impact as the OT, because we know what’s going to happen in the end (Anakin turning into Vader etc.). Also, prequels inevitably take away from the magic of the OT (I like to think of the Clone Wars as a mysterious conflict in a time long past… I don’t need to see them in detail).
Unfortunately, the damage has been done, and there is no time machine to undo it. We have three prequels, and lousy ones at that. So what is the best course of action to erase the prequels from our minds and replace them with something better?
Waiting for a mainstream remake is no use. The retconning done by the prequels has been accepted as canon, even by most fans. More and more kids grow up with more and more Star Wars cartoons/games tainted by the prequels. Face it, the new generation of Star Wars fans consider people like us grumpy old men who aren’t open to anything new.
There is no way a fan edit can turn the prequels into good films, either. There's just too much wrong with their basic premises.
The only solution I can see:
- Make an independent fan film, preferably crowd-funded, that tells an alternative “origin story”. Ignore the prequels completely and make the film based SOLELY on clues given to us by the OT and (maybe?) the official novelizations.
- In my opinion, this alternative story wouldn’t have to consist of 3 episodes. I don’t like this “Episode so and so” stuff, anyway. For me, the OT consists of three films: Star Wars, ESB and ROTJ. A single, well executed 90-minute film or even a short film (depending on the outcome of the crowdfunding campaign) could be enough to set an example and to show that we can have our own visions of what happened before the OT.
I am sure others had this idea before me. But has anyone considered putting it into practice? Would there be any legal hurdles if it was a non-profit project? Would crowdfunding / collecting donations make it look like a commercial project?
I’m really interested in your thoughts.
German dubbing is top-notch.
Some of the voice actors are so good that I was almost a little disappointed when I heard some American actors' original voices for the first time (e.g. Bruce Willis).
Here's what Vader and the Emperor sound like in German:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BC9daxWrL8
The only other country I spent enough time in to judge the quality of their dubbing is France. When I lived there for half a year, I was really surprised by the fact that their voice actors still mangled English words and names like ours did 50 years ago (turning a "John" into a "Jean", not being able to pronounce a "th" etc.). Not to mention what they did to the original trilogy (Yan Solo and Z-6PO, anyone?).
I hear that other countries have even worse dubbing. Is it true that in some Eastern European countries, all characters are sometimes dubbed by a single person?
Of course, I prefer to watch American films in English nowadays - no matter how good the German dubbing.
As for Episode I: No, the German dubbing doesn't make it any better... unless you consider being punched in the balls repeatedly by a German person to be a better thing than getting your balls busted by an American guy.
(Funny side note: Those annoying trade federation aliens speak with a French accent in the German version of TPM.)
New member from Germany here. I've been a long-time fan of the original trilogy. They've been my favorite films since I first watched them as a kid in the early 90s or so. I also loved Timothy Zahn's books, and all those great Lucas Arts games, from Dark Forces / Jedi Knight to the X-Wing / TIE Fighter series. Playing Jedi Knight online, I joined a clan and met guys from around my country. I have many fond childhood / teen memories that are in some ways related to Star Wars.
I've been thinking about signing up on a Star Wars themed forum for a while, but there's one big problem with most forums:
The majority of people there regard the prequels as legitimate Star Wars movies, and users who strongly disagree are bashed as "prequel haters". I'm really glad I found this forum where I can freely express my opinion on the prequels. And here we go:
For some reason, prequel lovers seem to think that people like us hated the prequels from the beginning.
Quite the opposite is true. Like many of you, I WANTED the prequels to be good. From the awful title crawl of TPM to the last dull CGI battle of ROTS, I knew that something was wrong. And yet I thought "maybe you have to watch the movies again so they can grow on you". They didn’t.
However, I tried to find comfort in the fact that AOTC was a tad better than TPM, and ROTS a little better than AOTC… maybe even a good film. Maybe even a Star Wars film, just for a different, younger, more action-oriented audience.
In short – I was in denial.
I never really felt comfortable with the prequels. I knew that I liked the original trilogy much, much better, but I didn't really know how to feel about Episodes I-III.
Then came the Plinkett reviews, and they felt like therapy! They helped me put the finger on what’s wrong with the prequels (without having to watch them again). They helped me form my current opinion on the prequels: They should never have been made, and I cannot accept them as "canon", especially in those parts where they contradict the OT.