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JamesEightBitStar

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5-Mar-2004
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30-Sep-2008
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Post
#254427
Topic
McCallum on Jar Jar & Kids before TPM came out
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254427/action/topic#254427
Time
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
I think they all get better with further viewings. But I'm Lucas' bitch so what do I know.


Only heard that about a million times....

Go-Mer, the day you bring something new to the table other than defending and glorifying the PT in every post, I will add the line "I Luv Kittens" into my signature for a whole month.


I know I'm probably coming off as the official "Defender of Go-Mer" here, but in all honesty, I still don't see where the hate is coming from. In my "Jedi as Ninja" topic, I thought he DID brings some fascinating things to the table that I previously hadn't thought of--things that had a large degree of validity.

Go-Mer isn't making me like the Prequel Trilogy, but I am thinking about them in ways I hadn't before.
Post
#254230
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/254230/action/topic#254230
Time
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Well, if the aim is to provide a backstory for ANH, don't you think Owen being a Jedi would jar with the way Ben speaks about him?

Now that I think about it, you're right.

Also, I see where you're going with the Willow reference. Would Luke's mother be sneaking him out just before she's executed, then?


Possibly. Mostly what I was getting at was that Willow's plot involved an evil queen searching for a baby that she knew would destroy her. You could easily apply the same idea to Star Wars.

As for the names thing... well, I've said a bazillion times that the names in Star Wars have always been a particular peeve of mine, so sorry to say, I'm not really supportive of the idea.
Post
#253937
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253937/action/topic#253937
Time
Originally posted by: Anchorhead
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Gomer, don't lie. You wouldn't be on here 24/7 glorifying Lucas if you....

....weren't a troll seeking to disrupt a board.

A prequel \ Lucas lover wouldn't be on a board titled originaltrilogy.com otherwise.


Errr, why not? Last I remember, we were a board of people who banded together because we wanted Lucas to release the O-OT on DVD. There's nothing in that description that says you have to hate the prequels, hate Lucas, or even hate the Special Editions--as long as you want the O-OT on DVD, you fit in here.

And in all honesty I'm failing to see why everyone is up-in-arms about Gomer. He hasn't attacked or insulted anyone, except those who WANT to be offended.

Post
#253824
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253824/action/topic#253824
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-Tonic
Okay but there is a big difference between accusing Lucas of contradicting his own idea of what Star Wars is and contradicting what you assumed it was. Certainly we all have a unique point of view, and as such there is no way Lucas could ever hope to match up to the things all of us assumed around the edges, because it's different for everyone.


That's fine.

But George has done a good enough job of contradicting his "view" of Star Wars without having to put personal interpretation into it. These contradictions existed from day one and came from Lucas' changing ideas about what Star Wars is--from being a stand-alone movie to maybe getting a sequel to being this grand nine-part (and later six part) saga of which the OT was only a small part. Heck, he even had two entirely different ideas for a sequel to the original Star Wars--one got filmed and became Empire Strikes Back, and the other became the novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

In all honesty, most of the contradictions and writing decisions people complain about in the PT were already becoming quite apparent in the OT. A case in point, people complain about how ROTJ, TPM etc. have references to Earth-based things (Tarzan yells, Anakin asking Padme if she's an Angel, etc.) Nevermind the fact that in the very first Star Wars movie, Owen actually uses the line "There'll be Hell to pay," as if people who existed a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away would still abide by Christian beliefs.

That being said, as stand-alone movies I find the PT work well. But in trying to be an explanation/set-up for the OT, they fail. Even though Star Wars has always contradicted itself, by the time the PT came around Lucas' ideas had changed so much that they just couldn't mesh. If a writer writes a story and then comes back and writes more of that story fifteen or twenty years later, he won't be the same person and his ideas won't match up (I speak from experience here) and this shows. In my mind, the biggest offender is the inclusion of R2D2 and C-3PO and how they adventure around with Obi-Wan and Anakin, and yet it's obvious in A New Hope that neither Jedi recognizes either droid--and none of the other people they supposedly have met before (Owen Lars etc.) recognize the droids either. I know all sorts of excuses can be made, but it's bluntly obvious when watching A New Hope that these two droids are entirely new to every major character of the OT, and this inconsistency is hard to jive.

And it's not the only one. The PT has all sorts of high technology which has suddenly disappeared in the OT (I know you could say the Empire has something to do with that, but then why is every planet we see a barren ice/forest/desert planet?), the Jedi are so strong that they're nearly Gods whereas in the OT their powers are more subtle (I have yet to see a really strong arguement for this), and my personal pet peeve is the inclusion of all the new terminology--Padawan, Sith, etc-- and how characters suddenly all have these alien-sounding names like Quigon Jinn (as opposed to the OT where everyone had names like Luke Skywalker). where the hell were these terms in the OT? Why did Yoda never call Luke his "Padawan?" Why wasn't Luke called something like "Manwo Kweesat" or some other strange alien name? These things in my mind make it hard to see the PT as anything except more Expanded Universe, and in my mind the Expanded Universe doesn't mesh with the OT in any way, shape, or form.
Post
#253721
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253721/action/topic#253721
Time
I guess in some ways, they do connect up. Just personally, I can't see the Prequels and the OT being in the same series of movies, no more than I can see the Expanded Universe as anything more than published fanfiction. A large part of this is the inconsistencies, but also the new elements the PT and EU introduce that don't really jive with my idea of Star Wars.
Post
#253673
Topic
Star Wars most inconsistent plot point, in my opinion: Star Wars Lethal Alliance game
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253673/action/topic#253673
Time
Star Wars has always been plagued with inconsistencies, and most of them spawn from the simple fact that Episode IV: A New Hope was originally a stand-alone movie.

Only in the OT, those inconsistencies aren't jarring and only introduce questions that allow us to make up our own theories, as per the "What did the PT Need?" topic. In the Prequel Trilogy, it just makes people say "there's no way this can connect to the original trilogy."
Post
#253490
Topic
McCallum on Jar Jar & Kids before TPM came out
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253490/action/topic#253490
Time
[JOEL, CROW, and TOM SERVO enter the theatre]

Originally posted by: CO
April 1999
from Starburst Special #40

TOM SERVO: They dedicated forty specials to a fruit juice?

SPOILER WARNING: This interview discusses plot details
Producer Rick McCallum takes us inside the newest instalment in the
Star Wars saga, and looks to the future… By Ian Spelling

CROW: Ian Spelling. Ian Spelling badly. Ian Spelling good.

Ah, yes, that intended audience.

TOM SERVO: WHAT Audience? Does he mean us?

Star Wars god George Lucas

JOEL: He's been diefied? The things you miss out on when you're stuck onboard a satellite...

has deemed The Phantom Menace a film for kids (ranging in age from eight to 18).

CROW: Yea, people in their late teens will surely enjoy Jar Jar's Storybook Adventure.

Young boys will no doubt embrace Anakin (Jake Lloyd) and Jar Jar Binks (Ahmed Best) and probably even Darth Maul (Ray Park).

TOM SERVO: Regardless of the fact that Darth Maul would probably slice them to ribbons if they got anywhere near close enough to embrace him.

Young girls can root for Queen Amidala (Natalie Portman).

CROW: Yea, the queen who is forced to scrub R2D2, just the role model all little girls need!

Yet, the film runs

CROW: See film. See film run.

two hours and 13 minutes, rather long for a kid flick. Then there are the adults

TOM SERVO: Who are equally long for a kid flick.

who grew up with the first Trilogy,

CROW: The first Trilogy grew up?

who expect to recapture a bit of their youth. They may very well be in for a shock when they realize that Lucas hasn’t crafted a film for them, but for their children.

JOEL: But that's okay, because later on they'll release the films with duller covers and call them "Star Wars: the Adult Edition."

“We hope that people will say, ‘I want to see how my child experiences what I experienced,’” McCallum argues.


CROW: [McCallum] We want them to experience the thrill of being told to hunt down Brutals while reaffirming that "the gun is good."

“That’s the essence. A studio would ask, ‘Who is this movie going to be for?’ and that’s primarily why we don’t work with studios.


TOM SERVO: Because they ask you questions to which you already know the answer?

Those questions are very hard to ask and to answer.


JOEL: But you just said it's been decided that the film is for kids!

They start to undercut the film you want to make. If you start doing that you can finger-f**k everything, if you know what I mean.


TOM SERVO: Look man, leave your sick fetishes out of this interview. There are kids reading.

Then you end up with a story that is so far departed from what you originally planned on. Quite honestly, that’s the reason films are so bad.


JOEL: Yes, be held accountable to no one, have none who are willing to point out your mistakes and offer creative input! That's the kind of mindset that turns me off of independent films.

TOM SERVO: Oh come on! Surely you're not suggesting that the pure vision of a creative producer, unhassled by corperate greed, is inferior to the focus-tested, mass-marketted Hollywood shlock?

JOEL [Looks at Servo]: Manos, the Hands of Fate.

TOM SERVO: .... I.... see what you mean.

“Adults are going to be so annoyed this summer.


CROW: Are adults ever not annoyed?

Every kid will be imitating Jar Jar. There will be a lot of ‘Mooooey. Mooooey’


TOM SERVO: Jar Jar was originally a cow?

and ‘How rude!’ and a lot of Jar Jar talk. The kids at the screenings I’ve been in have loved Jar Jar.


CROW: McCallum probably means the kind that contains Cookies Cookies.

As a film-maker and a person I can say I always had problems with Jar Jar as he started to develop in the screenplay, especially in terms of the language.


TOM SERVO: Jar Jar was a pottymouth?

I loved him on paper, actually, more than I did when I saw the animation starting to come out.


TOM SERVO: [McCallum] But that morning when I woke up and found Jar Jar sleeping naked on my bed, I really began having doubts.

There was a point where I said, ‘George, is this working? Is this really...’ and George said, ‘Remember, just remember. Try to find that moment. What did you love to do with your parents? Bug them. Annoy them.’


JOEL: Most kids who remember that probably also remember being punished for it.

CROW: So... George Lucas intentionally set out to tick people off?

JOEL: Who knows. Anyway, time to go. [Picks up Servo]

[JOEL and the BOTS leave the theatre]
Post
#253425
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253425/action/topic#253425
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen

Which one sleeps with Padme Amidala and sires twins?


Well, on that note... why can't the "twins" have two different mothers?

At the same time one Anakin is sleeping with Padme, the other is sleeping with someone else... and the two just happen to be born at the same time. This would explain why Anakin is aware of Luke's identity but not Leia's.

Post
#253304
Topic
Jedi as ninja
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253304/action/topic#253304
Time
So I was watching A New Hope recently, and I got to thinking that Obi-Wan seems to depend more on stealth and tricks than on his lightsaber skills--for example, eluding those two Stormtroopers by causing them to look toward's an imagined sound.

In Empire Strikes Back, Luke also does his fair amount of sneaking around. Then there's Yoda, who manages to hide his identity--Luke doesn't figure him out until Yoda outright confesses.

So I got to wondering--I've heard the analogy before that the Jedi were either a sort of Knightly order or a Samurai-like society, but couldn't it be possible they were more akin to Ninja?

I think it would make a prequel story more interesting in that light. In Japanese history, ninja served as effective guards and peacekeepers mostly because they were not easily observed--they tended to disguise what they were by taking on mundane, everyday roles. The emperor Tokugawa defended his castle by hiring a clan of Ninja as his gardeners, case in point.

So there's a twist to the old story about how the Emperor systematically destroyed the Jedi Knights--someone would have to be an insider and betray their identities, instead of them being galactic civil servants who are known by all.

What think?
Post
#253077
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/253077/action/topic#253077
Time
It seems like every time I watch the O-OT, specifically A New Hope, I have more and more ideas. What strikes me most about that movie is how it's so open-ended because it was a stand-alone movie, so most of the backstory could go multiple ways.

Now, here's an idea I've toyed with: What if Obi-Wan WASN'T lying when he said Darth Vader killed Anakin? In other words... what if Darth and Anakin were actually two seperate people?

A weird idea I know, but just turn it over in your heads for a bit.
Post
#252804
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/252804/action/topic#252804
Time
Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Do you think a collaboration would be more productive?


At the very least, it would cause our individual ideas to mutate into something heretofore unknown, even by we the authors.

The only conflict I see so far is that I'm interested in keeping the O-OT as-is, while you seem to want to revise it. But, ideas are made of the most elastic rubber in the universe--able to bend to any proportion, and maybe that might make them better.

Post
#250805
Topic
Remember when...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250805/action/topic#250805
Time
I remember when Star Wars was just a trilogy of cool movies, not a frixing religion.

I remember when the Super Star Wars SNES games were the hottest things on the Super Nintendo.

I remember when I used to get into arguements with my friend Jerry over which was better: the SW Trilogy or the Lord of the Rings trilogy (this was in 1996, so I was comparing movies to books).

I remember when Hastings only had one small rack dedicated to Star Wars novels and not an entire flipping shelf like they do now.

I remember the Alamo.
Post
#250676
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250676/action/topic#250676
Time
The idea of C-3PO becoming a Jedi was a bit of whimsy on my part. But personally I see little reason a droid--particularly one who is obviously sentient and able to learn--should be restricted from the force.

After all, Darth Vader/Anakin was mostly mechanical and his son acquired a mechanical hand and never once was it stated that these things had any effect on their ability to use the force.
Post
#250468
Topic
"If you leave now, help them you could..."
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250468/action/topic#250468
Time
There's another line of dialogue that's always bugged me. This is from ANH:

"There'll be no escape for the princess this time."

And then later, C-3PO doesn't even recognize the princess!

Though I at least know why this one was screwed up--in the novelization 3PO says "There'll be no escape for the CAPTAIN this time." I really wish they had kept that in the movie.
Post
#250463
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250463/action/topic#250463
Time
Wow auralofflewaffle, you were right... this IS my kind of discussion!

Anyway, I've already posted my own prequel trilogy ideas in another topic. Since I think this topic's gonna outlast mine, I hope no one minds if I cut n' paste my prequel ideas:

1. The Empire. As I said in the aforementioned topic, in my prequels it would already exist. There would be no "origin of the empire" story (mostly because I thought about it, and realized the one given in the A New Hope novelization works as good as anything).

2. Darth Vader would be in all the prequels. BUT! The Vader in the first two would NOT be Anakin, but rather would be a human who has been turned into a cyborg, made from a highly-skilled bounty huntress (yes, a female Darth Vader). This Vader would be destroyed by the Jedi, only to be replaced in the third movie by an even more advanced Darth Vader who horrifies everyone because he fights like a Jedi and has control over the force! By the end of the movie, Obi-Wan would have figured out who this new Vader is, though he would not explicitly state as much. Which brings me to...

3. Anakin: Instead of a love-story/manipulation plot, Anakin Skywalker would simply be a pupil of Obi-Wan's who ignores the "peace/self defense" side of the Force and falls in love totally with the power aspect of it. In the second movie, Anakin would attempt to single-handedly take on the empire, having delusions of godhood. He'd put up an impressive show--even making Star Destroyers implode (after all, he DOES say "the power to destroy a planet is insignifigant next to the power of the Force") but a more powerful force from an unseen entity would fell him. Then, a voice would be heard commanding an imperial troop to bring him to the Emperor's ship.

4. Recurring characters from the OT: Only Obi-Wan, Anakin/Darth Vader, and maybe R2D2 and C-3PO would reappear. Other OT characters who would realistically exist at this time would never be seen (especially Yoda--remember, his first appearance was supposed to be a surprise too!) and the rest of the cast would be entirely new characters (also, absolutely NONE of them would be holdovers from George Lucas' prequels--no Quigon, no Jar-Jar, no Padme, etc.) My idea of a (sub)plot for the third movie would involve Obi-Wan trying to find a foster home for baby Luke, so he might reappear as well (albeit as a toddler).


Now, I've also had some ideas for a Sequel Trilogy.

The main thrust of it would be that, of course the Rebels won, the Empire is crumbling, the Old Republic is being restored, yada yada.

However the peace is upset by the arrival of these dark beings--nebulous shapeshifters that seem to come from the darkness of space itself. Soon these begin attacking Republic planets and destroying things. What's more is that it seems like they're led by yet another Darth Vader--one with no face (the helmet is just on a smooth ball) and who obviously isn't Anakin (since Anakin has seen the light and all.

It eventually turns out these dark beings are in fact made up of the Dark Side of the Force, and that the new, faceless vader is in fact the former Emperor. "But wait! He's dead!" says the heroes, but it turns out the Emperor (since I'm totally disregarding anything that wasn't specifically stated in the O-OT, I'm not sure I'll keep the "Palpatine" and "Darth Sidious" names) had actually developed the empire, started the war, etc. specifically to keep the forces of Good in the universe busy while he conducts experiments in immortality, and that by the time ROTJ came around he had managed to build a machine--with the guidance of the Force--that would contain his soul (this is the REAL reason he wanted Luke to kill him!), thus the new Darth Vader suit. Eventually the former Emperor becomes so powerful that he can continue living even without the machine.

As for the OT characters: Luke would be training Leia, Han would begin carrying a Lightsaber but probably not become a Jedi (I see no reason Lightsabers should belong only to Jedi), and just for kicks, maybe C-3PO grows a backbone and does some Jedi training so that he can be a better bodyguard for Leia (as well as her personal interpreter!)

And that's as far as I've gotten with that idea. Thoughts? Comments? Criticisms?
Post
#250358
Topic
My Prequel Trilogy
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250358/action/topic#250358
Time
As I said in a "What do u think of the PT?" topic, I have many ideas for a PT of my own--well okay, not that many, but the discussions and my recent revived interests in Star Wars have caused me to explore some of my own ideas. I've considered writing these as fanfiction, but I thought I would first share them with the forum and ask for input, to help develop ideas (and because I don't want to be like George Lucas and try to do everything myself, particularly because I'm better at coming up with ideas than I am at implementing them).

Anyway, here's a few ideas I have had:

1. The Empire. As I said in the aforementioned topic, in my prequels it would already exist. There would be no "origin of the empire" story (mostly because I thought about it, and realized the one given in the A New Hope novelization works as good as anything).

2. Darth Vader would be in all the prequels. BUT! The Vader in the first two would NOT be Anakin, but rather would be a human who has been turned into a cyborg, made from a highly-skilled bounty huntress (yes, a female Darth Vader). This Vader would be destroyed by the Jedi, only to be replaced in the third movie by an even more advanced Darth Vader who horrifies everyone because he fights like a Jedi and has control over the force! By the end of the movie, Obi-Wan would have figured out who this new Vader is, though he would not explicitly state as much. Which brings me to...

3. Anakin: Instead of a love-story/manipulation plot, Anakin Skywalker would simply be a pupil of Obi-Wan's who ignores the "peace/self defense" side of the Force and falls in love totally with the power aspect of it. In the second movie, Anakin would attempt to single-handedly take on the empire, having delusions of godhood. He'd put up an impressive show--even making Star Destroyers implode (after all, he DOES say "the power to destroy a planet is insignifigant next to the power of the Force") but a more powerful force from an unseen entity would fell him. Then, a voice would be heard commanding an imperial troop to bring him to the Emperor's ship.

4. Recurring characters from the OT: Only Obi-Wan, Anakin/Darth Vader, and maybe R2D2 and C-3PO would reappear. Other OT characters who would realistically exist at this time would never be seen (especially Yoda--remember, his first appearance was supposed to be a surprise too!) and the rest of the cast would be entirely new characters (also, absolutely NONE of them would be holdovers from George Lucas' prequels--no Quigon, no Jar-Jar, no Padme, etc.) My idea of a (sub)plot for the third movie would involve Obi-Wan trying to find a foster home for baby Luke, so he might reappear as well (albeit as a toddler).

That's all the ideas I could remember off the top of my head. I'll probably remember some more later. Anyway, thoughts and contributions welcome.
Post
#250336
Topic
What do you think of the <strong>Prequel Trilogy</strong>? a general discussion thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/250336/action/topic#250336
Time
Originally posted by: Windexed
Actually, not explaining how the empire came to be would have worked just fine. In fact, it probably would have been preferrable.


Especially considering that anyone who REALLY wants to know can simply read the prologue to the A New Hope novelization.

And it explained it in just over a page instead of three movies.