This user has been banned.
LexX said:
Stop trolling, Father Skywalker.
i aint trolling here. Just read my last post (s) and respond to my arguements, if U R that disagreeing with me. Dont resort to the last-resort tactic of calling somebody with a different opinion a troll....
SilverWook said:
No, it's not illegal to own an old VHS. Lucas has implied in interviews that he won't be sorry when the last tape wears out. He wants people to forget the originals. Even Laserdiscs may be unplayable someday when it's no longer possible to get a player fixed.
Even the 1997 versions are fading from people's memory. As is the theatrical cut of Episode One. Neither of these has ever been on DVD as they were in theaters.
then what is/would be illegal???
What's is the main problme/issue here, exactly???
SilverWook said:
Father Skywalker said:
I have a question about the original trilogy (the OT purism). Is it all a scale of black-and-white morality???
I mean, what if I support some of the SE special edition changes, but I am against some of them, what scale am I on there???
I am against Hayden Christensen's ghost......
What it all boils down to is this:
Do you think the original unaltered films should be available for anyone who wants to buy them or see them? There's nothing wrong with multiple versions of a film, but when you're repeatedly told you can't have those other versions ever again, (and that they're inferior in some way) not even be able to show people what they were like back then, we think there's something wrong about that.
We simply want to see the old movies we grew up as with any other classic films.
People who want the original unaltered films should have the right to buy them or see them, yes i agree with U. I have a question. R U implying that Lucasfilm wants to make it illegal/ a crime to own the original unlatered ones......
I am kinda somewhere in the middle, I actually kinda like some of the SE special edition changes, but to make it a crime to own the originals makes no sense at all.......
Will my older brother's star wars movies on VHS be confiscated now???
I hated that stupid CGI video game/anime/cartoony crappy looking Jabba the Hutt in star wars episode 4 a new hope SE special edition
Compare that CGI-looking piece of crap to this
I have a question about the original trilogy (the OT purism). Is it all a scale of black-and-white morality???
I mean, what if I support some of the SE special edition changes, but I am against some of them, what scale am I on there???
I am against Hayden Christensen's ghost......
adywan said:
SilverWook said:
Farter Skywanker said:
TV's Frink said:
The topic is when/why you became a purist. You are not one. Get out.
ok. I apologize for the oh-so terrible-and tragic news that the entire world/country and president barack obama should know about that I acidentally went off topic on an internet forum website that 7 billion people know about, I apologize for accidentally believing that writing about my disagreements with OT purists was somehow being on-topic and not off-topic.
You get out, bro......
I take a dim view of you talking to a respected member of this board like that.
Looks like someone is skating on very thin ice here. Could he soon be adding ANOTHER website to his "I've been banned" list ?
insomniac game forums-in the ratchet and clank forum.
The Jedi Council Forums/the force.net message boards forums
Twitter (for sending unsolicited messages, whatever the hell/heck that means)
Wookipedia
The Yu Gi Oh Wikipedia/Wiki
The Twilight Wikipedia/Wiki
Stargate and Star Trek Wikis
This is the last post that I'll make about this topic. Im just gonna discuss the main topic thread from now on.......
SilverWook said:
Mr. Lucas has better things to do than hang around here.
unfortunatley, yes....
SilverWook said:
Father Skywalker said:
TV's Frink said:
The topic is when/why you became a purist. You are not one. Get out.
ok. I apologize for the oh-so terrible-and tragic news that the entire world/country and president barack obama should know about that I acidentally went off topic on an internet forum website that 7 billion people know about, I apologize for accidentally believing that writing about my disagreements with OT purists was somehow being on-topic and not off-topic.
You get out, bro......
I take a dim view of you talking to a respected member of this board like that.
i wrote some posts, and other users interpreted them as being off-topic. That was totally unintentional. I had believed that what i wrote was being on-topic, which maybe it wasn't, maybe it was off-topic, but, rather than being told that politely and respectfully, he told me to simply "get out" in what I felt was a rude and an offensive post. That is why i responded so sarcastically.......
What do U mean by a respected member?? Is that implying that certain members here aren't respected, or aren't respected as much?? How do U earn that level of respect??
CapableMetal said:
Father Skywalker said:
CapableMetal said:
Father Skywalker said:
no, U R misenterperting this entire situation/thing
Star Wars Episode 3 the revenge of the Sith-darth sidious becomes emperor palpatine and gets rid of all democracy in the galactic republic.
Star wars episode 4 a new hope-the rebellion alliance exists to fight the bad guys.
in between- the empire does a lot of atrocities and stuff like that, that we are never shown in the films
Also in between-people don't agree with/don't like the empire for political reasons/they are dissenters.
the bad guys (the empire) uses the death star to destroy alderaan in order to show to the rest of the galaxy not to mess with them. Kinda like how Joseph Stalin is be-all-end all paranoia dictator/tyrant to the fullest extreme of paraoid schizophrneia, that sicko ordered purges to eleiminate all dissenters-even if the dissenters were just innocent ordinary everday unarmed civilians-It was not to spite Prinecss Leia or Jimmy Smits. even if there was no rebellion, aldearan would still have been destroyed. They already believed her, it was not for interrogation.....
the empire dissolves the senate for god-knows-why
You're reading these stories two-dimensionally. He does destroy Alderaan as a demonstration of power, yes, but he also does it despite her. Watch the scene, listen to the dialogue, look how they behave. These aren't the flat characters you find in the prequels, where all plot points are spoon fed to the audience. They resent each other, she's trying to be awkward and he's being malicious, whilst also fulfilling his overall agenda.
He dissolves the senate because they have reached a point where they don't need them. That's made painfully obvious by the prequels; Palpatine has been manipulating and orchestrating his way to power all the way through them, Ep4 is where his rule is cemented and there is no more galactic senate because he doesn't want/need them. He is in a position where no politician can oppose him (the Imperial armies/navy follows his orders!), which is why its mentioned that "the last remnants of the old republic have been swept away." There is no way this could be any more obvious, other than having a narrator explain it all to you whilst you watch it.
So far all of your arguments are focusing on one motive for this, one motive for that, but you're failing to spot parts of the context/plot that are established, and failing to realise that characters can and do have more than one motivation at a time. That's what makes them interesting.
I think you need to watch these films again, and really try to think what the motivations for these characters are. Maybe then you'll understand what I'm saying. Until then I have nothing more to add to this debate.
What Do U mean by 2 dimensionally???
Last question I'm going to answer (only because I don't have to read the script to you to answer it!).
Two dimensional in that all the characters in the prequel with the possible exception of Palpatine, are flat, dull, and boring, have very little chemistry and aren't very believable. Personal opinion, perhaps, but this is a forum where most would probably agree. Most of our focus is on the original trilogy.
Even if there was no rebellion, Alderaan still would've been destroyed......
That you will never know, so don't ignorantly state it as fact. In theory if there is no rebellion there is no need to set an example. Leia wouldn't have been there anyway, which meant they probably wouldn't have gone to Alderaan in the first place, it may have been someone else's planet, if they felt the need to set an example at all. But you don't know that with any certainty, because what happened is in the films.
You have failed to quote EU sources when asked (by others, I have little interest in the EU), you fail to properly understand the point of half the posts here, and you've continually misrepresented or seemingly completely missed what actually happens in the films and presented a single-minded understanding.
Its impossible. I'm going to sleep now.
the easiest thing to do would be to get george here. He could answer all of our speculation, plot hole questions, and hypotheticals. One of my 1000 things to do before you die things is to interview george and ask him all of my, and your, questions.
Umm, Tarkin said, "fear will keep the local star systems in line, fear of this battle station", which was a response to general tagge ( i can't stand that idiot's smoker sounding voice), saying how the emperor will maintain direct control without the beaureacy in the senate, not how they will spite the rebels.
However, i have no idea why the imperial senate on coruscant was dissolved.....
the EU (the expanded universe) explains what life was like in the empire
We only see
Tattoine
Bespin/Cloud City
We barely saw anything that went on in life in the empire, the atrocities that the empire commited. in the films it was just always assumed that they did bad evil stuff behind the scenes. It wasn't just the death stars, there must've been other factors involved. The Expanded universe (the eu) explains all of that to us......
Tyrphanax said:
CapableMetal said:
Its impossible.
Even for a computer!
what does that even mean????
TV's Frink said:
The topic is when/why you became a purist. You are not one. Get out.
ok. I apologize for the oh-so terrible-and tragic news that the entire world/country and president barack obama should know about that I acidentally went off topic on an internet forum website that 7 billion people know about, I apologize for accidentally believing that writing about my disagreements with OT purists was somehow being on-topic and not off-topic.
You get out, bro......
TV's Frink said:
Dude, you are off-topic every time you post in this thread.
not here. i am talking about OT purism, totally NOT off-topic, bro......
Tyrphanax said:
I actually grew up with the Special Editions, and only the Special Editions.
I saw the original Star Was at least once growing up sometime in the mid/late 90's. The once thing I remember from it was that first entrance of Darth Vader.
Sometime after that, my brother and I got the standard screen SE Trilogy boxed set for Christmas or a birthday... anyway, that's what we grew up with. We watched them all the time. I remember telling my older cousin who I thought was really cool that I owned the Special Editions (at the time I had no real grasp that there were differences, even though there was the little documentary on the VHS before the movie that told about them) and he thought it was awesome and I felt super cool.
The first time I really grasped that there were changes was when I was at a friend's house and we were watching Return of the Jedi, and at the end, the wrong song came on! And where were Coruscant and Tatooine and Cloud City?! What was going on! I remember remarking about it, but still not fully understanding what was going on.
I didn't think about it at all for years after that. I just watched my SE. To me, it was all there was. I had no idea there were different versions of films or anything, especially not Star Wars. Eventually I became aware of grumblings about the changes and whatnot, but didn't really pay it any mind. Han Shot First and all that. I never paid attention.
Eventually Tobar got to talking to me about the whole situation, and I was resistant at first. I mean, I had Star Wars, what was wrong with it? I just didn't really understand, and I wouldn't for awhile still. Tobar introduced me to this site, and I started coming around now and then. Lurking. Disappearing for awhile. Coming back. Eventually he got me into the fan edit scene with Ady's ANH:R and it was awesome! So much stuff was fixed that I never noticed, and that got me thinking; I checked out his Theatrical ESB release when it dropped, thinking it would be more like a novelty or a teaser for ESB:R, and there was just something about it that I liked... curious...
Eventually I checked out Harmy's original DEED and then it all clicked. The movie was so much better like that, with all the Special Edition stuff stripped out. I dunno what it was, but it flowed better now, it was like a faucet you've always had that was slow and then one day you accidentally drop something on it and it jars something loose and it runs like Niagara; it was like a different movie, and one that was so much better. IT was focused on story, not on flashy CGI distractions, distractions I had never noticed were distracting me until they weren't there. My eyes were opened.
I was hooked then.
After that, I started to learn more about the history of the changes; the hypocrisy of Lucas and his stance on film alteration, the replacement of the OT with the SE, the travesty that the changes were, the willful destruction and suppression of not only cinematic history, but cultural history as well. That was when I became a purist, and I haven't looked back since!
i loved cloud city and coruscant at the end of the special edition of star wars episode 6-the return of the jedi, i don't see/get why all of these fans and purists hate it......
CapableMetal said:
Father Skywalker said:
no, U R misenterperting this entire situation/thing
Star Wars Episode 3 the revenge of the Sith-darth sidious becomes emperor palpatine and gets rid of all democracy in the galactic republic.
Star wars episode 4 a new hope-the rebellion alliance exists to fight the bad guys.
in between- the empire does a lot of atrocities and stuff like that, that we are never shown in the films
Also in between-people don't agree with/don't like the empire for political reasons/they are dissenters.
the bad guys (the empire) uses the death star to destroy alderaan in order to show to the rest of the galaxy not to mess with them. Kinda like how Joseph Stalin is be-all-end all paranoia dictator/tyrant to the fullest extreme of paraoid schizophrneia, that sicko ordered purges to eleiminate all dissenters-even if the dissenters were just innocent ordinary everday unarmed civilians-It was not to spite Prinecss Leia or Jimmy Smits. even if there was no rebellion, aldearan would still have been destroyed. They already believed her, it was not for interrogation.....
the empire dissolves the senate for god-knows-why
You're reading these stories two-dimensionally. He does destroy Alderaan as a demonstration of power, yes, but he also does it despite her. Watch the scene, listen to the dialogue, look how they behave. These aren't the flat characters you find in the prequels, where all plot points are spoon fed to the audience. They resent each other, she's trying to be awkward and he's being malicious, whilst also fulfilling his overall agenda.
He dissolves the senate because they have reached a point where they don't need them. That's made painfully obvious by the prequels; Palpatine has been manipulating and orchestrating his way to power all the way through them, Ep4 is where his rule is cemented and there is no more galactic senate because he doesn't want/need them. He is in a position where no politician can oppose him (the Imperial armies/navy follows his orders!), which is why its mentioned that "the last remnants of the old republic have been swept away." There is no way this could be any more obvious, other than having a narrator explain it all to you whilst you watch it.
So far all of your arguments are focusing on one motive for this, one motive for that, but you're failing to spot parts of the context/plot that are established, and failing to realise that characters can and do have more than one motivation at a time. That's what makes them interesting.
I think you need to watch these films again, and really try to think what the motivations for these characters are. Maybe then you'll understand what I'm saying. Until then I have nothing more to add to this debate.
What Do U mean by 2 dimensionally???
Even if there was no rebellion, Alderaan still would've been destroyed......
So, spiting Princess Leia may have been part of the reason to destroy the planet, but it was the cataylst for it, it was not the "reason" for destroying that planet alderaan.
Now that U brought up the prequels trilogy, i'll use them to prove my point
1-Darth Sidious wants to kill all of the jedi order/knights-order 66, operation knightfall, the great jedi purge......
2-To remove a threat/political enemies
3-to get revenge against the jedi order for defeating the sith in a war that happened 1000 years ago.
Even without the revenge factor, it still would've happened. Even without the political threat to power factor, it still would have happened.
Bingowings said:
I think he would have got a team of scientists to be build the Choke Star, a battle station about the size of a large leather glove with the ability to choke whole planets.
He would then just go around choking planets by covering them in sand.
serious discussions here, no joking around.....
CatBus said:
"Purist" has changed its meaning over time for me. I saw all of the Special Editions theatrically, and preferred the originals from the very start, so I guess I was a purist right away. But it was no big deal back in 1997--I knew that these Special Editions were just the "director's cuts" (or, more accurately, executive producer's cuts), and I would just always make sure to get the theatrical version when it came out on disc. No big deal. I figured there's no way Lucasfilm would fail to make easy money off its fans, so I just needed to wait...
Well, pretty soon I started with the Laserdisc transfers on DVD, which kept me happy for a while (happier than VHS), but the technical shortcomings were pretty apparent even then. I still believed the OT would come out eventually and this whole "the SE is all there is" was just BS to appease Lucas's ego in the short term while they arranged a proper OT release behind the scenes. A few more years went by and the GOUT was released, which was the first time I actually really understood what they were doing to Star Wars. And then The Blu-rays eliminated all further doubt by dropping the "Special Edition" label. They meant to eliminate Star Wars from history and replace it with the Special Editions, and they were succeeding.
Now I'm a pretty dyed-in-the-wool purist by any standards. And the funny thing is, I wouldn't really even describe myself as a Star Wars fan. I mean, I like the movies and all, but I like a lot of others better.
im somewhere in the middle, i guess......
SilverWook said:
Actors tend to burst into flame, and are expensive to replace.
i dont understand what u r trying to say here........
CapableMetal said:
Father Skywalker said:
CapableMetal said:
Father Skywalker said:
Tyrphanax said:
Father Skywalker said:
High taxes, trade rescritions, no personal rights and freedoms, are what Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker's epic and dramatic redemption is about???? No!!!!!!!
So, millions of people with families that they loved and cared about and who grieved for their losses were horribly burned to death in two fiery explosions
Just so people could have lower taxes????? What the????????
What about all the innocents who died on Alderaan, a civilian target? Did nobody there have families? Those attacks were unprovoked. If Princess Leia stole the plans, shouldn't they have killed her instead of blowing up a whole planet full of people who had nothing to do with the stolen plans and were peaceful, happy citizens of the Empire?
The Death Stars, however, were military targets, controlled and manned by military personnel, all of whom joined the military knowing the risks of being in the military. No peaceful innocent citizens on those at all.
you contradicted urself because u first said that the empire destroyed alderaan with the DS1 (the first death star) to interrogate/spite princess leia organa, however, you also just said that it was destroyed for unprovoked reasons. Well, which is it????
It's kind of both.
You have seen these films haven't you?
yes i have
how can it be kinda both at the same time????
I thought it was all obvious...
He threatens her with the destruction of Alderaan unless she tells him where the rebel base is (interrogation).
He then says, that she's "far too trusting" and proceeds to blow it up anyway (spite) and it was unprovoked because the people of Alderaan hadn't done anything.
It's all in that one scene.
As Tyrphanax said, if they really wanted to they could have just taken it out on Leia, but they chose to make her watch whilst they mercilessly destroyed her home planet.
no, U R misenterperting this entire situation/thing
Star Wars Episode 3 the revenge of the Sith-darth sidious becomes emperor palpatine and gets rid of all democracy in the galactic republic.
Star wars episode 4 a new hope-the rebellion alliance exists to fight the bad guys.
in between- the empire does a lot of atrocities and stuff like that, that we are never shown in the films
Also in between-people don't agree with/don't like the empire for political reasons/they are dissenters.
the bad guys (the empire) uses the death star to destroy alderaan in order to show to the rest of the galaxy not to mess with them. Kinda like how Joseph Stalin is be-all-end all paranoia dictator/tyrant to the fullest extreme of paraoid schizophrneia, that sicko ordered purges to eleiminate all dissenters-even if the dissenters were just innocent ordinary everday unarmed civilians-It was not to spite Prinecss Leia or Jimmy Smits. even if there was no rebellion, aldearan would still have been destroyed. They already believed her, it was not for interrogation.....
the empire dissolves the senate for god-knows-why
I mean, they already managed to bring it down to the ground. They pulled the ropes around it and it collapsed into the snow. What the hell/heck was the point of blowing it up??? It kinda seems pointless and redundant to me. It was already, for all practical purposes, destroyed, in a sense, pulled down to the ground. So why go even further and destroy it???
SilverWook said:
You told me everything I needed to know. The rest was logical deduction.
i still dont understand/get how you found out that im on the jedi council forums TFN (the force.net)
U R a really smart person, i aint being sarcastic or mean or rude or anything like that, but im being honest with you right now here. U R very good at finding out stuff, its actually very suprising........
is my extreme punctuation annoying to U???
I hate all of the lame CGI BS bullcrap in the prequels. They had potential, but George toy-boy Lucas threw that potential in the trash like a piece of food......
For instance, for Mustafar, why not use a real volcano, or at least a bit/lot less CGI??? Maybe like that volcano from the lords of the rings movies. Mount Doom. That area looked real. Mustafar in star wars episode 3-revenge of the sith looked like some high-tech play station 3 video game.......
film it in a real location, for god's sakes!!!!
SilverWook said:
By doing the exact same thing you did at TFN?
all i said on this thread was that i liked the Victory celebration song better than yub nub, so I am not a 100% OT original trilogy purist, although i do agree with many of their main ideas/points.
Also, How do u know that i was on the jedi council forums??? Who told u???
SilverWook said:
But as a mod, I enforce the rules. You're pushing the envelope.
how am i pushing the rules right now????
SilverWook said:
Again, you totally miss the point of this website, and why it exists.
1-it aint my site and i dont make the rules here but according to u i aint breaking any rules by having different opinions than u and the other guys that r on this forum website
2-i partially agree and i partially disagree with u
CapableMetal said:
Father Skywalker said:
Tyrphanax said:
Father Skywalker said:
High taxes, trade rescritions, no personal rights and freedoms, are what Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker's epic and dramatic redemption is about???? No!!!!!!!
So, millions of people with families that they loved and cared about and who grieved for their losses were horribly burned to death in two fiery explosions
Just so people could have lower taxes????? What the????????
What about all the innocents who died on Alderaan, a civilian target? Did nobody there have families? Those attacks were unprovoked. If Princess Leia stole the plans, shouldn't they have killed her instead of blowing up a whole planet full of people who had nothing to do with the stolen plans and were peaceful, happy citizens of the Empire?
The Death Stars, however, were military targets, controlled and manned by military personnel, all of whom joined the military knowing the risks of being in the military. No peaceful innocent citizens on those at all.
you contradicted urself because u first said that the empire destroyed alderaan with the DS1 (the first death star) to interrogate/spite princess leia organa, however, you also just said that it was destroyed for unprovoked reasons. Well, which is it????
It's kind of both.
You have seen these films haven't you?
yes i have
how can it be kinda both at the same time????