logo Sign In

ETQ06213

User Group
Members
Join date
18-Nov-2013
Last activity
26-Aug-2015
Posts
21

Post History

Post
#676303
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

For my own curiosity, was THX scanned from the OCN or the IP? The original opticals are clearly used (look at the dissolve at the end of the first factory scene, where the color grading tries to compensate for the revised factory colors during the fade) but I don't know if they were printed then cut into the negative or the negative was A/B-cut for dissolves.

@DarthAss - My framerate is 23.976. So long as we're both at 1080p and the same framerate, we should be able to intercut just fine.

I did color-grade the Buck Rogers trailer but I left the green font of the opening credits based on screencaps from this thread which showed other pre-2004 releases also being green (this, other than the Kinney logo, was the only thing I sided with the Blu-ray on). I have around ten shots in the works:

Among the finished are the albino lizard (roto'd out the antennae and wings but I want to refine the background a little more), one of LUH's control room shots (removing the green bokeh in the top-left corner), the extended hallway before the escalator (I used split-screens), a control room shot (another split-screen since both the man on the right and the monitors were altered).

In-progress are the door with the "3" on it (since it covers more area, the original can be laid underneath it with no other roto, but it needs to be stabilized-- curiously the close-up two shots before has the door's original signage intact), the shot behind THX viewing the hologram (THX and the chair on the left of frame are the only elements remaining of the Blu-ray), and the horizontal pan of THX in the factory at the beginning (this shot is where I'm having anamorphic distortion problems on the original material).

The opening "grid" shot I intend to re-create completely since the raw clip they used is in the film itself and unaltered, but I'm having trouble lining the original grid to the footage; may need to roto the Blu-ray clip itself to get the alignment precise. I will only be satisfied re-creating it if it's *exactly* like the original, so there's always the LD if it doesn't work.

Roto is done in AE (I do not have Mocha Pro which would make this a *lot* easier) precisely to the edges, but when layering it over the LD, a heavy feather (30-40px) results in the best blend. To reconcile the anamorphic distortion of LD elements, I split them into two images (the right side has more horizontal compression). The LD is then color-matched, noise-reduced and with new grain added to match it up with the Blu-ray. It's pretty advantageous that the film is shot with shallow focus and originally shot against solid backgrounds as even my IVTC'd Angrysun clips blend in (I have a *much* bigger problem with my IVTC artifacts than the resolution differences).

Post
#675408
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

DarthAss said:

ETQ06213 said:

I'm matching colors to the Angrysun rip for now (with Black Input levels calibrated so the letterbox bars are black), first by waveform then calibrating by eye. I also re-color the LD cuts when necessary to match the corrected Blu-ray footage. When a better source comes along I'll match to that.

On that note, what's the opinion on the NTSC LD's colors versus the PAL LD?

Do you mind me making a despecialized version myself? There's no harm in having a choice between 2 versions.

 

While I don't have any objections to it (as the nature of these fan preservations is open source), if we're both doing it we could despecialize different shots and get it done with more efficiency.

If you're interested, my conform is edited from the raw VC-1 Blu-ray rip (thanks to MeGUI's AVS generator which works flawlessly on CS4) and clips to be despecialized are exported at 1:1 resolution in Lagarith, where I use a 1920x822 center crop (the Blu-ray is *very slightly* windowboxed at 1-3 pixels and that's how much of the letterboxing bars I leave in to ensure I have the entire image).

Post
#675271
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

I'm matching colors to the Angrysun rip for now (with Black Input levels calibrated so the letterbox bars are black), first by waveform then calibrating by eye. I also re-color the LD cuts when necessary to match the corrected Blu-ray footage. When a better source comes along I'll match to that.

On that note, what's the opinion on the NTSC LD's colors versus the PAL LD?

Post
#674770
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

I assume the VHS is the same transfer as well?

Since I'd be using multiple sources for the unaltered/despecialized shots anyway, the subtitles can be removed and covered with another source if necessary. What I can do is compile a reel of every shot I've found to be altered or removed so if mysycamore or anyone else is willing, they can send just those shots.

Post
#674761
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

Seeding the Italian cut now.

The Blu-ray contains crushed blacks and sometimes just crushed in one channel (most often Red), but I'll go into video processing help when I need it (would it be incorrect to assume I can fill in the crushed blacks with the LD?).

Is the Japanese Pan-and-Scan LD being worked on? I've found a few shots already with the Italian cut where stitching the pan-and-scan image is possible (the unaltered holograms as a primary example), but it is a truncated edit with heavy print damage including tape splices, fluctuating brightness levels and missing frames.

Or, even weirder question: is it possible to use a TooT/Median-style filter to accomplish that type of stitching?

Post
#674591
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

AntcuFaalb said:

What master was used to make the LBX NTSC LD? An IP print?

Judging by the anamorphic distortion (the Blu-ray contains none of this and was most likely pulled from a 2-perf Techniscope element) and the white speck which appears to have been sucked into the optical printer, it was probably a 4-perf blow-up. If not the IN itself, most likely an IP struck from it.

Post
#673615
Topic
Info & Discussion: Fullscreen Laserdisc / DVD Preservations
Time

SilverWook said:

ETQ06213 said:

Checked the opening sequence for "Octopussy" and it appears the titles were recomposited as they fit cleanly into the corners of the 4x3 frame with a clearly undistorted picture. This is my guess anyways as I have no letterbox copy for reference.

http://youtu.be/Md8uNCYX_Nc

Wish I could still find a split screen comparison someone posted to youtube for A View to a Kill. One side was a videotaped copy clearly recomped for tv, but I can't recall what the original source of that was.

I remember seeing a split-screen comparison for "Licence to Kill" (which had the recomposited titles already noted in iMDB's Alternate Versions page).

That pretty much confirms the "Octopussy" titles were redone for pan-and-scan, down to credits being divided over more lines such as:

Titles Designed by
MAURICE BINDER

becomes

Titles
Designed by
MAURICE
BINDER 

I also own "You Only Live Twice" and "On Her Majesty's Secret Service", which were most likely squeezed.

Post
#673586
Topic
Info & Discussion: Fullscreen Laserdisc / DVD Preservations
Time

At least in the case of T2, digital VFX were hard-matted at 2.00:1 as a compromise between saving render time and giving room to reframe later. "The Abyss" would be an interesting one to find out because only one sequence contains digital effects (two in the SE) and all but one shot of the Pseudopod sequence was composited optically.

The screener VCD copy of "The Matrix" contains more of the Super 35 area than was clearly intended to be seen (some examples pointed out on its thread) and at least one CG effect of a bullet flying towards the screen was hard-matted all the way but composited over the full-frame. The Wachowskis refused to release a Fullscreen DVD and I recall looking at an examples page years ago that showed the VHS version as completely cropped during numerous scenes.

Post
#672784
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

I'm going on a case-by-case basis with the digitally-extended shots, but for the most part I'll deal with a frame enlargement if it looks better than a Laserdisc upscale. Most of the ones I've looked at were expanded around 150-200% the size of the original.

The example shot you listed is one where I opted to stick with the original version after looking at it enlarged (somewhere around 300%, film grain now getting noticeably pixellated), due less to resolution than the amount of frames it's already missing.

I haven't seen the Angrysun LD preservation but I've heard it's (only) passable. For this, msycamore's preservation, SilverWook made an excellent cap (see this thread's page 2 for samples). AntcuFaalb is presently working on a new cap that should be better still, perhaps the best possible from a laserdisc source.

I have indeed read through every page of this thread and those caps are a sight after spending hours looking at IVTC'd Angrysun blow-ups.

I would recommend (if it isn't too late) that you make your corrections independent of any particular laserdiscsource. That way you can easily drop in another source (like the SW or AF cap?) for a better result with the least amount of redundant effort.

All of my roto work so far has been entirely on the Blu-ray clips for precisely that future-proofing reason. I wouldn't want to opt out of an SW or AF cap because I'd already done hours and hours of roto on Angrysun clips. ;)

Post
#672549
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

That is correct, in short "Despecializing" it. I'm currently going through a first color pass checked against RGB Parade waveforms- using Levels at this point but I'll probably use more advanced tools to take care of each material's respective color shift (the Blu-ray is glued to reds while the LD is attached to greens). I do as much roto work on the Blu-ray footage as possible to accommodate better unaltered sources in the future.

Italian cut is now downloading, thanks!

Post
#672244
Topic
THX 1138 "preservations" + the 'THX 1138 Italian Cut' project (Released)
Time

I've just finished a first pass at conforming the Blu-ray to the cut present on the Laserdisc (using the Angrysun edition). The color grade has, of course, been extremely altered and several scenes were rearranged, but other than THX's initial meeting with SEN and the factory sequences I didn't find much that was completely re-edited.

There's the movie-censorship article which cites most of the alterations so I'm only giving additional observations: 

-Two out of three of the SEN shots removed from the opening were found later on the Blu-ray with no missing or modified frames (the first extreme close-up is gone).

-The opening "grid" shot, which was modified with monitor/scanlines, is pulled from a clean shot before the trial, meaning it can be re-created.

-From the trial sequence up until the escape to the crowded mass the two edits are almost completely identical. *Almost* because I spotted missing frames on the Angrysun version (no idea how that happened), two missing frames from the Blu-ray, and only one digital alteration when THX and SEN walk off into the horizon (the food squares SEN drops don't fade to white on the Blu-ray).

-Most of the horizontally flipped shots were spotted except a couple during the white prison escape. I only noticed one digital alteration that wasn't spotted (unless it's Blu-ray only): the bird's-eye view shot of the officers at 1:04:06 (Angrysun timecode) has an added foreground that resembles looking down a manhole cover.

 

Quantified in minutes, starting after the opening credits

72:12:47 of the film exists intact on the Blu-ray

9:51:13 has been modified, including shots with missing frames

2:36:12 has been removed entirely

 

I've begun rotoscoping (a la Harmy) on some of the simpler shots and noticed the LD transfer doesn't fit the Blu-ray 1:1, which I'm pretty sure is because the LD was pulled from an anamorphic print while the Blu-ray/DVD was directly from a Techniscope element (if not the negative)-- your pesky white speck in the last third could be something that got sucked into the optical printer during the blow-up process. Is there a simple way to rectify anamorphic distortion?

(Software I am using is Adobe Premiere and After Effects CS4)

As some of these shots only modify a small part of the frame, I'd find the pan-and-scan versions to be useful to work with. Are there any seeders for the Italian cut (or any other pan-and-scan version)?

Post
#672222
Topic
Info & Discussion: Fullscreen Laserdisc / DVD Preservations
Time

"Innerspace" is among a few of Spielberg's produced films that got early letterboxed releases, along with "The Color Purple" which was always letterbox-only.

widescreen.org's favorite unmatted gaffes to cite were the boom mic in "The Princess Bride" (which they also knew was digitally erased in later video issues) and John Cleese's "nude scene" in "A Fish Called Wanda" which obviously spoiled the gag. The one I'm surprised isn't mentioned nearly as often is "Dr. Strangelove" which, despite Kubrick's approval of the transfer, shows things that clearly weren't intended to be projected like the notorious A-bomb shot (only Kong and the A-bomb were full-frame, while the rear projection was already matted.

("Lolita" on LD reportedly has a similar "multi-aspect" presentation which, unlike "Dr. Strangelove", was not presented this way on DVD. I have the LD of "A Clockwork Orange" which was said to have variable aspect ratios, but it's a straight-up 1.66:1 transfer that simply employs windowboxing for the titles and the newspaper towards the end)

I spotted a VHS of "Manhattan" some years ago with the standard pan-and-scan disclaimer (the printing was somewhere around 1996) but I have no idea if it was a misprint or done with the hope that Woody wouldn't have noticed (he did sue a TV station once for showing it in pan-and-scan). The 1984 LD has the letterboxing disclaimer on the front mentioning "grey bars" but they looked as close to black as grey can get.

Somewhere in the early 90's, possibly influenced by how Super 35 films were transferred, 1.85:1 films would occasionally crop just the close-ups (Robert Altman's "The Player" as a noted example) while transferring the rest open matte.

Post
#672208
Topic
Info & Discussion: Fullscreen Laserdisc / DVD Preservations
Time

The first laserdisc issue of Paul Verhoeven's "Total Recall" was open matte, reportedly at the director's request. The original R1 DVD release contains a full frame version.

I've been trying to track down the standard version of "The Robe" myself for just that reason. Disney enthusiasts would already know "Lady in the Tramp" had a 1.33:1 version shot simultaneously, which came to good use for VHS and LD releases (the DVD only restored the CinemaScope version so its 4x3 version is pan-and-scan).

I do not have "Radio Days" but I did spot it last time I went Laserdisc shopping, but I do have "Crimes and Misdemeanors" (not open matte but most of Woody's 1.85:1 films have composed with a 4x3 safe area) and "Annie Hall" (available unmatted on DVD but this does have the original subtitles). Completely the opposite on the full-frame topic, I have two editions of Allen's letterbox-only "Manhattan", including the original 1984 LD which has the picture slightly squished around 2.00:1.

A particularly fascinating set of films to look at is the original "Indiana Jones" trilogy. "Raiders of the Lost Ark" is arguably unintelligible in pan-and-scan, but when you get to "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" the framing was clearly made TV-safe (Doug Pratt's Laserdisc review actually stated a preference for the full-frame version of "Last Crusade"). These are available on DVD with the title sequences letterboxed (the original VHS releases electronically recomposited them onto pan-and-scan).

I'll get a look at the 007 films, which I'm going to guess had the title sequences squeezed.

Post
#672087
Topic
Info & Discussion: Fullscreen Laserdisc / DVD Preservations
Time

"El Mariachi" is another indie that hasn't been digitally released in its original 4x3 aspect ratio (curiously the "Once Upon a Time in Mexico" supplements *do* show clips from the film this way... which is in turn a film that hasn't been on home media in anything *but* unmatted).

"Invasion of the Body Snatchers" was likely framed for standard 1.85:1 projection (which most films by this point were-- try this with "Plan 9 from Outer Space" and you won't see as many mistakes), which is what I'd love to see a digital release of the film in. I haven't checked too closely as to whether the ubiquitous 2.00:1 SuperScope blow-up crops this framing vertically or adds the 3mm to the left of the image that would have been covered by the soundtrack.

While I do believe many open-matte films were intended for widescreen framing, I do think almost all of Ralph Bakshi's work is better unmatted, Soderbergh's "The Good German" is a fullscreen-only DVD release I don't detest and Warren Beatty's "Dick Tracy" looks more at home in 4x3.

I have seen "Ben-Hur" in pan-and-scan on the 1988 MGM VHS (released on LD around the same time with presumably the same transfer) and I can see the OP's fascination, if this is to say seeing how well these films hold together in a form they're clearly not intended to be in.

By this point, the then-standard practice of letterboxing the chariot race was implemented with the frame zooming out as the horses entered the arena (I cannot remember if it zoomed back in after it was done or did a straight cut). The reel-change marks indicated this was clearly sourced from a 35mm anamorphic print, and it was no more than 2.35:1 (probably closer than 2.20:1). The American Widescreen Museum loves to gripe about the 2.76:1 negative ratio that all video editions nowadays use, stressing that the film was rarely exhibited in this aspect ratio and was widely seen in 2.50:1 (35mm, slightly letterboxed) or 2.20:1 (standard 70mm).

I will need to look through my Laserdisc collection to see what LDs I own in pan-and-scan/unmatted, mostly the ones I inherited as I'm letterbox-only on everything but VHS. It does include at least a couple 007 movies (The Spy Who Loved Me, Octopussy and the unofficial Never Say Never Again), 2001: A Space Odyssey and Ghostbusters ("Top Gun" is redundant since its 4x3 version was on the original DVD and the time-compressed "Star Wars" and "The Empire Strikes Back" because... well, you know).

Post
#672084
Topic
Pioneer LD-660 Video Out
Time

For the last nine years I have been enjoying Laserdiscs on the old Pioneer LD-660 (ca. 1983), which has RCA outputs only for stereo sound and three RF-style outputs. I've used the main Ch.3/4 RF output to stream the video signal through my VCR but was always curious about the "Video Out" and whether it offers better quality.

Below is a manual scan with the description and output boxed in red and a link to the manual itself. Thanks!

http://www.manualscenter.com/manuals/pioneer/ld660-owner-manual.html