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DougieP

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5-Apr-2017
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19-May-2019
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38

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Post
#1278370
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

RogueLeader said:

Also wanted to say despite my disagreements with OP and some others, I’m glad you guys feel like this is a pretty positive environment to discuss stuff. I might argue with people on here every once in a while, but it is all in good faith and I enjoy talking about it with you all!

Exactly. Nothing wrong with a friendly debate. 😃

Post
#1278342
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

DominicCobb said:

DougieP said:

screams in the void said:

to be fair , the film makers actually acknowledge in The Last Jedi that Rey’s powers are not the norm . Snoke says to Kylo , "you were unbalanced , bested by a girl who never held a lightsaber "!

The film makers do but, more importantly, the characters within the film don’t. For example Yoda trained jedi for years, including Luke. Very difficult task but Rey doesn’t need any at all. Yet Yoda doesn’t say “Amazing this is. Need to watch her we do. This much power, pull her to the dark side it can” or anything like that at all. No one bats an eye as if this is the norm.

Have you seen the film?

JEDIT: I’m sorry, it occurred to me the line I’m thinking of is in the trailer as well

Yes, 3 times. I had to rack my brain to realise what you are talking about. You mean Luke, right? “I’ve seen this raw strength only once before in Ben Solo. It didn’t scare me enough then. It does now.” I guess your right, you got me there.

I guess i’m just looking for more. Outside of this line its not addressed (your probably going to correct me again here?) at least not to the extent that I would expect. For example, my partner has no idea at all how to drive a car. Not a single thing. I had to tell her what a clutch was for a while back. If I put her in a Formula 1 car she wouldn’t be able to win the race. If she did though, imagine how insane that would be. Everyone would be chatting about it.

Rey is very similar to this. Picking up the lightsaber (it started before this actually) and just wins and wins. Its a very different way of becoming a master that we have never seen before. Even the “chosen one” needed training. Why wasn’t there are conversation about it between Yoda and Luke? It doesn’t seem like LF are going to address it ether.

The only way I can possibly think on how to explain this whole thing is that Snoke was Darth Plagueis. Plagueis could bring people back to life/create life, he created Anakin as he had no dad. Snoke/Plagueis found a way to bring himself back to life in the afterworld. Because he is even more powerful now, he can create the chosen one 2.0 - Rey. Thats the only explanation i can come up with to explain all of this.

Post
#1278340
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

screams in the void said:

to be fair , the film makers actually acknowledge in The Last Jedi that Rey’s powers are not the norm . Snoke says to Kylo , "you were unbalanced , bested by a girl who never held a lightsaber "!

The film makers do but, more importantly, the characters within the film don’t. For example Yoda trained jedi for years, including Luke. Very difficult task but Rey doesn’t need any at all. Yet Yoda doesn’t say “Amazing this is. Need to watch her we do. This much power, pull her to the dark side it can” or anything like that at all. No one bats an eye as if this is the norm.

Post
#1278076
Topic
Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's
Time

KurganX said:

DougieP said:

Yes to all of this. Very deflated by the ST and probably gonna skip 9. 6 was a good ending.

Probably just going to stick with Dave Filonis work from now on. He seems to get it. The GOT guys might make something good too.

I never gave GOT a chance, partly because I needlessly ignore any popular hyped tv series (Lost, Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Walking Dead), but also because it struck me as a low-rent LOTR that was trying way too hard to be edgy and iconoclastic (there’s a reason LOTR is still beloved, and it’s not because its fans are gullible, racist or stupid). People love it though… I personally can’t wait until its over and I can stop hearing about it. 😉 Being a hard-core jaded cynical curmudgeon ain’t easy!

That they will keep making Star Wars movies forever is understandable. Who can say “no” to all of that money? But I’d rather it die than keep going down the drain like this (and foster a toxic divided fandom as well). To me the stories of these movies would have been better as video games or comics than as legit “canon” installment in the film saga. They’re just the sort of thing you’d expect as a convenient excuse to insert the player into the action and do stuff within the universe that you wanted.

Never watched it myself ether but according to some news sites, the GoT guys agree that Star Wars is currently “lacking decent storytelling” so thats promising.

Post
#1258881
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

DougieP said:

yotsuya said:

I can see this. Abrams originally was handling the first film more like a series pilot - he was not expecting to come back and expected others to continue the story. So I can see where he and Kennedy would have plotted the arc of the trilogy. And we know some things were held over from George’s version. I think the course of IX was set during the production of TFA, though the details of the story were up to whoever did it. I hope at some point we get to find out what plot points were set at what time. It would amuse me to find out that some of the plot points in TLJ that people are so pissed about came from Lucas or Abrams.

It has been clearly stated by KK that she threw out Georges plans for the ST. Rj also confirmed that there were no plans at all for the ST moving forward after 7. Its all online. If needed, I can get links.

Fake news. They weren’t thrown out completely. They ditched some of the most ridiculous stuff (like doubling down on midichlorians with his version of the Whills), yeah, but the broad strokes regarding Luke are the same, just pushed back to VIII. I’m willing to bet more stuff will be revealed in the coming years about his outlines that will either show A) they were still more or less adhered to the way the Luke stuff was more or less adhered to, or B) they were so vague and sketchy beyond the stupid Whills/midichlorians stuff that they really couldn’t be used.

Specific quotes from the article I linked:

basically, what we got from the Rey/Luke storyline in The Last Jedi was initially supposed to be the bones for George Lucas’ Episode 7

30 years after the fall of the Empire, Luke had gone to a dark place and secluded himself in a Jedi temple on a new planet.

the initial plan for Star Wars: Episode 7 was that Luke, over the course of that movie, would rediscover his vitality and train this new Jedi.

The new Jedi was:

a new disciple named Kira (who was later renamed Rey)

And as for why Luke’s stuff was pushed back to VIII from VII:

Everyone realized that Luke Skywalker would better serve the needs of the story as the person that everyone seeks but does not find until the final scene of The Force Awakens. This allowed Han Solo more time as the mentor of the story

And if you really wanted Lucas’ full plans for the sequel trilogy, well, from George himself…

[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force. … Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we are just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in … we’re vessels for them. And the conduit is the midi-chlorians. The midi-chlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force.

I don’t think that sounds any better than anything in TFA or TLJ. Do you? Really?

Yes, I agree that you are right in a few of your statements but definitely not all. I can easily argue against most of your arguments but don’t want to derail the convo from the subject of the topic (9 spoiler discussion). If you want to elsewhere, then sure, I enjoy debate. Whether it be in PM or public. But just to latch onto your last question, no, I dont believe that what has happened is better.

Post
#1258871
Topic
General Star Wars Questions
Time

SilverWook said:

Presumably she did some things that were illegal even by Old Republic standards. Streaking is still a crime no matter who’s running the galaxy. 😛

Thanks for your answer but im looking for a more provable explanation. I don’t think the Rebels would mind their own troops resisting arrest by the empire as it would only help themselves. To be more clear, im thinking of cutting this outrage over her being a criminal in my fanedit as I see no reason for them to think this way.

Post
#1258869
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

I can see this. Abrams originally was handling the first film more like a series pilot - he was not expecting to come back and expected others to continue the story. So I can see where he and Kennedy would have plotted the arc of the trilogy. And we know some things were held over from George’s version. I think the course of IX was set during the production of TFA, though the details of the story were up to whoever did it. I hope at some point we get to find out what plot points were set at what time. It would amuse me to find out that some of the plot points in TLJ that people are so pissed about came from Lucas or Abrams.

It has been clearly stated by KK that she threw out Georges plans for the ST. Rj also confirmed that there were no plans at all for the ST moving forward after 7. Its all online. If needed, I can get links.

Post
#1258865
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

fmalover said:

It’s been established that exerting your Force powers too much could be potentially lethal…

I guess what your saying is dependant on whether or not your personal cannon includes the sequel trilogy. If yes then cool but for me this is not possible. Yoda states that using the force is a matter of will, not physical strength.

LUKE
Master, moving stones around is one thing. This is totally different.

YODA
No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned.

Luke would never die from using the force as you cant die from willpower. If my will was that I was a billionaire, I wouldn’t die from it.

Everyone was annoyed when George changed how the force works in the PT, but Disney has now changed it again to something totally different and no one cares. The prequels version of the force and midiclorians is far closer to Georges OT version of the force than Disneys version is. Yet “the PT changed it so its bad!! ST is great though”

Post
#1258860
Topic
General Star Wars Questions
Time

Rogue One. Jyn gets told a list of her crimes after busting her out of imperial prison (cant remember them off the top of my head but one of them is “resisting arrest”). This is ok I guess, they are just reminding her of what imperial laws she has broken to warrant her arrest by said imperials. Later, however, during the discussion on whether to believe her or not about her fathers message, they say something along the lines of “why should we believe this criminal?” surely it doesn’t matter to them that she broken imperial law? Can anyone give a good explanation?

Post
#1258638
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

fmalover said:

Since many of you have discussed how Rey is so OP in the Force I’d like to say you know which character should have been portrayed as having Rey’s talents with the Force? Anakin Skywalker.

Think about it. Throughout the OT both Obi-Wan and Yoda talk about how strong Anakin was with the Force, but once the prequels were done we never actually saw him do anything particularly impressive with the Force. All we see him do is move stuff around and do pretty ordinary stuff with the Force. Anakin should have been the one shown doing all the things Rey does without breaking a sweat, like instinctively Force pushing enemies to defend himself, or telekinetically pulling a lightsaber towards his hand and instantly knowing how to wield it, much like Rey does in TFA.

Yes but if Anakin was like Rey then he would be able to do everything and have no struggles at all. I dont think thats what George was going for, nor do I like the idea. There needs to be some level of tension.

Post
#1258132
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

SilverWook said:

Luke was wounded, and probably slowly freezing to death. And you try Force pulling your saber with the blood rushing to your head! 😉

Lol yeah you are right again, and I will fully admit that. But that doesn’t change my mind that I feel like Disneys version of force users are far too powerful and learn too quickly. Like I said, Rey learns all of Lukes/Anakins skills in 1 film, unlike their 3. Rey already beat Kylo in the first film, there is no tension at all for the final film. Ether she will beat him yet again or Kylo will just say “yeah, being bad is bad” and become good. They could have made Reys powers work. For example, Snoke could have been Darth Pleagusus, he learned how to bring others back to life, now his own. He made Anakin 2.0 - Rey. So insanely powerful that she can do everything really quickly and needs no training. But this doesnt correct the issue that there is no tension at all. Thats the whole point in NOT making your jedi godlike. It ruins the tension. What I also find funny is that the other characters dont even act like this is a first. The most insanely powerful force user ever but Yoda and Luke arnt fussed.

On top of this, and I know that this is irrelevant to our convo, but they constantly crack jokes at the bad guys and, as a viewer, I cant help but feel the same. They are to be laughed at. For example, before 7 was out I thought Kylo looked daft but when I seen him in movie form, at the beginning of the film, with the voice, attitude etc I realised that I was wrong. Buuuut…then Poe mocks him and, as a viewer, my perception of the bad guy comes from how the heros feel about him. Kylo is a good bad guy for 2 mins and then he is a joke for the entire sequel trilogy. Beaten, joked and mocked about multiple times.

Post
#1258120
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

SilverWook said:

All broom boy did was levitate a broom. It’s been implied Luke was subconsciously tapping into the Force which helped his piloting skills on Tatooine before he was even aware of it. Ditto for young Anakin. That’s not instant knowledge of the Force.

When the Jedi went looking for Force sensitive kids, I imagine levitating small light objects is one of the tells. Another child might display precognitive abilities. Still another might be a great pod racer. They would be pretty hard to find otherwise.

Yeah I get all that. The problem I find with it is that Luke clearly struggled to get his lightsaber, far older than broom boy who pulls the broom towards him without a care. Also Reys first ever lift with heavy objects (the boulders) is done with ease. That was deffinetly not something that Luke taught her. Rey did everything that Luke did throught the whole OT in just TFA. Then we are to belive that she is going to Luke for training?

Post
#1258115
Topic
The Sequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread (Radical Ideas Welcome).
Time

Hope you all dont mind me jumping in here. There is an idea that I had ages ago that might mesh well with some of these other ideas. I actual have a rough cut of this and it works well. Might properly start this project after 9 comes out and I can get a better grip on how the mashup will go. Anyway:

Episode 7 - Have most of the opening of TFA as it is (until i can think of something else) up until Rey and Finn escape Jakku with BB8, ties destroyed. BB8 tells them where their base is and they go straight there. Destroyer is still over Jakku (we know this from Finn and Pow escaping said destroyer, ties came from it too). Snoke is angry at Hux, says that they are "tied to the end of a string. They get to the rebel base and thats when Han enters the falcon so, basically, Han is still a general and fighting. No reset of his character arc.

Its from here that Rey speaks to Maz about Lukes lightsaber. Less coincidental that the rebels have the saber and the “Mazs castle planet” actually blends well with the “rebel base planet” (lucky that Disney only do wood, snow and desert planets). Like I said, I have tested this and it works but needed a little bit of background replacement. Rey now needs to go to Luke (due to now having a map to the jedi temple) but getting an explanation in there that Leia isnt going is tough. May be because the First Order attacks and she needs to stay to do commander stuff. Not sure, its shot too calmly. Anyway, this is how the “tied to the end of a string” line fits. They tracked the falcon there. They now have to escape and the film merges from 7 into 8. Rey starts training with Luke and the Rebels are forced down to crait. Movie ends during training with Rey.

Episode 8 - A few days have gone by while the First Order regather their troups for an assault on crait (not sure I like this, too close to Ep5. Maybe remove those half broken speeders). Because of the regroup of the first order, Rey has trained for the same length of time. Rey and Luke now go to crait together.

Theres a lot of edited out scenes that can be used later but will have to see what can be done when 9 is out. If I can get the movies to be 1.5 hous ill be happy. Might have to rethink the whole thing but i WILL be doing something like this. Will require quite a bit of VFX work though.

Post
#1258109
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

Mavimao said:

I honestly think the new makers want to re-shape the whole Force-training aspect of the original/prequel trilogy in order to move the narrative of new stories along faster.

Instead of having every new Force sensitive person having to dedicate a chunk of his or her life training (and thus taking up narrative time as well), we can do an X-Men-esque “awakening” in which characters are given raw powers but need guidance on what to do with those powers (so with great power comes great responsibility etc).

I understand fans’ frustrations with Rey’s sudden abilities, but did we really need another training montage?

No, we dont need another training montage but there are tons of ways around it. Have the training happen in between films, just like the OT & PT did, its been done before. You could even do it like they did in the Clone Wars TV show. Ahsoka was already trained to use her powers (assumed by Yoda - see Ep2) but when passed onto Anakin to continue her training, all she needed was “guidance on what to do with those powers” - exactly like you said. Story doesn’t have to slow down at all for the sake of training.

With all these insane new powers and instant knowledge on how to use them (including broom boy), jedi are starting to feel more like gods and Luke, under Disney cannon, is now the weakest jedi that ever lived with how much he struggled. Even Anakin “the chosen one” had it rough.

RogueLeader said:

Regardless, I think going through that process made me really think about what those movies were trying to say, and in the end it made me appreciate the prequels we already have even more. And while the movies clearly have problems (enter fan edits), I love the overall story they tell.

Maybe you won’t ever come around on the new films, and if you ever want to talk about them with me I would be happy to share my opinion, but I think for all of the people it is just going to take time for them to really get into them. I’m not saying they’re perfect, I’m over on the fan edit threads all the time trying to think of ways to improve them, but I think the overall story fits appropriately with the saga as a whole.

I personally love the prequels but yes, they do have a bunch of issues. BUT like you say, you love the story, even though the execution was off. However, I dont see much of a story in the sequel trilogy except from “We are bad and you are good. Lets fight!”. 7 isnt connected well to 6 (no, I shouldnt have to read 3 books to know whats going on) and 7 & 8 dont connect well ether. There is no narrative that links each together. When watching 2 & 5 for the first time, you somewhat knew what to expect story wise. Ep8 cuts away from 7 and yet sets nothing at all up by the end of it that literally ANYTHING could happen in 9 due to a lack of overarching story. Of course, some may like this and thats fine.

If I ever do start warming up the the sequels, it would have to be through a fan edit that massively overhauled the story and, unfortunately, that seems only possible through title crawls and/or reshuffling scenes & doing background replacement in order to create a totally different narrative. Been thinking a lot about this actually.

Post
#1257816
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

NeverarGreat said:

I think TLJ is divisive precisely because it seemed to be crafted to cater to those who found no interest in TFA. Everything set up in the Force Awakens, from the map to Luke to Hux and Snoke, to the Knights of Ren and Rey’s history, are all either ignored or confirmed as narrative dead-ends to be used at face value and then discarded. It is not that this makes TLJ bad. On the contrary, taken in isolation it works well.

I mostly agree with this. TFA was amazing in the cinema but after getting it on DVD, I came to the realisation what a bad film it was. Aside from the fact that its ANH again, the first half of the film is just a string of insane coincidences that get everyone to where they need to go. Not only that but its barely linked to 6 at all, like there is a film missing in between and, presumably, just so that they can do ANH again. Though, I admit that a few of the setups might of paid off so I was still interested. R1 was ok.

I walked out of TLJ on the day that it opened and it killed my love of SW for a long time. Ive only recently just started watching the films again. Aside from Luke trying to murder someone is their sleep, he abandoned his friends, causing one of them to die. Kylo went to the dark side, murdered TONS of innocents and blew up planets because his uncle tried to murder him? Character motivation flips constantly, the plot felt like a filler episode of TCW TV show and there are a few violations to cannon. Yes, people can disagree with me on this last one but its my opinion. Weaponizing hyperspace and allowing force ghosts, who can pop up whenever and wherever they want, the power to destroy things with lightning was a terrible idea. Yoda was goofy like the way in ESB to test Lukes patience, not his actual self and the list goes on…

NeverarGreat said:

But TFA was the start of a very different story, and to follow it with this is like forcing the pieces of two different puzzles together. It doesn’t matter if Rian’s oil painting is better than the crayon imitation of Star Wars from JJ, when put together it still results in a royal mess.

This.

I also dont want the mystery of Hans backstory explained to me ether. Sometimes the mystery is better than the actual answers. Will never watch.

Post
#1180991
Topic
The Sequel Trilogy complete redux
Time

NeverarGreat said:

I didn’t mean to imply that every scene of the Falcon is there purely because of nostalgia, just that its initial inclusion was very much for that purpose (and to get Han on board). But once the Falcon is now the ST ship of choice, there’s really no way to change its identity.

Listing all the scenes which rely on it being Han’s old ship:
-Han and Chewie finding and boarding the Falcon
-Han complaining about the compressor, and Rey’s solution
-The Tracking Ball reference and Game table
-Han thinking about hiring Rey to look after the Falcon

-Luke mourning Han’s death and the metal dice
-The Falcon drawing TIEs away at Crait (Requires Kylo’s hatred of Han and the Falcon)

I get what what your saying but I think we are both looking at this from a different point of view. Not to speak for you, but I am assuming that you are looking at this from the viewpoint of the films as is with minimal/no editing. I’m looking at it from my own personal heavily edited version of TFA (which a few of those points are cut) but mainly from my in-progress “sequel trilogy redux” project. While TLJ isn’t out yet on BR/DVD, as long as my plans work out and don’t get changed, the only point there that’s going to be included is the game table reference (and a slight possibility of drawing the TIEs away). Nether of them are even necessary, at least not for my version. Ive only seen the TFA once in cinema and a quick glimpse on cut scenes when editing so I actually completely forgot that two of those points even existed.

Post
#1180563
Topic
The Sequel Trilogy complete redux
Time

NeverarGreat said:

The Falcon is stitched into the ST’s DNA. No amount of rotoscoping can change that, since almost every scene with the Falcon relies on it being that particular vessel of nostalgia.

I’m not sure whether or not you mean nostalgic for the viewer or the characters but ether way, I completely disagree.

If you mean for the characters - There are only two scenes as far as I remember that reference nostalgia so far. One with Luke entering and turning the lights on and “Chewie, we’re home”. These can easily be cut or, if really needed, changed. It’s not like they constantly talk about the old days while aboard it.

If you mean for the viewer - While the final film isn’t out yet, I’ve started doing some background replacement in advance for my “Sequel Trilogy Redux” and my son became interested so I showed him parts of the film that I thought might hold his attention while I pointed out characters and names. One was the escape from Jakku and he really liked it, mainly BB8 who he calls “Baby 8”. At no point did he say that “the Falcon held the scene together due to nostalgia”. To him, it was a new ship, it could have been any ship. It really doesn’t matter what ship it is, the Falcon isn’t necessary.

The only scene that I would agree with you on is with how Han picks up Rey, Finn and BB8. The Falcon is needed for Han to be searching for it and he found it because it can be easily tracked (which is flimsy anyway, I can poke holes in that). But since I want to have Rey follow BB8s instructions on where their base is and head straight there, where Han is still a general, this whole scene is scrapped for me. Falcon not needed.

Anakin Starkiller said:

I think the trilogy should have its own ship. The Prequels had Padme’s ships, which, while different in each film, all had the same interior, as well as the same chrome texture on the exterior. The Originals had the Millenium Falcon, obviously. The Sequels have…also the Falcon. How about the Falcon is destroyed when it crashes on Starkiller Base. All subsequent scenes featuring it would have another ship in its place. I really hope Episode IX introduces a ship like this to make adding more natural, not to mention not having to design it ourselves. The main issue will be rotoscoping the characters whenever they’re in the Falcon cockpit to place them in the new ship’s cockpit instead. That would probably be a nightmare. We could simply cut most of those shots, since they aren’t that important. We’d be cutting the shot of Luke in it anyways, since all he does is look at the familiar cockpit and retrieve the dice, none of which works if it isn’t the Falcon.

If this were done by someone else and it was good enough, I’d consider asking permission to use it. For me, however, it’s not a big enough deal for me to want it changed since I think there is so much other work that needs done. Whoever did this would probably need to have experience in 3D modeling/animation which I don’t have. Maybe the OP does?

Post
#1162726
Topic
The Sequel Trilogy complete redux
Time

LordPlagueis said:

The lack of political context irked me at first. Eventually, I realized the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance is at least roughly analogous to the relationship between the French Resistance and Free France in World War II. This is an imperfect analogy but the closest historical example I can think of at the moment.

The Republic and the First Order each occupied a large part of the galaxy. Wary of an arms race out of a fear it could provoke war, the Republic signed a disarmament treaty with the First Order, which reneged on the agreement. The Republic secretly provided indirect support to the Resistance while publically denying this.

See, this is all good stuff and makes them feel like less of an empire 2.0 but the problem is that none of this was actually in the film. Its a huge shame. However, this may have been done intentionally since TFA was meant to be a nostalgic film with it being so close to ANH. Problem is that the nostalgia doesn’t hold up through repeated viewing and you start asking questions to which the film (or the whole sequel trilogy) doesn’t answer.

LordPlagueis said:

Logically, one person must have been the first Force user in the galaxy if you go back far enough. That person must have taught himself without training. Right?

While true, I imagine that scenario being a long long process of them discovering the power to becoming fully trained. Far longer than normal Jedi to be trained (from kid to adult). I’d even say that he/she wouldn’t have even come close to mastering the power but passed what little they knew to someone else who continued exploring the possibilities. Now we come to Rey with huge spikes in knowledge and power without even being told that any of these possibilities exist. Like I said in a previous post in this topic, apparently the cannon explanation is due to the force balancing her out with Kylo (which is why there’s a lot of talk about balance etc in TLJ) but if that’s the case then now Disney have went and put a plot hole in the original trilogy since the force never balanced out Luke and Vader so that he could kick his ass in Cloud City. It’s as if they just wanted to skip any training so that they could just carry on with the story without any regard as to what has come before.

Post
#1160944
Topic
The Sequel Trilogy complete redux
Time

hk47awesome said:

I agree to an extent with most of the criticisms but unlike OP and a lot of others who share them, I don’t hate the films at all just as I didn’t hate the Prequels either… TLDR I agree with the criticisms though that doesn’t make me hate the new films just like my criticisms of the Prequels didn’t make me hate them either. I love Luke’s display of Force Mastery at the end and I don’t mind what they did with Snoke. My issue lies more in the over arching story. It definitely should have been New Republic versus First Order. I’ve written new opening crawls for both TFA and TLJ that emphasize the role of the New Republic, acknowledging its presence as if it hasn’t been completely destroyed. From there, the only edits that need to be made are to the few instances where they imply “no one is coming”. No, fuck that, the New Republic absolutely would be coming but they just can’t get the signal far enough or something to that effect. That’s about the best you can hope for. The rest would basically be a fan film, not a fan edit.

Yeah, I get all that and mostly, if not completly, feel the same but…like you said, the over arching story is a problem. For the most part, there is none and if there is anything at all that you can think of, there is no progress, change or learning curve for characters happening at all. Which is why I feel like the sequels need to be heavily edited (one of quite a few reasons). TLJ is a huge example of this and the ending is so final feeling that there is no next objective for anyone to be excited for the next film except “kylo has to die/convert to the light side”. Of course, this was the same objective as in previous middle chapters but there was much more pilled on top of that.

It seems like Disney are more concerned of making each film it’s own thing and, if you look at each film as is, they are good as long as you don’t take them too seriously. Unfortunatly, some people do and find flaws. If you compaire character personalities, motivations, past story lines, galixy politics etc. that are all set up in previous fiilms, it doesn’t totally match up and sometimes not make sence. Plot points are dropped and forgotten about between films. Lots of decisions made for nostalgic reasons and not for actually making something new and good.

If you take a few flaws of the films so far:

-TFA was a copy of ANH
-Rey doesn’t have any training or need it at all but previous films say that you do. If the force can just make Rey stronger to balance out the light and dark (official explination apparently), why didn’t the force just balance out Luke so that he could kick vaders ass at the end of ep5?
-No large over arching story between films

These flaws are all fixed by doing the edit mentioned on page 1 - Have Rey trained in TFA and have the Resistance trapped on Crait at the end of the film. The more flaws you find and attempt to fix, the better the sequel trilogy could turn out. Just chaning the Resistance to the Republic and making it so that they cant get the message out on Crait doen’t fix the majority of flaws.

Post
#1160502
Topic
The Sequel Trilogy complete redux
Time

Jake Skywalker said:

I’m thinking about it and I still don’t know how easy would it be. Why does it appear so young? How does he survive? Or is he killed in the duel? One option would be moving the duel at the end of TFA, explaining why he is younger. Or could he be digitally aged to make him duel at the end of TLJ? (maybe the best option)

Well, I have only seen TLJ once as I was let down but as far as I remember, Luke only had a bit of a haircut and beard trim. Correct me if i’m wrong. I’d just take it as Luke had a shave on the way. Don’t think thats an issue.

Personally, when I get round to editing I’d probably make it so that Luke just keeps Kylo busy for as long as he can. He bought time for them, knowing that he wasn’t going to make it if he did. He sees the falcon leaving the planet and, knowing that he is now one person vs Kylo, Ties and a bunch of walkers, he is happy to go. Kinda do a Ben thing and have it so that when Kylo slashes through Luke for the first time, just mask over Luke, have him fade out and put in a cloak drop.

With Luke footage being 95% at the island and the rest on crait, I don’t think there is any other option to be fair. Due to Han not duying in TLJ, if follwing the story edit I mentioned before, we actually could have all three of them meet up together and say goodbye to Luke. Would have to mask in Han and find some dialogue for him. I’d be happy with a single line and then cut to something else.

Since Han hasn’t died yet. Was thinking of using that shot where they jump to hyperspace with the Rathtar on the window in TFA. Could use this shot when they leave Crait. Just remove the view from the windows and put a moving shot of crait outside. Think Han says “punch it chewie” in this shot. Cut back outside and luke sees the falcon shoot off. Then lets Kylo take him out.

Han obviously doesn’t HAVE to be the one flying it here but as there is only so much footage of old Han, I’d repurpose it all as much as possible to keep him on screen.

… speaking of dreams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmOPXhFensg 😄

Exactly what I was thinking of!

Post
#1160115
Topic
The Sequel Trilogy complete redux
Time

Jake Skywalker said:

I see your point. As Pixar’s Emma Coats says “Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating.” But, given the material we have, we’d end up with Rey and Finn as strangers… I don’t know about that…

Your probably right. As much as the sequels arn’t for me, I actually like Finn but that might be just due to John’s likeability. He’s a cool guy lol. I actually felt bad when he was going to sacrifice himself. So, yeah it would be good to keep them together as to establish character etc. Hopefully find some lines from Poe that can be mashed together to give some sort of explanation to Finn when they meet up again so that he didn’t leave for no reason.

I’d try (but I don’t know if it’s possible) to trim the dialogue to avoid any mention of the Resistance, while establishing the New Republic in the crawl. This is a possible TFA crawl that:

  • justifies Luke’s journey as needed in is path as a Jedi Master (and avoid to make him just run away);
  • establish the New Republic and Leia’s role in it;
  • as you say, make Poe retrieving the whole map from Lor San Tekka (another problem: who is him? just another random character thrown in by JJ… 😕 ).

Anyway, here’s the crawl:

Luke Skywalker has vanished! The Jedi Master left in order to find the SACRED JEDI TEXTS, the ancient books containing the knowledge and the wisdom needed to rebuild the Order.

Luke doesn’t know that, in his absence, the sinister FIRST ORDER is born from the ashes of the Empire, menacing the fragile NEW REPUBLIC, for which Princess Leia Organa is tirelessly traveling as ambassador from system to system, hoping to annex as many planets as possible.

Desperate to find her brother Luke, Leia has sent the most daring pilot of the Republic on a secret mission to Jakku, where an old ally has discovered a map to the possible Luke’s whereabouts…

Not a bad crawl, I might actually use this as a template and tweak it a bit for my own edit, If you don’t mind lol. Lor San Tekka is another thing but I don’t think that he is a big enough issue to worry about. Only possible way I can think of fixing him is just adding it to the crawl but he barely has any screen time so it might come off as strange. Plus, by changing it from him having a map to Luke (as stated in the crawl) to a map to the Jedi temple. It makes the issue even less important. They know Lukes gone to the temple, just don’t know where it is themselves, but Tekka does. Of course, this might bring up the point of why wouldn’t he just tell them through hologram or whatever. I’m assuming that they must of contacted him previously to meeting him.

I think the biggest problem would be with a continuity issue due to Kylo Ren with his helmet off/on and scarred face/no scar. Mainly since the whole trilogy would be completely rearranged.

Also, as you said previously, I would also prefer Luke to go in person. Would be easy enough to do. Need to keep in mind that his lightsaber would have to be recolored and handle replaced with his green one. Would love an actual clash of blades too but no idea how to properly pull that off. Maybe I’m just dreaming but I’m gonna try anyway.