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10-Dec-2005
Last activity
14-Jul-2006
Posts
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Post
#173792
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/173792/action/topic#173792
Time
WRT to the Pod Race (sorry if anyone has already suggested this, or if this contradicts any previous decisions):

I think one of the big problem with the pod race (okay, *A* big problem with the pod race) is that it's the first time in the series when Anakin does anything, and he's fanastically successful at it. The character's got everything he needs right from the beginning. So, what if we make it so he's not fantastically successful at pod racing. He's good, yes, but at some point he gets in over his head, and Qui-Gon has to bail him out. There's the conflict. He can't succeed without Qui-Gon's help. Then, during the final battle, Anakin gets in over his head again. Qui-Gon guides him through it for a while, but then Qui-Gon gets stabbed. Without Qui-Gon's help, Anakin crashes. Thus, the climactic moment features Anakin discovering how to succeed on his own, drawing on the force to destroy the Federation ship. If you wanted to, you might be able to even show him drawing on the dark side, setting up the key conflict of the prequels: Anakin's willingness to draw on the dark side when he finds himself in trouble.

As for how Qui-Gon helps Anakin during the race, it could be something as simple as him giving advice at a key moment. If someone could find Liam Neeson delivering some techno-babble, you could have him help Anakin during the "Anakin flips switches scene." If not, just have him say something force-y ("Feel, don't think. Use your insincts.") Or you could have Qui-Gon physically help Anakin. A close up of Qui-Gon looking serious, while the force theme plays, followed by Anakin and Sebulba's pods seperating in slow motion, and I think you'd see Qui-Gon using the Force to seperate the pods.

The big downside I see to this is that it makes it harder to accept the "Qui-Gon sees potential in Anakin" part of the pod race. But I don't think it would be difficult to edit the first part of the race showing Qui-Gon seeing the potential in Anakin.
Post
#173435
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/173435/action/topic#173435
Time
Good. People are posting again. I thought I had killed the thread.

I too lean towards not having Anakin do any obvious Force manipulation. I worry that to much Force/Destiny stuff during the race may detract from the final battle. If we've already seen Anakin concentrate on his feelings while the Force Theme swirls in the background, then when something similar happens during the big dogfight at the end, it may seem kind of repetative.
Post
#171895
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/171895/action/topic#171895
Time
I love the cuts, TJDavis. A few things occured to me while I was watching them, one fairly minor, the other major.

The minor one involves the landing. It just feels to long, and the cut to Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan inside the ship feels abrupt (plus that scene is kind of dull.) An idea I had that might spice it up just a little is to cut away from the landing half-way through and overlay the sounds for the rest of it over the Obi-Wan/Qui-Gon conversation. That way, instead of the conversation coming after the ship lands, it comes during the ships landing. I just think it adds a tad more urgency. Qui-Gon's not even waiting for the ship to land before he's getting ready to head out.

The second thing is my pair 'o pennies regarding Anakin's "Force Communication." I understand that something has to happen there, but I'm not sure the facial expressions work for Anakin "feeding thoughts to Padme." Just looking at the script, one idea thought is that it could work something like this:

Qui-Gon leaves.
Shot of Padme looking around.
Shot of Anakin staring at her.
Padme turns to look at Anakin and smiles.
Padme (thinking): You're a funny little boy.
Anakin: I'm a person.
Shot of Padme taken aback.
Padme: What?
Anakin: My name is Anakin.
Padme: I'm sorry. I don't fully understand. This is a strange world to me.

I'm not sure where to go from here. You could just cut away, or try to work the conversation back to "Are you an angel?" somehow. Or you could try a different conversation altogether. But I think having Anakin read Padme's mind will get the important messages across (Anakin is special, Anakin is connected to Padme), while fitting with the reactions better.

The original plan could still work. I just wasn't convinced by the rough cut, and thought I'd put an alternative idea out there.

Oh...definately get rid of the announcer. Gah!
Post
#163124
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163124/action/topic#163124
Time
The Senate meeting exterior shot is the same time of day as the first Jedi council shot, so there's no discrepency to worry about that way.


Huh. You're right. I wonder what I was thinking. In that case, my only real concern is, as a I said before, by dividing the two, you give yourself a long period (okay, five minutes) without any Qui-Gon/Anakin/Jedi stuff. I just think that going so long without any of that stuff breaks up its flow more then intercutting at points were there are already natural pauses does. I dunno. I'll have to try it both ways, and see how it works, once I get my hands on my DVDs.

Oh, and I'm totally on your side, MTHaslett, re. Obi-Wan's lies in ANH. If there's anyway to change it without looking shoddy, do it.
Post
#163114
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163114/action/topic#163114
Time
I've been thinking about how best to order the Coruscant sequence. In the original cut, here's the order (if memory serves):
Landing
Palpatine talking with Amidala
Qui-Gon telling the Council about Darth Maul
Anakin searching for Padme
The Senate scene
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan talking
Anakin's test
Amidala deciding to go back
The Council deciding not to train Anakin
Leaving

Sidenote: The order of the Coruscant sequence should stay as-is. Having ALL the Senate stuff then ALL the Jedi stuff is too much of the same thing continuously. Let them break each other up.


I agree. The lighting in the various scenes makes it difficult to envision the scenes together. We'd have to go through a full day with Padme, then go back, and watch the same day again from Qui-Gon's point of view (or the other way around). That just doesn't feel right. Plus, cutting straight from Qui-Gon in front of the Council to either Qui-Gon talking with Obi-Wan or Anakin in front of the council seems weird. And, I think by dividing Coruscant into a Padme segment and a Qui-Gon segment actually reduces the emphasis on Qui-Gon. If we follow the order I listed below, I think we keep more focus on Qui-Gon throughout. I think starting with Qui-Gon's story instead of Amidala's makes it feel like the more urgent one.

We're cutting the scene where Anakin looks for Padme, which leaves us with nine scenes. We can't mess with the order to much, because of the light (one of my favorite parts of the movie, actually). But if we can find a shot of the Senate Building during sunset, then we can put them in this order:
Landing (obviously)
Qui-Gon telling the Council about Darth Maul, getting permission to bring Anakin before the Council
Palpatine talking with Amidala
Anakin's test
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan talking
The Senate scene
The Council deciding not to train Anakin
Amidala deciding to go back
Leaving

ETA: More explaination
Post
#162570
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162570/action/topic#162570
Time
I agree that if Grevious=Maul, we'll need a "Reconstruction" scene at some point. It has to be in AotC, because you're trying to avoid loose ends from TPM, and Grevious is already running around in RotS. It would also need to be at the end, otherwise you'd expect Grevious to appear at some point in AotC. Here's my idea on how it can go down. It requires some dialogue that I don't know exists, but is fairly general. Italicized text needs to be found somewhere.


INTERIOR: CORUSCANT, SECRET LANDING PLATFORM - DAWN

The ramp lowers. COUNT DOOKU emerges and walks to where the
hooded figure of DARTH SIDIOUS stands waiting. COUNT DOOKU
bows.

COUNT DOOKU: The Force is with us, Master Sidious.
DARTH SIDIOUS: Welcome home, Lord Tyranus. I have something to show you.
COUNT DOOKU: I have good news, my Lord. War has
started.
DARTH SIDIOUS: Excellent. (smiling) Everything is going as
planned.

INTERIOR: CORUSCANT, IMPERIAL REHAB CENTER - DAY

MEDICAL DROID: We found him in the melting pit on Naboo. His body was broken, but his spirit endures.
COUNT DOOKU: But this is impossible!
DARTH SIDIOUS: Not for the Sith.
COUNT DOOKU (Realizing): Together, my Lord Sidious, we shall rule this galaxy.

The "Not for the Sith" comes from TPM, and Dooku's last line comes from The Two Towers (with slight modifications.) The final Dooku/Sidious conversation could take place offscreen, but a close up of Dooku looking suprised whilst in the shadows would help a lot.

For the reveal, could you put it at the moment Grevious escapes from the ship, near the begining? Replace "You lose, General Kenobi" (or whatever he says) with "I've waited thirteen years for this, General Kenobi." You'd still need some reaction from Obi-Wan, but the specific situation means the reaction can be more subdued, and possibly even wait until the next time someone mentions Grevious in a conversation with Obi-Wan.

I'm not sure either of these would work, but they're my thoughts on how you might be able to do Maul=Grevious.
Post
#162348
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162348/action/topic#162348
Time
Long time reader, first time poster. I’m loving what I’m reading, and just had to come on and put in my two cents.

On Grievous/Maul: I like having our first view of Grievous/Maul be with him descending from his ship, while the Grievous theme plays in the background. But I also think it needs some set up. So why don’t you keep the hologram scene, but not show any close-ups of Grievous/Maul. So we see Nute talking with this hooded figure (“Move against the Jedi first. You should then have no problem bringing the queen back here to sign the treaty”) but we don’t reveal who he’s talking to until we see Grievous/Maul land his ship and send out the probes. I also like the idea of giving Anakin a Padme dream, but I think Grievous/Maul needs to reach Tatooine before then. I just re-watched TPM last night, and realized just how long we spend on Tatooine before Maul shows up, and how boring that makes it. Maybe you could just cut enough of the Tatooine stuff, so it doesn’t feel so long, eh?

A couple other ideas…
What if you reversed the scene where Amidala decides to go back to Naboo, and the scene where the Jedi are ordered to? This shouldn’t be too hard. Just cut Mace’s lines so they go like this (brackets indicate cut)…

Mace: Now is not the time for this. The Senate is voting on a new supreme chancellor [and Queen Amidala is returning home], which
could put pressure on the federation…
Ki: And draw out the queen’s attacker.
Mace: Go [with the queen] to Naboo and discover the identity of this dark
warrior. This is the clue we need to unravel the mystery of the Sith.

If you play this scene right, you could even make it look like the Jedi Council is sending Qui-Gon back to Naboo as punishment for disagreeing so publicly over Anakin, making Anakin feeling both guilty about Qui-Gon’s eventual death (gives “I don’t want to be a problem” a deeper meaning), as well as possible making him even more mad at the Jedi Council for their vindictiveness.
Then just change Jar-Jar’s lines so they talk about the Jedi (“Are all you’re people going to die?” “I don’t know.” “The Jedi are going to get killed trying to save them.” “I hope not.”)

One final small suggestion: cut the last part of the Obi-Wan/Yoda scene near the end. End it with “Qui-Gon’s defiance I sense in you. Need that, you do not.” This way, the audience doesn’t know what the council has decided about Anakin until Obi-Wan tells him. Just creates a little more tension, and eliminates a little redundancy.