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Darth Balkan

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Members
Join date
21-May-2005
Last activity
7-Jul-2009
Posts
3

Post History

Post
#108163
Topic
Original trilogy
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/108163/action/topic#108163
Time
Darth Simon:

Fair enough. The OT version is ambiguous, and Greedo's dialogue is unclear as to whether Greedo's about to kill him right then and there or let him plead his case before Jabba. I think that if the OT from the beginning had presented the scene along the lines of the SE or 2004 versions, then everybody would have enjoyed the film just the same without much impact upon how we look at Han. But at the same time, it's absolutely RIDICULOUS that GL felt he needed to change that scene once he already had it with Han shooting first. The fact of the change speaks volumes because it shows that GL himself felt the orginal was too rough and he wanted to whitewash it, make it kid friendly or whatever. And once you know that, it just becomes highly annoying and kind of insulting that we are being infantilized. So in my view, to understand this whole debate, you really have to think about it in terms of what the change symbolizes, and not simply whether, if we were all seeing the film for the first time, we would be bothered by the fact that Greedo shot first or simultaneously. Do you agree?

All of that said, I think it would be interesting to know what people said about this scene before the change was made. In the pre-SE era, did people talk about how badass Han was to shoot Greedo in cold blood? Or did that only become a focus after the change was made? When I used to watch the film as a kid, I always thought that Han was acting in self-defense (even if I didn't put it in those words!), but maybe not everyone did.

Darth Balkan
Post
#107345
Topic
Original trilogy
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/107345/action/topic#107345
Time
Agreed. But my point is that that is a distinct issue from how much it really matters in the great scheme of things. . . . Especially with global warming and everything going on in the Middle East.

By the way, I’ve edited my initial post and the original version technically doesn’t exist anymore. So I’m requiring folks to respond to the special edition of my post which (for now) is my definitive vision of what I want to say.
Post
#107327
Topic
Original trilogy
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/107327/action/topic#107327
Time
Darth Simon:

I think your first paragraph contradicts your second. It was self-defense under either version given the preceding conversation - which is what makes the whole character arc argument nonsense. I think the change is corny and unecessary if I focus on it, but the cheesy thinkg about it is the fact that Lucas felt he needed to make the change in first place, not what it really does to the film itself. And I just don't get the mantra that it fundamentally changes Han's character. There is nothing wrong with what he did in either version and I'm sure he would have done the same if the episode happened after the end of the third movie.

Also I don't think most people even notice the change if they don't know about it (I certainly didn't notice it when I saw the SE in theater). I didn't say, wow Han is a completely different guy in this version of the film. So the very fact that you have to be a pretty detail oriented fan to even notice it confirms to me that it really doesn't change Han's character at all. The whole debate turns on a rather obsessive point about logical consistency--and not the actual impression you get when watching the film without all the fan baggage. A bit ironic given that the SW films are not exactly the paragon of logical consistency.

In any case I agree with the initial point that these are perfectly fine in SE. It's nice to have the original versions so that what I saw as a kid is preserved, and some of the changes are annoying (although I would put the dance number in ROTJ some of the less subtle CGI stuff way up higher on the list than who shoots first), but the changes don't fundamentally affect the experience of the film for those who are not invested in this whole debate.