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Broom Kid

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3-Sep-2019
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29-Mar-2020
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Post
#1304005
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:
I agree they are better made in some respects. However, the main driving force behind these films is not artistry.

Again, I think it’s really unfair and unrealistic of you to say this. Borderline disingenuous, really. Especially considering many of the arguments you’re currently leveraging against this version of Star Wars were leveraged against it in the '80s, '90s, and '00s. I fundamentally disagree with any attempt to somehow strip the legitimate, and easily observable intent to create art from the finished films, or to attempt to redefine their existence AS art based on a romanticized notion of what George Lucas is, was, and would have done had he not decided to sell everything. George Lucas is not an island, and his “vision” is not as all encompassing or unfiltered as you consistently describe it to be. The work stands for itself, and your criticisms of the work are primarily rooted in a somewhat cruel appraisal of its artistic intent first and foremost, one that I don’t think stands up to scrutiny at all.

I apologize for dragging this out as long as I did, and I thank you for being very civil and patient with me. Obviously we’re not going to agree, but hopefully some measure of understanding (not agreement, of course, but the two aren’t synonymous anyway) was reached.

Post
#1303998
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

No, I’m saying you cannot take somebody else’s art, tweak it a bit, and then claim you’re being artistic.

But that’s often how art is actually made. There’s an entire subforum of this very site that is dedicated to pursuing that ideal, in fact. You CAN take someone’s art, tweak it, and claim you’re being artistic, because that IS a valid artistic expression. Andy Warhol is probably the most famous example of that principle being accepted as truth.

And you’re still belittling the act of creation being done on the part of creatives who have been working at Lucasfilm since 2012 (many of whom have worked with Lucas both before AND after the sale) as mere “tweaking” when their contributions and execution is quite a bit more than simply “tweaking” something. You’re more or less just doubling down on the endeavour of disqualifying something as art rather than accepting it for what it is and judging it accordingly. It’s more than enough to simply not like the art being made, if that’s all there really is to it - there’s no real reason to go out of your way to suggest it shouldn’t be qualified as art to begin with. I think Attack of the Clones is a genuinely horrible movie on its own merits - I wouldn’t ever think to say it’s not really a Star Wars movie, or further, not really a movie at all because it sucks. It’s just a bad Star Wars movie. Going the extra step to disqualify its existence is sort of absurd, really.

I apologize if this reads as out of line, especially since I don’t actually know you at all and aren’t familiar with you outside of the posts I’ve seen of yours in this forum, but might I suggest that it’s at least POSSIBLE you’re a little more accepting of other people’s artistic “tweaking” of pre-existing texts and works (The Shining, The Lord of the Rings) partially because there isn’t as strong an emotional or historical connection with those works and creators as you consistently work to maintain with regards to Star Wars?

Because it feels like there’s an idealized, romanticized version of Star Wars you’re using as the measuring stick by which the Sequel Trilogy must be judged, and that version of Star Wars doesn’t necessarily exist in any quantifiable way outside of your own head and heart. Which might be why I’m reacting to the notion that there’s a fundamental betrayal of Lucas being perpetrated in the way I am, because I genuinely do not see evidence of that in the work itself. The Sequel Trilogy feels like an artistically valid continuation of the story he started telling in 1977, and on a general filmmaking and storytelling level, the films as created under Kennedy’s leadership at the studio are, on average, better made, more compelling, and more INTERESTING as a collection of films than what Lucas turned out when he had sole control of the studio.

Post
#1303992
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:
Star Wars was always both art, and product before Lucas sold his company, but the only thing that was sold was the product, and the brand, not the artistry.

This seems REALLY un-generous to me, and more than a little inaccurate (and very dismissive) on top of that.

It’s far too obsessed with nostalgia

But your entire read on what gets to qualify AS Star Wars seems inherently rooted in nostalgia. Its your reluctance to allow for other voices aside from Lucas’ that is dominant in your view as to why things might not be “good” Star Wars or “bad” Star Wars, but disqualified from being Star Wars at all. It’s a fundamentally unfair argument at its core, because it seeks not to critique the art on the arts terms, but redefine what art actually is so that the thing you don’t like is delegitimized as being art at all.

Lucas chose to sell his company to Disney. He chose its current President knowing she was going to have to be in control of the story once he sold the company. To suggest that everything done after the sale is being done for the sole sake of commerce, with no intent to create legitimate art that builds from what came before, isn’t a very realistic take, I don’t think. That’s not to say you have to like what was created, much like people don’t have to like the prequels, or really, ANYTHING with the words Star Wars on it.

But to suggest that post-sale Lucasfilm is no longer making Star Wars simply because you feel Lucas is being disrespected in some way… that just doesn’t make any sense to me. It dismisses out of hand all the effort, care, and time the people still at the company are putting into making these movies and shows, for the sake of protecting the feelings of a person you don’t even know and have no legitimate connection to. Again, you’re prioritizing HOW the art was made, and the hypothetical feelings of a previous contributor, over whether the art is actually doing what it was created to do. You’re judging everything that gets made through the prism of whether it’s “Lucasian” enough for you when the definition for that particular term is, itself, pretty fluid and weird and not particularly easy to discern even IF you actually knew the man.

Chaining what Star Wars can be to the narrow definition of what its previous owner may or may not have done with it is needlessly limiting, I think.

Post
#1303970
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations - <strong>NO SPOILERS</strong>
Time

I don’t remember that anyone’s said Mandalorian’s “first episode spoiler” directly referenced The Rise Of Skywalker, just that it was a revelation that changed the way the saga is thought of. The phrasing in that article was weird in the first place, in that if it’s IN the show it’s not really a “spoiler” for anything, but frequently the meaning of words in entertainment writing are rendered meaningless. Try reading an article in the Hollywood Reporter where someone doesn’t misrepresent a direct sequel as a “reboot,” for example.

Post
#1303966
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Even if we pursue this Coca-Cola analogy, the recipe for coke as it currently stands isn’t the same as it was when Coke was invented. Coca Cola isn’t Coca Cola anymore either. Things change and evolve and those evolutions tend to be accepted for what they are and the definition of what a thing is (and can be) get expanded accordingly.

For the purposes of this comparison, Coca Cola is still, like Star Wars, about 95% the same thing it always was. There are changes and differences. Your argument falls apart because it needs for there to be the idea that only the name has survived, and everything else that makes up its substance has been jettisoned and replaced, and that’s a pretty alarmist and inaccurate representation of Star Wars and the Sequel Trilogy’s contributions to it.

You’re essentially saying you care more about how a thing is made then whether it’s made well.

The idea that the stories aren’t being executed well and are failing or succeeding on their own merits, I have no problem with that. It’s pretty much the point of interacting with art - you judge the works based on how they worked or didn’t ON YOU. But when your interaction with art tends to hinge more on things like “what brush did they use” “whose canvas is that” “where did they source the paints from” and less on “how did this make me feel” then I feel like you’re not really giving the art itself a chance to work, because you’re more concerned (or distracted) with the trivia behind its creation than you are experiencing the ideas its trying to communicate.

Post
#1303957
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

But Star Wars isn’t a soft drink. It’s a story with multiple authors created in a highly collaborative medium. And the quality of that story and the execution in its telling is leagues more important to me than whatever concerns there may or may not be regarding the notion of proper respects being paid to a person I literally don’t know, have never met, and am completely unfamiliar with in the way they think, feel, and operate as people. It’s literally none of my business, really. The only thing that IS my business is how the story, whoever created and executed it, resonates with me.

If JJ Abrams and Chris Terrio, with the help of John Williams, the actors, cinematographer, editors, and myriad other storytellers and technicians (who are storytellers in their own right) come together to realize a way to recontextualize the prophecy for the ST, and it works, I’m not going to discount that effort and successful execution because I think that maybe George Lucas could possibly consider it “disrespectful” to him. That doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t get anything good out of that.

Post
#1303954
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

doubleofive said:

If Lucasfilm continues to have to go to fan restorations they found on YouTube over actually restoring the film, then there’s something wrong there. Film history is being ignored because fans posted clips somewhere? What if they accidentally use Revisited or any of the other fan edits that are right next to it online? Why would they know to reference Legacy if they didn’t have Legacy on hand?

Film History isn’t being ignored. There’s a considerable difference between a film being restored or preserved and a film being sold on a home video format of choice. One is a question of preservation, the other is a question of consumerism. You may ask “well what good is preservation if I can’t buy a copy of it at the store” and I get that question, but film history isn’t being ignored, and the original version of Star Wars isn’t going to disappear from history because it wasn’t pressed onto 4k UHD disc.

I would suggest we’re seeing that screencap used in that book because the book is low-priority tie-in merch handled by an outside company and editorial oversight isn’t as stringent as it was for Rinzler’s books. That’s similar to CNN’s docu-series having someone use a clip from Despecialized. These sorts of discrepancies happen frequently at many other companies, too - video game companies using google searches for material instead of going into their own archives is an example off the top of my head. Lucasfilm/Disney isn’t necessarily immune to such things.

Post
#1303950
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

They’d still have to do the other two, though. And at that point, why wouldn’t they just do all three? Especially since they already have access to the material they need in a higher quality than theatrical release prints.

If I’m wrong, I’ll be happy to be wrong, because it means the original versions finally got a proper home theater release, no matter what. Although I’m certain there’ll be something that jumps out at the eagle-eyes among us that necessitates further fan-restoration is needed. But at least at that point we’d be working from a very high-quality 4k source to make whatever changes need to be made.

But I don’t see Lucasfilm releasing the original versions and using Verta’s fan-restoration as part of them.

Post
#1303947
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

I don’t really agree, since Lucas is more than just "a previous storyteller, and I think the creator of this universe has a special place. In other words if major changes are made to the context of his story, I think he should be oke with it.

I value the story’s quality over the hypothetical hurt feelings of one of its previous contributors. I don’t understand the unnecessary complicating of enjoying the story itself by introducing this metatextual and behind-the-scenes drama to the proceedings and then hinging your ability to enjoy what happened to it. There’s no reason for me to put that skin in the game, I don’t get anything extra by doing so.

The second he sold the whole thing for four billion to a completely separate corporate entity, his feelings became a tertiary concern at best. It speaks well to people at Lucasfilm that they’re still involving him, despite prior complications and hurt feelings. But if he’s fine enough with still hanging around and helping when they ask, that should probably be all there is to it from my perspective.

Again: That’s part of why stories are so amazing. Their malleability, their freedom to change shape in order to get across the ideas and feelings of the people telling them. That’s a huge part of why the fan edit community has such an important place here, too. The consideration for other creator’s feelings isn’t taken into account too much, and I don’t know that it should be, because the aim isn’t to make prior creators thrilled or happy, it’s to try and figure out how to make the story work to express the ideas YOU want it to.

Post
#1303943
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

If they’re taking screenshots from Vimeo previews for their books, how is that a sign of anything deeper or more troubling? Deeper or more troubling than what? It’s a tie-in book that probably won’t really sell a whole lot to anyone who isn’t already a superfan. What signs are you seeing in the decision by an editor or graphic designer to use a frame from a Vimeo screencap that are so troubling?

“If they have any interest in releasing the OOT, then it’s not totally improbable that they would use Legacy in some capacity.”

I don’t know, I find it pretty close to totally improbable. Again, setting Verta’s pitching & public speaking abilities to the side - the only real time his project could be all that viable was when there were budget constraints applied to the release of the original versions on home video, where his fan-restoration would be considered as a legitimate alternative due to the cost savings.

But with those constraints removed, you’d have to suggest that a home video release of the original versions, the first since 2006 (when budgetary restrictions were in place) would be a licensed version of a fan-restoration created from theatrical release prints when Disney itself, again, owners of some of the finest film restoration technology in the industry, has access to not only the Reliance 4K re-scan and remastering of the 1997 SE negatives, but the original film elements necessary to re-create a theatrical version if they so chose.

I just don’t see it. Especially since they’d have to go to the effort and energy to create their own restorations of Empire and Jedi anyway, since Verta’s Legacy project only applies to the first movie, and there’s no way they’re only doing an original theatrical version of Star Wars for this still-hypothetical original versions release, and forgoing Empire and Jedi as well. If they’re going to do their own versions of Empire and Jedi, why wouldn’t they just do Star Wars as well. Not just for the sake of uniformity, but because there is no doubt whatever they’d do in-house would be better than even the best of Verta’s efforts.

Post
#1303930
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

The acquisition of Fox has nothing to do with whether originals can or should be released. I understand why that’s become part of the narrative over the years, but it’s never at any point been a hindrance or a roadblock to the original versions being released. Fox still owned distribution rights the last time it happened, for example.

The question of “playing nice” with another company has never really been a question because Fox had never NOT played nice.

I do think the Skywalker Saga box set is maybe the best chance we’ve had SINCE 2006 for a legitimate home theater release of the originals, though, and if ever there was a time I’d suggest that it’s okay to maybe sort of get your hopes up, it’s now. But I also don’t think whatever the original versions on those disks will be, will have anything to do with Mike Verta’s fan-restoration.

Post
#1303929
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I think the question of “respect” for prior entries is kind of academic, or at least beside the point, much in the same way that authorial intent is mostly for nitpicking arguments after the fact and not really relevant to the actual consumption of the art in question.

If the story works and is given punch and emotional import as a result of recontextualizing (whether that recontextualizing is “disrespectful” or not) then that’s a positive, so far as I’m concerned. James Cameron recontextualizing the xenomorph as a giant bug colony could be argued as a “disrespectful” move considering the lovecraftian origins and nature of the creature in Alien, but most people don’t really pursue that line of thought because it doesn’t really matter whether it was or not when you’re watching the movie. Does that storytelling decision work for the movie? If so, then it’s a good call.

If the “Prophecy of the one who will bring Balance to the Force” ends up being reinterpreted (after being more or less invented as a way to recontextualize the OT in the first place) for the sake of making the Sequel Trilogy better overall, I have no problems with it at all. I don’t really care if it can be read as “disrespectful” to previous storytellers or corporate ownership. That’s not really a concern of mine, especially since I don’t work there, and I’m not one of the creators in question. But if that recontextualization doesn’t work within the story, THEN I have a problem with it.

The prophecy is like any other fictional element being used in the pursuit of expressing thematic ideas through story: If you can change it to make it work for what you’re trying to say, then change it. That’s the whole point of fiction. It’s inherently malleable. So fold, spindle, and mutilate as needed.

Post
#1303914
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

I agree that the prophecy’s primary function in the story should have been a criticism (if not an outright condemnation) of the Jedi Order’s myopia.

On a metatextual level, we all 100% know the Chosen One prophecy was just Lucas taking the easiest storytelling route possible to make Anakin “special” in a way that further retconned the end of Return of the Jedi to be Anakin’s ultimate triumph, not Luke’s. But in the text, it could have been (and should have been) used as a means to show how the Jedi had so disappeared up their own ass and taken their eye off the ball that they never saw Anakin coming. That kind of happens, almost by accident, throughout the Prequel’s story being lurched through over the course of the trilogy. But like most good ideas embedded in the Prequels, its never fully realized, and its potential goes unfulfilled.

However, Palpatine’s returning doesn’t nullify Anakin’s sacrifice, even if it muddies the ultimate “truth” of the Prophecy. I think proving the prophecy to be somewhat bullshit isn’t even a bad thing, honestly. Prophecies suck in general, and are rarely used well in a story. Their best uses come as punchlines to tragic jokes. But Anakin’s sacrifice doesn’t cease to have meaning if Palpatine somehow survived for 30 years. The Sith were still wiped out for all intents and purposes (at least they didn’t wait a millennia before popping their head back up this time) balance to the force was more or less established, and the galaxy sustained a measure of peace for about 30 years. That’s pretty good for Star Wars. Of course, all of that is secondary to Anakin saving his kid, which is the real emotional and storytelling thrust of Return of the Jedi, and that thrust isn’t dulled or cut short by Palpatine’s reappearance in The Rise of Skywalker. Anakin still saved his kid. That hasn’t changed.

It’s always a possibility that Anakin, or his spirit, rather, will still show up at the end of this movie to assist in Palpatine’s final removal from the galaxy. At which point the prophecy is still accurate.

Post
#1303912
Topic
StarWarsLegacy.com - The Official Thread
Time

I very much doubt that they’re using Legacy.

Legacy’s best bet at being legitimized by Lucasfilm was pre-sale, when Lucasfilm wasn’t interested in spending too much money, and wasn’t really wishing to allocate much budget to original version pursuits. In that atmosphere, a freelance film restorer making a pitch that he’ll do the work at a low cost for them is attractive. This ignores, however, that Reliance was already contracted for (and delivered) their own 4k restoration of the 1997 SE negatives (which were then updated to replicate the 2011 blu-ray versions) shortly before the sale was completed.

Post-sale to Disney? Theres’ no reason for Disney to entertain the same pitch, because not only do they already own all the elements they’d need to restore the original versions, but they have access to some of the finest (if not THE finest) technical facilities for film restoration in the business currently, and have no budgetary issues, self-imposed or otherwise, to worry about when it comes to that restoration. I don’t see a possibility existing where Verta, on his own, could create a salable product that could compete with what Disney could do in-house, much less Disney choosing to forgo their own in-house work for Verta’s.

edit: Whoever is making that twitter thread is being pretty irresponsible w/ their speculation there. I can understand WANTING it to be evidence that LFL is using SW Legacy. But it honestly doesn’t make sense to extrapolate from those two shots in a tie-in book that Legacy is now official product.

Post
#1303895
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker box office results: predictions and expectations - <strong>NO SPOILERS</strong>
Time

I think there’s something to also be said for the consistent fracturing of attention spans through unprecedented media access and entertainment options just automatically diluting potential audience excitement. There’s a reason adjusting for inflation is practically useless, and that reason only gets ever more solidified with every year we move forward. The competition for moviegoing dollars only ever gets more heated. In the 80s it was the rental market. In the 90s it was Cable. In the 00s it was the internet. And now, on the verge of heading into the 2020s, we’re literally in a space where people with a gopro and a green-screen are getting better “ratings” than network television on their own DIY YouTube channels or Twitch streams. The fact there’s an entire multi-billion dollar internet-only platform whose primary dedication is to watching other people play video games, where you can spend money you might otherwise be spending on a movie ticket for access to custom emojis that you can spam in the chat-window next to the live-stream of someone struggling through Fortnite?

We live in a very weird time with a glut of entertainment options, many of which (including most social media, which has ceased being a supplement to life, but is supplanting the actual living of it) cast YOU as the star. Movies are making more money than ever before, but they almost have to, because if they don’t, the whole industry will collapse and become part of at least 2 or 3 other industries as not much more than a bonus-feature to their primary appeal.

If, in that scenario, Star Wars isn’t as earth-shatteringly exciting and alluring to audiences, I wouldn’t be (and am not) surprised. It’s not the 80s, or even the 90s. And honestly, I don’t think it’s a bad thing.

I think the last chapter of the Skywalker Saga is going to make a ton of money (more domestic than abroad, but still) and then we’ll see as the entire market shifts and tilts in new directions to adjust for the fracturing and splintering of attention spans even further. And if Star Wars becomes a secondary (or even tertiary) concern at the box-office from that point forward, I’m pretty fine with it. Being a Star Wars fan has always sorta/kinda been like rooting for the Dallas Cowboys or the New York Yankees anyway, to be honest. It’s what’s made people act like they’re special for being a Star Wars fan seem weird, to me. “Oh, congrats, you’re a super-big fan of like, the most popular things ever made for theaters. How unique.” If people are somehow made to focus less on all the CULTURAL IMPORTANCE and BOX OFFICE SIGNIFICANCE and THE POWER OF MYTH and instead have to simply reckon with the movies AS movies, without hanging a bunch of historical weight on everything Star Wars-related… that’s not really a bad thing, I don’t think.

Anyway, I’m revising my domestic total up to $735 mil.

Post
#1303891
Topic
Harmy's THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Despecialized Edition HD !!!MKV and AVCHD v2.0 NOW AVAILABLE!!!
Time

SleepyBear said:

Somebody get these.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/STAR-WARS-Empire-Strikes-Back-35mm-Film-Print-Movie-TV-TRAILER-Scope-WORKPRINTS/254392308894?hash=item3b3af6949e:g:6ZQAAOSwMWddfdQk#viTabs_0

If I’m reading the description correctly - he’s charging 1200 bucks for two 30 second TRAILERS. Not a print of the movie. $600 per trailer, 2 trailers total, basically.

Post
#1303196
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Yeah, I got the general sentiment of that breakdown but the idea that “The prequels are substance without excitement” doesn’t hold up to too much scrutiny. There isn’t really a lot of substance there. There COULD have been, but Lucas wasn’t interested in working his material until it coalesced. All three of his prequel scripts were messes (Attack of the Clones wasn’t even finished when they started shooting, and by “finished” I’m pretty sure that meant “second draft”)

Unformed sketches of larger ideas aren’t the same as substance. BUT: I get what that saying is going for. I think it’s more accurate to say

Original Trilogy: Fun myth
Prequel Trilogy: Boring backstory
Sequel Trilogy: Eager Remix

Post
#1303179
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

This is why I think studios listening to fans can sometimes be a problem.

Listening to fans is basically never good. Studios shouldn’t really do it at all, honestly. If you can’t trust the filmmakers you hire to make a movie without bringing up the comments section to backseat drive, you’re always going to end up with compromised storytelling. Well, compromised beyond what happens to it beyond normal storytelling.

If you make a great movie, you’ll have fans. If you aim your movie AT fans, you’re almost always going to sacrifice any potential for greatness. It’s limiting. It’s the difference between Quentin Tarantino’s career and Kevin Smith’s.

Post
#1303138
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

If it’s a question of whether anything you just saw in Star Wars was planned before they started making the movie you’re watching, the answer is almost always no.

Also: Bendemption is definitely happening. That was a foregone conclusion the second we found out Palpatine was back.

But Reylo isn’t gonna happen. Not unless you so heavily dilute what Reylo is until it basically just means “Kylo is nice to Rey once and helps her.” But there’s nothing romantic happening between the two.

Post
#1300556
Topic
List of most current preservation versions (harmy's despecialized, 4k77, 4k83)
Time

:shrug:

Again, I apologize for any rankling or wrinkling. I’m not gonna go overtime to convince anyone of what’s pretty clearly obvious. If people are nervous because what’s happening here is technically illegal, I get it. But I’m also pretty sure none of the methods being used to “protect” anyone is actually protecting anything. If it gives the people here peace of mind to believe the people in charge at Lucasfilm/Fox/Disney don’t know exactly what’s going on and haven’t been lurking this place for the past 20 years, then it’s not my place to try and disrupt it. I apologize for speaking out of turn earlier, and it won’t happen again.

Post
#1300543
Topic
List of most current preservation versions (harmy's despecialized, 4k77, 4k83)
Time

It’s literally not a risk. There’s no risk.

Everyone knows we’re here and what we’re doing here. It’s not secret and nobody’s gotten fooled. If we were all going to be sued into oblivion it would have happened by now. We’re not important enough to go after, and likely never will be. We’re the only people that care and there’s not enough of us to pose any financial threat.

Which makes it extra weird to see a release get announced and watch the rain of PM requests and questions, 15+ years after the place was any sort of viable destination, as to what and how MySpleen works. I don’t know why pointing out that two of the most successful editors have decided on their own that these weird traditions are worth abandoning is supposed to make me rethink my initial post. It seems to be more a point in my favor, if anything.

Anyway, just a thought that I’d had for a while that sprang to mind after seeing that one post. Sorry for any rankles or wrinkles.