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Brewzter

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14-Jul-2020
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22-Apr-2021
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Post
#1420092
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

RogueLeader said:

From a fan-editing perspective, I feel like I see two strong directions people tend to lean in.

  1. People who want to keep the gist of how TROS played. Just try to improve the movie that is there, even if you don’t agree with every decision.

  2. People who liked TLJ tend to hard disagree with TROS’ story decisions more, so they have a stronger inclination to change the film more drastically.

Interesting, I loved TLJ but just want to touch up on TROS. The aim of my edit is too remain as close to canon as possible and just fix minor things in my eyes, so sometimes I think “why am I even bothering with an edit, like I’d rather just be okay with the theatrical cut that would be so much easier” but then I immediately remember how much some of the changes (Force ghosts behind Rey, Battle of the Heroes over the DSII duel, crackly saber, color correction, etc.) improve the movie for me lol

Post
#1420062
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I mean, yeah, it wasn’t a good continuation of TLJ objectively speaking. Isn’t related at all to its ideas really. But was it a good continuation/finale of the sequels for me? Yes, because now I am actually able to go back and enjoy TLJ as well.

Yeah as much as I dislike parts of TROS, none it feels like it retcons TLJ to me and TLJ still remains my favorite film by far.

Post
#1419623
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

NeverarGreat said:

RogueLeader said:

I just feel like we relented and are just trying to see the positives of the story they gave us, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But I guess I wish there was more recognition of the fact that maybe this wasn’t the best direction they could’ve gone in.

People will eventually accept the bars of TROS’s storytelling cage just as they accepted the limitations of the prequels in order to continue consuming new Star Wars content.

As for me, I’m still salty as Crait about it.

Absolutely, it’s been happening since they finished and will only get better as more time passes and more supporting content (like TCW for the prequels) comes out,

Post
#1419594
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

sherlockpotter said:

I think the biggest failing of TROS was bringing back Palpatine. Kylo was set up in TLJ to be the ultimate villain, and then he was just sidelined in favor of “rotting grandpa GLaDOS.”

I don’t think it’s wrong for Kylo to be redeemed, so I disagree with Dual of the Fates; but I also think he has to more than just redeem himself - he has to fail before he can be saved. TROS should have been the culmination of a really interesting negative character arc; and instead, he just spends the entire movie chasing after Rey. Then his mom dies, and he just…snaps out of it, I guess?

If I were writing the script, it would have focused on Kylo trying to be the Big, Bad, Supreme Leader, but failing at it. The galaxy, inspired by Luke, is revolting everywhere he looks, and the First Order is spread way too thin. The First Order Generals and Admirals are all starting to question his abilities to lead; Hux is planning a coup, and is waiting for the right time to strike. Kylo is stressing out. He was already somewhat unstable (as seen in TFA), but now he’s just going crazy. Any time someone questions his orders, he cuts them down. And the more he loses control, the more the First Order splinters, the stronger the Resistance grows. He’s the maker of his own downfall.

Because he was wrong to pursue this path. He was wrong to join the First Order. He was wrong to seek this power, power that he’s not equipped to wield. And, try as he might to ignore that fact, over the course of the film, he has to finally come to terms with it.

When he finally turns back to the light, he does it in order to save his mother (building off of that moment in TLJ). And then, he sacrifices himself not just to save one person, but to undo all of the damage that he’s done to the galaxy, to atone for his sins. His final act is to destroy what remains of the First Order at the cost of his own life. Leia survives, and goes on to rebuild the Republic (correctly, this time); and Ben is able to visit her as a Ghost.

I really don’t have any major issues with VII or VIII overall (even if they could be improved upon); but IX was the only film in the bunch to truly fail for me.

Palpatine needed to be brought back. By bringing him back this ties the entire Skywalker saga together and gives IX a sense of true finality; he also needed to be related to Rey, to reinforce her toxic core belief that she is worthless. It also pays off RotS, in which he was set up to have a power to keep himself alive in a way Plagueis couldn’t.

Regarding the “tying the Skywalker saga together” thing, Abrams said this:

…when you look at this as nine chapters of a story, perhaps the weirder thing would be if Palpatine didn’t return. You just look at what he talks about, who he is, how important he is, what the story is — strangely, his absence entirely from the third trilogy would be conspicuous.

I completely agree that Palpatine is one of TROS’s biggest strengths. Not only do I think it was necessary for the saga to make sense as a whole and to actually feel like a saga, but I think Palpatine was done exceptionally well in the film… For awhile I’ve felt fairly neutral about Rey’s Palpatine lineage, I really liked Rey Nobody in TLJ, etc. but I think I’m at the point where I actually like it, mostly for all of the different symbolism and messages it brings, especially with Ben’s final act being to revive Rey and then her taking on the Skywalker name- what better defeat could Palpatine have had than not only being destroyed by his own kin (backed by the spirits of his eternal enemies) but then the final living member of the three-generation bloodline born to combat him giving his life to revive his granddaughter, who takes on the Skywalker name to honor, preserve, and carry on their legacy? Love it.

Post
#1419527
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I personally just dislike the idea that Kylo had to die to atone for his sins. He was a young man. Should he feel regret about his choices for the rest of his life? Absolutely. But he should channel that into doing positive things for the galaxy.

Vader was a completely different circumstance. Living in his body was a living hell, and he had already spent the other half of his life trying to be a good person as a Jedi. He was also old enough for his death to not be so tragic.

Yeah, while I bemoan Ben’s death a lot, at least it was Ben’s death and not Kylo’s. TROS would’ve been truly awful/irredeemable in my eyes if he hadn’t been redeemed to some degree lol. I’m like, hey, we got his redemption in a really good scene with Han, we got him absolutely fucking up the knights, we got the Reylo kiss! Did I want him to talk with Anakin? Of course. Should he have lived? Absolutely. Why didn’t he have a single line of dialogue (ow)? No clue. But it could’ve been way worse :S

Post
#1419485
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:
Anyways, to answer your question directly, I believe that the writers really missed the mark by having Ben Solo die in the end. It would have been much more compelling for Ben’s character arc in the sequels to be a foil (opposite) of Anakin’s in the prequels - beginning in darkness, rising above it, and living on after his transformation to restore light to the galaxy with a certain Palpatine by his side, if you know what I mean.

It would have allowed Anakin to have an indirect but crucial role in the storyline, and we all know this saga is supposed to be about him. His legacy being something Kylo revered in TFA was a good decision.

Couldn’t agree more.

Post
#1418704
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

Knight of Kalee said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

@Hal 9000 The scavenger clothing is part of who Rey is, why would we want to take that away?

Isn’t this the entire lifestyle Rey wanted to run away from and associated with her being worthless? 😕

The “scavenger clothing” thing was something I found on the cantina subreddit in defense of Rey wearing that style of clothing in TRoS.

I’ll copy and paste a great relevant post from the cantina sub I saved awhile ago from u/ludwigritcher752:

In The Force Awakens (2015), we learn that, 30 years after the events of Return Of The Jedi (1983), Han and Leia are now separated due to what happened to between Luke and Ben (without knowing what Luke actually did). Han became the famous smuggler again and Leia went back to her political and military occupations, becoming a general. When their relationship was broken, both returned to what they were before they met for the first time.

Assuming that the heart of the Sequel Trilogy is the relationship/romance between Rey and Kylo, Han and Leia relationship in the Sequel Trilogy is almost a “foreshadowing” of what was going to happen between the heroine and the villain, specially between The Last Jedi (2017) and The Rise Of Skywalker (2019), or at least is a very good rhyme.

At the end of The Last Jedi (2017), after the development of a deeper and more intimate dynamic between Rey and Kylo, Rey closes the door on him. They broke up. The idea that, when a couple brakes up, they both return to what they were before their first met plays again with Kylo and Rey.

In The Rise Of Skywalker (2019), Kylo reconstructs his mask (symbolizing that he is now the same Kylo that we met at the beginning of The Force Awakens) and Rey has now a very similar outfit and haircut to her TFA look when we first met her in Jakku.

Even the idea of Ben coming home in The Rise Of Skywalker mirrors with Han’s own situation in The Force Awakens, when Maz says to him “Go home” and responds “Leia doesn’t want to see me”. Han and Kylo feelings are pretty much the same: they don’t believe that they will be accepted again. In the case of Kylo in The Rise Of Skywalker, this works with both Leia and Rey.

We all criticize how J.J. brought back Kylo’s mask and Rey’s three buns and how this contradicts what Rian established in The Last Jedi, but there’s nothing we can do about it and the best thing we can do is to trying to make sense out of it and making the Sequel Trilogy more consistent. Intentionally or not, I think this idea works pretty well.

And then a great comment by u/Pyramaniac:

Destroying the mask doesn’t contradict TLJ. Destroying the mask was out of frustration of being a knock off and failure to live up to Vader, not necessarily to let the past die. When Kylo said let the past die, he meant the Jedi, the Sith, the Empire of Old, etc. and make the future his way, a new order as per his vision.

He resurrected the mask because he felt confident that he could live up to Vader in turning Rey dark and killing Palpatine. He openly told Palpatine twice that he’d kill him after being subservient to Snoke, and actually succeeded in turning Rey to the dark side before Leia turned him back.

We openly see Kylo calmly and contently embracing Vader’s mask, as opposed to in TFA where he was anxious and insecure.

There are multiple ways to interpret it. In 7, he clung to the past. In 8, he was hell-bent on killing it, which Totally lost him the fight with Luke. In 9, he found balance with the past and was a new man. Did you see how he wiped the floor with Rey?

The mask was like working out a muscle. It was weak in 7, Got ripped in 8, and grew bigger in 9.

In 7, he tried to hide behind the mask as much as possible. In 9, he took it on and off as he pleased.

Rian Johnson himself even said breaking the mask didn’t represent letting the past die.

Nothing got contradicted at all, the mask just went in a direction that flew over everyone’s head.

These movies are clever as HELL. That’s why people don’t understand them and complain.

I actually included this post and comment in a cantina post I made where I collected all of the visual parallels, themes, etc. in TROS that helped me appreciate it (DM me if you want a link to the post), so I’ll include my comment I put below it:

I’ve always liked how Kylo’s journey with Vader’s legacy is symbolized through his mask. He worships Vader’s mask and makes his own, but then he forgets about Vader’s and destroys his own when Snoke tells her he hasn’t lived up to the legacy. However, after encountering Vader’s master a year later who tells him he can not only live up to Vader but surpass him, he feels confident in himself and brings out Vader’s mask to meditate on it again which inspires him to reforge his own, even stronger now with the Sith metal Sarassian iron used as the glue.

Edit: Forgot to include the post and not just the comment lol

Post
#1415198
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

sherlockpotter said:

Brewzter said:

In the final scene of TFA, the Falcon approaches the island from this angle which lines up with how the TLJ VD map shows the ship parked on that coast. The map shows Luke’s X-Wing on the far left side of the island from this orientation- in TROS, the establishing shot of the island shows Rey burning Kylo’s ship in the same area of the island. Let’s call this spot the “inlet” as the TLJ VD does. Since Rey hears Luke first start lifting the X-Wing while she’s digging the Wayfinder out of Kylo’s ship and then is able to run over in-time to see it lifted, that further confirms that she burnt Kylo’s ship right at the inlet. Next, the TLJ VD map shows that the temple cliff where Luke dies is also directly next to the inlet. I checked the TLJ novelization which says that he’s watching a sunset as he dies, not a sunrise, which means the suns must set in the direction the inlet is facing. Since the original TROS shows the remaining sunlight in the establishing shot coming from that direction, it lines up with the novelization saying this occurs at sunset. At the end of the Ahch-To scene when Luke lifts his X-Wing from the ocean, he’s facing the ocean from the inlet and the sun rises behind him, which again confirms our now well-established sense of geography.

First off, that’s an insane amount of detail you had to track, so mad props to you for that.

I think the current goal of the scene is for Rey to arrive on Ahch-To at night, start burning the ship, then have the heart to heart with Luke, grab the lightsaber, and get out of there. In which case, as you said, “the sun rises behind [Luke]…when [he] lifts his X-Wing from the ocean.” So aren’t we good? I feel like the time of day/night still matches up.

It’s just a weird sequence of events. In the film, the whole thing seems to happen at midday over the course of about an hour. In the novel, doesn’t it say that it takes place from dusk to dawn (while they’re also under a time crunch)? So, does it take place during the day, or during the night? Is the film “canon,” or is the novel?

I think Neverar’s grade feels best in terms of visually tracking the passage of time, and also symbolically. So that has my vote, once those last new nitpicks are ironed out.

Thanks! It was definitely maddening at one point trying to make sense of it all haha.

And yeah I believe the current plan for Ascendant is for Rey to arrive in the early morning and then have the events on the island take place over the course of a couple of hours as the suns rise throughout the scenes. What I was proposing is to tweak the edit to follow what the novelization says, which is that she arrived in the evening, talked with Luke, slept overnight, then got the Wayfinder, and finally left in the morning. Given the location of the suns in the sky when she arrives and then when she leaves, this is actually shown in the movie, but I’m pretty sure it was just an oversight by the filmmakers and they intended it to be early morning to sunrise. Someone in the Story Group probably took notice and then just had it fixed in the novelization to say she was there overnight. Since I like this version more anyway, my idea was to just clarify it, but it might be a little tricky since the movie literally shows her starting to leave the hut to go get the Wayfinder immediately. I totally get why most people don’t want to see Ascendant attempt to include this, but I’ll definitely be trying to work it this way in my own edit 😃

Post
#1415137
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I agree that the update looks really good. Even as it is, I think the edit can be interpreted in the canonical way I suggested. With the darkened hut scene Neverar just provided (that I apparently missed the first time lol) I may just be able to accomplish what I want to see in my own edit. In any case I’m glad to just get the idea out there. Thanks for the link to the hut clip, Nev!

Post
#1415130
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I’ve given myself such a headache over this.

I grabbed my copy of the TROS novelization and reread the Ahch-To chapter; it specifies that Rey arrived in the evening as the suns were setting and, after talking to Luke and receiving Leia’s saber, Luke had Rey sleep through the night to rest before heading off. When she woke in the morning, Kylo’s ship was now smoldering. Rey went and retrieved the Wayfinder from Kylo’s ship, watched Luke lift his X-Wing from the ocean as the suns rose, then set course for Exegol.

So what I propose is that we slightly tweak the edit, and here’s why:

The visual dictionary for TLJ contains a map of the island:

https://starwarsblog.starwars.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2018/03/star-wars-last-jedi-visual-dictionary-temple-island-interior-page.jpg

As you can see, the map depicts a bird’s eye view oriented with the bottom coast being the one we see in the TROS establishing shot of the island (which most shots of the island through the three films are also from). Here’s proof:

In the final scene of TFA, the Falcon approaches the island from this angle which lines up with how the TLJ VD map shows the ship parked on that coast. The map shows Luke’s X-Wing on the far left side of the island from this orientation- in TROS, the establishing shot of the island shows Rey burning Kylo’s ship in the same area of the island. Let’s call this spot the “inlet” as the TLJ VD does. Since Rey hears Luke first start lifting the X-Wing while she’s digging the Wayfinder out of Kylo’s ship and then is able to run over in-time to see it lifted, that further confirms that she burnt Kylo’s ship right at the inlet. Next, the TLJ VD map shows that the temple cliff where Luke dies is also directly next to the inlet. I checked the TLJ novelization which says that he’s watching a sunset as he dies, not a sunrise, which means the suns must set in the direction the inlet is facing. Since the original TROS shows the remaining sunlight in the establishing shot coming from that direction, it lines up with the novelization saying this occurs at sunset. At the end of the Ahch-To scene when Luke lifts his X-Wing from the ocean, he’s facing the ocean from the inlet and the sun rises behind him, which again confirms our now well-established sense of geography.

Sorry if that was dense and confusing, but what I’m trying to say is that in the current state of Neverar’s edit, we’re assuming that we’re seeing the break of dawn, and then as the scene goes on, the suns rise and Rey leaves. If we slightly tweaked this, it would not only be more accurate to the other two movies, but it would make the passage of time clearer AND accurate to what the novelization clarifies. Here’s what would need to be changed:

-We now know that the sun is setting instead of rising at the start of the scene, so leaving this the same is more accurate canonically.

-When Luke tells Rey that she has everything she needs, she seemingly starts to leave the hut, and the way the original movie flows, it seems like she just runs to the ship immediately. I assume that this was the filmmakers’ intention and the novelization corrected this since otherwise, the sunrise position would be inaccurate in the first shot. If we simply cut the shot of Rey off right before she takes off (or just cut the entire shot of Rey, Luke finishes his entire line in the shot facing him), it would seem as though Rey stays in the hut, which she canonically does and helps give off the idea she stays the night in the hut to regain her strength.

-The current edit tries to make the scene start at dawn and progress the sun, so the scene progression of establishing shot > Rey burning the ship > Luke’s talk > Hut scene > Lifting the X-Wing gets a bit lighter each time. This could probably be fixed by either slightly lightening the establishing shot or darkening the hut scene.

-I’m not sure how well the scene would flow after trimming the last shot of the Hut scene, so maybe we could add in a new shot of the island here? With the color correction applied, it would help make the transition from late evening to early morning clear. Maybe we could also try a night shot or two to make the passage of night clearer.

-The rest of the edited scene stays the same for Rey retrieving the Wayfinder and Luke lifting the X-Wing at sunrise.

Figuring all this out ended up being a far longer process and comment than I expected haha so thanks for reading this far. As someone who’s passionate about canon, I’d love to see this tweaking realized (hopefully this post doesn’t sound like a demand) and while I can’t do any color correcting myself, I may try to make a mockup of the other changes I suggested.

Post
#1415078
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

I wasn’t planning on using this in my edit, but wow your clips look great! I might use them just for the aesthetic and giving the idea that she was there for a decent bit of time. Couple things:

-Could someone remind me what the original intended purpose of having it seem that Rey is on Temple Island for longer is, and

-Does anyone know how long she was canonically there? I thought at some point someone mentioned that the novelization implied she was there for a decent bit of time but I can’t remember

Post
#1414659
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

new shot from MR to move “T minus five” line to before exiting hyperspace (not sure about this one yet, may leave as original)

What does this mean?

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I have an idea suggestion + a concept of it. There is a shot of Kylo in a surrounding that looks like his chambers on his Star Destroyer in the documentary. If you place it at the beginning of the mind link scene with Rey touching the dagger in his chambers, it makes it look like Kylo is right behind her… only to reveal that he isn’t. And then later on the fight, it appears they are fighting in his quarters while Kylo isn’t actually there, and that they are fighting on Kijimi’s surface while Rey isn’t actually there. So it all makes sense.

It’s a subtle change, but I feel it adds to the intensity of the “jumpscare”, if you will 😃

https://youtu.be/mZZtmKSKhqc

Important clarification: This change is inspired by Fixing Disney Star Wars.

Also, there is a slight audio pop there but that’s just because my editing software is bad. That wouldn’t be there in the final product.

I actually really like this! Works well imo

And I can’t believe I’ve never seen that deleted Kylo/Falcon. Wish it had been included in the original movie

Post
#1414519
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

Movies Remastered said:

I just found out about the comic strip of Chewie playing with Ben when he was a kid and him having flashback while having a clear headshot in TFA. He then switched to a hip shot because of their connection. I thought that was pretty cool.

It’s such a good headcanon right? Hopefully we eventually see that TROS deleted scene of them together which would be close enough. Cannot imagine why it was cut

Post
#1414382
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

krausfadr said:
saying “we’ve become a dyad” ends the possibility of always having been a dyad. Saying “we are a dyad” leaves it open to interpretation in either direction… they could have always been one or recently become one.

Agreed, and personally I prefer the always-dyad

And I’m interested in seeing the “undoing” line making it’s way into the film but I agree it doesn’t really fit the lightning scene. Would be cool to have a clean version of the line to play around with in different placements

Post
#1414249
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

IlFanEditore makes a good point about the TROKR comic, I forgot about that moment with Rey! Just went back and reread that scene, love that they included young Rey sensing Ben’s fall as he kills Ren.

In case anyone is curious, I checked the TROS visual dictionary which says little about the dyad, but I did find it does explicitly state that Snoke knew about it, so that confirms Snoke isn’t literally Palpatine’s eyes and ears.

Wookieepedia also says that the dyad was an ancient Sith prophecy (in the same way that the Chosen One was an ancient Jedi prophecy) which predicted the incredible Force bond between two individuals. This was part of Darth Bane’s inspiration for starting the Rule of Two, and the end goal was for a dyad to form between the ultimate Sith. This is sourced by the TROS novelization and man, I’ve gotta give that a reread.

Given that Palpatine believed he was the ultimate Sith whose purpose was to finally destroy the Jedi (which he was right to believe lol), he attempted to form a dyad with Anakin as his apprentice but it of course failed. I think it’s symbolically beautiful that the two final Sith attempted to form a dyad of the Dark but in the end, the grandchild of each were a dyad of the Light.

Plus it’s cool that Palpatine is initially killed as a result of an ancient Jedi prophecy and then, after messing with Dark-side Force powers to cling onto life, was permanently destroyed by the result of an ancient Sith prophecy.