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Botias Teckett

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13-Jun-2018
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15-Oct-2018
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Post
#1248770
Topic
Star Wars: A Galaxy Betrayed – A 3-in-1 edit of the prequels - Released
Time

swagbeditor said:

Anyway, thank you again so so so much for taking the time to do this critique, and I hope you appreciate my responses and get a little more insight into what I was thinking!

No worries, and thanks for the detailed response. It definitely helps me better understand your reasons for putting things together the way you did. Thanks again for all your great work on this edit.

FWIW My brother and I have been watching the Despecialized Editions in Machete Order over the last few days, with AGB swapped in for the full prequels. AGB works really well when viewed after Empire, I’ve actually enjoyed it more than the on first watch. My brother said he kept bracing himself for cringy bits and then being pleasantly surprised when they just weren’t there 😉

Post
#1237867
Topic
Star Wars: A Galaxy Betrayed – A 3-in-1 edit of the prequels - Released
Time

I agree with Marduk on points 1 and 2.

“Dooku and greivous are both terrible characters.”

I agree with this too, sort of. The problem I have with these characters (and Maul) is that there are just too many major villains in the prequels, so none of them get enough screen time to come across as anything but cartoony. Compare this to the original trilogy, where we have only three major villains (Vader, The Emperor, and Jabba), all of whom get enough character development for us to know who they are and some bad things they’ve done to our heroes, and feel some catharsis when they die. All the other villains are relatively minor characters, who exist to give the major villains someone to deliver exposition to, and take the fall when the villains’ plans fail.

If only a script editor had convinced Lucas to leave one of the major villains out of the prequel films, that would have left more narrative room to develop the other two. For example, the cyborg character that was Grievous in the prequels makes sense in the Clone Wars, but his cartoonishness is discordant in live-action films. Imagine if the character referred to as “General Grievous” (or some other pseudonym) had been revealed to be the cyborg Maul that turns up in the Clone Wars series. This would have given Obiwan a much more powerful motive for killing him (revenge for the death of Qui Gon) when he realizes who the infamous “General Grievous” really is, as well as nicely foreshadowing the Sidious tactic of using droid tech to keep his apprentices alive. It would have given “Grievous” a back story, which he really doesn’t have in Ep 3, he just turns up, chews some scenery, and gets killed in a ridiculously overdone battle (for a live-action film, would have been a great sequence in Clone Wars!). Compare this to how Boba Fett dies, a character we actually know and have significant reason to hate on when he gets taken out.

All of this is just another example of “you can’t polish a turd”, and so is the way Lucas’ script under-utilizes Dooku. I actually like Dooku as a character, and when you trim out the silly acrobatics, and some of the cornier dialogue, Lee’s performance adds some much-needed gravitas to the sequels (as does Max von Sydow as Lor San Tekka in Ep 7). Sadly, in the prequals he’s not much more than a puppet to hang plot points on; a troublemaker fronting the Separatists so Sidious can stay in the shadows, a boss fight at the end of Ep 2, and someone for Anny to kill at the start of Ep 3. Removing Grievous from Ep 3 could have allowed more development of Dooku’s character. He could have been a much more morally grey character, someone who maybe really believed in the Separatist cause, that the Jedi and the Republic were corrupt, and thought he was doing the right thing, as Anny does when he saves Palpy because he thinks it’s necessary to save his wife.

For example, Dooku’s death could have come much later in the third film, some time after the scene where Anny (accidentally) helps Sidious kill Windy. Having him turn to the dark side right then feels too rushed to me, there were no witnesses and Palpy could have manipulated him into covering it up, leaving him struggling with his conscience for a while. Killing Dooku could serve as the point where Anny finally gives in, and replaces the man he’s just killed as Sidious’ apprentice (thus foreshadowing Sidious trying to get Luke to do the same in Ep 6). Maybe by the time that happens, Dooku could have started questioning his loyalties, wondering if maybe he was wrong to turn against the Jedi and ally himself with Sidious. That way, by the time Anny kills him we could have been hoping he would be redeemed (foreshadowing the redemption of Anny himself at the end of Ep 6). Maybe Dooku is confronting or even trying to kill Palpatine when Anny takes him out, so Dooku is kind of redeemed, making us feel some sympathy for him and mixed feelings about his death as we did with Vader (despite all the expectations set up in Ep 4-6).

All that said, fan editors have to work with what they were given in the theatrical, disc, and streaming releases. I take the AGB editor’s point about Grievous being mentioned a lot as a MacGuffin, and I agree there would be a frustrating hole left if he never appeared at all. Unless there was some way to retcon that “General Grievous” is actually a code name for Count Dooku, so all the Grievous stuff could be removed, and some of the (non-cringy) Dooku stuff could be put back in the space left?

Post
#1236894
Topic
Star Wars: A Galaxy Betrayed – A 3-in-1 edit of the prequels - Released
Time

Finally got some time to watch this, having already checked out the Neon Noir edit, and Ep I of the Anti-Cheese edits. Overall thoughts; you can’t polish a turd. There are just so many things wrong with the theatrical releases that unlike A New Hope, the prequels can’t really be saved in the edit (https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk). At least, not by an editor who didn’t have access to all the footage that hit the cutting room floor, and the original actors to add new dialogue. That said, you’ve made some bold choices, turning about 9 hours of epic fail into about two hours of reasonably enjoyable movie. Stirling effort.

Here’s some things I’d suggest if you ever revisit this:

  • the Anti-Cheese edits replace the Trade Federation frog guys irritating accents with alien language and subtitles, which makes their characters much less campy and more sinister (that editor did the same to Jar Jar and it improves him more than you’d expect, but still not enough). Would you consider doing the same (with the TF guys that is, Jar Jar is just fine as background noise)?

  • the Maul/ Qui Con, Obiwan fight did need heavy pruning, but you might have cut too much. The major failing of the prequel fights is that they’re all stunts and no character development, unlike the original trilogy (and The Matrix), where fights are used to add tension and visual flair to dialogue that deepens our understanding of characters’ attributes, attitudes, and motives (“I’m your father!”, “your weakness … is not your technique.”). Qui Gon getting stuck behind the force field and stopping to meditate, while Maul paces, was one of the better parts of that sequence, and gets to the heart of both characters better than any other part of Ep I. I would put that bit back in.

  • I don’t know that you need the “10 years later” titles. You could use the Annakin/ Obiwan elevator scene as a transition, as it has that piece of dialogue “I haven’t seen her in 10 years, master”, which also sets up Amidala’s arrival and the explosion on the landing bay. I would cut the corny “nest of gundarks” dialogue, and start that scene with Obiwan saying “you’re sweating, relax”. You could cut straight to “it’s a great pleasure to see you again my lady” from “I will have Master Obiwan report to you immediately”, the elevator scene just slows the pace there anyway.

  • The droid dialogue you dubbed in is great, but I would end it at “no contact with Geonosis for decades Master Kenobi”. I know we’re all used to C3PO having emotions (why? WHY?!?), but having the droid say “please be careful” is too emotive for a human technician, let alone a droid one.

  • “Shmi is my wife” this is pretty obvious from the context. Like the Cliegg mourning monologue you cut, that line is stating the obvious and detracts from the tension of that scene.

  • Watto makes no sense. Why would any sentient being waste energy flapping tiny wings just to hover in the air? Especially one whose character has been established as a miser. Also, his accent is irritating and his dialogue is corny. Is it possible to completely remove him? You’ve cut out all the Ep 1 storyline where Shmi was set up as his slave. So you could just have Annakin arrive at the Lars residence, his mother has remarried while he’s been with the Jedi, and he’s using the force to track her or whatever. Or, Watto could be an old acquaintance, and his English language dialogue could be dubbed with alien language, with subtitles saying something like “Schmi Skywalker? She married a Cliegg Lars, she’s living at his moisture farm on the other side of Mos Eisley”, and the scene concluded before he starts flying for no reason.

  • I agree with no Yoda light saber fights, but did we have to completely lose the Dooku/ Annakin/ Obiwan fight? Is there no way to have Yoda do force powers but no light saber fighting? Without any of this fight, we don’t see Annakin lose his hand, which is important foreshadowing of his later transformation into cyborg Vader, as well as setting up part of his motivation for killing Dooku.

  • R2 jumping out of Annakin’s ship breaks continuity, like all other instances of R2 jumping or flying, which you’ve removed (good job). R2 units have to be lifted into and out of ships all through the original trilogy. Is it possible to cut that shot and just have it seem like R2 has winched himself out of the ship some other way while the Jedi were fighting?

  • Dooku jumping down, when it would be more in character for him to have walked down the stairs with dignity, looks better without the silly somersault, but why not cut it completely and skip straight to “your swords please”?

  • “you won’t get away this time Dooku” might be the silliest, most clichéd line they had Owen McGregor say in all three movies. Can you cut it, and skip straight to him lighting up his lightsaber, not dignifying Dooky’s patronizing statement with a response?

  • “Do it!” I miss that line. I think it’s important that we see Palpy giving Annakin little shoves towards the dark side at critical moments of vulnerability and indecision.

  • Dooku dropping a huge hunk of bridge on Obiwan would kill anyone, even an unconscious Jedi. I would cut that, and the bits where we see that it actually didn’t land on Obiwan even though it totally looked like it did. I’d cut from Annakin running in Obiwan’s direction to Palpy saying “Annakin, there’s no time”, then cut to the shot of the outside of the ship, with Palpy saying “we must get off the ship before it’s too late” and fade in the music and battle sounds (we don’t need to see or hear Annakin saying “he seems to be alright”, that will become obvious pretty quickly). I would also leave out that tiny shot of Annakin carrying Obiwan. That way when they all get up, it looks like they’re still in the same room (from a different angle), Annakin and Palpy have been knocked over by the spaceship battle, and Obiwan has recovered (he was only stunned from being thrown across the room).

  • if you’re not going to have the crash-landing, there’s no point leaving in all the set-up for it. The question is, where do you go after Grievous launches the escape pods? One option is to grab that later scene with Amidala, Mon Mothma and the other senators discussing the founding of the Rebel Alliance (was that a deleted scene, I don’t remember MM being in the original), and insert it before Annakin, Obiwan, and Palpy fly into the spaceport. That would fit nicely with the darker side of Palpy we’ve just seen him show Annakin, make his safe return seem more unsettling, and cast a sinister light on Amidala telling Anny she’s pregnant, and Palpy telling him he’s placing him on the Jedi Council. Finally, it means cutting from Anny seeing Obiwan off to go after Grievous, to Amidala asking Anny to talk to Palpy on her behalf (isn’t that what happened in the cinema release anyway?).

  • “something wonderful has happened” is a terrible line. However happy Amidala is about having Anny’s baby, she’s clearly nervous about becoming pregnant during a civil war, and it just doesn’t ring true. Can you cut it?

  • the Palpy announcing Anny’s job on the Jedi Council scene might work better if it runs straight into the Windu telling him he doesn’t get the rank of master scene, then to the Yoda, Windu, and Obiwan discussing Palpy scene, then to the Annakin complaining about not getting the rank of Master scene. Two fast, short, thematically connected scenes, followed by two longer, slower, less connected scenes, feels like it might make for better pacing.

  • that whole scene with Obiwan, Windy, and Yoda talking about Annakin not liking his assignment, dangerous putting them together (don’t they already hang out?) etc etc adds nothing, and could be completely removed, cutting straight from “the Council is asking you to do this” to Anny arriving at the opera.

  • “we’ll be able to capture that monster and end this war” is a corny line. I would just have Anny say “at last”, and cut back to Palpy’s next line.

  • “hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo, so long ago when there was nothing but our love” please god no. Why not just end this scene after “don’t shut me out”? Leave Anny and Amidala in conflict and let some tension build in their relationship. Or, maybe cut out the lines between “hold me” and “no politics, no plotting, no war”. Is there are shot (a close-up of Anny or something?) you could cut to as a transition? Close-ups of R2 and C3PO were often used for this sort of thing in the original trilogy.

  • if you insist on keeping the lizard riding, can you fix the ridiculous noise it makes? It takes me out of the scene every time.

  • is there a way to excise the other Jedi masters from the Palpy / Windu fight scene? It’s pathetic how quickly they all die. If Lucas didn’t want a group fight, why did he have Windu bring back-up, instead of under-estimating Palpy and going by himself? Why didn’t Windu ask him to step down voluntarily before lighting up his light saber and trying to place him under arrest? Why didn’t Palpy just blast Windu with force lightening as soon as he found himself in a corner? Why didn’t Anny just block Windy’s saber, distracting him long enough to allow Palpy to strike, instead of cutting his arm off? Why was there never a conversation where Windy asks Anny why he killed Dooku, and Anny repeats what Palpy said about him being “too dangerous to be left alive”, building Windy’s suspicions about Palpy, and making his repetition of the line in reference to Palpy less of a weird echo? The marshmallow face, OMG, the marshmallow face. There are so many problems with this critical scene, it’s a classic example of what I mean by saying you can’t polish a turd.

  • “unnnnnnlimited pppppppppower!” and “guuuuurdddd” is there any way to get rid of these awful lines?

  • would it be possible to cut Palpy naming Anny “Daaarth … Vaaaadeeeer”, and insert it later, either when Palpy rescues him from the lava, or when he gets put into his cyborg suit?

  • “have faith my love, everything will be set right” yuck. Can you cut that line?

  • can you cut the pointless conversation with Captain Typo, which seems like it was added in the edit to explain why he isn’t with her, which doesn’t need explaining in your version, since we haven’t seen Typo with her for ages.

  • can you cut Obiwan’s hands-on-hips posing in the spaceship door? It looks naff. Maybe put the shot of him coming down the stairs in there?

  • Annakin force-choking Amidala is one of the most unpolishable turds in the whole movie. It would have made way more sense for him to attack Obiwan and for her to get caught in the crossfire somehow. There’s no obvious way to fix it, but you can’t cut it without leaving her lying on the ground for no reason. What about cutting from “liar!” to a quick Obiwan reaction shot, to “you turned her against me”, and then from “your anger and your lust for power have already done that” to “I have brought peace and security to my new empire”, staying with Obiwan’s pause after “already done that” while Annakin is saying “I have brought peace”, then cutting to the shot with Annakin in the foreground and Obiwan behind, as he delivers the rest of the line. There’s one more shot with Amidala on the ground that would need to be dealt with somehow, then she’s gone for the rest of the battle. Could “you will not take her from me” and the force choke go in just before that? Maybe now that Annakin is more enraged, it could make more sense? Especially if you could cut it so that it seems more like he’s grabbing her possessively, rather than just choking her out on purpose like a superhuman wife beater.

  • I seriously love the way you’ve cut the final fight. The original version crosses the line into parody, whereas your version holds the dramatic tension, and shows them as Jedi, not ridiculous gods out of Thor: Ragnarok. The only things I’d change is Obiwan saying “I loved you”, why not leave it at “you were my brother Annakin”? Also, a rearrangement of these lines, so they make more sense:
    Annakin: I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over
    Obiwan: (sadly) I have failed you Annakin
    Annakin: cynical smirk (maybe the one that’s currently after “then you are lost”)
    Obiwan: Annakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil!
    Annakin: The Jedi are evil!
    Obiwan: well then you are lost!
    Then cut straight to Annakin flipping onto the platform Obiwan is on.

  • can you cut the bit where Amidala says Leia’s and Luke’s names? If we’re watching the prequels in release order (or Machete Order), we know this and we don’t need it rubbed in our faces. If you’re watching in Ep order, it’s a major spoiler. Same with the final scenes with the Organa and Lars families with the babies. In fact, I’d cut the birth scene entirely (the robot making boo boo noises is so cringy) and leave the fates of Amidala and her babies hanging in the balance. I’d end on the helmet descending on Vader’s face, and that first asthmatic breath, maybe with Palpy saying “from nooow onnn you will be knooownnn as Daaaarth Vaaaadeeeer” somewhere in there.

There were a couple of other thoughts I had, but taking them on would result in major changes to the plot arc you’ve created. One thought was, is the Zam assassination sequence even necessary? Zam’s only purpose in Ep 2 is to set up the clones and Jango Fett arcs, which you’ve sensibly dispensed with, and the whole ‘flying car chase through the city’ sequence doesn’t really fit the Star Wars aesthetic, it’s too reminiscent of Blade Runner (or worse The Fifth Element or Jupiter Ascending), as the Neon Noir edit makes clear. You could skip all this and insert the Jedi Council scene after “I will have Master Obiwan report to you immediately”, beginning with Windy saying “escort the Senator back to her home planet of Naboo”.

The other thought was, I can see why you did it, but I’m not sure completely removing Tatooine from Ep 1 was the right move, especially because Amidala says “the little boy I knew on Tatooine”, when we never saw them together on Tatooine. If you removed the Zam subplot, that would make some room to stitch in some Ep 1 Tatooine stuff somehow without increasing the running time, to establish that Annakin and Amidala’s relationship begins there, as well as Annakin and Obiwan’s, and to establish Qui Con’s character a bit so we care more about him getting killed (the meditation behind the force field, as mentioned earlier, would contribute to that).

In conclusion, this is definitely the best prequels fan edit I’ve watched so far. You’ve done an amazing job, and thanks for letting me download and enjoy the full version, rather than having to watch the slightly broken YT version.

EDIT: amended intro text to clarify what I meant by A New Hope being “saved”, along with a link to the video telling that story, which I think is well worth a watch if you haven’t seen it already.

Post
#1216529
Topic
Star Wars: Firestorm (The Last Jedi Fan Edit) (* unfinished project *)
Time

I love the sound of all of this except keeping in the steam iron. I agree with you about the leaf scene, for example, the humour is in-scene, not meta. It serves the story and the growing relationship between Rey and Luke. The steam iron would be a great little gag in a parody movie like Spaceballs, but if you’re going for a straight-face Star Wars movie, I really would leave it out. It’s your party though.