BoingoBanshee

This is more of an inquiry if there are any solid fan regrades of the 4K masters of the Burton Batman films out there that removes the ugly teal and restores the original theatrical colour grading, as much as possible?

There are those fanedits by Double O Productions that do an excellent job at restoring the colour to a more authentic look, however those edits also do a ton of revisionist changes like digital changes to optical effects etc, and almost go into George Lucas territory. These edits are very well done and a lot of work is put into them, but it would be nice if the people involved offered an additional 4K encode that only has the fixed colour grade and OG sound mix, and none of the other changes.

What I find interesting is, as far as I’m aware from looking online, nobody else has tackled fixing the colours of the Burton Batman 4K masters, except Double O, who also unfortunately did a ton of extra revisionist changes.

imsorrydave2448 said:

FunkySi said:

I’ll donate $20 towards ‘Escape From The Planet of the Apes’ if you’ll let me?

Unfortunately right now I can’t split them up. I’m still about 350 away from being funded. You can donate at any time though, it’s no rush. This whole thing is going to take a little while to finish. In the future when everything is done and funded I might allow people to donate for specific ones.

I’m definitely interested in donating to specific scans in the future. I can’t afford to donate the full amount, unfortunately.

ifjg said:

Yeah, I don’t think much color correction is needed here. Excellent print. Really looking forward to this.

Yeah, agreed.

If only someone had access to a domesday duplicator and a NTSC VHS of the film, it’d be great to do a capture of the Space Ghost Coast To Coast Jim Carrey/Chuck Russell interviews from that tape which isn’t on any laserdisc/DVD/Blu release, as an extra. It’s such a funny segment.

Also a good master of Xscape’s Who’s That Man music video which isn’t on any release, and the official Youtube upload looks bad.

blakninja said:

I am not sure about color correction for the moment, this is pretty much untouched, people could do their own corrections if they desire. But it’s something I could consider in the longer run.

As for aspect ratio, yes I would do two versions, an open matte version and a 1.85:1 version.

That’s ideal to be honest. It looks lovely.

blakninja said:

Here’s a preview in motion 😃

This looks excellent. Absolutely worthy of the 30th anniversary. Will you be doing some colour correction, and offering a alternate matted encode (ala Dave’s Re-Animator scan)?

blakninja said:

Hi everyone!

Just sharing with you guys a very early sneak peak of the scan! It’s still very raw not much color fixing yet and not full resolution.

Cheers.

It already looks gorgeous raw. So excited to see this.

rwzmjl said:

little-endian said:

rwzmjl said: […]believe it or not, that’s an intended part of the image![…]

I read that argument often lately, but the word “intended” is a crucial premise here as in many cases, it isn’t really but rather a side-effect of technical limitations (which includes our visual system introducing retinal noise as well). Same goes for the stone age low rate of 24 fps only, causing tremendous amounts of temporal aliasing and making a subjectively stutter-free reconstruction difficult.

So while I can understand the sentiment for artistic reasons and preservation, technically, noise isn’t part of the original image which one tried to capture. Noise also limits — or rather defines — measurements such as the SNR.

I’m also entirely up to “preserve” it in terms of not filtering it out, as not only it isn’t possible to do so without losing information from the actual image anyway, but also because it may fit a certain desired look. However, so do noise and crackles on vinyl records which may be preferred emotionally, but shouldn’t be rationally.

One technical advantage of noise in the source shall not go unmentioned though: (self)dithering, enabling a theoretically smooth reconstruction of an unlimited number of shades (and not just 50 of grey) without ugly banding. However, dithering can be artificially added later during the A/D conversion as well in an mathematically optimised way even so even that is a rather far fetched argument.

Very much disagree with this sentiment, as a DP myself who shoots film (s16 for the most part). And it’s not noise (which is a digital artifact); it’s grain.

You are also forgetting that filmmakers had plenty of low grain options available to them if they wanted it, pre-digital-revolution. Especially in 1994. 50D of course, but even more so, the option of shooting Vista Vision or 65mm. In the case of the filmmakers desiring a grainless image but they couldn’t achieve it, that is because of budget limitations (either from the stock they could afford or the amount of light they needed). And is it the right philosophy when it comes to preservation to scrub supposed artifacts that stem from limitations of the production? That would mean redoing vfx, painting out wires, rerecording ADR, etc. No person seriously in favor of film preservation (i.e. not Lucas or Cameron) would opt for that.

Obviously this has nothing to do with shooting a new production. Shoot noiseless footage with an Alexa LF at 60fps if you want; that is no issue (though you might nauseate some audience members).

This.

blakninja said:

Hi everyone,

I just want to say a big thank you to everyone who have donated in the past week. We have accumulated $382.16 to date. Just so you have an idea, the whole project cost an estimated $1025.

We should have an update on the progress of the scan in the next few weeks. Stay tuned. Cheers!

That’s amazing news!

little-endian said:

BoingoBanshee said: Actually, this IS real 4K. 4K isn’t strictly “the camera negative”; you can do 4K scans for any film element.

Well, the same way one can record any audio material at any given sample rate of choice, but that doesn’t mean the original carries that resolution in the first place.

For example, I’m well aware of those “Fake 4K or not” websites where, in the case of, let’s say, a 2K digital intermediate, they rightly criticize that no “Real 4K” performance may be achieved and thus the 4K (actually “UHD”) release is “fake.” However, that view is also a bit misleading and incomplete, as the assumption that film material automatically delivers 4K or whatever resolution just because it was scanned as such technically isn’t correct either.

In practice, some 2K-only productions (at least in parts, such as “Collateral”) may be categorized as “Fake 4K,” whereas some fuzzy “as good as it gets” film source, scanned in 4K, is called “Real 4K,” despite the fact that it may never reach that resolution either and never has. Many may be above 2K level, no question, just to make a point here.

One would actually have to measure the real spatial resolution of such sources (in MHz), and then one could derive the required or equivalent resolution in “pixels” (which theoretically is twice the analog bandwidth according to Nyquist/Shannon) to preserve the original without quality loss.

Back to “The Mask” - I admittedly have no idea what spatial resolution your exemplar comes with, and a 4K/UHD (and maybe even HDR) scan certainly won’t harm. So excitement is justified as the official BD release definitely is mediocre at best by today’s standards.

No denying a film print is nothing compared to a negative. However, if it’s a 4K scan of a film print or an interpositive, then it’s 4K. Saying otherwise kicks sand in the faces of labels like Vinegar Syndrome and Second Sight who have done 4K scans of films like The Beastmaster where their negatives are lost and had to work with best surviving elements and those releases are gorgeous. Doing a 4K scan of a film print outside the studio system is something I would not look down upon or say “eh, it’s not the negative though is it?”. With Warner’s track record of their 4K scans where they actually have access to the negatives, they still end up screwing it up such as the Burton Batman films. So I’m very excited someone is scanning a print of The Mask…in 4K.

blakninja said:

little-endian said:

MrQuiche said:

Definetly interested too, i’ll wait for some preview pictures too but i’d love seeing this movie in 4K. Thank you in advance 😃

No intention of spoiling this great project, but you won’t see it “in 4K” with this either, as the film print will be far from that resolution level. It’s already questionable whether 2K/HD will be reached, as it’s usually a copy of a copy of a copy (which reminds me of “Fight Club,” which could also benefit from a long-overdue UHD release, but I’m drifting …).

This won’t be a real 4K as we are not scanning from the original camera negatives. But we are scanning the 35mm print at the highest possible quality to ensure that we are capturing all of the details available on the film. Scanning at 2K would be borderline and we might miss some details, and scanning 8K would be overkill and we just get a bigger image with not necessarily more details.

It will definitely have more resolution (details) than HD (1080p), at least for the non SFX scenes.

On top of this, the grading should be closer to what you’d see in theatres (not that the Blu-ray grading was too much messed with) and we get to see it in open matte.

Actually this IS real 4K. 4K isn’t strictly “the camera negative”, you can do 4K scans for any film element. Boutique labels have done 4K scans of interpositives and best surviving elements (Vinegar Syndrome’s UHD of The Beastmaster comes to mind) and I wouldn’t say they are not worthy of being “4K”. With Warner Bros’ iffy track record towards their 4K restorations, I predict this scan/encode will exceed the eventual official UHD because major studios always screw with the picture.

Donated 😃

blakninja said:

Yes, we could add the two audio commentaries from the DVD/Bluray. I would assume the track from the Bluray is higher quality.

The director’s commentary with Chuck Russell was recorded for the laserdisc in 1996. The second commentary is an assortment of producers, VFX artists, and Russell recorded for the 10th Anniversary DVD in 2004. Both of them are carried over to the blu-ray, so you could rip them from that.

Also, for more audio options, perhaps the two audio commentaries from the DVD/Blu-ray?

I will ABSOLUTELY donate.

Does the new streaming print open with any logos, or does it cut straight to the opening credits?

MJBenito said:

little-endian said:

MJBenito said:

Project is ready guys.

In terms of you’re finding the time to start it or that you’ve already finished it?

Also, how about the inclusion of the CinemaDTS as I suggested?

Project is ready means project is released. Feel free to remux the CinemaDTS track as I don’t have it.

I have the cinema DTS ISO’s. Message me for a link.

Can I have a link too?

Thanks! Definitely interested in seeing this.

mr_merrick said:

Was this project ever finished?

Not sure if it was this scan, but I did spot a 35mm scan of BATB very briefly on Archive, but then it got removed shortly after.

imsorrydave2448 said:

BoingoBanshee said:

Hello! I’m very interested in the open matte scans of Re-Animator and Napoleon Dynamite. I can donate for any additional progress you’re working on.

digitalhexes said:

I’d love to put my eyes on this if at all possible, one of my favorites.

I pm’d you both

The person who did the upscale has the raw uncompressed file. Let me ask him for a link for you.

Hello! I’m very interested in the open matte scans of Re-Animator and Napoleon Dynamite. I can donate for any additional progress you’re working on.

And for anyone curious about the European Cut in its open matte UK DVD master, I’ve posted the original untouched file on Archive.

Any fans of Alex Winter’s Freaked here? Some fans might not know this, but in Europe, we got a slightly longer cut of the film released here (it was a direct-to-VHS release in 1995 in the UK, not even theatrical). It includes two scenes not seen on the US theatrical cut: the Freekz playing Wheel Of Fortune, and Ricky saying farewell to all the Freekz before he is forced to murder them by Skuggs. The latter in my opinion has some of the funniest lines in the entire film “Frogman…Perhaps death is the best thing for you now”, so it’s such a shame these scenes were cut out as they do have some good character work in them too fleshing out the relationship between the Freekz and Ricky’s arc in the story. These were included on the out of print Anchor Bay special edition DVD as extras but the quality is pretty mid.

However, here in the UK, Pathe (who inherited the distribution rights when they dissolved Guild Home Video) released Freaked on a bare bones 4:3 DVD. But don’t be fooled by the seemingly lacklustre release, not only is it an open matte print of the film, it is the longer European cut with those two scenes intact. The print looks surprisingly good for a DVD, and dare I say, the colours look more vibrant and superior to the oddly muted grading on the later Anchor Bay blu-ray. So I had an idea.

Thanks to Owen Davies, a wonderful Youtuber who creates AI upscales of TV shows and sometimes films that even I’m impressed by (his work on the Russell T Davies era of Doctor Who wipes the floor with what the BBC have attempted themselves with their upscaling), he upscaled the two scenes taken from my copy of the UK Pathe DVD to 4K and upscaled the theatrical cut taken from the US Anchor Bay blu-ray to 4K as well (with some minor additional colour correction by myself to have the blu-ray master match the superior colours of the UK DVD print). Then inserting the additional scenes back into the film (and cropping them in the original theatrical aspect ratio).

This reconstruction has been uploaded on YouTube for everyone’s enjoyment. Would love to hear your thoughts!

[Link Removed: See Rule 4.]

I’m all for more Mask projects! I’m so gutted i missed out on donating the 35mm print scan, but this looks great.