Bingowings

Perfect don't change a thing!

If Padme has to die in that time frame we could give her a more tragic death (rather than selfish one we see in ROTS).

Palpatine claimed that to have the secret of bringing people back to life (physical life as contrasted with the Jedi spiritual return in the form of a Force ghost).

What if Anakin literally died after the fire, which make Obi-Wan less of a git for leaving him to burst in flames.

Palpatine brings him back from the dead but to do that he pulls the life out of the person he loves most of all (besides himself) Padme.

It sounds like the sort of sick way the dark side would work, to bring someone back you have to kill someone they love.

In fact you could still adapt the idea into a longer death for Padme, the spell (for want of a better term) could work so the stronger Vader becomes the weaker Padme gets so if Vader's recovery is long her death could be drawn out too.

I was interested to find Ady had given the idea of two Death Stars in the battle some thought, the second being the bare bones one from ROTS.

I love that idea, it really does give viewers of a special edition a WTF moment with Luke finding himself somewhere he (and the viewer) didn't expect to be.

And being so incomplete it would be much more plausible to imagine it being destroyed by a huge capital ship like the Executor destroying it by ramming into the thing.

I don't think Liam was very good in TPM (not his fault really nobody seemed to be having a rewarding working experience exept Ian who really shone in his few scenes) compared to some of the other actors he might look good but in isolation he seemed bored and tired.

Some of the changes on doubleofseven's lovely list have been long longed for.

This post comes from The Legendary Starkiller Ranch Thread http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-legendary-Starkiller-Ranch-Thread/topic/3886/page/31/and dated March 31st 2006 almost matches a post I made some months back (perhaps we should send a team into that thread to see if there is anything we missed).

Mangrove said:I'm no expert at video editing or rotoscopping, but I figure you could probably cobble together enough material to construct a believable scene for the Emperor's arrival in the beginning of RotJ using shots from ESB and a bit of special effects.

I put together this little picture to show what I'm thinking:



Frame 1: RoTJ opening crawl pans down to...
Frame 2: ...flopped establishing shot of SSD & fleet from ESB
Frame 3: shot of SSD & fleet approaching Hoth with the DSII rotoscopped over the planet
Frame 4: another flopped ESB shot with a shuttle (taken from later in RotJ when Han & the gang are flying it) rotoscopped in
Frames 5&6: return to normal RotJ Emperor's arrival scene 

I keep expecting Lucas to attempt to animate the panels like these in the OT, when I heard that the DVDs had been altered beyond the 1997 versions it was the sort of thing I expected to see (I'm not sure if I'm disappointed or relieved).

If someone was to try it, it would be a lot of hard work and it could go very wrong if over done.

I'm assuming it's a repesentation of the situation in space (which might not change very quickly) perhaps adding a few slow moving elements could convey the Imperials getting into position and coming into range.

But it would be a major hassle during the shots of the set battle damaged, surely the screens would go blank after smashing?

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Bingowings said:

I like the general idea SSWR but I still think it's too much information.

We know from Leia in ROTJ she dies when she is very young, my earliest memories are from when I was about two but they are very vague so shifting it up to about three years later sort of makes sense.

If this was done as a time shifting montage her niece could be Leia (though we don't know that at the time) if she doesn't turn up in a reworked Episode II.

The explanation that Leia gives could act as a explanation of the scene we see in a reworked ROTS.

Thanks for the feedback, Bingo. Are you saying one of Padme's nieces (from AOTC deleted scene or ROTS funeral scene) could possibly be mis-interpreted (to our advantage) as Liea in the OT? So once ROTJ rolls around we finally find out about the Luke/Liea relationship? Hmmm...this is not something I've ever heard before.

I personally don't like the time shifting montage idea...not very Star Wars-y...plus (and I think we feel the same way on this) we don't won't to give away too much information...we don't want to spell everything out.

Did you really feel the dialouge I came up with spelled everything out too much? I figured we have to kill off Padme somehow...or make it obvious she's not gonna make it much longer. She's an important character after all...

...but then again the same could be said for Yoda...and I am definantly against having it spelled out to us that Yoda stays on Dagobah until ESB. My 2 cents.  :P

It wasn't very Star Wars to leap around time and space at the end of a film until 1997, the SE celebration scenes are exactly that only over a shorter time span.

Assassination, illness, depression, booze does it really matter?

If it's done in a quick time progression sweep at the end of ROTS do we need to know?

People die young for all manner of reasons.

Darth Venal said:

She said she remembers images, not events. Are you saying you can discern all your early feelings/images/memories and tell me exactly which are your own and which have come from what you have learned about when you were young?

I don't think it's a big deal either way, and it doesn't smack me as any great error.

I can clearly remember at the age of two my mother getting the letter saying I would be going to nursery school and that memory is a combination of images and feelings of myself being there, not someone telling me what happened.

I can't remember the doctors having to turn me because I tried to come out shoulder first or that my first noise was laughter (those are things I have been told happened but I can't actually remember happening).

It's a great error and it needs fixing (well at least from my point of view) but I'd fix it in the PT not in the OT if possible.

Darth Venal said:

As for Leia, why does there need to be an explanation? No-one else knew she existed, so no-one would be looking for her. As for her recollection of her mother, Leia was more than adequately vague in Jedi about what she remembers. She does actually say she doesn't really have memories, more "feelings". And that, for me, is perfectly fine. After all, it's obvious Bail Organa and her adopted mother didn't tell Leia the truth about her real parents, otherwise she'd already know. Therefore, they probably told her a sweet story about her mother dying when she was very young and they raised her as their own.

It's really not that difficult, and as much as I don't like the prequels, I don't believe there is any continuity error with Leia's "remembrance" of her mother.

That I do not buy.

Leia clearly states that her mother died when she was very young and remembers images as well as feelings.

Newborn babies don't remember those sort of details they don't have the necessary internal mechansism and if anyone starts splurting nonsense about her latent Force abilities or her talking about her step mother I shall get Paddington Bear on them and give them a hard stare through this screen.

It was yet another fluck up on Lucas' part, pure and simple.

Neither ROTJ or ROTS are perfect films, they both have the faults and their undeniable charms but at the end of the day I have more of an investment in Carrie Fisher's performance than Nat Portman's (she took some very stupid lines and made them sparkle through force of personality even in Jedi) so I would rather try and fix this in the PT than in the OT but it does need fixing.

When I first saw a picture of the second Death Star I thought it was the wreck of the first (I'd somehow completely forgot it had been blown to glitter in the first film).

The problem with this idea is it doesn't look sufficiently broken enough to be described as destroyed.

It is (it would take a lot more than a few dollops of Superglue to repair it) but it doesn't look smashed enough.

There is no way you can stretch suspension of belief that far, not even for Star Wars.

If it takes a certain amount of time for a heat shielded engine propelled lump of metal to get into the centre of the station, an unshielded, unpropelled (other than gravity) lump of meat has to take at least as long, at least (that's stretching belief to fantastic degrees as it is, any further and you lose the audience in a  Midi-chlorian sense).

Even the most fantastical tale has to follow it's own internal logic.

Sure you don't have to have someone pop up and explain that on screen but when repairing things like matte paintings that are utter nonsense you have to bear it in mind.

Maybe another way around Leia's images of her mother is by giving her a holographic locket, she could give it to Luke on Endor and it might even fall to the ground when Palpatine is zapping Luke (like I suggested with Padme's neckless earlier) :

The new shot looks like a large vehicle in the distance (therefore not in sharp focus) coming over a dune towards the camera.

The old shot looks like a small cardboard cutout being pulled along the plane of a fuzzy dune shape and giving out the odd flash of light.

As a change in a special edition of this film it makes sense.

This isn't an exclusively Adywan thread cap and seeing as he is still some way from finishing ESB:R we don't really know for sure what he will do.

If you click on the suggestions list at the bottom of doubleofive's post you will see some of the suggestions that have been ruled out and others that are definately under consideration.

As to the others only time will tell though hopefully somebody will have a go at most of them.

Yep.

"and what of reports of the Rebel Fleet massing near Sullust?"

It might make sense to see this place....?

Ady did say he was removing Threepio from the all but the last of the prequels, so in those versions at least it shan't be as much of a problem.

AngelBlue, I don't care what is written in books like that, it just doesn't make sense for all the reasons that have been discussed before.

In some sense every point on the station some way or another leads the reactor core but Palpatine doesn't and can not die there unless he had some kind of super fast rocket pack and a powerful heat shield hidden under that cape of his, which he decided to activate when he realised he was already doomed to explode near the bottom of the tower (that said it is only marginally more silly than having the death pit there in the first place).

I'm working on a new mockup as we speak to try and correct some of the problems with the old matte but keep the basic idea of a chasm by the side of the lift shaft (but I'd still like to see something a bit more knockout instead).

Sure, the best way would be to build models and film them but my mockup was pulled from the DVD, using the HD broadcast may yield better results without the need to film new footage.

There is nothing in terms of story getting in the way.

My favorate solution is to have Padme's ship dock with the Tantive, have the ship land, Padme go into labour on the ship, Yoda to step out on the surface (possibly being greeted by a non-speaking Qui-Gon ghost) and the Tantive leaves him there.

Dave's video mockup has a slightly different take with the Tantive landing, waiting for Padme's ship which also lands.

I'm keen to trim as many landing sequences as possible, it became almost a sickness in the PT. 

Count Qui-Gon wouldn't have a red sabre if he wasn't a Sith Lord, mute point anyways seeing as there is no way of replacing Christopher Lee with Liam Neeson.

The nearest I think we can get around this is by adding Dooku to TPM and having his formation of the Seperatist movement a reaction to the sort of narrow thinking that could get Qui-Gon killed and allow a Sith Lord to take over the government.

George is so determined to paint the Jedi as being dumb he actually goes to great pains to show that even a child could figure out the mystery and the Jedi can't.

That really needs a rethink.

I agree Obi-Wan space detective is even more cool than Captain Zep but it hinges on Obi-Wan doing his job properly.

He uncovers not just a mystery but a interconnected web of conspiracy but in the current versions not only does he and the Jedi do nothing about it they actually fall in and wrap themselves into the web in a very stupid way.

I think the instincts of some of the postees here are right.

It really does seem to me that Dooku was meant to be Qui-Gon (who was never a Sith Lord) and the Jedi were meant to be fooled into picking the wrong side in a war and Lucas had to wiggle his way around Neeson not wanting to work with Lucas after TPM.

I suggested spinning chamber walls, sticking something like that around the reactor would add an extra layer of peril to the approach and escape from the chamber.

Another point of reference could be the warp generator in Event Horizon.

"So this is how freedom dies: to the smell of burnt knicker elastic"