Bingowings

I love Psycho II, next to ESB it's possibly my favorite sequel (Psycho III is ok but it's more like the Psycho II most of us would have expected, it doesn't take as many chances, though it has some nice touches from Perkins infront and behind the camera).

The breather would be the Emperor scene.

We have focused so long on the good guys in peril that the bad guys walking around having a chat serves as the chapter turner.

If the Fett dropping the plans off bits could be made they would also act as Act bridges but the film need to have a punchy middle section.

There are plenty of slow passages on Endor and in the Death Star before the big finale.

As I said without an actor actually playing a role, why bother?

If we could find a amateur actor who looked right and we could write some story advancing dialogue and actions which could seemlessly be dropped into the footage, Tarkin in ROTS would make sense (in fact he is such a major player in ANH you'd have thought he'd been in all of them instead of weird alien guy no1 or spooky alien lady no2).

Unless he's actually doing something it would be better to lose him.

It may be impossible to add small sails to the current skiffs but there's nothing but hard work stopping us from adding more skiffs with small sails.

For those seeking a shadowy first view of Luke maybe we could have one final trial on Dagobah before going inside the mudhut for one last goodbye to his master.

If it was done in silhouette it could hide the lack of new Mark Hamill footage.

A dark robed figure picked out in the swamp mists, effortlessly moving rocks, a tree or even his ship would show how far he has come.

cap said:

Monroville said:

Vader would be smart enough to know that eventually Luke would go to save his friend Han from Jabba, and being that Luke came from Tatooine to begin with, it would be no different than cops staking out a criminal's parents or girlfriend's home.

Vader is under explicit instructions from the Emperor not to go after Luke, but to wait for Luke to come to him.

Vader doesn't explicitly receive those instructions until the Emperor arrives at the Death Star II, which happens later in the film.

Rhikter said:

Bingowings said:

Also, do you think it would work to put the Luke on Dagobah scenes at the beginning of the movie.  It would make the whole Luke a master Jedi thing more believable.

I must respectfully disagree.

Come RotJ, the last time we saw Luke, he was licking his wounds, so to speak, on the medical frigate at the end of ESB.  By starving the audience of Luke's appearance for so long in the begging of the movie and teasing them with dialogue about him spoken by other characters, you build anticipation.  People will be wondering, "Oh, man where's Luke?  I wanna see Luke?  Why isn't Luke here?" It makes the sudden appearance of this wiser, stronger, more mature Luke Skywalker/Jedi Knight - who is nothing like the beaten and bruised teen from the end of ESB - all the more powerful.

Those aren't my words, Ghost was asking that question.

The hologram message blows that anyway and the results of keeping the shadowy first physical appearence (which is admittedly cool) is that Yoda's death and Luke's training become laughably stupid. Besides it is just an temporary thing, he goes from hooded powerful Jedi to struggling hero again at the push of a trapdoor button and doesn't return there for pretty much the rest of the movie.

Other than being a rage fueled nearly Sith when he's beating up dad (see Obi-Wan in TPM), the next nearest Luke gets to being like old Ben is when he is telling his friends to hand over their weapons to a bunch of hungry bear people intent on having a barbecue.

Luke should be a Jedi Knight but he still has a long way to go before he can call himself a Jedi Master.

The real hanging storyline from ESB isn't what's Luke doing but what's going to happen to Han.

At the end of ESB we know Luke got away and is planning to rescue Han and it makes sense after having Yoda's teachings about patience underlined to him in the strongest way with his pointless attempt to rescue his friends, the logical first step is not to have him rush into rescuing Han but to have him rescue Han as a fully trained Jedi Knight.

There's the snag, we don't have much to play with there, in the film as it is we don't see the crew of the Falcon, we just hear them.

You could play up the familarity of the situation by moving Threepio's "Here we go again" there (but set it inside the Falcon being shot at) and let the models do the rest.

It would underline how relentless Vader is up until that point.

It may be possible to replace Nien Numb for Chewie for a few seconds of the Falcon cockpit and maybe a Star Destroyer bridge shot.

The sequence needn't be very long, just enough to remind us that the situation for Luke hasn't changed much in terms of his relationship with his father.

A wee challenge for the video mockup gang perhaps?

Variety could be added by throwing in fighters (something we didn't see first time around) it's different in the sense that (in the immortal words of the Hollywood trailers) this time it's personal.

It's an extension of the quest of Vader to find Luke we saw in ESB (something he is forced to call off when the Emperor turns up).

Vader must know Luke will eventually turn up to rescue Han and as with ESB he would want his friends too for leverage.

The only person who could stop Vader from continuing on that course would be his boss and it would be nice to see Luke shoot something in his X-Wing one last time.

The Empire is really Act II so Vader's arrival just tells us that once Luke has sorted one mess, there is still a bigger mess to worry about.

I fancied ending Act I with Luke and the Falcon having to dodge Star Destroyers that Vader has placed waiting for Luke to rescue Han.

It would remind us that the Empire is the bigger fish and that their reach is a bit further than just around the forest moon.

The problem with using the AOTC's footage is Threepio is so mucky that a simple re-colour may not be enough (we could give it a try).

That illustration was a place holder for Threepio explaining that Leia has lost patience waiting for Luke and has prematurely started her side of the rescue (which would chime with the latest family revelation that Ben has to give Luke).

She has no patience...she is a Skywalker...she puts her emotional attachment to Han before her head.

For that a bit of audio trawling is needed to create the dialogue.

Luke is easy, "Leia?", "No!".

Threepio needs to say something like "Master Luke...The Princess, I tried to stop her" (nothing too complicated).

That way everyone getting captured isn't part of Luke's plan, sending the Trojan Horse in Artoo is a rescue plan to the rescue plan.

It also set up the dispair he is feeling before Ben turns up (not just because Yoda is dead but because Leia has mucked up his plans).

I would swap the entrances into Jabba's court around so that Boussh arrives to a calm palace (he's a bounty hunter with a claim to make, he doesn't have to fight his way in).

When the droids turn up it's in the middle of a party (he has cause to celebrate) ending in Oola taking a tumble (it would mean adding slave Leia in but Oola's death would serve as a nasty warning for Jabba's new playmate though I can't figure out how to stop Leia from doing her "It's a trap!" shtick, maybe she's just away having her metal bra fitted).

Ghost said:

Good points.

 

Also, do you think it would work to put the Luke on Dagobah scenes at the beginning of the movie.  It would make the whole Luke a master Jedi thing more believable.

 

Then after that show him flying to Jabba's.  That would be a pretty CG scene.

That's what a lot of us want, it makes Yoda's death scene less stupid too (he's held on to life long enough to finish teaching Luke rather dying in the middle of a conversation after giving him a very quick crash course).

It also starts the film on a double down note that only picks up when our heroes rescue Han.

Yoda dies, The Emperor has a new Death Star, Chewie is captured, Han is still captured, Leia is captured, the droids are captured , Luke is captured (suddenly ROTJ starts to feel like ESB).

We get one hurrah and then act II kicks in and it starts all over again.

I direct you, if you haven't been there yet to doubleofive's lovely list of all our hopes (it contains links to SSWR's Fan-O-Matics which are pretty much along the lines you mention and lots of nice brain and eye candy) :

http://doubleofive.wordpress.com/rotj-fanedit-wishlist/

But why would Palpatine master of the dark side of the Force bother to do that when explaining his fiendish plot to Luke, a Jedi Knight?

It would turn Palpatine into a prune faced evil version of Doc Brown (or Ric Olie).

Angel did a mockup of holograms showing the space battle but the only people monitoring the ground battle would be the Imperials.

Perhaps something like that could be in Jerjerrod's control room (he hasn't got some mystical energy field to keep him up to spec and the energy shield is important to keeping his sphere of influence turning).

If he is to destroy Endor should the shield fall he might monitor the ground battle but really all he needs is a red light saying "Shield down blow up moon", just as Ackbar had one saying, "Shield down blow up Death Star."

DarkJedi3P0 said:

hey I've got an idea!!

 

(though some may disagree)


When Leia goes outside to Luke to ask whats wrong and Luke asks Leia about her mother, altering the music to "Across the Stars" soft version from Attack of the Clones would fit nearly perfectly :D to symbolize Padme's theme,

Although, its understandable not to do this as Leia may not have been referring to Padme, and rather her adoptive mother (who allegedly may have died sometime after ROTS)

 

 

Maybe be a small fragment could be mixed into the Luke/Leia theme, (a sadly underused theme) i think there is a very quiet movement in one of the variations which has a very similar tempo to the Luke/Leia theme?

Music Droid Noo'eitchya?

As I said over on the other thread they should have cast an actor to play the role (not that Wayne isn't an actor, he was amazing in Farscape but he wasn't playing a role he was just wandering around in an unrealistic mask in the background).

I don't mind him looking a bit older than Peter would have done back then but they should have written a role for him to play or left him out altogether.

If anything it was a worse fan dis-service than Fett in anything other than ESB.

Peter was one of the things that made ANH work and to reduce Tarkin to someone dawdling around that doesn't even look like him was a sick joke.

Bill Nighy as Admiral Tarkin leading the Republican fleet during the Battle Of Coruscant would have been great. 

That's possibly even too ambitious an idea for me play with.

He said at the time that it was deliberate decision so I assume that Neeson's reluctance to return complicated his grand plan, just as DiCaprio's reluctance to join on did. 

Assuming there was a grand plan.

I find it hard to believe that Jar-Jar wasn't going to play a greater role in the series until his near universal unpopularity forced Lucas to ditch him.

There are so many circles to square in the PT but that's part of the fun, there's the challenge.

If Jar-Jar could be made to work with re-dubbing it might be worth replacing Threepio with the new improved version.

In some ways spreading Jar-Jar about may be more radical than taking him out.

Skydrive does much the same thing, it mucks up the contrast too (which sort of gives it the full set).

I've noticed that if I try to search within a topic I get instead a search of the entire forum.

I've tested this a number of times to make sure I've not clicked on the wrong option by mistake but it still is the case.

Is anyone else having the same problem?

Me said : ...other people were tested in better makeup, here is Christopher Eccleston (yes, that Christopher Eccleston):

Uncanny as that looks (and why they didn't go with it is beyond me) they could have saved the effort by casting the greatest Doctor Who we've never had, Bill Nighy.

Not only would he not need the make-up, I'm sure he could do the voice as well.

The current Doctor is starting to look rather Cushingish.

Lets do the PT again but do it right this time aye?

Differences between the various versions of ANH-R are also listed on the visual comparison (for example the Cantina hands/flipper) :

It would also be fun if when Luke catches his lightsaber it crossed the path of one of the suns duplicating the effect of a lot of the iconic poster images.

I wish we could have a second smaller sail barge like this one in Ralph's original designs, it would be great for having more pirate movie style fun (not to mention Sarlacc tentacle action) :

Looking t the footage it's pretty much obvious where it would have fitted.

I was personally amazed how much I enjoyed both the film and the series (especially after all the reviews which I think smack at knee jerk revenge for the relative poor quality of the PT films). I found that the series sat better with the OT than the PT movies did most of the time and it was generally better written and directed.

A lot of the critical assessment was valid in it's direction but not in it intensity and it might have been a mistake to give the opening a theatrical release because the critical to the theatrical release of a television pilot might have put people off the show.

I would love to see these deleted scenes put back in, they only seemed to be trimmed for time and there were other scenes that could have gone that were a lot less fun and added as much information to the story (as in not that much).

shanerjedi said:

Oh God. Someone please fix that Falcon matte behind Han and Lando. Maybe add a dude into the painting behind the Falcon to blend the "Hey, I'm an actor walking in front of a bluescreen" look. Maybe have him working on that B-Wing cockpit in the background? I really dislike it when Lando starts walking toward it.

 I think Ady said he was going to replace those mattes with model shots (like the similar one in the ESB Hoth hanger).

The list just get's better and better keep up the good work doubleofive!

Luke's facial expression is a reaction shot to the fully revealed creature, it's a really nice piece of non verbal acting on Mark's part. He is channeling Sir Alec. You can almost hear him thinking "mmm...that's a bit nasty, oh well all the days work of a Jedi...maybe I should have dropped Ben off at Anchorhead" anyone else would have gone OTT, it almost sells the current footage. To get the maximum effect from Luke's reaction the creature need to be a bit more of a monster so when we look down we gasp at how hideous it is and Luke does his "here we go again" look.

A lot could be done with just sound, the rumblings of some vast creature bursting up from the depths.

When the skiff gets hit it could knock it closer to the Sarlacc so it can pull people off the deck with it's tentacles Jules Verne style.

It would also be fun to have the bad guys swing over on ropes (especially if King Of The Rocket Men is busy elsewhere) it would add to that swashbuckling feel and set up what Luke and Leia do later.

If the sail barge destruction was more like Dave's video mockup. the creature could pull people out of the Sail Barge too as it collapses, and then duck back into the hole to survive the explosion.

Slightly changing the subject, the Weequay that Luke defenestrates sounds too human and it's almost like he has stubbed his toe rather than he is plunging to he death.

There were plenty of alien falling noises made for Jedi Outcast which would work better.

One possible solution is to pretty much remove the Sarlacc entirely in either of it's current forms.

When we see it it's either in isolation or framed in by sets.

Once in a while there is a live action element that crosses the field of the Sarlacc in either it's physical set or CGI forms but they could be isolated for later use.

A redesigned physical model could be built and dropped into the space, it needn't be life sized, the Sarlacc isn't as huge as the sand worms in Dune so scaling down the sand isn't as much of an issue as it was for that movie. Though the bigger the model the better the effect (I'm not trying to underplay how difficult this would be, designing a model and building it, matching the lighting and reintegrating the live action elements would be a massive undertaking).

So like much of what is being proposed here it's not so much impossible but difficult.

For me part of the problem is the written ambition of the script doesn't match the resources available on the location and that's something that can only be augmented with CGI in a limited way.

Stuck with the footage as it was originally framed I think the beak and extra tentacles was as much as they could do back in 1997 (they couldn't move the creature so they added parts to it and animated those).

Threepio in the script describes Carkoon as a pit and the nesting place of the Sarlacc but the location is more of a dent in the sand.

Ideally the pit should be more rocky (so sand doesn't fall in it as much) and when the barge first turns up it would be great if the Sarlacc wasn't there and was enticed to the surface by the sound of the party arriving.

It would be visually much more interesting to see a giant Lovecraftian sand/sea monster heaving it's way up a stony pit than just having a sand crater with a sexually worrying mouth already hanging open in it.

Star Wars is always at it's best when it takes the visual language of one cinematic genre and turns it on it's side.

The sequence was meant to evoke images from maritime adventures (pirate ships, sea monsters, walking the plank etc) but it's a little too conservative with it's references so it would help to revisit some of those films and see what works and try and figure out what can be put into the existing footage in a convincing way.

Angel's mockups show the potential of shifting the live action elements around to compose much more interesting shots.

As with so much in ROTJ the problem isn't so much the story but the presentation not doing the story justice.

I love the Nikto guard mockup up above Angel, finally a Dune Sea that looks like a sea of dunes.