As usual, Frank is a true fountain of knowledge (I do mean that honestly, not sarcastically).
Current AI software won’t be able to do that, but there certainly will come a point when it will.
Hi, I really love what you’re doing. I’d love a hd version of both these star trek series.
I’d like to contribute but I don’t have a decent enough computer. I only have a i5 gtx960 and a tiny SSD for gaming.
I have contributed financially to some other projects though and would be happy to add something into the pot if needed. I’d also be happy to help out in some other ways if I am able 😃
Nice of you to offer, but I started this as a personal project for free, which it will always be. So no money offers are necessary. However I am always open to tips and ideas on how to improve things.
As for the actual episodes, I will PM you with the links soon.
And in case any of you aren’t in my release topic yet, I have an updated version of the pilot, please PM me in case I have forgotten to invite you or if you have joined later on; you will then get regular updates as soon as I have finished more episodes.
Hey guys, I have just updated my workflow at the beginning of this topic, but just to be sure, here is the link for it again:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12E8hLHJYm58CkKPnCvhXBIUbvpZ8vbHs/view?usp=sharing
Stargate SG-1 is already completely in HD, just not released for whatever reason on blu ray. Wouldn’t be worth it to work on that show.
Perhaps, but I had the “pleasure” to watch some of that HD-Versions, while seasons 8-10 are in what I would call “decent HD”, seasons 1-7 have been done by SyFy, and they are really soft and show signs of aliasing, therefore I think perhaps going from the DVDs would be better.
Anyway, I am not going to work on it today or tomorrow, perhaps something will change until I get around to it.
As you said, seasons 1-7 are just upscaled from SD sources for Syfy, and not well at that. Seasons 1-3 were filmed in 16mm and 4-7 in 35mm, the difference between the two sticks out even more with that release. The entire run needs a TNG-R-style remaster to be properly in HD.
Agreed, but I don’t think we’ll get that one either. That’s why I have planned my projects according to those series which I believe to be worthy of a remaster, but unfortunately won’t get them. Of course my projects are also limited to those source materials I already own, not to mention the series I personally like.
By the way: I have thought about two other SciFi shows that were unfortunately “overlooked/underestimated” in their time and through re-runs or recordings have still managed to develop a devoted fan-base.
- Earth : Final Conflict
- Stargate SG-1
Since I do own the PAL and NTSC Discs of Final Conflict and the PAL of SG-1, I would do those after I am through with DS9 and Voyager. Funny how I am planning away probably years of my life, but I think it could be worth it.
But since SG-1 was available from Seasons 8-10 (as were the movies) in HD, I would only do Seasons 1-7.
I hope that would be something you guys might be interested in as well.
But for now, back to Trek.
Stargate SG-1 is already completely in HD, just not released for whatever reason on blu ray. Wouldn’t be worth it to work on that show.
Perhaps, but I had the “pleasure” to watch some of that HD-Versions, while seasons 8-10 are in what I would call “decent HD”, seasons 1-7 have been done by SyFy, and they are really soft and show signs of aliasing, therefore I think perhaps going from the DVDs would be better.
Anyway, I am not going to work on it today or tomorrow, perhaps something will change until I get around to it.
I will as soon as I get around to it, ok? Right now it’s all on paper, notes and scribblings I have taken on the run. I will have to scramble up all the stuff and get it in order.
Thank you. I will probably stay with my “latest” derainbowing method, it may not catch everything, but it reduces it at least.
Also: Several members have pointed out little flaws in my versions so far, so I will be reworking the episodes I have already done (check the release topic for updates). Right now those changes include: Reducing the framerate of the episodes from 25 FPS to 23,976 FPS - there are two reasons for that:
Since it causes no motion stutter, that improves the workflow.
Furthermore, I added several derainbowing and deringing/dehaloing options to reduce these issues further; I was also careful to adjust with contrasharpening, so no detail gets lost.
As for my work so far: The pilot will be done over the weekend, then the other episodes so far will be updated. Afterwards work on the release will continue as planned.
I would like to mention that I really owe thanks to several members (most notably FrankB & Baobab Archiver), they have picked up those “little problems” and therefore helped make the release better, before it would have went on and by pointing that out saved me long work hours on re-releasing episodes - thank you guys.
Anyone know of a good derainbowing method that can be used with StaxRip? I thought I found one, but it didn’t work out.
Not to derail the thread but i wasn’t aware there was a good source for Babylon 5. The DVD is fake widescreen and you cannot find the original 4:3 ratio version on DVD.
And with frame blending due to the special effects you cannot restore 24 fps.
As for SG1 i hope you use the uncut pilot film and not the censored directors cut version.
What did you meant by ‘fake widescreen’?
B5 was filmed in anamorphic widescreen to allow future proofing on 16/9 tv. There is, as far as i know, no original 4:3. Watch B5 on TV only and not your computer monitor as the technology is different. The monitor will show B5 in ‘squishing effect.’
Skywalker probably meant that the live-action scenes were filmed in 16:9, but the cgi/vfx were done in 4:3 to save production costs, so when you watch the DVDs the computer generated scenes (space scene, composite shots) were cropped and zoomed in, which caused blurriness and artefacts.
As for my own approach (once I get around to it): I changed my opinion on the VUDU-version. I compared them and in my opinion to much information is lost left/right since the live action has been cropped in the 4:3 version (there is a scene in the episode “Midnight on the Firing Line”, where the B5-guards next to G’Kar almost completely disappear, which does not happen with the DVD-version). Since the cgi/vfx only makes up for about 15-20% of the actual episodes, I’d rather see more from the live action shots; also, my filtering setup would take care of artefacts. As for having a little less space to look at top/bottom of the screem and sometimes ships being zoomed in, I think I could live with that (but that’s a matter of personal taste, I guess).
I know, unfortunately I only own the PAL DVDs of Babylon 5, which have the dreadful 16:9.
EDIT:
Thankfully, I have a lot of SciFi Fans around me (or at least they know others). A friend of mine just said he could provide me with 480p captures of the original 4:3 vudu. I will pm you on this further.
Thank you for joining in. No problem, everyone also has a life to get back to at some point 😃
Since I will be working on DS9 and Voyager first, I would contact you once I get around to SG-1.
Also, I am planning to work on Babylon 5 (later on).
I just asked a couple of DS9-fans over on reddit if they would also be interested in the episodes.
Perhaps that way, I can make more fans happy. Let’s see how that goes.
But I think that will be the extent of it. I got several questions on possibly doing this as a torrent release, but you know how I think about that.
Yeah, the holodeck scene is a tricky one. Not much to work with from the start.
Also, I noticed an imperfection in my audio track conversion: DS9s intro music suffers from fluctuations, possibly due to the time/pitch adjustments. Since it only effects the intro, I would leave it at that, I can’t really hear anything during the episodes.
By the way, I got a technical questions for which I haven’t found a solution so far: Is it possible to invite someone to a private topic when that has already been created? Like add them later on?
Joel is spot on here. I did a test clip from the season 5 finale some time ago, it was a huge difference to early episodes.
Even when just watching the DVDs: Somehow from season 4 onwards the blur is noticeably less present, so are luma and chroma issues.
And I understand your opinion on piracy. That’s why I decided not to talk about my work openly and only share it around here in a “limited” capacity, not on public torrenting sites.
Another little note here: My old device had a mode (unfortunately I can’t remember the exact name, let’s just call it “Pure SD-Resolution”) which played files in their natural ratio/size, only going to a max of 1080p, which - funny as it sounds - looked better than the 4K upscale my present device does. So the only way around that is to use a separate player, that can play back the older files in original resolution, since the TV always upscales (which is as I have said fine for everything else, just not the older shows).
So the technical evolution of playback devices may “force” fans to take action in order to keep enjoying their shows because they look worse through enhancements they can’t change manually on the devices themselves.
This certainly has to do with bad deinterlacing… You are right: Especially NTSC-DVDs can be watched best, when you set HDMI to 576i. That may be the mode your player used.
I just looked into the upscaled pilot. Well, I don’t want to be negative, but it’s not for me. And I still think, there is not REALLY much done about new details. Everything Topaz did, seem to me to be also possible with slight sharpenings (if you know how) and simple resizing.
But: This can be the future, and everything new needs pioneers who just do it, become better and better, inspire even better techniques, a. s. o.
Maybe it’s also about youth and age. I watched my first Star Trek episodes in Germany in 1972, so I think I can also wait a few years longer to see something really revolutionary.
But keep on to move forward, where no man has gone before!
I can sympathize with you on many points. My mother was the one who first introduced me to Star Trek (she watched the original series when it aired back around the same time, I grew up with VHS tapes and original effects and still watch those today). And I continued the tradition with doing tv recordings when TNG, DS9 and VOY aired (from kid to teenager in my case) and later went on to collect the first DVDs.
And so it went on and on.
I admit, this is a project I mainly do for myself, since I think even a little improvement is good. And when others like to have these files, I am happy to share, since not everyone can do this work him-/herself.
Also, I am just a beginner and couldn’t hope to compete with you or Joel, but I am content to learn from you guys.
And as you have said: I will continue going forward with this until something better comes along.
(And while we are on the subject of paying homage to the original work, I still own the DVDs and have them as digital backups, my version will just supplement them in case I want to watch or “show off” 😃 )
@ Everyone: I really recommend reading Joels articles over on extremetech - they are really well done!
@ Joel:
I immensely enjoyed what you have said in your latest outing about fans.
While it is true that copyright is a serious matter, fans are not doing this in order to hurt the studios or companies, quite the opposite actually - as you have stated, many want to show ways to inspire companies to do their work differently to make the process perhaps more affordable.
Also, sometimes fans (like me) are also doing it out of a certain “necessity”. And while the following example is not meant to be some sort of apology or defense to use grey areas (in a copyright sense), it may add another dimension to the topic of fan remastering/upscaling:
TVs, screens, projectors, laser tv … everything continues to evolve, generally in the directions “larger, more detailed, ai-enhancing”.
And while those developments are great for modern content (or generally for content with a certain quality level), they can turn out to be horrific for older sources.
In my case: I love some of the old 80’s and 90’s classics, many of them have only been released on DVD (like DS9 and Voyager). So when I got a really high end TV for my birthday last year I was so happy, because the quality was (and still is) amazing, but naturally they only present those devices against “newer stuff”, which of course looks brilliant.
But when you play something that has some dust on it, the magic is all but gone. Now I don’t want to say that the original DVDs can’t be watched, but especially early seasons (like DS9s first) look bad on a 55` UHD (even with tweaked settings there is only so much the device can do).
So if you are a fan, happen to have great tech on hand (like a good tv) you obviously would want to enjoy even your old shows in at least “decent” quality. This was one of the reasons I got started thinking about upscaling, since many modern devices are designed to go forward, not back.
So I do understand the urge to improve things yourself if you can.
Another little note here: My old device had a mode (unfortunately I can’t remember the exact name, let’s just call it “Pure SD-Resolution”) which played files in their natural ratio/size, only going to a max of 1080p, which - funny as it sounds - looked better than the 4K upscale my present device does. So the only way around that is to use a separate player, that can play back the older files in original resolution, since the TV always upscales (which is as I have said fine for everything else, just not the older shows).
So the technical evolution of playback devices may “force” fans to take action in order to keep enjoying their shows because they look worse through enhancements they can’t change manually on the devices themselves.
The 4K-link for the latest episode “Past Prologue” is now online over at the release topic!
@ Frank: Certainly I would want best quality. I will try on a short sample clip and see.
@Joel: Loved your latest article over on extremetech on fans getting impatient and doing there own upscaling. Did we inspire you’re latest journalistic endeavor a bit? 😃
Thanks for all your input. But I must ask: Does the 25 FPS bother you on my version? If so, I would consider doing the slowdown to 23,976 FPS, but I did watch my pilot-version and did not notice any decline in audio quality despite me doing modifications.
Also, I have bad news (at least for me) but good news (for you guys).
Let’s start with the bad for me: I really caught a nasty bug and I am lying around sick as a dog, which is just what you need when you have work piling up regarding your “real life job”. So for now I have taken 2 sick days, cause I really can’t do much physically speaking.
The good news for you: Since I can’t do much lying in bed but keyboard and mouse are in reach, I decided to spend more time on this project to get my mind of being down, so look over at the release topic, the next episode will hit within a few hours, putting up preview images now, uploading the 4K-version to google, which will take about two more hours. Size: About 5GB. Episode: 1x03 “Past Prologue”.
Have fun.
Animaxx said:
Strangely enough, the tv broadcasts and dvd versions are higher pitched around germany than the original vhs tapes, which had lower pitch.Interesting, I didn’t know that. That means:
By the time the series was brought to Germany it was often practised technique to convert from NTSC to PAL in a mix of blending and keeping the original interlacing, especially with such mix-content of pulldowned and native 29.97 material.
So they seem to have dubbed it in its original length. This is what is also on the VHS cassettes.
The newer masters for the DVDs were carefully IVTCed (and the 29.97 portions brought to 23.976 in I-don’t -know-what-way), and then sped up to 25fps. Then they sped up the sound without correcting the pitch to its lower original. So you are damned right when you pitch down - even better would have been to slow down to 23.976 and then simply resample the German dub down, pitch would be corrected automatically and everything fine!As for the speed down to 23,976 FPS: That would cause motion stutter again, which I was happy to have avoided with PAL at 25 FPS.
That’s an error. Slowing down does not at all cause any stutter, if you do it right - that means the very simplest way. Try it with avisynth with, as I said:
new=assumefps(old,24000,1001)
This will just change the SPEED, no t one frame will be added or dropped.I can confirm what FrankB has said here. In fact, I experimented with doing this.
You can slow a PAL broadcast from 25 to 23.976 fps and never notice that you’ve done it. Then you can pitch-shift the audio down by 4% or get yourself the NTSC discs. Either works. I tried stapling the NTSC audio to a PAL rip that I’d performed this on, and while I had to add a 1.2 second offset to the track, it worked perfectly for alignment once I did. No stuttering.
This is why I seriously considered using PAL instead of NTSC for my project.
It’s certainly an interesting idea. Any way to accomplish that with StaxRip? I have zero experience with avisynth.
By the way: I have thought about two other SciFi shows that were unfortunately “overlooked/underestimated” in their time and through re-runs or recordings have still managed to develop a devoted fan-base.
Since I do own the PAL and NTSC Discs of Final Conflict and the PAL of SG-1, I would do those after I am through with DS9 and Voyager. Funny how I am planning away probably years of my life, but I think it could be worth it.
But since SG-1 was available from Seasons 8-10 (as were the movies) in HD, I would only do Seasons 1-7.
I hope that would be something you guys might be interested in as well.
But for now, back to Trek.
Just started working on the second episode of DS9 “Past Prologue” - now that the workflow is set, templates are done, it’s really just dumping in the source files and let the software do the work. It’s really nice.
Perhaps I will have another episode for you guys by the weekend, since I do not have to do much manually any longer.
Thanks, I will look into it.
Hey guys, I also just finished the 1080p-version.